Update 9: Against the Shadow and the Rohan Instance cluster

[RainsLegacy]

This week, Update 9 will go live on the Bullroarer test server. In addition to a number of bug fixes and updates, this update will also include the first half of the Rohan instance cluster. The second half of the cluster will be released in 2013.

When we made the decision to delay the release of the Rider’s of Rohan expansion, we also made it clear that we would still honor our commitment to release the instances this year. Because of the delay in shipping Rohan, development time for the year was obviously reduced. This left us two options; either delay the entire instance cluster until 2013, or release those instances we felt could be completed with the highest degree of polish in December and delay the others until they are ready (currently expected to be February). We’ve chosen to honor our commitment as best we can with the limited time remaining in 2012 while still insuring the highest quality possible.

We want to be very clear that if you purchase the Riders of Rohan expansion, the entire instance cluster is free. You will have access to all instances listed below released as Part I in Update 9 and Part II when it releases at no additional charge. As long as you’ve purchased Rohan, you’ll get all of the instances listed.

We also want to share with you the full plan for all seven instances.

Instances shipping with Update 9: Against the Shadow

Riders of Rohan Instances (Part 1):

• Iorbar’s Peak (Misty Mountains / Stone Giants-3-man)
• Webs of the Scuttledells (Mirkwood 3-man)
• Seat of the Great Goblin (Goblintown 3-man)

Shipping in 2013 (Currently Planned for February)
Riders of Rohan Instances (Part 2):

• The Bells of Dale (6-man)
• Flight to the Lonely Mountain (12-man; single boss)
• The Fires of Smaug (12-man; single boss)
• The Battle for Erebor (12-man; single boss)

Many of you have asked if we’ll ever see the Lonely Mountain. Hopefully this gives you the answer you were looking for.

The full release notes for Update 9: Against the Shadow will be available when Bullroarer goes live.

Why only 3 mans? how long aand complicated are these? I hope really useful, because skraiding only is worthless now, ive got my entire kinship geared for the raid.
Why not give us one of the raids or 2? they aare all single boss, and top it off, you'll still have to come out with a multiboss liar for the first ages? assuming they wont give us them.

[FundinStrongarm]

I will be disappointed if Flight to Erebor isn't a Mounted Combat raid. (It doesn't sound like it will be though.) If there's no MC instance or raid, what's the whole point of the LI part of war-steeds? It's not like you need ANY bridle to do the landscape quests or warbands.

[AaylaKheledlire]

I know this is lord of the rings online, but I think the 90% of the players want too see "the Hobbit" zones too. We saw so many times the lotr zones in many games, but never the hobbit zones. I hope in the future can see them. PLease!

[Crell_1]

We are going to Dale and the Lonely Mountain as part of this story, but will not be adding new landscape in the area with these instances.

Instances WITHOUT landscape entrances?

./sadface

Could we perhaps see the landscape added in the future?

[angrolas]

IMO they need to work on making old instances not obsolete. There are around 50 instances that people never even run, some have never even heard of them. Increase some enemy stats and add some shiny new gear. The structure, mechanics, and mobs are already there.

Its a shame that we all have to make a big deal over these RoR instances, because in a year from now they will all become obsolete just like the rest of them

[donxavier]

I'm confused why so many people are disappointed by this announcement. By February 2013 you're going to have 7 new instances, three of which are 12 man...and it sounds like we're finally making it to Dale and the Lonely Mountain. Here's hoping we get to see Thranduil's realm was also assualted during the Battle of Erebor.

Most likely the four instances in February will tie into one another leading up to the Battle of Erebor, which lasted three days. That was a huge battle.

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

It's nice to know that you folks want to try harder to deliver a quality product later instead of delivering a mediocre one early. I appreciate the effort. And the honesty. So I'll be honest as well.

I'm disappointed. Very disappointed. Not at these news. I'm disappointed at the big picture. At the chain of events leading to this point.

There was a time when the instance dev team was capable of getting a multi-boss raid ready at the expansion launch. Alongside an instance cluster. Then there was a time when they at least got it ready before the end of the year. Alongside an instance cluster. Now we don't get a raid at launch. We don't even get it before the next year. The one fellowship instance is also coming late(r). We are given 3 small fellowship instances to play with for the next three months. An estimated three months, mind you.

