What is new in the store, armors?????

[Ayrolen]

Hmmm, wonder if there will be a win it before you buy it? It would answer some questions before it hit the store.....

Answer what questions?

Also, certainly won't be a lottery that I'd be participating in. I don't even want that gear for free.

[Ellyllon]

Ok, ok... (she says calmly, taking deep breaths...) They conveniently closed the General topic while leaving it on a guy who informs us that even First Age epics in the store won't impact us?

I really need to take some time to evaluate my own commitment to this game. For the books, they're mine forever. The movies are a wonder & a joy. I adore this game, but wow...

*breathe...*


*breathe...*

[Fipiara]

Answer what questions?

Also, certainly won't be a lottery that I'd be participating in. I don't even want that gear for free.

Min. required level among others.

Not saying that I'd want to enter/win. Just would be nice to definite/clear answers.

[Ardineck]

One more log for the fire: even if they DON'T sell well, it's not like it's a brick and mortar store where it will go to a clearance bin. These things can not only stay there at no loss (only possible gains), but they can keep trying until they find something that does work.

I truly have to believe that like us, some of the devs are having their arms twisted on this. As poorly a job some of them might actually do, there just can't be a way that the same people who have put out such tremendously great stuff for us and then "eff it up" so bad like this. I imagine a board meeting where several devs raise their voices loudly and complain boisterously when this direction was announced, some of them saying that what is happening here would happen (which it did) and that it is just a horrible idea. Meanwhile, Johnny and Suzy Suitwearer are standing in front of the group with "statistics and graphs from actual studies" because those make the world go round, giving those employees the evil eye, wink, smile that indicates "this decision has ALREADY been made chums, we are not asking you, we are TELLING you to implement this" right down to the press release handed to Sapience indicating his "excuse" is that the players asked for this. "What players?" he asks. Another look from corporate that indicates they don't care. It's almost as if the line is a nod to us to say "yep, screw corporate...this whole thing is BS so here's a BS answer".

I could be wrong and all of Turbine could be the devil, but I just have more faith in human beings (I know, give me a few more years and I'll learn that lesson).

This is so, so wrong. The reasons, the excuses, the idea, the future...and NOTHING can be done. We have to stick together, though. Maybe we're Sam and Frodo with a piece of jewelry heading to a volcano...or maybe we're Aragorn and company leading a group to the Black Gates knowing that this could be it. We have no choice but to play smarter, buy less, and wait it out until a new set of suits stabs the old ones in the back for their jobs.

[Ebyl]

Just to be fair, devs generally don't get to decide much on things like this. I certainly don't blame them, but the people who are actually making these decisions.

[JLG3247]

Just to be fair, devs generally don't get to decide much on things like this. I certainly don't blame them, but the people who are actually making these decisions.

That's basically - no exactly - what the poster above you said. It sounds reasonable. It has to have been in the works for a long time and it sounds exactly like what would happen. dangerous to imagine in such detail - like guessing what cards people have out loud, but you are right about the store thing. no space taken up that they are missing. the reason is baloney. they lied. they spent time and money working on something like the armor when they could have been spending time putting something into action like a revamp or heck, look at the suggestion forum and the kin thing.

it's gonna be swept under the rug come tuesday. all will be forgotten. listened to a podcast that brought up a point about a turbine rep saying something about a game that swore no guns would be in the game then they put them in and no one cared. At least we know where they stand. They think it's easier to not care about the players and take a chance on this than reach out to players and explain the situation. things must be pretty bad to just drop that promise that easily.

[GalateaOrea]

All I can say is that I would be more disinterested in armor in the store if I thought the game play was going in a good direction. But my personal opinion is that both Enedwaith and RoI are terminally boring. The crafting is sub-par, even for LOTRO, the adventuring is non-existent, and the leveling up is rote. End game is a boring gear grind. LIs are a boring grind. And none of it means anything because it will all need to be replaced with the next update and more grinds for more stuff without any sense of character advancement at all.

