JWBarry's comment, from Massively article

[Fantoma]

true story!



Good point -- hadn't thought about the comments in the reverse.

Somebody ACTUALLY gave me negative rep for this post... can you believe that?

[Krindus]

I have to agree with Demetrius, and I think people are completely overreacting to this single statement that, by most accounts, appears to be taken out of context. I don't see how this is any different than how Isengard was handled either. They give us an expansion, along with an armour set to acquire once we reach endgame. The only difference is that this time, the armour set can be acquired by doing daily solo quests, whereas in Isengard it was acquired through fourth-mark/seals that were acquired from skirmish raids and Draigoch. A couple months later they released the Instance Cluster, an update geared toward raiders that included better gear and better armour sets.

While we have no information on the planned Instance Cluster that is coming with Rohan, we do know that it -will- be coming, likely a few months after the release. No idea how this plan has been affected by Rohan's delay, but I agree that it's irresponsible to assume that after one statement that there will not be a 3-man, 6-man, nor 12-man raid tied to Rohan in some shape or fashion. Have a little faith, people. Turbine knows what the people want, and there's no reason they can't cater to both solo players and raiders alike.

[Witch0King]

Except that there will NOT be any raiding content with the expansion....all we have is a shady promise that there will be "something later on." We have absolutely no information about it, which unfortunately leads us to believe that when we do get the cluster we will be very underwhelmed.

Actually: RoI, they said the cluster would come later and it did: Fangorn, Pits & the big troll thingy, Draigoch & ToO.

[musicman2000]

Somebody ACTUALLY gave me negative rep for this post... can you believe that?

Some things never surprise me -- wish I could give you some more rep to fix it.

Don't let it get to you.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

Actually: RoI, they said the cluster would come later and it did: Fangorn, Pits & the big troll thingy, Draigoch & ToO.

Draigoch was released with RoI, no?

It was available to be run on launch.

Ahh yep. I remember this post fondly: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...A-Aussies-Gift

So much crying.

[Sapience]

I do wonder what makes them think that most players are casual.. how can they know this? I'm only asking because I know so many who have alts that they are leveling, crafters, etc so what exactly is this demographic based on? Per account or per characters created, active, levels, etc. I guess I'm not entirely sure that there can be an accurate account of casual verses raiders. Anyway, was just curious. Also wanted to say that for level 50 - Shandows of Angmar - there was a lot more raiding end-game content than now so that could be yet another reason why there are fewer raiders today. No idea really.. trying to understand is all.

Nearly everything done in game is logged. We know what percentage of players participate in which types of content. What players have characters at which levels. How many characters a given player has.Which instances are run more than others, how many times a given player and character runs any given instance. How often instances are completed or abandoned.

[Witch0King]

Nearly everything done in game is logged. We know what percentage of players participate in which types of content. What players have characters at which levels. How many characters a given player has.Which instances are run more than others, how many times a given player and character runs any given instance. How often instances are completed or abandoned.

now thats just great, now I have to look over my shoulder for everything I do

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

now thats just great, now I have to look over my shoulder for everything I do

They have that time you were tickling and kissing that hobbit in the Green Dragon logged.

Better lay off the ale.

[Sapience]

They have that time you were tickling and kissing that hobbit in the Green Dragon logged.

Better lay off the ale.

Oh we fraps that and share it around!

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

Oh we fraps that and share it around!

ROFL! Maybe that should be placed in one of the community updates..

[Crell_1]

Oh we fraps that and share it around!

You mean you don't simply throw the log at a replay function in your own Private Test Shard so you can view it from any angle you want?

[Lestache]

I think there is a reason why it is called 'taking offense'. We can choose to find offense in anything, even if none is offered or intended. I think there is some of that going on here.

Mind posting the above in one of the endless festival emote threads?

I also think the age old (and LOTRO has never been immune to this) debate of 'hard core' vs 'casual' can go under many many names, but always ends up being the same discussion. Ultimately the facts are that raiders have always been a portion of our playerbase and will continue to be. Casual players and PvMP players also make up out player base.