The current amount and frequency of the "highly polished" instance content is meager at best. Unfortunately, even the quality of the delayed-for-polish content is open to prediction. Remember how Draigoch got 6 months of additional polish yet still ended up the way it did. Sigh.

I was eager to go back to dedicated raiding. But this is a clear message. This is telling me to stay away. I will do just that. I'm no longer going to expect anything from LoTRO in the instance department. Something will be released sometime when it gets enough "polish". I'll just check it out when it is here.

[mjk47]

Please make a poll who likes to play 3 player instance and who will play a RAID of 12 players.

And you could include a question on who doesn't care whether any multi-player instances are there or not. it might be interesting.

[Lestache]

I'm confused why so many people are disappointed by this announcement. By February 2013 you're going to have 7 new instances, three of which are 12 man...and it sounds like we're finally making it to Dale and the Lonely Mountain. Here's hoping we get to see Thranduil's realm was also assualted during the Battle of Erebor.

Most likely the four instances in February will tie into one another leading up to the Battle of Erebor, which lasted three days. That was a huge battle.

The idea of a "battle" raid does have some appeal to me as a Champ main, assuming that "battle" means wave after wave of adds that must be dealt with while we're also fighting the boss.

I'll be disappointed if the battle resembles the Isengard epic chain in which we'd fight 2-3 mobs at a time while 90% of the mobs around us were just unassailable background.

[Lestache]

It's nice to know that you folks want to try harder to deliver a quality product later instead of delivering a mediocre one early. I appreciate the effort. And the honesty. So I'll be honest as well.

I'm disappointed. Very disappointed. Not at these news. I'm disappointed at the big picture. At the chain of events leading to this point.

There was a time when the instance dev team was capable of getting a multi-boss raid ready at the expansion launch. Alongside an instance cluster. Then there was a time when they at least got it ready before the end of the year. Alongside an instance cluster. Now we don't get a raid at launch. We don't even get it before the next year. The one fellowship instance is also coming late(r). We are given 3 small fellowship instances to play with for the next three months. An estimated three months, mind you.

The current amount and frequency of the "highly polished" instance content is meager at best. Unfortunately, even the quality of the delayed-for-polish content is open to prediction. Remember how Draigoch got 6 months of additional polish yet still ended up the way it did. Sigh.

I was eager to go back to dedicated raiding. But this is a clear message. This is telling me to stay away. I will do just that. I'm no longer going to expect anything from LoTRO in the instance department. Something will be released sometime when it gets enough "polish". I'll just check it out when it is here.

I was trying to formulate these exact thoughts earlier and just couldn't figure out the words to do so. The above post pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

[Jokeurthewise]

I am only truly ever disappointed by the number of disappointed people you can meet on a forum...

Cheer up everyone, we are going to the Lonely Mountain!

[VoodooJack_EU]

It's nice to know that you folks want to try harder to deliver a quality product later instead of delivering a mediocre one early. I appreciate the effort. And the honesty. So I'll be honest as well.

I'm disappointed. Very disappointed. Not at these news. I'm disappointed at the big picture. At the chain of events leading to this point.

There was a time when the instance dev team was capable of getting a multi-boss raid ready at the expansion launch. Alongside an instance cluster. Then there was a time when they at least got it ready before the end of the year. Alongside an instance cluster. Now we don't get a raid at launch. We don't even get it before the next year. The one fellowship instance is also coming late(r). We are given 3 small fellowship instances to play with for the next three months. An estimated three months, mind you.

The current amount and frequency of the "highly polished" instance content is meager at best. Unfortunately, even the quality of the delayed-for-polish content is open to prediction. Remember how Draigoch got 6 months of additional polish yet still ended up the way it did. Sigh.

I was eager to go back to dedicated raiding. But this is a clear message. This is telling me to stay away. I will do just that. I'm no longer going to expect anything from LoTRO in the instance department. Something will be released sometime when it gets enough "polish". I'll just check it out when it is here.

