Update 9: Against the Shadow and the Rohan Instance cluster

[Hordvin]

Okay, first thought on this: OMG!

Second thought: still OMG!

We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!

The raiding players on my server will be in shock after this. Nothing to do until february. So they will be seeking for other games.

I can´t see any reason for this nail in the coffin! Why not releasing 1 3man, 1 6man and 1 12 man in the first part? Just 3 manned instances sound like a new Hytbold to me.

I guess, many players of all servers will say goodbye - well done!

[Braithir]

Throwing in my two cents here....

1) So many 3 mans? I agree completely with all of the posters who have lamented the lack of 6-mans in recent times. And seriously....which non-raid instances have gotten the most mileage since Rise Of Isengard? That's right - The Foundry and The Roots Of Fangorn. These are what you always saw groups forming for.....in contrast, you rarely ever saw groups for the smaller 3 mans after the first several weeks of release. People were still running Foundry and RoF right up until RoR was released. From what I've seen, the only two 3-mans that were ever popular were The School and The Library at Tham Mirdain - and not many people do those anymore, scaled or otherwise.

2) Rohan has to be the first major LOTRO zone cluster that has no instances of its own.....which is frankly incredible and ridiculous when one considers how crammed with instances Moria was. The last two expansions (Mirkwood and Isengard) also both had a decent number of instances....but now we finally get to Rohan and there's no "endgame" group content? It's just Hytbold? Seriously? And what was the point of mounted combat and warsteeds if they have no real use outside of galloping around and annoying warbands? I suspect alot of players thought the new instance cluster would at least have group content involving warsteeds.....but based purely on the instance descriptions so far, one might assume not?

[Beastnas]

The 12-man instances are the Battle of Dale, and could be thought of as wings of the same raid. We separated them to give context to the story as the battle proceeds over the course of a week.

After reading this and thinking about it, I'm slightly less disappointed. Assuming they're like wings of the OD or ToO encounters and not Turtle, I think it's a pretty decent idea to not have to deal with locks of a multi-boss raid and allow greater access to the content. I just hope Tier 2 Challenges and corresponding rewards are on par with those style of raids.

Although this is all just hopeful speculation, and I will likely go into hibernation till February.

[Haradim]

Three thoughts:

1. Excited that there should be instances to run around Christmas-time.

2. Disappointing that the larger instances wont be available until February

3. In response to the complaints about single boss raids, I honestly can't see us just fighting one boss during the Battle of Erebor. Also, Rowan's comment if you didn't already see it:



EDIT: Ok, so in terms of timeline, these instances throw everything WAY out of whack.

War of the Ring

• February 23, 3019 - First Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Destruction of Isengard
• March 3, 3019 - Battle of the Hornburg
• March 13, 3019 - Battle of Osgiliath
• March 15, 3019 - Battle of the Pelennor Fields
• March 17–20, 3019 - Battle of Dale
• March 25, 3019 - Battle of the Morannon
• March 27, 3019 - Lifting of the siege of Erebor

Also, Battle under the Trees of Lorien takes place March 11-22 and the Battle of Mirkwood takes place March 23-25.

Based on what has happened in game thus far, I think it is safe to assume that it must be March 1st in game.

• February 23, 3019 - first Battle of the Fords of Isen.
• February 26, 3019 - battles with orcs near Parth Galen
• February 29, 3019 - Rohirrim destroy the orcs who captured Merry and Pippin

So these instances are just skipping ahead over three weeks in terms of the story? I'm a bit confused...

LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own

[cdq1958]

We wont see much of Dale or Erebor as we are not getting any landmass just the instances.

The Battle of Erebor was on 17 March and this is a bit further along the time line than we are. We still have Helms Deep to see first, 3rd March. Aragorn taks the Paths of the Dead, 8th March and many other things before the Battle for Erebor.

This seems like cashing in on The Hobbit, not a bad thing, but lacks continuity with where we are and the fact this these instances are part of the Rohan expansion

If my memory serves, there were 3 battles involving Dale, Erebor, and Lorien spanning several days, with the last battles occurring on 25th of March.

[Lestache]

I am curious as to how we'll be acquiring the presumed final upgrade to the battered ring of rohan.

The tooltip: "While restored to most of its former glory, the ring feels like it is missing something..."

It doesn't make sense to me that the ring's final upgrade would depend on something obtained from an instance far away from Rohan, but maybe it will. Or that final upgrade will just never appear in the game? Or perhaps won't be obtainable until the next expansion into Western Rohan?

[Leo_Dan]

LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own

Yes, but Rowan explicitly stated that the raid is the Battle of Dale which occurs at a specific time. This is a problem.

