Update 9: Against the Shadow and the Rohan Instance cluster

[Saelyth]

Lotro is dying, this update just confirmed it...

The game needs a system revamp like Kinships more than single boss raids. And it's needed 2 years ago now... The thread in the suggestions forum have more support than all other suggestions together and yet Turbine still ignores it... way too easy to not keep customers interested. You will get new players with the hobbit movies, that is right, but you will lose the old ones. That's how you want to balance the game... before thinking in the Lore or anything else you should realize this is an MMO game and we play because it's (should be) fun to play.

[Tangaar]

ty for the update dev team
Looking forward for BR to open but

BOOOOOOOOORING

[Uron]

Only 3 3-mans until next year?

LOL

See you next expansion. Maybe then we will have an ACTUAL, FULL, EXPANSION

[Reapor]

I have a query,

although the instance cluster was expected to be delayed I am pleased to see some new release in dec, although this IS all part of a package that we have already paid for.

Now normally we would get a new Update around Feb/Mar, normally a Book Update, does the release of the raid Cluster mean we will not see an Update till much later in the year.

Because if so then thats a bit lame, just because the full RoR package has shipped late, due to no fault of the customer, does not mean we should lose out on one of the Updates.

Looking forward to an Official answer on this.

[Dinge]

i have just one question, will the hytbold tanking set be able to last through one 3man without going out to repair?
with roi only giving a healing set before instances i had to heal my way through them, now i will probably just get out my torgnir set or get the leader set and bring along some squishies

[Dorothir]

I have a query,

although the instance cluster was expected to be delayed I am pleased to see some new release in dec, although this IS all part of a package that we have already paid for.

Now normally we would get a new Update around Feb/Mar, normally a Book Update, does the release of the raid Cluster mean we will not see an Update till much later in the year.

Because if so then thats a bit lame, just because the full RoR package has shipped late, due to no fault of the customer, does not mean we should lose out on one of the Updates.

Looking forward to an Official answer on this.

I'm joining you on that concern. I don't want to see a delay on the expansion, which then causes a delay in the instance cluster to then result in no other updated content in February. A delayed half of an instance cluster should not be seen a suitable replacement for an actual update (like a new zone or other such things). If anything, an update should come along side the release of the second half of the instance cluster.

[GingerAj]

Mega Happy at the Clusters being released later on ...that hopefully means less bugs and gives me time to gear up get to 85 ...and virtue grind (can only do this once in uni break *sigh*)

Love the fact that there are 3, 3-mans !! I love 3 manned instances, and cant wait to play these

[Earenya]

I am only truly ever disappointed by the number of disappointed people you can meet on a forum...

Cheer up everyone, we are going to the Lonely Mountain!

Same for me. I'm glad they adding the content and as a lifer, this game is the best out there. Cheers! And don't forget second breakfast! Oh and bacon scones! Now on to The Lonely Mountain!

[Armaius]

Lotro is dying, this update just confirmed it...

Dying games don't release new content.

The game needs a system revamp like Kinships more than single boss raids. And it's needed 2 years ago now... The thread in the suggestions forum have more support than all other suggestions together and yet Turbine still ignores it... way too easy to not keep customers interested.

Kinships aren't a major selling point for the game and never have been. They could use an update, certainly, but I would hardly call it a priority. I'd rather have new content, new areas to explore etc. I've seen the thread and yes, the ideas are good. But there's only so much time and there's only so much money to spend and so much manpower- they have to prioritize on what to focus on.

Updating Kinships isn't going to keep my interest - its not new content. There's nothing to actually *do* with an expansion of the Kinship functions.

You will get new players with the hobbit movies, that is right, but you will lose the old ones. That's how you want to balance the game... before thinking in the Lore or anything else you should realize this is an MMO game and we play because it's (should be) fun to play.

Agreed. A fun game is a successful game. LotRO has been, in my book, quite successful because I've enjoyed myself immensely for the past two years I've been playing.

[vermknid]

A few questions ...

1. Were instances touted as part of the Riders of Rohan expansion pre-purchase?
2. Were instances to have been included at the time of the expansions release?
3. Are the instances to be released in any way, shape, or form the instance cluster that was to have been released with the Riders of Rohan expansion?
4. What did we pay for? what are we getting?
5. Is that legal? If I buy an apple or orange on the assumption that that's what will be delivered and you give me a lemon is that a form of theft?

