Dev Diary Feedback: The Ettenmoors

[Celestrata]

The Ettenmoors is a unique place within the world of LOTRO; a corner of Middle-earth that allows players the ability to take up the banner of Sauron and openly battle against the forces of good. Over the course of LOTRO’s lifetime, the Ettenmoors has been updated several times.

This is not one of those times. This is a new beginning; this is a reincarnation.

Read more in the latest Developer Diary from Joe "JBarry" Barry and post your comments here!

[imrebroce]

Finally! The majority of these changes are excellent! This will really FORCE everyone into actual PVP, which is something (at least on the Landy server) that is severely lacking.
However, I really don't know where the idea that creeps are so underpowered comes from.
Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.

[Rugba]

I have to admit, Turbine you surprised me with this one it is looking pretty damn good.

still I will wait and see how it goes after launch I might just buy Rohan if you do this right.

[Louvre]

I really like the looks of these changes . Looking forward to try them .

The only thing is , I was kind of expecting a little more on warleaders & defilers .

Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.

What ?

What ?

I don't get it .

[Oldwiley]

Check out my positive feedback;
its the first time i've stayed interested in a dev diary all the way to the end in, literally, years.

However, I really don't know where the idea that creeps are so underpowered comes from.
Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.

Turbine just effectively pointed out freep dps and healing advantage was stupid. Draw your own conclusions about those who have been in denial. Should anyone survive a full raid on them solo? Replace the word pigeon with RK and sing along to stop the pigeon..

[Eartholloth]

This will really FORCE everyone into actual PVP, which is something (at least on the Landy server) that is severely lacking.

Not me... PVP doesnt interest me at all.

[DreagonMK]

However, I really don't know where the idea that creeps are so underpowered comes from.

It comes from people who PvP and know what they're talking about. You sir, unfortunately, do not.

Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.

Have I ever tried with a full raid? No. Because I kill them easily enough solo. Try killing a shield traited warden with a creep raid and get back to me. You're obviously referring to Moving Target, which might I point out Burgs get an equivalent of (minus the 75% ranged evade) and does NOTHING to prevent tactical damage. You mean to tell me that in your "full raid" you never have a dps RK or Mini? Highly unlikely. Having high finesse counters this quite easily as well for melee classes.

[Louvre]

BTW anyone else noticed this ?

Weapon Types: Sword, Dagger, 2-Hand Sword, Bow, Staff, Mace, Orb, Spear

Quite intriguing .

[Murtanion]

Cautiously optimistic after my first read through. Some early thoughts:

Blood of Fire - No change to the 2 min CD? This CD is unnecessary.

Racial Traits - Still abysmal statistic wise. Defilers suffer in terms of orc racials, reavers don't benefit enough from the small numbers associated with the racials.


Keep "Back Door" - What is to stop players from sending a force in the main entrance, and having a sizable number camping the back door to stop additional defenders from entering? With the changes to the rez circles maps will be more important for Creeps, map spots will be camped more.

Appearance costs (creep) - Are they still @ 7500? This is exceptionally high for anyone, let alone a low ranked player.

Outside of the inherent bonus from the kill is there any incentive (drops?) to enter the delving and kill specific bosses?

[ColorSpecs]

Love the changes to the zone!

The hunter audacity sets with U6 are what ultimately made me unsub. Seeing them back in the same form again is very disappointing! The 3 and 5 set bonuses on the three sets must change.

Armour Sets

For this season of Monster Play, we’re releasing tweaked versions of the currently existing armour sets. The stats on each armour piece are receiving a boost, and we’ve given some love to the set bonuses we felt were lacking most.

There is nothing among these sets that would get a hunter out of the 2/2/2 arrangement they currently use. Bonuses related to CC are terrible. We don't need -25% cc duration on the Precision Set and we don't need to recover distracting shot or even having ROT costing zero focus... CC is all but dead in the ettenmoors. Audacity reduces duration by 50%, there are brands and insignias, there are stun and root pots, there are creep pots that give 1 minute of immunity if pre-potted. There is the super high resist rate for creeps against physical attacks (CC) and then there is Diminishing Returns. Do not give us set bonuses to enhance or defend against obsolete attacks!

we switched out bonuses which affected Power costs. With Audacity already providing a substantial bonus to Power consumption, these bonuses provided little value.