[valgorlim]

very excited grats guys again you have listened to your players .
And are being honest with us looking forward to polished raids thankyou.
If riders of rohan is a bench mark you have raised the bar .

[Vandervahn]

...
3 silly single boss raids, and that in february 2013? omg you cant be serious. ...

And whats the problem with single boss raids?

[Hordvin]

Well, single Boss Raids sound to me like either the Turtle (10 Minutes an over) or like Draigoch ( too complex to code and having annoying Bugs)

[neb-hobbit]

I'm seriously depressed. It's like turbine had to make a choice about what portion of their player base to displease and they picked raiders and groupers as they're the minority. Except that Rohan is a solo heavy expansion already and this way we get cut off entirely until February.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about playing (and enjoying a challenge) with friends and kinmates. This is a MMORPG after all, we're supposed to play together, if I wanted to play solo there's a billion better games out there.

What should our events look like until Feb? Gather up and then split in 3 man groups, hoping we have enough healers and tanks? We want to play together, like, you know, in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game.

My thoughts exactly.

[Kwiat_W]

This sucks!

THREE 3-man instances? I hate those! Only one 6-man instance?!
All raids have single boss?!
No ror themed instances/raids?

Again: this sucks!

I already have legendary RoR so I'm going to stay and play with those instances/raids, but after that I'm gone!!! This game is a disappointment after a disappointment.

[Zombielord]

Any news whever or not Tarnished symbols will be available from skirmish camps ?

Relying on LoL-boxes from Bugud and skraids isn't really something I want to do for the next 3 months ...

[n3xxus]

Dear Turbine.

My raiding kin has been sitting on its hands since the RoR expansion, expecting a 12 man raid in December. I’m sorry to say, many of use feel Turbine has failed after reading this news.

Here’s some advice for the next time you plan this;

RoR could have waited. Mounted combat wasn’t that special. You could have released a Hobbit themed instance cluster with the movie release in Dec. Which we would have paid for and this would have given raiders more time in the Isengard 12 man. THEN released RoR in Feb and an RoR themed instance cluster in the summer of 2013. Which we would have paid for as well.

I don’t know how I’m going to get my raiders back from GW2, Halo, CoD. Western Rohan Better ROCK IT. Either go big or go home.

[Lohi]

No, Draigoch was not about right. It was far too easy. Casual kins completed it fairly fast.

It was too easy for regular raiders. Not too easy for a lot of PUGs though. I have seen it wipe, even relatively late in the year. If it was "too easy" how could there possibly be wipes? The answer is that not every player is the same. Sure, it only takes 2 people in the raid to know what they're doing, but it can still go wrong.

And when I have been in it many times, most of the players there seem to be having a lot of fun. Early on in the year it was mostly regular raiders getting more stuff, then they moved on to Isengard for the most part. After all the normal raiders left though it changed a lot, people started showing up to have funb. Many players stopped gearing up after getting Draigoch set, they were never going to do Isengard and get better stuff, but they still showed up after that point because they had fun!

When you say "casual kins" you mean kins with enough players to get together to run it together, presumably I think kins that actually do raids or instances together. To me a casual kinship is one that does not do raids or instances together normally, so it would have to have maybe 50 active members to be able to get a Draigoch group together (12 people, not the 6 or 7 person runs).

Of course it is too easy for some people. So what? Those people can move on to the tough stuff. We should never judge difficulty of content based upon what the top tier of players think.

[Selitta]

With only the 3 men being released before 2013 looks like my healer will be much more desired than my burg :/

[Lohi]

For me the main problem isnt about the single-boss raids its more about the fact that there is only one 6-man instance coming!

Ya, that's a bit disappointing. Those tend to be the easiest to get a group together for. 3-mans overall are too hard and/or too dependent upon having the right group makeup. And 12-person is either a full raid too difficult, or easy enough but too hard to get a full group together (especially after the regular raiders have geared up and moved on).

However Isengard only had one 6 person. I wish they had two, and they eventually did (though roots is hard enough I don't even like doing it at level 85, though foundry is a blast).

I didn't do the earlier 6mans that much at the time, as they felt either too hard or players insisted on silly challenge modes or players were picky about gearing up. I think Isengard changed things up a bit because you could get decent gear a bit easier than in earlier expansions.

[Elterion]

on the cluster I feel only one negative
content less than Isengard
would make Ettenmoors open to all

[Lohi]

1) At least we get something new to do besides the boring, monotonous Hytbold rebuilding "challenge".

Don't forget skirmish raids and scaled instances. Sadly skirmish raids seem to have died down for some reason, I still need many marks/medallions and I'd rather do the skraid than solo them.

