Dev Diary Feedback: The Ettenmoors

[Squelcher]

I beg Turbine to not listen to the freep QQ this time around. People are already QQ'ing at the concept of creeps getting even a small increase to their strength.

As the diary said, the boat needs to be rocked. TOUGH CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE for the good of the PVP. Creeps have been the victims for long enough. Buck up, freeps.

[Dawnsinger]

Generally the dev diary is great but there's one skill I missed seeing there.

The warg skill Throat Rip is often the skill that decides the battle will be possible or not as it's the only real way of hindering a healer (recently had a dps grouped with a captain and a lore-master). The lore-master antistun skill makes stuns worthless and if used on a healer the silence with Throat Rip is often the only chance (at least in the battles I've seen).

While I appreciate the skill it's got 2 MAJOR drawbacks. It's got a long cool down, meaning that 1 warg can realistically only use it once in a fight and it's often resisted (I might be unlucky but tested it a while back and got 40% resisted). This problem comes up because freeps will use pots for the first silence most of the time, meaning that you need to have 2 wargs both hit with this skill in order to see the effect.

It would be good to either see the cool down reduced or the resist rating reduced for this skill.

10 seconds is fine for the duration. It's usually not long enough to make a kill, but it's long enough for a window of opportunity to change the way the fight is going.

(it's the only warg skill I've got a problem with, because it's so necessary when fighting a healer of any sort and it's just a sure defeat if it gets resisted)

[zxzxz]

Nop.
This is not even close for me to resub and buy RoR. Still too much pve, no new promised map, comm grind, freeps will still crit 6k+, champs just running around with their sprint and bubbles, minstrels still being OP, wardens still able to take on a raid without dying, greater healing on freepside than on creepside, the list goes on. I don't see me playing this ever again, until then ill be playing GW2.

This issue is not so much about unbalanced, but lack of pvp content and the same old same old.

[spiritintelligencia]

Another thing I did not like: Reducing warg's sprint and hips to 3m. As of now, most wargs use these skills to run anytime they drop below half health. I really think the CDs should stay where they are now.
.

signed.

On our server, most days wargs occupy 10 of the top 15 spots each day.

They also brag about their 30/1 and 85/1 kill-to-death ratio.

Wargs can stand toe-to-toe with freep heavies but have the choice to leave if the heavy gets in a few good crits/bleeds, while the heavy has to stay.

Wargs are the FotM class of the last several months... and you are going to make it EASIER for them to gank and hips/speed away!!??? What am I missing here?

[OverlordGate]

This is the right way for PvMP! Excellent Dev Diary! Excellent Changes!

Don´t know if the +200% Infamy of the keeps and the delving of fror is a bit too much. But you keep an eye on it! Perfect!

[zxzxz]

This is the right way for PvMP! Excellent Dev Diary! Excellent Changes!

Don´t know if the +200% Infamy of the keeps and the delving of fror is a bit too much. But you keep an eye on it! Perfect!

Actually it isn't. They just made pve even more useful.

[asearchforreason]

I think any mastery bonus is probably too high. Have incentives to take outposts be commendations/renown bonuses. But, IMHO, anything that tends to make the current winning side stronger is not a good thing for balance. If balance gets too bad, the side that is on the short end currently tends to log. This is positive feedback for that condition. As is the relic bonus for that matter...

Many board games have balancing mechanisms that prevent the current leader from running away with the game to keep the game interesting for longer. Same theory applies to moors. You always want an incentive for both sides to come out and fight, regardless of the relative factional strengths. The dominant side will likely be able to get all the outposts and will thus be more dominant...

I do think this positive feedback loop needs some serious play testing. It seems like it could go very badly with the strong side getting stronger.

That being said, I think the devs chose outposts as the main "strength" boost because they are easy to take. If you log your creep into a blue map with a lot of freeps out, with a capable and quick group of 3 or 4 you can pretty easily ninja a couple of their outposts and then take the fight to the freeps. Of course, they are going to be roaming the map looking for you, but that should spread them out more and give you a fighting chance...I think that is Turbine's hope anyway. Besides, don't forget the troll and ranger (up to 3 of each) are now connected to control of these strategic points.

[Ferthcott]

Wargs are the FotM class of the last several months... and you are going to make it EASIER for them to gank and hips/speed away!!??? What am I missing here?

I would reserve my judgement on that until we can see how exactly new trait/skill/racial boxes are looking after Beta - who knows, it could mean setting a warg up for "maximum cowardice" will result in significant gimping of eg. dps.

That or Hunters are finally getting Heightened Senses passive and/or revamped and stealth itself is going to be slightly nerfed.


OK, that last line was a stroke of unhealthy optimism.

[Eartholloth]

Nop.
This is not even close for me to resub and buy RoR. Still too much pve, no new promised map, comm grind, freeps will still crit 6k+, champs just running around with their sprint and bubbles, minstrels still being OP, wardens still able to take on a raid without dying, greater healing on freepside than on creepside, the list goes on. I don't see me playing this ever again, until then ill be playing GW2.