You cant improve on perfection and that just sums up my feelings exactly. Excellent post Moon.

[cossieuk]

I'm confused why so many people are disappointed by this announcement. By February 2013 you're going to have 7 new instances, three of which are 12 man...and it sounds like we're finally making it to Dale and the Lonely Mountain. Here's hoping we get to see Thranduil's realm was also assualted during the Battle of Erebor.

Most likely the four instances in February will tie into one another leading up to the Battle of Erebor, which lasted three days. That was a huge battle.

We wont see much of Dale or Erebor as we are not getting any landmass just the instances.

The Battle of Erebor was on 17 March and this is a bit further along the time line than we are. We still have Helms Deep to see first, 3rd March. Aragorn taks the Paths of the Dead, 8th March and many other things before the Battle for Erebor.

This seems like cashing in on The Hobbit, not a bad thing, but lacks continuity with where we are and the fact this these instances are part of the Rohan expansion

[epargPZ]

Extremely disappointed about the lack of a REAL raid and only ONE 6man.

I assume in regards to the bug fixes that they are going to finally fix HiPS after years of being broken - Yay!

[chetdawg30]

Sooooooooo.....Riders of Rohan instance cluster, yet no instances in Rohan ? and then some crazy set of instance/raids that take place in the hobbit movie lands, but only 2 months after the movie is released ? Yikes.........

I'm also not holding my breath that we will get the actual regions of the hobbit movie either, nor am i totally sure it will be our true player participating in them.

[Dorothir]

Props for releasing at least some of the cluster earlier than otherwise. Also on having 3 lair raids instead of the 1 I was expecting (though I find your lack of multi-boss disturbing). However, the lack of any 6man/raid for another 3 months is terrible.

I also question the theme of the instances and raids. Nothing about them seems to make sense to the Eastemnet.

[sarefx]

And you could include a question on who doesn't care whether any multi-player instances are there or not. it might be interesting.

And thats a problem to raiders. Raiders have become minority. Most people want easy content. I personally disappointed in 3 12 mans with single bosses, but again if its gonna be like moria and we will get 12 with wings in another update than its cool, but I doubt =(

[Lohi]

&&&& ... single boss really ? draigoch was so fun fight ... oh w8 it wasnt ...

Yes, it was very fun. I know those multi-hour raiders didn't like it, but it was a lot of fun.

[Laire]

Wow. This was definitely unexpected in a few ways.

I find it somewhat amusing that the complaints, when they pop up, vary quite differently from soloers and raiders.

On the other hand, it looks like you guys have obtained the rights to the Hobbit back if the fires of Smaug one... actually means the fires of Smaug and is not some metaphor for the Easterling invasion. If so, congratulations on that aspect.

I am not too terribly suprised that Turbine layoffs = delayed content. Disappointing move from the higher-ups of Turbine.

[Lohi]

Yesterday in game was a lot of whining because someone started some absurd rumor that we'd only get scaled instances as the new cluster. Honestly, people were believing him. Nice to have actual news to shut up people whose only goal is to encourage others to leave the game so that they're not the only ones leaving.

[Urfang]

We'll know more when we see the instances. I would like to see something really challenging in Rohan though.

You know what I’d like to see? A “Defense of Hytbold” raid.

Full raid size. Several phases.

The setting: Hytbold has been rebuilt. The orcs hung back and let you do it so they could demoralize everyone by burning it again.

Phase 1:
Not mounted.
Siege!
Manning the walls as the raiders attack.
Big phase for ranged people.
Object…whittle down the attackers as much as possible before they breach the walls.

Phase 2:
Mounted
Sortie!
While the enemy regroups after their losses at the wall (you hope they had losses) you run sorties into their ranks trying to destroy siege engines, etc..
There would be TONS of enemies on foot and the sorties would go right through them. Close coordination between the “spear tip” riders and those behind healing, etc. would be crucial. This will be easier the more enemies were killed in the siege phase.

Phase 3:
Not mounted.
Breached!
The walls are breached and you fight a gradual retreat to the mead hall, cutting down as many foes as possible on the way.
Big phase for melee people with range and healers in the back doing what they can.