While we have always created opportunities for those with a mind to raid to do so, and recieve appropriate rewards, we've rarely given those who aren't in that group the opportunity to acquire similar rewards through a game play menchanic that was challenging to those who opted not to participate in that kind of content. This time, we are. We're still commited to releasing instances post Rohan, and we've already made significant changes to the Ettenmoors for launch.

If anything, Rohan is the first expansion that will ultimately offer some type of content for all players, regardless of how they choose to play. Whatever your stance of "raider vs non-raider" or "casual vs hardcore" I think we can all agree that more options for everyone is always a positive thing.

[Emphasis mine. Spelling in original.]

Fair enough, and thank you for letting us know. I'm curious as to how "challenging" the Hytbold endgame is supposed to be. Reports out of beta seem to place the quests in the "spend 20-30 minutes doing five easy repeatable quests" category. Are there actually some challenging solo quests mixed in there as well?

[Omen_Kaizer]

Oh we fraps that and share it around!

and Bilbo's like:

[Fredelas]

Draigoch was released with RoI, no?

It was available to be run on launch.

Ahh yep. I remember this post fondly: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...A-Aussies-Gift

So much crying.

If I remember correctly, Draigoch was only available to be run at RoI's launch because it had already missed its previously planned release deadlines.

That raid was originally announced in December 2010, failed to be released during the April 2011 Anniversary Event, and eventually came with Rise of Isengard in September 2011.

To me it seems possible that issues with Draigoch's development are what pushed RoI's instance cluster back from September 2011 to December 2011. (Turbine made that announcement a month before RoI's release.)

Despite all that, I still think there's plenty of time for Turbine to release a new instance cluster before the end of this year as promised. Since the community reacted so well to RoR's launch delay, I'm sure Turbine wouldn't hesitate to tell us if the instance cluster might be similarly delayed.

It does seem strange though not to provide us with any more details about the upcoming instance cluster. We were supposed to get more information "later this summer", and we're already several weeks into fall now.

[Crell_1]

Fair enough, and thank you for letting us know. I'm curious as to how "challenging" the Hytbold endgame is supposed to be. Reports out of beta seem to place the quests in the "spend 20-30 minutes doing five easy repeatable quests" category. Are there actually some challenging solo quests mixed in there as well?

Depends on what you find challenging. There's the make me want it enough to do it challege ( 'Fishing' quests), the Platformer quests (involving coordination) (Arrow Delivery/Beacon of Eaworth*), one of which you can be summoned for completion, the other you can't. There's the 'pay attention' quests which rely on animation or other visual cues for successful completion (Dress-up, Dressage, and whatever the wounded Medic one is!).

Certainly if you're in any of the endgame NON-MC public instance spaces, they're likely to be moderately challenging on your own, because they're supposed to support a few dozen players at a time and make use of open-tapping. If you're working along side those other players, they're not going to be particularly challenging by a long shot. Even going in at 84. If you strike out to do them on you're own, there are more than a few which require strategy and careful planning to complete on your own.

[Fredelas]

Fair enough, and thank you for letting us know. I'm curious as to how "challenging" the Hytbold endgame is supposed to be. Reports out of beta seem to place the quests in the "spend 20-30 minutes doing five easy repeatable quests" category. Are there actually some challenging solo quests mixed in there as well?

The challenge in Hytbold is that it takes a minimum of 44 days of five quests per day to rebuild it completely, and another 6 days of five quests per day to get an armour set. (Rebuilding Hytbold completely is optional; players don't have to do all of it to get the armour.)

There's also an added first-time challenge in figuring out how the whole rebuilding and armour acquisition mechanics actually work. It's not rocket science, but it's not exactly like anything we've ever done before in LOTRO.

[Fantoma]

Nearly everything done in game is logged.

Uh oh... is there logged video evidence of me with that dirty Dwarf in the back alleyway of Bree??


HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO MAKE IT GO AWAY?!?!