If that is the case, why isn't the Heartseeker power cost on the predator set removed?

Note that because we thought that many of the set bonuses were already in a good place, they’ve gone unchanged.

If the hunter sets were in a good place, why doesn't any self-respecting hunter take advantage of them?

On the three and five set bonuses it should be something like:

Predator:

3 - Heartseeker Induction Reduced
5 - Needful Haste grants Improved Focus crit bonus

Precision:

3 - Barbed Arrow usable on the move after Improved Scourging Blow strike
5 - Focus cost of P-shot and BA reduced to 1 while Fleet Stance is active

Entrapment:

3 - Track Foes, Nature and Shadow grants Heightened Senses Bonus without having to slot the trait
5 - Low Cut removes slows and grants 5s slow immunity

Change these sets please!

[Patrickwg]

Wow did not expect no where near this much stuff to get changed. Nice to see PVMP getting some dev love again. Will have to play it to see how "good" these changes will be, but a big thank you to turbine for putting in the effort to improve it.

*still reading it

[Gardhik]

OMG.

I'm really looking forward to September... even if I will have to do 10 levels, gears up before I test this ^^

[GrandCru]

Overall it looks like very good changes for zergers and clubbers, and nothing for healers.

Very enlightening to see Armour Sets with level 75 set bonuses

At least there're cosmetic weapons What an incentive to rank up!

[Nyrion]

Jesus' pants, this was a blindsider.

Not really sure what to say here. Um...

guess I'll start with requesting other stuff then. Like primarily creep damage typing be automatic rather than through traits? It's practically a requirement for all creeps and it wastes a slot.

I'm really not someone who can make a full critique of these changes, perhaps someone else can, but...

thanks for not forgetting the Moors exists, I suppose.

[Fortinobrand]

Interesting, the focus on "sides" rather than single objectives might make this worth playing. Two points:

1 -- I mostly play my RK/Cappy/Mini, and I'm generally the healer. Why is there still no reward for rezzing people, or for healing people? Yes, it can be argued that keeping our side alive keeps us going, but if I choose to stand in the middle of a battlefield and heal/rez our side while being aggressively singled out by the creeps, should I not earn reward similar to a dps class? This is a significant oversight by the design team, and one that shakes my faith in their grasp of pvp play.

2 -- Will this be yet another situation where Turbine says "this is a start, there's more to come" and then we never hear another single word about it?

[theboon]

Bring back the switching time limit gate and will you be bold enough as Codemasters were in in the past to punish fightclubbers ,punishments were like bans and resetting of infamy/ renown

Boonie

The Avengers Officer

Black Guard Officer

[czgn]

As someone who only very recently entered the 'Moors as a creep and still super new to the whole concept, I'm pleased to see that the commendations will be dropping to acquire new skills. My BA is rank2 and has slightly over 1000 commendations or half what each of the 2 new skills that are available would cost. Was disappointed when I ranked up and saw I was no where near getting a new skill.

[theboon]

BTW anyone else noticed this ?

Weapon Types: Sword, Dagger, 2-Hand Sword, Bow, Staff, Mace, Orb, Spear

Quite intriguing .

I have a nice pair of orbs --on my RK that is

Boonie

The Avengers Officer

Black Guard Officer

[Daec]

Finally! The majority of these changes are excellent! This will really FORCE everyone into actual PVP, which is something (at least on the Landy server) that is severely lacking.
However, I really don't know where the idea that creeps are so underpowered comes from.
Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.

I think you're confused a warden with a BA.

I really like this dev diary, especially the relics having a significant value to them. One thing that would be nice would be to reduce the damage reduction the relic gives you and if the relic carrier is killed the relic drops on the ground, allowing the other side to pick it up and return it to their own keep or another player from the side which took the relic to pick it up and continue on (unless they are killed of course). This would make fights over the relic extremely interesting.