2) The upcoming single-boss "raids". Let me be clear: Keep it simple! Your motivation to build up an intense single-boss lair encounter failed uttermost with Draigoch being bugged as hell and broken still today. Keep it simple, keep it safe.

And don't be too difficult like Watcher was. That required a long time to gear up, then a long time to learn the fights, and casual players really were locked out of doing that completely.

What in the name of Elbereth has Erebor and the Lonely Mouintain to do with Riders of Rohan????

Not much, but why does it have to be Rohan? You say you want Rohan and that's fair, but remember that players have been asking for Erebor and other stuff from The Hobbit for a few years now, other players have been predicting Turbine would be foolish if they didn't have any Hobbit movie tie in, etc.

[Elfheart]

Not very excited about the 3 mans only because I've always had trouble getting into 3 mans with my burglar main. Most of my unfinished deeds are in 3 man instances. I'm more excited for the raids. I love lair raids that can be completed in one sitting. The super long raids that take multiple gaming sessions to complete usually end in me never seeing the complete raid.

[Vulcan583]

Are the raids like turtle and draig where there are no trash pulls? Or is it like a big raid that is split into 3 parts?

[Ardineck]

I'm happy that in this case, Turbine has given us some forewarning...one of the things promised again and again to us since F2P was introduced. Thank you for giving us an update including at least a general timeframe. I, for one, am okay with delays when updates give us some hopeful reasons to wait. Thanks for that.

As for the updates, I'm glad there will be a tie in, but I want landscape, too...not just instances. I want those areas developed and I fear that they are getting this treatment and will be overlooked. Is that the case? I won't hold my breath for that information, though I'd like to at least hear its on some kind of road map.

[Link64]

Just throwing my two coppers in here and forgive me if someone already made this point as I have not had the time or patience to read every single response to this post. From what I have read, there are people upset with the concept of three single boss raids. It may be well to remember that Barad Guldur was in essence, three single boss raids. Granted, you had to do them in order but they still each had their own instance (that is to say, you entered doors after each boss that took you to a new area), their own trash mobs, and one boss fight each.

Many here are leaping to the conclusion that these new raids are "Lair Raids" a la the Turtle or Watcher or Draigoch. While it's true that nothing Turbine has said excludes that possibility, they have also said nothing that confirms it. Something described as a single boss raid could have trash mobs or it might not. Personally I would like to see one of the raids be a lair raid but with some pre-fight mechanics like we saw in Draigoch. It would be interesting if one of them had a gauntlet fight like the first wing of BG. At least one, in my opinion, must have traditional (albeit with new mechanics and such) trash mob pulls leading to the boss. Three single boss raids all with trash pulls would be fine too but three lair raids with no trash is just gonna make people angry and the hardcore raiders will find another game to invest in if they haven't already.

[lioheart]

HEY DRAMA LAMAS, GUESS WHAT?
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOUR QUITTING
YOUR STILL HERE AFTER SAYING IT FOR THE PAST 3 X PACS


whatever happened to patience and moderation? Im sure for any casual player there is more than enough content to last you through to the next instance cluster/update.

and there's always the ettenmoors.... constant action always!

LoL what lendas said.
You are still playing, so why complain saying that you have given up hope when you still play?
Why does every think so badly.
Smaug fight, i guarantee that it won't be in a giant cave like draigoch since he died outside. The fight maybe outside with players killing him and whatever.
The other 2 raids, ppl think! this can actually be a taste/test of what the Battle of the Hornburg is going to be. To play it safe, they may even be making raid with the taste of Helms Deep.
Battle of Erebor, don't this sounds like a seige similar to what Helms Deep is going to be?
Now here is the question: Would you rather do a raid with ridiculous amount of bugs to the point where it ain't fun or wait a bit longer for bug to not happen a lot and still have fun?-and- We waited 9 months for Rohan to come, why can't you wait for another 3 months? There is always something to turn to you know, it's call real life and other games.

Regardless, at least we got something to do while we wait for the raids.
Hopefully there well be a new armor set specifically rewarded by the 3 mans. And Hopefully there are new currencies to use for new things say steed cos? (off-topic)

[BigLotroFan]

Aside from it being partially delayed it's pretty much the same thing we got for Isengard. Three 3-mans, one 6-man and a multi-wing raid with one boss at the end of each wing (not counting Draigoch).

I'm pretty excited that we'll get to see the Lonely Mountain! I just wish we'd get a region for the area at some point but my feeling is this is the extend they'll handle "side areas". As others have said though, I hope this does not impact the updates we normally get in the first half of the year.