Forced emotes - worse than ever

[Dotlbeme]

We are currently having discussions about how to address this issue on a global scale. However, in the meantime I can add these hotspots so you'll have a few safe places for U10.

Slippery slope time. Don't give in! They won't be happy until the whole game is Serious Business. Next it will be Weathertop, then they will want the whole of Rivendell. Don't be surprised if U13 has the Party Tree off limits.

Hands off the Shire!

--Mischievious Hobbit

(No I am not 100% serious but you get the drift.)

[Scarycrow]

Slippery slope time. Don't give in to terrorists. They won't be happy until the whole game is Serious Business. Next it will be Weathertop, then they will want the whole of Rivendell. Don't be surprised if U13 has the Party Tree off limits.

Haha true, but your argument about the slippery slope that comes with giving in is also a slippery slope argument! :P

[Rampagingdeath]

Haha true, but your argument about the slippery slope that comes with giving in is also a slippery slope argument! :P

They are right though, the crowds that have been going postal on the forum are a small but loud minority, they break the rules by starting new threads when threads already exist, they derail every thread they can and try and start another FE flame war but that's just overlooked, they won't stop until they get their way and their way only and you can bet your life that once they get what they wan't another game breaking 'im not paying anymore' December 21st will come along.

[Celestrata]

Haha true, but your argument about the slippery slope that comes with giving in is also a slippery slope argument! :P

[Anwiga]

Slippery slope time. Don't give in to terrorists. They won't be happy until the whole game is Serious Business. Next it will be Weathertop, then they will want the whole of Rivendell. Don't be surprised if U13 has the Party Tree off limits.

Hands off the Shire!

--Mischievious Hobbit

(No I am not 100% serious but you get the drift.)

I think my fishing-/music mode maniac-chicken head & cloak guardian just fell in love with you. Be aware, she caries a lot Saffron's lipstick.

(translation: I was just going to say that but you beat me to it).

[manstan]

Slippery slope time. Don't give in to terrorists. They won't be happy until the whole game is Serious Business. Next it will be Weathertop, then they will want the whole of Rivendell. Don't be surprised if U13 has the Party Tree off limits.

Hands off the Shire!

--Mischievious Hobbit

(No I am not 100% serious but you get the drift.)

Yes we know "the sky is falling the, sky is falling".

Or is it more of a "hey, that isn't want I want so it's wrong?

"They are right though, the crowds that have been going postal on the forum are a small but loud minority, they break the rules by starting new threads when threads already exist, they derail every thread they can and try and start another FE flame war but that's just overlooked, they won't stop until they get their way and their way only and you can bet your life that once they get what they wan't another game breaking 'im not paying anymore' December 21st will come along." Rampagingdeath

Wrong.

[Apparently]

Y'know, I went to a concert in real life once, and there were people there whose only purpose was to get drunk and try to pick up women.

Thanks to this thread, I now know that the proper way to deal with people who refuse to experience life the way I prefer to do it is to rant to a higher authority until those other "griefers" have their life privileges revoked. Good to know! I'm going to a club tonight, and will be sure to bring the pitchforks and torches. Once again, the Lotro forum community comes through.

[maxjenius]

Y'know, I went to a concert in real life once, and there were people there whose only purpose was to get drunk and try to pick up women.

Thanks to this thread, I now know that the proper way to deal with people who refuse to experience life the way I prefer to do it is to rant to a higher authority until those other "griefers" have their life privileges revoked. Good to know! I'm going to a club tonight, and will be sure to bring the pitchforks and torches. Once again, the Lotro forum community comes through.

If this is yet another attempt to analogize in-game activities to superficially similar rel-life activities, it's as successful as all previous such attempts, i.e., not at all.

[Summer_Beor]

Slippery slope time. Don't give in! They won't be happy until the whole game is Serious Business. Next it will be Weathertop, then they will want the whole of Rivendell. Don't be surprised if U13 has the Party Tree off limits.

Hands off the Shire!

--Mischievious Hobbit

(No I am not 100% serious but you get the drift.)

Actually, adding Weathertop would be great, because what one player was able to do at last year's Weatherstock without repercussion (with a promise to return this upcoming year) is completely bogus. I am glad the devs are discussing it and if they want hard evidence of how individuals have used these to target roleplayers, there is plenty. It would not be an issue if it was a one-time thing, but there has been ongoing harassment by a trolling subset of players since these items came out.

Do not give in to trolls.

[Rampagingdeath]

If this is yet another attempt to analogize in-game activities to superficially similar rel-life activities, it's as successful as all previous such attempts, i.e., not at all.

Just like the people that equate being hit with a black silk glove to be the same being punched in the face in the street and knocked over? nice to see that we agree that they are talking a lot of hot air then.