Non- related question

1. Skirmishes, are they the latest feature implemented that will see no further development or release?

Rant

I'd rather see development of features that we currently have than another expansion.

Classes
Hobbies ... herbcraft, hunting, etc...
Housing
PvP ... Ettenmoors
Races ... further individual racial differences
Skirmishes
... etc

[Rishnakh]

3x3mans noone cares about?
1x6 man?
No Multibossraid.

Do you guys work at office or just sleep?

No Multibossraid is extremely disappointing.. cant describe it.

[Irowen]

Well... one question: What to do until February??

[Southpa]

The crux of the matter is that Turbine is teaching us that their word is ever-evolving and should never be taken at face value - nor should derived expectations be based on previous experience with this game. Anyone else find that incredibly disheartening?

When they say "instance cluster", people think of Dol Guldur, In Their Absence and Tower of Orthanc.
I don't need to draw the lines explaining where and how this new crop doesn't belong - and is in no way connotative of what has historically meant "instance cluster".

Sure, I'll reserve final judgment for when I actually experience them, but I am now completely done giving them the benefit of the doubt - or my good faith.

DON'T SET TIMELINES. Don't use terminology that creates expectations logically based on past history of your product. You don't do yourselves a lick of good because you can no longer deliver the way you used to.

"Against the Shadow"? Really?? How freaking generic is that? Forgive my disapproval, but you popped my hope balloon with the title alone. We have no business traveling from Snowbourne to Dale in the context of the current timeline or story.

Creative capital must not have made the last round of cuts, either.
Eeeehsh....

[JTollers]

I am not surprised to see Hobbit related instances, and whilst they divert from the main story, I am very excited to see these parts of Middle-earth. My main concern is with raids being released so late, they never take off as well because they are over-shadowed by expansions looming in the not so distant future. I personally hope we do not get an expansion in 2013 and we get some decent end-game content to really work at with more focussed updates instead.

I do not mind single-boss raids, at least there are three of them.. Can be run one after the other for those wanting multi-boss raids. I just hope they prove interesting and not mind numbingly simple like the turtle raid.

With all this Hobbit related content I hope to god that the press department has a good marketing strategy in place to pull in fresh blood.

I agree Gal!

Hopefully they will be a bit more on the Draig side to curb that, but I really do think what folks are asking for is a 12-player dungeon style raid that launches with an expansion (like SoM did) so that kinships can have a full year to really go at it. DN and OD suffered because of their timeline to live, and ToO while released in Q4 was really top notch raid that most kins were only getting down June/July and that was hampered by expansion release news where folks just saw the content not worth repeat play bc it was obsolete.

There are a couple ways this can be amended. Release raids sooner, deliver expansions always 1 quarter later than the previous, make some part of that raid content or gear more lasting (at least necklaces were that from ToO), but it has to be a bit more than just that. Maybe it's the decon of a 1st age or something.

Im just flushing out that I think this content type is highly desired by many, and numbers that may confront that may be misleading based on things Gal points out above or the lasting value of the loot from that content.

Naturally, what some want is not what all want...and I think this strategy from Turbine is good for the company and for many many players. I think also though the type of food you leave in the tray will also encourage the type of company and culture you desire to maintain. A good mix is best imo as my kin enjoys all of it, I think this veers a bit away from some player styles/interests more strongly than in the past, but it is worth giving it a review and sound try, but also worth taking note on what later content does when new xpacs are announced. I think replay value and strong steady play up until release is desirable from all parties and all styles.


Another suggestion is that I am not sure level cap increases are the only modus operandi to new skills and traits. We don't nec need new levels every expansion. The main purpose is to gain new skills and to create certain content that is gates to certain levels. OD and the EoD cluster were 75 and while an update from the F2P "Expansion," it worked fine except for the quick RoI level up. Why not for example just have raid deeds and other instance or landscape event deeds be paths toward new skills and traits. This would help all content at that present level cap work together and provide variety. Raids while being harder and require more people to contribute could take less of deed X while instance or landscape deeds of a sort take more...it's a thought in a way to not make previous gear and content obsolete every year. You could release West Rohan while keeping us at 85 and doing New and Older content all toward a similar purpose (new skills, traits, gear etc)

[cossieuk]

Mega Happy at the Clusters being released later on ...that hopefully means less bugs and gives me time to gear up get to 85 ...and virtue grind (can only do this once in uni break *sigh*)

Many people have mentioned that more time means less bugs, but look at RoR it was delayed by 5 weeks and it is still very buggy especially MC. How bad would it have been if it was not delayed.