This issue is not so much about unbalanced, but lack of pvp content and the same old same old.

You already have been told why there is no new map coming.

[Phenylcyclinide]

Improving Commendation distribution in large groups.

Yeah, terrible idea. Saying what "you're investigating" does nothing but add to the word count, like almost 1/4 of the first page which does nothing but vaguely describe goals. And noones going to go to the delving to kill the bosses still, for infamy buffs. Alot of players at this point (at least I naively tell myself this) enjoy the fights rather than the points.

The creep changes all look good except warg, 3m CD on traited sprint AND disappear? It's ok to admit when you just don't want a class to die. Skills like disappear shouldn't be there in the first place.

50 bucks says the current freep cosmetic (pvp armour) gets copy-pasted at least 3-4 more times before it's changed.

[zxzxz]

You already have been told why there is no new map coming.

Not asking for a new map, but to simply take away these pve nonsense and to rework on the whole map. Why are there so many keeps/outposts? Delving? More pve. I don't see how these changes are good for people who actually do want to pvp....

[borges_maze]

First, thank you, devs, for the attention. It's obvious you all put some serious work into this.

For the most part, these changes look very nice. The lowering of creep skill/trait costs is huge, and the boost to creep damage and healing is very much needed. It will be interesting to see whether the LIs stay in after the pve population has its qq fit, but I think it's a nice reward for dedicated pvp'ers.

Really, my main gripe is with the continued insistence that we pve. While I think the proposed system is much more dynamic than the old one, I do not see it as any great improvement, as most will still be focusing on taking keeps, outposts, etc. Also, it makes zergs the most effective grouping option. Once a zerg gets rolling with the boosts, it will roll the map (and the opposition) even faster. I understand the usefulness of a zerg, but I wouldn't want it elevated in effectiveness above small group or solo play. Additionally, I think this new incentive system for pve targets will further discourage open field fights. I do, however, like the position changes of EC and OC, as they will allow use of the camps as forward bases.

My only other gripe is that I want more than a 10% discount on the armour I trade in, but, really, that's just me being lazy and is not a big deal.

Overall, it looks like a positive step forward.

Edit: I agree with the many others who want a timer reintroduced.

[timmyloo22546]

The fact that some freep players flip to their creeps almost immediately and retake everything you've just worked for, for 45 minutes or more? It's become the joke of every server when people start leaving your raid, and you better not get stuck there without a port or a map out.

blah blah blah blah

You didn't read the dev diary very well. Flipping keeps/outposts/relics only to flip sides and take it again will be of zero value to anyone.

[site400]

Apparently some of the LOTRO devs got access to the GW2 beta weekends.

[Wilkor]

All sounds well and good but unless I missed something this is still catering to established players. Doesn't matter how many fancy shinies you throw in at the end of the line, if a green creep still gets 3-shotted by a freep no-one is going to bother sticking around when there are multiple alternatives that don't penalise you from the start.

[Almagnus1]

Only thing really missing is have some sort of SWTOR/WAR style autoscaling for the lowbie freeps. If level 40-85 were able to join, and the 40's able to grind XP out there, in addition to everything else, it would make it rather interesting.

Of course, the audacity gear would need to scale by level then.

I think any mastery bonus is probably too high. Have incentives to take outposts be commendations/renown bonuses. But, IMHO, anything that tends to make the current winning side stronger is not a good thing for balance. If balance gets too bad, the side that is on the short end currently tends to log. This is positive feedback for that condition. As is the relic bonus for that matter...

Could always give a commendation bonus upon death if the other side has 2/3 of the cap points out there.

[Grhysli]

As part of these changes Distraction has been disabled in the Moors.

If you're interested in testing out and seeing the changes in action and you are in beta, everything in this diary is live on Bullroarer.

So does this mean Hunters lose ANOTHER skill when playing in the Moors?

In addition to Desperate flight being disabled we now have Distracting Shot Disabled?

If this is the case then I will continue to boycott the Moors until such time as my skills are re-enabled.
This really kills all enthusiasm I might have had for returning to the Moors on my Hunter.

[zxzxz]

Apparently some of the LOTRO devs got access to the GW2 beta weekends.

If this is true. I suggest they stop right there, nothing can compete with GW2 at this point. That made me laugh irl though


They are making us pve more than ever with all these benefits of keeps/outposts...how are people saying this is the right way for pvmp. I bet people will still flip everything again with zero value.