As I've said elsewhere, WB is using LOTRO to test their F2P theories and approach. They are going to push this as hard and fast as they can and see where it breaks. One needs to separate "Turbine", if it exists anymore, from WB. WB's agenda has taken over LOTRO, and that agenda is to tap into the billion-dollar gaming market for all it is worth. Don't kid yourself that this will stop here, it won't, especially if it is well received; that is, it sells in the store.

It doesn't matter what happens here on the forums; it only matters what happens in the store. Let's face it, the pre-WB LOTRO is gone. The game we are playing now is entirely different. This game is designed with one purpose in mind: sell in the Store. We knew that when they took a known game-mechanic, relic removal, and put a price on it. That scroll tells you everything you need to know about where this game is going.

You can bet your sweet bippy that we'll be seeing gear for higher levels, level up packages, and every other cruise control goody WB can think up or sees offered in other Pay-2-Win games. There's nothing to be done about it because this is the future of gaming. WB HAS to make money this way. Gaming is THE most profitable form of entertainment in the world. Nothing is keeping pace with the rate of revenue growth for the gaming industry. Of course they are going to do everything they can to maximize profits.

If this bothers you, now is the time to bail. It is not going to get any better. But I'd be less annoyed about this kind of thing if the game were going in an exciting direction in terms of game play, crafting, or housing. I have no objection to Free to Play, or even Pay to Win. But I'm not going to Pay to Win a boring game.

[Arachnella]

This is obviously about more than stat armour. For me, this is an unexpected tipping point, bringing me from 'faint unease but acceptance,' to opening up a fountain of doubt.

+1 and +Rep. That's exactly it.

Story immersion is Priority #1 for me, & I'd like to believe Turbine also shares that priority, rather than luring me in to buy something I used to be able to do as part of the game.

Looks like it's not story immersion anymore, it's Store immersion. (Sorry, couldn't resist a bad pun!)

[Ardineck]

All I can say is that I would be more disinterested in armor in the store if I thought the game play was going in a good direction. But my personal opinion is that both Enedwaith and RoI are terminally boring. The crafting is sub-par, even for LOTRO, the adventuring is non-existent, and the leveling up is rote. End game is a boring gear grind. LIs are a boring grind. And none of it means anything because it will all need to be replaced with the next update and more grinds for more stuff without any sense of character advancement at all.

As I've said elsewhere, WB is using LOTRO to test their F2P theories and approach. They are going to push this as hard and fast as they can and see where it breaks. One needs to separate "Turbine", if it exists anymore, from WB. WB's agenda has taken over LOTRO, and that agenda is to tap into the billion-dollar gaming market for all it is worth. Don't kid yourself that this will stop here, it won't, especially if it is well received; that is, it sells in the store.

It doesn't matter what happens here on the forums; it only matters what happens in the store. Let's face it, the pre-WB LOTRO is gone. The game we are playing now is entirely different. This game is designed with one purpose in mind: sell in the Store. We knew that when they took a known game-mechanic, relic removal, and put a price on it. That scroll tells you everything you need to know about where this game is going.

You can bet your sweet bippy that we'll be seeing gear for higher levels, level up packages, and every other cruise control goody WB can think up or sees offered in other Pay-2-Win games. There's nothing to be done about it because this is the future of gaming. WB HAS to make money this way. Gaming is THE most profitable form of entertainment in the world. Nothing is keeping pace with the rate of revenue growth for the gaming industry. Of course they are going to do everything they can to maximize profits.

If this bothers you, now is the time to bail. It is not going to get any better. But I'd be less annoyed about this kind of thing if the game were going in an exciting direction in terms of game play, crafting, or housing. I have no objection to Free to Play, or even Pay to Win. But I'm not going to Pay to Win a boring game.