Draigoch was delayed for many months but it was, and still is, very buggy.

[Lothirieth]

Well said moonwalk.

I too appreciate the sentiment of wanting to release quality instances, but the cynic in me wonders why Turbine is no longer able to release material on time.. and is also using these as faux updates (since we were once promised regular updates.) Material we've paid for is now taking the place of these updates.

Whilst the locations and content of the new instances are intriguing from a lore perspective....

I'm quite disappointed and not excited. And what an odd turn to suddenly go to Hobbit stuff. I know the movie is coming out and all, but I hardly see how this can attract that many new customers given this is all endgame stuff. Also, we've been spending lots of time in Rohan so where is the group content regarding that?

I'll reserve judgement for when I see the raids as something like the Watcher could be fun. But I'll really miss having a multi-lair raid. It's not good to have to wait 4! months for all expansion content to come out. Whilst it's nicer to have something in the meantime but I'm really perplexed as to why one of the lair bosses and a 6-man couldn't have been released first. Groups that like to raid likely aren't inundated with tanks. I forsee grouping and getting everyone into this content when they're interested in seeing it to be a bit difficult.

I just feels like Turbine is giving some of us less and less reason to log in. I play Lotro to have a solo AND group experience... as it has always been.

.
.

I assume there will a separate price for just the IC seeing as you can just by the Quest pack for TP. I believe that's how it was in ROI.

This is completely wrong. The 4kTP(ish...4295 I think?) expansion that is available on the store does include the instance cluster. Sapience has said this, also the store made it clear.

I don't understand this....why do so many people want the raids to be hard?

So we have something to do for more than a week. The alliance I'm in beat ToO T1 the first week it came out. T2 was an entirely different situation that kept us busy.

Depending on difficulty of course. Draigoch was about right, a LOT of casual players got into that one and had fun compared to the Watcher which excluded so many people for so long.

No, Draigoch was not about right. It was far too easy. Casual kins completed it fairly fast.

Just curious - but over the past 6 months, what have you been doing as a raider? Has there been enough content to raid weekly in this game recently? Is it doing the same thing over and over again? How often do you raid?

(and I honestly don't know because I don't raid at all, so am curious)

My alliance was trying to finish up all ToO hard modes and get the Original challenger of Saruman title. Now that we've done that, things have screeched to a halt. There are some skirmish raids and a Thorog or two, but we're not playing with each other all that much. Most of the group and leveling and gearing multiple alts, but personally I can only stand to get the one toon up to 85 and geared. I have zero motivation to do that with another. I'm also logging into Lotro less.

[p3tar]

Dear Turbine/Lotro developers,

This great game is slowly dying and please make some major changes before Elder Scrolls Online run you over next year. Do you honestly think that throwing tons and tons of new content while the mechanics and the schema remains the same and unchanged will keep us happy? OK yes, we have new mounted combat (peak of it is to kill Bugud), open tapping and auto-loot systems, but that is nothing that could be done to keep the fire of this game burning. You are ignoring lots of good suggestions presented to you from the real engine of this game and that is us, the players. Even when this new instance cluster arrives that will not save the day. Community sites like LotroInterface are less and less active, plugins and skins are abandoned, and imho that is a bad sign for any game. I would rather see more gameplay changes than this instance cluster in 2 phases.

Please make some core changes like:
1. Revamp kinship system, introduce kin alliances, wars, kin ranks, kin specific content, kin bonuses/buffs for pure kin raid etc.
2. Make old instances scalable! fast! and revamp the loot tables
3. Introduce new mechanics of some kind, new combat play, new LI mechanics
4. Give us more personalized content, better customization system
5. Make more public instances and landscape events that anyone can join
6. Open moors for non VIP players with some sort of weekly time limit
7. Make cross servers content/instances possible
8. Fix server lag issues and rubberbanding
..etc..etc

I hope Turbine will come to some senses!