[Crell_1]

The challenge in Hytbold is that it takes a minimum of 44 days of five quests per day to rebuild it completely, and another 6 days of five quests per day to get an armour set. (Rebuilding Hytbold completely is optional; players don't have to do all of it to get the armour.)

I can't emphasize how true this is. The challenge of any of the quests to acquire tokens for the rebuild PALES in comparison to the length that they've set the time sink to. .. I'm just hoping the Finished rebuild 'story' is worth it, and I'm glad to hear that it's more than just getting the 'Thane' title. The question is: Is the ending worth 44 days to see, or is it a huge letdown when we see it? Here's hoping its the kind of epic moment that makes us long for the next thing you guys produce =)

[JuaQuins]

I don't see your point. I've read and reread that quote, and I fail to glean from it any insult (nor have I discerned a cause for amusement). His point seems perfectly valid as well as clearly and succinctly expressed.

ITA! Much ado about nothing...

[Lydondales]

My initial reaction was not one of insult from the bolded line. Raiders are there to grind out gear, I dont know about the 'win' part but I do know they like to get the best gear and the feeling that brings. I felt the next line about raiders 'having their day' came off a bit more patronizing than I hope he intended.

[Norwrei]

Nearly everything done in game is logged. We know what percentage of players participate in which types of content. What players have characters at which levels. How many characters a given player has.Which instances are run more than others, how many times a given player and character runs any given instance. How often instances are completed or abandoned.

Big Brother hires WBGames :-) Just want to say that there really IS a reason I have 10 or or more level 1 minstrels!

[trancejeremy]

If you read the whole article, it's probably the article authors point of view (on raiders).

But because of my notorious uber-casual gaming style, I had little hope of seeing the content anytime before the 2016 presidential elections; stalled in my low 60s, I am ineligible to participate in LotRO's upcoming content.

Speaking as a casual player like that (although I've eeked up to level 66), that's pretty much how i would describe raider's gameplay. Is it offensive? Probably.

But it's interesting to see how Rohan does, because while the gameplay in it is appealing, casual players like myself and the author of the article won't be seeing it because we won't be at level 75 for a couple years.

Turbine should have considered adding something like that to a lower level area. Maybe rebuild Trestlebridge? Or a new low level area?

For casual players, leveling in this game is just extremely slow...that's something Turbine will need to address in this and any future XP. They've sped it up some since the game launched, in half in many areas, but there are still level ranges that drag on and on and on.

[ifreborn1]

Nearly everything done in game is logged. We know what percentage of players participate in which types of content. What players have characters at which levels. How many characters a given player has.Which instances are run more than others, how many times a given player and character runs any given instance. How often instances are completed or abandoned.

in other news, the NFL has noted that there are more people that participate in casual flag football games. With this coming to light the NFL has desided to disband and cancel the rest of the 2012 season.


See you all in th park.


All jokes aside I am curious if you cut out the top end player, how will the bottom end react? Some times the prize even if you may never acheve it is a driving force in it self.


guess we will find out

GL without the press and buz turbine.

[Catburg]

I think "win" is in inverted commas because........nobody ever will, bwah ha ha!

I don't see any insult but then again the printed word doesn't come with facial expressions, body language or tone of voice.

As to why heavy instances are still produced if hardcore raiders are a small minority? Well it's like the fashion industy, they have their catwalk shows exhibiting extortionately bizarre outfits on infeasibly thin models which the majority can not afford, fit into or in reality would really want to wear. The wild couture is only a small income the big bucks lie in the accessories and perfumes etc that most of the market can live with but the extreme stuff provides the publicity.

[the.undying..]

The challenge in Hytbold is that it takes a minimum of 44 days of five quests per day to rebuild it completely, and another 6 days of five quests per day to get an armour set. (Rebuilding Hytbold completely is optional; players don't have to do all of it to get the armour.)

thats called GRIND not CHALLENGE ... how can you miss the point that much?

and if you dont know what a gameplay challenge is and why F2P games need to avoid gameplay challenges like the devil the church, dont bother yourself anymore

have a nice ay