I was trying to think of the think I thought of last night and this pretty much sums it up perfectly. LotRO has become a guinea pig. It is the test market. WB WILL run this game into the ground, because that's what corporations do - take over something small and successful, tinker with it to see what happens when you do what and if it runs it into the ground, all the better, because they'll learn what NOT to do with the things they REALLY care about. The suits do not respect us. They disdain us. They look down upon what we're doing. They will tinker with this because they can make some "easy cash" off a segment of the pop that has cash to spend. We're the target demo. Turbine's acquisition by WB really WAS the end of the game as we know it. People can say it's crazy-talk or whatever, but there are those of us that have the experience with this to see it for what it is. It's QUITE possible and probable that they don't even know what to do, because often, the people in charge are there because their mommies and daddies put them in a good school because their granddaddies went there...those are the folks that make the big bucks. Some kid invents a better mousetrap in his garage, builds it up, then sells it off to the old money (because in the end, the middle class wishes to be part of that old money - ah, the American dream) who totally and utterly dismantles the original dream, because what do they care about nostalgia or the consumers...they are out to make more money.

I wish I could give double rep to you GalateaOrea, one for the idea and one for reminding me about thinking about it. This is a big part of it right there. This will get worse and we all know it. It's only a matter of how long. They may see this thread and drag it out longer, just because the "scientists" don't want the "guinea pigs" to be aware of the experiment...that tarnishes the results. They'll wait until it dies down and we're distracted before adding more. This in itself may be a smoke-screen for the other stuff that's slipped in already.

[SabrielofLorien]

Well, here's another thought ...

Since the mystical group demand and feedback for L20ish armour is the purported reason for the lowbee armour addition to the store...

How about

The clamoring for raid gear and access to raid quality weapons that's been going on for (like) ever? Surely more people have asked for raid equivalent gear without having to do the raiding part. Soloers, small groupers have been asking since The Beginning for access to this gear.

Now if you consider the difference in what people would pay to have access to Instant Raid Gear/Weapons versus just a lowbee L20ish bleh armour set... well... I can just imagine the avalanche of cash that would drown Turbine's CC/Web service.

Even if the RaidReadyToWear might not be quite as good (or perhaps better?) than that old crummy ingame gear - I cannot imagine for a moment that the High Level Raiding Kins that I know about would not be dropping dollars in the Vile Maw of Turbine/WB faster than a Hobbit can eat pie.

As I've already personally experienced the "advice" of one such group to: buy scrolls/relics/stat tombs/buffs etc etc if I wanted to run with them, I don't think there would be any hesitation to dropping dollars into Prêt-à-porterRaiderGears.

So, why should they not "help" us poor RaiderWantaBes and let us buy the stuff?

I think this will be the next step because THIS makes sense and money. L20 gear? nope no sense at all.

[Fipiara]

It doesn't matter what happens here on the forums; it only matters what happens in the store. Let's face it, the pre-WB LOTRO is gone. The game we are playing now is entirely different. This game is designed with one purpose in mind: sell in the Store. We knew that when they took a known game-mechanic, relic removal, and put a price on it. That scroll tells you everything you need to know about where this game is going.

That's the nature of the beast with Micro Transactions & a store. Whatever the viewpoint that's just how it is whether good/bad/indifferent, it's part of the job responsibilities of a Manager in eCommerce:

* Collaborate with key personnel to develop optimizations and monetizable systems that will allow the team to meet or exceed revenue and performance goals.

It's not really a secret by any means, but it can take a major adjustment to the viewpoint of the player. Any system will be monetized whether crafting, tasks, leveling, LIs, PvMP, etc. Though I have to say, I'm still trying to figure out where the store fits in with Instance Finder or where it will fit in. Currently, right now the less you buy, the more control you have over which instances/skirmishes you will be placed in.

[kisarazu]

Interesting thoughts so far although I admit I did not read them all ha ha. Armors in the store makes me cringe a little, but no more than stat tomes honestly.