[Ingaras]

Well, at least I don't have to hurry to get to level 85 anytime soon.

I honestly can't believe how you manage to make an entirely solo-expansion and then manage to push the eeny-weeny-tiny-bit of real group content available all the way to February (with it probably being obsolete by June due to the announcement of another level cap raise, and before anyone says 'but you've got 3 raids', remember that almost all previous raids had 5-6 bosses... with BG the exception which needed a full hour of trash inbetween to keep people from going to fast through. So 3 'wings' isn't a lot at all.).

I'm appreciating the new concern about polish and quality though, just doubting your prioritization. By the end of the year your main end game will be 4-months old dailies, the 'nice, bite-sized sidegame' of skirmishes and 'variety from true 6-man' 3-mans... ie. almost all sidegames, where's the real content gone?

[vermknid]

There isn't enough of the finest weed in the south farthing for me to misidentify that what Turbine is attempting to do should be considered illegal.

Tout a Rohan-related instance cluster as part of the expansion pre-purchase then release unrelated material after they accept payment?

Love the game, will never quit, but ya gotta call bull&&&& when ya smell it.

[Lestache]

Yes, they need two maybe, and reduce number of raids. I really think, though I don't have numbers, that multi-wing raiders are in a very tiny minority in this game. The vast majority at soloers, and the next biggest group are more casual groupers, and very few at all are in the kin-only tier 2 show-off-your-gear raiders. It's really not worth it for Turbine to spend too many resources on content which very few people do.

But 3 one person raids that could be fun. Depending on difficulty of course. Draigoch was about right, a LOT of casual players got into that one and had fun compared to the Watcher which excluded so many people for so long.

You're probably right about the relative populations in this game. I'm sure that people capable of completing T2C content are a small minority, but that is by design and definition - if a large percentage of people can complete the most difficult content then there is no difficult content.

Purely by population numbers, it's probably not worth it to Turbine to develop content for that small group of people, but Turbine has done so in the past and those of us in that group always hold on to the hope (perhaps futilely) that Turbine will continue to do so.

So yes - by and large I find that I have to agree with you. I must object to your "show-off-your-gear" descriptor, though - the top tier raiders that I know don't show off their gear or link it in GLFF, and the people that do get off on linking stuff in GLFF or otherwise drawing attention to themselves (at least on E) tend to not be in the elite groups (someone in another thread used the fantastic term "second team syndrome" to describe such folks). In the interest of full disclosure, I must confess that I have linked my [Map Home] a few times.

[Stephen1981]

3 mans is a slap in the face to be honest i like 6 mans and 12 mans and since those are not tell feb. really debating taking a break tell feb since you have nothing to do but run skirm raids which i'm bored of now

[Isilmacil]

Content is in the eye of the beholder. For me this is a really cool step! I was surprsied that Turbine would take the route to make a Hobbit themed update, but awesome all the name.

Concerning the raids. From what it sounds like they'll be based around the Lonely Mountain. I just have to ask how it'll relate to the present. Since the Battle of Five Armies happened 60ish years before the start of Lord of the Rings, how will our characters fit into things? Will it be like a session play thing, or a way to start the Battle for Erebor early?

I ask since in the timeline of Lord of the Rings Sauron doesn't launch his huge attack til after Isengard is defeated, and when Aragorn shows himself in the palantir. Which is a big gap for that from where we are currently in the Epic books. So my mind just can't quite contemplate how the raids/6 man will work into the story. The 3 mans I don't see as much of a stretch.

About the idea of a multi boss raid. Honestly, I find that from a Lore angle it'd be hard to do. Cause remember, the last multi boss raid ended with facing Saruman! He is the ultimate baddy in Rohan.You can't really top that without it feeling out of place. Single boss raids thus aren't trying to top the previous multi boss raid. So I can't comment on a gameplay aspect.

Overall it sounds exciting, lets hope it shows up well in game for the raids come next year.

[Piedtendre]

Hi !
Thanks for the information !
Any french version of this soon plz ?

[Ghibhay]

Hi !
Any french version of this soon plz ?

Salut, tu l'as sur le site des furets du gondor (fais une recherche sur google pour le trouver

[vermknid]

While I know that opinions will likely vary, how can people not be upset with not being given what you've paid for?