[Phakdush]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating!

Words mean nothing, they are only words. Until this expansion goes live thats all they are.

[btowtow]

I have to say it does sound reasonably promising ,liking the doubled commendations gain from killing people especially saves some of the grind and nice to see turbine has paid some attention to damage inequality .... well some .It will be interesting how this actually all works though.

[kerda2000]

So Turbine,

You're making all kinds of skill, tower and area changes.... what about the obvious glaring imbalance that has still not been addressed:

The fact that some freep players flip to their creeps almost immediately and retake everything you've just worked for, for 45 minutes or more? It's become the joke of every server when people start leaving your raid, and you better not get stuck there without a port or a map out.

How about a timer delay between flipping from freep to creep (or vice versa).. a moors lockout as it were. You play in the moors on a freep and you have to wait X amount of time before being allowed back in on the other side - at least then you have the ability to REALLY hold a keep, instead of just having this BS occur every single time.

The main thing that has pushed "real" players out has been this ridiculous nonsense where a raid that captures a tower/area suddenly has 3/4 of it's members bail because they "have to go", then 5 minutes later a massive wave of creeps comes storming in on a reduced-number raid (same people playing the other side). In my opinion, this is effectively cheating, since the incoming creeps have full knowledge of where and what the freep force contains (and doesn't contain). THIS is the true imbalance of the moors. The players that don't participate in this behaviour end up being destroyed by the fore-knowledged creeps while their freeps are safely tucked away.

Of course, we can also mention the fact that GLFF and other world-wide channels are used to encourage this ridiculous behaviour.

If you create a timed lockout, then at least the people that participate in this behaviour will either have to (a) stop informing their buddies of everyone else's location and party strength size and risk their own hides, or (b) at least not be able to immediately benefit on the other side.

How can you hope to "turn the tide" in a realistic/RP way, and achieve a real sense of accomplishment, only to have it destroyed immediately by people who just play this bouncing game back and forth.

If you aren't going to address this issue, expect the SAME people, and the SAME population and the SAME tactics as before. (and I'll still be playing game content, and ignore the moors).

[Borafin]

Was definately not expecting this long/in-depth of a Dev Diary on the Moors...a couple of things:

1. First off, big props to Turbine for giving the Moors some love...love or hate the changes, at least they are giving PvMP some much needed attention.

2. Creep Skill/Trait cost reduction is a huge relief to creeps. It is sad to have a rank 3-4 creep and still only be able to use the default rank 1 skills.

3. Landscape changes - the idea with the outposts could be fun...some running battles fighting over control of the OP's could change up the traditional keep fights and would allow a smaller group of people to play a significant role in the overall scheme of things (RvR fights over keeps, while GvG fights over OP's?)

I'm sure I'll think of more, but it's a lot to process.

[BirdofHermes]

First off, I am happy with the new creep skills and the lowering of prices for skills and traits. Kudos.
However, the changes to the EM mechanics concerning keeps, OPs, relics and DoF seem absolutely terrible. It basically screams for groups to circle around the map, above and below ground, taking everthing they see while the opposite side does the same. You'll be lucky to even *see* the opposite side all night.
Devs claim they want less PvE, but these changes make PvE more important and more vital than ever before, adding 40% damage, mitigations and extra audacity for controlling areas.
And would it kill you to remove the commendations cap of 10k?

Also,

• The Lug rez circle has been moved south about 100 meters into a small stand of trees within site of the River outpost

Orc Camp has been moved to where the TR rez circle wasThis allows it viable access to TA, TR, OR, AE Outpost, Isendeep Outpost, Grothum.

Would it kill you to re-read before a dev diary is posted? This sort of thing just makes it seem amateuristic, half-arsed, and generally gives the feeling like you don't care.

[DorianFalkenmond]

I remember several diaries saying..
.. that a relaunch was coming
.. that they were listening
.. that they FINALLY would balance the moors


The result was always the same.

Dont expect anything, you might be disappointed.


(Some of the diary sounds nice. But especially the outpost/keep changes are simply stupid. Again Turbine is going to buff the winning side even more.)