I did start playing LOTRO in 2007 and have played for some years in there. Coming from an EVE player this community here is certainly different. EVE might be more hostile (ha) but they are unified. I have some questions: Where or who are the voices of LOTRO's player base? I mean do we have a voted group of players that serve as our voice to the devs? Forgive me for not looking this up (yes the audacity of it). It would be nice to have representation (F2P, P2P, RP, and PVMP) in that regard. Posting our thoughts in directed forum rooms is nice and all, but I wonder if there might be a better way to have our voices heard?

I say this not as a player who quit, but as a player who returned, loves Lord of the Rings and just invested in a one year sub.

p.s. I started a suggestion about player voice.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...08#post5931808

[Ebyl]

Interesting thoughts so far although I admit I did not read them all ha ha. Armors in the store makes me cringe a little, but no more than stat tomes honestly.

My thing about stat tomes is, to me, they're a grey area. They don't really have any serious impact on any of the game. I guess if you buy them all early or something, it would make something of a difference. But in the end, who cares, because the early stages of the game have intentionally been made mind-numbingly easy and boring. Once you're further into the game, they don't mean squat. They're nice little bonuses, but they're inconsequential when compared to many other things at that point.

And while I think Turbine crossed a line with them, it was a line into a grey area that doesn't impact much of the game and surely makes them a lot of money. Great, good for them, I have no issues with that. And of course, technically you can get most of them in game, but let's face it, you're not going to.

Armor, though, is not a grey area. When they were trying to placate the players about the hybrid model, they stated there would not be things like armor in the store with stats. Does what they're putting in right now have much real impact on the game? No, but that's not the problem with it.

The problem is Turbine has showed us recently they can't really be trusted to keep to their word. They have been making poor decision after poor decision lately regarding a wide range of things involving the game. So who really believes, given what we've seen, they will stop at just this low level armor? I'm betting not very many players. And when the high level armor starts rolling in, it will have a dramatic impact on the game.

Turbine bids five, indeed.

Also, don't forget that this "problem" the armor is meant to solve is just an imaginary problem. Nothing more is needed to handily complete the early levels than what is already in the game, even if you take out all crafted armor for those levels. Nothing. And even if this imaginary problem actually existed, there are plenty of ways to handle it that don't include Turbine going back on their word with the lotro store.

One of them would even help crafting as a whole - putting in player generated buy orders for crafted items. But hey, it's easier to make up a problem as an excuse and toss some armor in the lotro store to see how many players swallow it. That is the direction this game is headed.

[StavroMuellerBeta]

I mean do we have a voted group of players that serve as our voice to the devs?

Not a group of players per-se, but there is a group that talks to the devs. Warner Brothers.

One could argue that the testers on the NDA Palantir server have more of an input than random forum-goers, but really, all the beta testers can do is rage-quit. In the end, it comes down to the choice between listening to threats from a tiny subset of the player base (which Fernando Paiz says doesn't matter), or listening to the multi-billion dollar company that can permanently shut down the game with just the stroke of the pen and a few tax write-offs.

Posting our thoughts in directed forum rooms is nice and all, but I wonder if there might be a better way to have our voices heard?

Nope, what you see is what you get. Across all of Turbine's services, we get one thread, total.

People have tried to make other threads on different semi-related aspects of the change/direction, but every one has been locked or merged in with this thread. Even German threads originally posted on the German forums can't avoid being merged with this mega-thread. If it mentions the word store and armor in the same sentence, it goes here.

[GV-Tanith]

Humor me here for a moment folks, still on my first cup of coffee. :P

I'm trying to find exactly where Turbine stated that they would never sell stat gear in the store, for reasons of my own. I know more than one of you have quoted it in this thread, but where is it? Can't find it, and want to chase it down for posterity's sake.

[cossieuk]

Humor me here for a moment folks, still on my first cup of coffee. :P

I'm trying to find exactly where Turbine stated that they would never sell stat gear in the store, for reasons of my own. I know more than one of you have quoted it in this thread, but where is it? Can't find it, and want to chase it down for posterity's sake.