Phase 4:
Not mounted.
Turning the tide.
Beat a raid boss at the mead hall and other raid bosses at strategic places throughout the city.

Phase 5:
Mounted.
Harrying the retreat.
The enemy has been driven out of Hytbold, but if allowed to regroup, remains a threat. So a last sortie is sent out to harry the retreat. One or two bosses will be fleeing and must be destroyed before they can exit the map.

Now, IMO, that would be a blast and a half. Foot combat. Mounted combat. Offense. Defense. Advancing. Retreating. And an absolute requirement for coordination.

(This is a re-post from something I put up on our Kinship site...)

[Lohi]

But yeah... being so very far out still.... and again only one new six-man... yikes.

Yes, they need two maybe, and reduce number of raids. I really think, though I don't have numbers, that multi-wing raiders are in a very tiny minority in this game. The vast majority at soloers, and the next biggest group are more casual groupers, and very few at all are in the kin-only tier 2 show-off-your-gear raiders. It's really not worth it for Turbine to spend too many resources on content which very few people do.

But 3 one person raids that could be fun. Depending on difficulty of course. Draigoch was about right, a LOT of casual players got into that one and had fun compared to the Watcher which excluded so many people for so long.

[Nevril]

3 3-men Istances at Dicember
1 6-men Istance at February
3 12-men single boss raid at February (not even comparable to OD or ToO)

Why did I (and many members of my kinship) payed 65€ at September?

The answer is simple. Someone, some so called "senior" designer or whatever it is, should fire as soon as possible a lot of so called "developers" and start to give a job to some serious developer/programmer/designer. I don't know, someone with ideas, new ideas, that maybe knows not only to write

public void main(){
System.out.println("Bye bye LotRO!");
}

but also knows how to exploit data parallelism instead of function parallelism, and most of all knows the meaning of the acronym M.M.O.R.P.G. (aka MASSIVE Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game).

Ok, done.
Troll me now.

[Tolgaring]

So.. first we had to donate to Ze Sapience Fund - Get him extra salary.

Where can we donate for decent updates?

PS: Have fun removing my post, it's not like you're doing anything useful anyway.

[Isharra]

The 3-mans are getting out of control. 6-mans do a lot better job of taking advantage of the synergy of the various classes working together in a group. The class balance was origianlly designed around 6-man groups. The FM system reaches its pinnacle in 6-mans. 6-man groups allow for more interesting fight mechanics. Because 3-mans are inevitably easier, the loot is always a joke.

This is pretty much what I was thinking as well. The number one thing I love the most about this game is the class design, as well as the synergy between them. I hope very much that if this ever happens again in the future that full fellowship instances will be given higher priority (so that one or more of them makes the first wave), and so that more will be created in the first place.

Other initial reactions:

1. Ooooh three raids. Yes, they sound smaller. I however make no assumptions about difficulty or even size, really. 'Single boss' means exactly only that. For all we know, one or more of them could be like the first lock of Barad Guldur: gauntlet + intense boss fight. Or maybe one could be a 5-minute group loot pinata experience. Say what you like, but turtle is one raid that people STILL run ALL the TIME on Vilya, BECAUSE it takes like five minutes (and not everyone has their precious, precious Nanu's Hiding Place yet).

2. I am suspecting rather a lot about why none of the instances are in Rohan. There's the obvious Hobbit Movie public appeal, yes, but then there's also this: we haven't gotten to the ZOMG EPIC BATTLE that takes place in the Rohan part of the story line. That's obviously going to be when the other half of Rohan lands in our game. I would bet there's going to be some major instances centered around that. I'm willing to wait for my Rohan-flavoured instances for that timing in the story. Remember also that the Enedwaith instance cluster was, for the most part, NOT in Enedwaith, but that was nothing to have a sad over.

3. Loot and itemization for these instances will absolutely make or break them (as has been the case with so many other instances). Please, please, please, powers that be, please make it so that the effort:reward ratio makes sense both for this cluster and for its individual release waves. *looks at bullroarer testers* please run the snot out of these and make sure your feedback helps the powers that be to balance this properly.