[valderk]

it seem to me that one of the complants on my server is freeps doing the emviroment and not pvmp this system seem to make it an absolute nessity to pvpe bfore you pvmp it seam the force the very thing the playersdidnt whant in the first place.
is there any thing you can do about kins going out on one side or the other but have one or two toons on the other side point out where the stealth targes are or reporting evcery move made giving there kin mate a tactical addvantage such as have a freep point out where burges are stealthed then when the creeps show up they they go right to the burge and dont do any thing to the freeps helping then out this hapens both way it got to the point i dont party with any one but kin and hve to go to great lenghts to loose all tagalongs i think this is counter productive and unfare to freeps and creeps and alowws larger kins to controll game play in the moors

[avengingbananaslug]

The one thing I would say is I don't think comms are that bad to get now, but that's partially because of map deeds. If we need to reget audacity while already having done all the map deeds, that could be an issue. Give creeps some sort of credit or let us redo the deeds or something along those lines.

[Tinluen]

As part of these changes Distraction has been disabled in the Moors.

If you're interested in testing out and seeing the changes in action and you are in beta, everything in this diary is live on Bullroarer.

Ok you are leveling the playing field for heals and damage... when does my hunter get the set that doubles my morale? This is giving a huge equalizer to creep side which they need, but the changes I am seeing are going to make my hunter uplayable. BAs already are cranking out huge dps and you will give them steadfast barrage on the move with skirmisher stance? I can't kill a ranked war leader/defiler now.. they are going to be impossible with the healing buffs you are talking about and giving them damage increases on top of that is crazy. I played both sides and know that certain classes are better than other fotm .. but my hunter hasn't had any reason to be in the moors for three books now and this book will be worse than any other. We are already at the bottom looking up, you giving us a shovel to dig down a little deeper? The hunter gear is again pitiful... CC isn't killing me it is dps and inflated monster morale. I can't increase my morale without destroying my dps. Hunters have the biggest loss of dps for morale and vice versa out there and virturally same horrible set is showing up again. Why?

Show me how my hunter is going to compete now with skills that will ignore even more of my useless aud set. I need to know o because while I like the changes to the landscape a lot my hunter is going to die harder and faster than ever before... aud was supposed to prolong fights but it isn't working that way for my class. A 10% bonus for turn in... when you released the aud numbers at the start of this brilliant plan the turn in was half..... now 40% disappears. My set that I have now is 75... we are ranking to 85.. the set you give me now is no better who you trying to scam? Sure I can get more aud quicker... if I kill monster players but how will I with the handcuffs on?

Tydalmir

[angrolas]

So does this mean Hunters lose ANOTHER skill when playing in the Moors?

In addition to Desperate flight being disabled we now have Distracting Shot Disabled?

If this is the case then I will continue to boycott the Moors until such time as my skills are re-enabled.
This really kills all enthusiasm I might have had for returning to the Moors on my Hunter.

You misunderstood. By "Distraction" he means the Minstrel skill that reduces npc's perservation radius by 75%. Not the hunter skill Distracting Shot.

[asearchforreason]

So does this mean Hunters lose ANOTHER skill when playing in the Moors?

In addition to Desperate flight being disabled we now have Distracting Shot Disabled?

If this is the case then I will continue to boycott the Moors until such time as my skills are re-enabled.
This really kills all enthusiasm I might have had for returning to the Moors on my Hunter.

No, he's talking about the minstrel skill "Song of Distraction" which makes NPCs have practically zero aggro radius so freeps can walk right past them into a keep without much fighting.

[Moop69]

No Moors-only nerfs to champs, wardens or minis...? Still no use of the monster-play buff to balance freeps?

Warg escape skills do not need to be on shorter CDs.

Piercing Claws

Your vicious claws allow you to tear through even the toughest armour.

Melee attack that ignores 50% of your target’s mitigations and does 10% of the target’s max morale as damage.

Somehow I think this is a bad idea...

IMO WL shield bash should be a base 3s stun and a 5s stun on crit without the CD reset.

BA buffs are good.

3: -30s Heart Seeker Power Cost - Lolwut?

5: Remorseless Strike Pip Cost Removed - This is going to be lulzy.

The stacking buffs from relics/outposts should be right click removable or something like that. It's going to really annoy a lot of people if they can't have fair 1 v 1s because of what the zerglings are doing. I was trying to think of a way to keep it only affecting the zerglings. I thought of suggesting making it only apply near keeps/OPs, but then the opposing side would just not fight while the buffed side turtles in the keep/OP. I thought of making it apply the buff for X amount of time when you leave the keep/OP zone, but it would be rather silly if you could see somebody, run into range of the keep to get the buff, and then go totally destroy the first person you saw.

You shouldn't be able to enter/exit the delving in combat.

No changes to CC being worthless. And no moors casting concentration skill for LMs(Maybe in an added skill? Somehow I doubt it). Yay

[Ferthcott]

So does this mean Hunters lose ANOTHER skill when playing in the Moors?

In addition to Desperate flight being disabled we now have Distracting Shot Disabled?

If this is the case then I will continue to boycott the Moors until such time as my skills are re-enabled.
This really kills all enthusiasm I might have had for returning to the Moors on my Hunter.

Um... this is going to be a very, very long boycott then, with Distraction being a property of another class.

And in terms of "hunter enthusiasm" - direct your inquiries to ZC :P