You can find it here

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07...-with-turbine/

I expressed the general player concern over whether the store will give the moneybags-player too much of a leg up over others. I was told that they're being careful not to offer any unbalancing buffs or items -- for example, Turbine decided from the start that the store would not sell gear with any stats attached.

[GV-Tanith]

You can find it here

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07...-with-turbine/

Thank you.

[silverblade5445]

Interesting thoughts so far although I admit I did not read them all ha ha. Armors in the store makes me cringe a little, but no more than stat tomes honestly.

Stat tomes did not affect gameplay as much as this thing would affect....

People are speaking of futures and the trend and what not.....its not even that.....for me, I see the immediate danger more clearly than the one obviously forseen......

Gear sold in the store for level 20-30 people will completely destroy the first serious need of grouping that is implemented in the game.....with that range of gear available otherwise, the Great Barrows set of armors will be rendered completely obsolete.....its a lvl 25-30 roughly set and the only reason people would be compelled to run GB....or atleast be opened to the experience of group play.....it would cause GB to be abandoned.....the first and one of the really good instances in the game will be destroyed....as it is, a lot of people miss out on group play because not having enough chances to gain exposure to it.....some people are merely intimidated to try it out.....without any reason to, these people will mostly turn into casual soloers, affecting group play further on.....people would not communicate with each other, causing a more detached community as we see in other games.....why this community is considered to be one of the best is because we work together, interact, communicate and bond.....that is the reason the Instance Finder did not work.....we like to work together and know who we're fighting with not like other games in which you do 10 raids with a guy but dont even speak a word with him.....

Not to mention, people will be skipping content because they already have better gear than what the quest rewards offer them....as well all know, those of us who have gone past that level, the journey is more important and fun in this game than the destination.....this is not WoW where everyone rushes to level cap......the content and the zones and the design and flow of the game is what makes this unique.....

Hence a lot is already going to be affected by this decision itself....not to mention the inevitable avalanche it will be causing in the future.....we stand on a precipice now.....we either stand firmly on this or just fall back and begin the downslide.....the saying "Nip it in the bud" is just for times like this....

[byron7]

Sorry this is too much...
I am playing this game since 2007 and you just manage to kill my joy.
All actions taken by you lately are leading only towards one path and I am not willing to follow it.
As a starters, I will not pay any more money to TB. and I will consider to stop paying as well.
As others mentioned before, if you don't like it don't play it and it takes that direction rapidly - not because of my fault.

cheers.

[LadyDena]

Whatever the viewpoint that's just how it is whether good/bad/indifferent, it's part of the job responsibilities of a Manager in eCommerce:

But you see, people would have at least given them the credit of being HONEST if they had come out and said "we know we drew a line but by crossing it this will help us generate more revenue for lotro". But instead they hide behind this INSULTING excuse that Sapience gave.

Where was this uproar and demand for L20ish armor?
Why wait 4+ years before 'addressing' this?
Look at the Housing forum section. There has been an uproar and demand there. Why not fix THAT instead?

The lame reason that Sapience gave was obviously just some filmsy excuse. They think their customers are stupid (Steelbound Loot box anyone?) and don't even give them the courtesy of being honest.

[Gwanwyn]

But you see, people would have at least given them the credit of being HONEST if they had come out and said "we know we drew a line but by crossing it this will help us generate more revenue for lotro". But instead they hide behind this INSULTING excuse that Sapience gave.

Where was this uproar and demand for L20ish armor?
Why wait 4+ years before 'addressing' this?
Look at the Housing forum section. There has been an uproar and demand there. Why not fix THAT instead?

The lame reason that Sapience gave was obviously just some filmsy excuse. They think their customers are stupid (Steelbound Loot box anyone?) and don't even give them the courtesy of being honest.

Exactly!
The entire reasoning behind adding gear to the store is flawed. If people are claiming there isn't enough gear IN GAME.....wouldn't it be wise to.... add it in game. Fixing the drops and so on.

[Laweh]

All I can say is that I would be more disinterested in armor in the store if I thought the game play was going in a good direction. But my personal opinion is that both Enedwaith and RoI are terminally boring. The crafting is sub-par, even for LOTRO, the adventuring is non-existent, and the leveling up is rote. End game is a boring gear grind. LIs are a boring grind. And none of it means anything because it will all need to be replaced with the next update and more grinds for more stuff without any sense of character advancement at all.

As I've said elsewhere, WB is using LOTRO to test their F2P theories and approach. They are going to push this as hard and fast as they can and see where it breaks. One needs to separate "Turbine", if it exists anymore, from WB. WB's agenda has taken over LOTRO, and that agenda is to tap into the billion-dollar gaming market for all it is worth. Don't kid yourself that this will stop here, it won't, especially if it is well received; that is, it sells in the store.

It doesn't matter what happens here on the forums; it only matters what happens in the store. Let's face it, the pre-WB LOTRO is gone. The game we are playing now is entirely different. This game is designed with one purpose in mind: sell in the Store. We knew that when they took a known game-mechanic, relic removal, and put a price on it. That scroll tells you everything you need to know about where this game is going.

You can bet your sweet bippy that we'll be seeing gear for higher levels, level up packages, and every other cruise control goody WB can think up or sees offered in other Pay-2-Win games. There's nothing to be done about it because this is the future of gaming. WB HAS to make money this way. Gaming is THE most profitable form of entertainment in the world. Nothing is keeping pace with the rate of revenue growth for the gaming industry. Of course they are going to do everything they can to maximize profits.

If this bothers you, now is the time to bail. It is not going to get any better. But I'd be less annoyed about this kind of thing if the game were going in an exciting direction in terms of game play, crafting, or housing. I have no objection to Free to Play, or even Pay to Win. But I'm not going to Pay to Win a boring game.

bravo and well said, it's corporate business at its most cutthroat. Only thing that will have any effect are quarterly revenue reports and projections. We can vote with our wallet.. but just be aware, if the game is a financial loss they will just close it and move to the next source of income.

[Kantaryo]

I have played in several MMOs every time you kill an elite mob you get some nice drops, this is the only game where killing elites gives you squat!!! Why not to make these elites that are at ever level drop some nice top gear that will help to fill the "hole" in armors.

[Abiyah]

Exactly!
The entire reasoning behind adding gear to the store is flawed. If people are claiming there isn't enough gear IN GAME.....wouldn't it be wise to.... add it in game. Fixing the drops and so on.

I think that may be exactly their own twisted reasoning-- better gear for the 20s has been added in-game. The store is accessible in-game, ergo the armor is added in-game.

[Abiyah]

There was a post from yesterday that has gone missing (not one of mine). It was asking about "powerleveling", in the manner that is done on Bullroarer, roll a character and put it at such and such a level. It was in this thread, so it was a store-related question. If the poster deleted it, and I can't think of why, then OK, but I feel the need to point this out, because the thought of such powerleveling in the store context is troubling. I went to bed thinking of answers and implications to respond with, and woke up this morning to find the post gone.

We can buy quest packs-- that's OK and a good thing, I see that as a major reason for the store. But is it planned that we can buy quest packs to start in? I.e. buy Moria and a character to start at level 50? Or even forget the QP, just buy a character at a chosen level and a spot to start it at. If the post that was removed has been done so by a moderator, then that is what's coming. As down as I am on adding the armor to the store, buying a starting level is just way too far.

Maybe the poster deleted his own post. That'd be good. That's what I'm hoping. Because otherwise... I don't even have the words to say what I think.

(This is damage Turbine has done by going back on their given word. A post goes missing, implications spiral.)

ETA: I found another post that had a copy of the question in it, but the original post is gone. "Originally Posted by (removed the name just in case it was removed by a mod-- I don't want to cause trouble for the poster)

Not exactly. Maybe I used the wrong term. I meant buying levels from the LOTRO Store. Similar to Bullroarer where you can choose to go to level 20, 30, 40, etc, right after you create your character."