[Anwiga]

"They are right though, the crowds that have been going postal on the forum are a small but loud minority, they break the rules by starting new threads when threads already exist, they derail every thread they can and try and start another FE flame war but that's just overlooked, they won't stop until they get their way and their way only and you can bet your life that once they get what they wan't another game breaking 'im not paying anymore' December 21st will come along." Rampagingdeath

Wrong.

I like how you don't even bother defending your position anymore.
I'm gonna be more like you.

manstan
Wrong.

[Rampagingdeath]

Yes we know "the sky is falling the, sky is falling".

Or is it more of a "hey, that isn't want I want so it's wrong?

"They are right though, the crowds that have been going postal on the forum are a small but loud minority, they break the rules by starting new threads when threads already exist, they derail every thread they can and try and start another FE flame war but that's just overlooked, they won't stop until they get their way and their way only and you can bet your life that once they get what they wan't another game breaking 'im not paying anymore' December 21st will come along." Rampagingdeath

Wrong.

Want to place a wager on that?

[Kylani]

Y'know, I went to a concert in real life once, and there were people there whose only purpose was to get drunk and try to pick up women.

Thanks to this thread, I now know that the proper way to deal with people who refuse to experience life the way I prefer to do it is to rant to a higher authority until those other "griefers" have their life privileges revoked. Good to know! I'm going to a club tonight, and will be sure to bring the pitchforks and torches. Once again, the Lotro forum community comes through.

I am so glad most of the men I know would deck and throw out a drunken slob out if he harrassed a woman trying to relax with friends at a bar. Trying to meet women is one thing. Being obnoxious and forcing your drunken company on someone who isn't interested fits right in with forced emotes in my book.

[Rampagingdeath]

Or is it more of a "hey, that isn't want I want so it's wrong?.

Well done you've just described perfectly what all the people screeching about a few harmless emotes ingame (depending on your point of view - yes I understand that) think, funny how people can jsutify double standards when it suits isn't it?

[Laire]

We are currently having discussions about how to address this issue on a global scale. However, in the meantime I can add these hotspots so you'll have a few safe places for U10.

Global scale would likely be a toggle for those who wish not to participate/be subject to forced emotes. I could not imagine the tech for it, though. If it exists, it would likely be the best option. Those who like emotes can have it off, those who hate them can have it on.

As a 'request for serious business' spot, the interior of the Pony would be my request.

When someone is /sitting and someone pops a forced emote, it makes you stand to do it and that, while fine once or twice, can sometimes happen *twenty times* by the same individual every 2-5 minutes (depending on what skill they use). For those unaware of how long a RP can last, someone can easily be in that space to experience every single one. And it has happened to me. It's not -serious-, but it is definitely incredibly annoying.

The hyperbole from both sides is silly, though.

Thanks for looking into it, Scary.

[maxjenius]

Well done you've just described perfectly what all the people screeching about a few harmless emotes ingame (depending on your point of view - yes I understand that) think, funny how people can jsutify double standards when it suits isn't it?

People calling for an opt out toggle which allows the user to advance the deed are not engaging in any kind of double standard. With that kind of toggle, everyone gets what they want unless what you want is the ability to annoy other players with festival pranks and forced emote skills.

[JeauxLOTR]

One More Time: Make the Training Dummy a valid target for the gag emotes.

Many times when I have been a target the 'user' has sent out a thanks. People want to use up their supply to get the pemanent version. I don't think random toons would be hit with the emote when people have it as a permanent emote...........that's what friends in raids are for ;-)

[natefu]

Well done you've just described perfectly what all the people screeching about a few harmless emotes ingame (depending on your point of view - yes I understand that) think, funny how people can jsutify double standards when it suits isn't it?

I think when people feel strongly enough about something they often lose the perspective needed to identify a double standard.

I like FE's. I think it's amusing to be hit by them occasionally and I think it may act as a great way for some people, in some situations, to have some minor catharsis without it boiling over. (I'm not advocating such, I think that's just how it plays out)

However, I don't like griefing and I can understand how the people wishing for FE's to end either view them as such, or have had (are having?) experiences where they were the victims of that griefing. This could also be an argument against FE's because they take away the personal liberty of having control over your character.

Ultimately, the rightness of taking away 'something' because it can be abused is an argument that predates video games by a longshot. If anyone here can answer the question of how you can make individuals take on the personal ability to not abuse power given to them... well then we really don't need to take that Ring to Mordor

[Rampagingdeath]

People calling for an opt out toggle which allows the user to advance the deed are not engaging in any kind of double standard. With that kind of toggle, everyone gets what they want unless what you want is the ability to annoy other players with festival pranks and forced emote skills.

Max, I've said more times than I can remember an opt out for people who want it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, they can have it with my best wishes and I hope that then makes them happy but I objected to someone making the assumption that someone who doesn't share their opinion are taking the route of 'It's wrong because I don't want it' when that exactly what they've been doing for 2 years. That to me is a huge double standard and the small part of my brain marked 'gobs**te' kicks in.

EDIT: totally off topic but I've just read about Connecticut and don't really feel like debating FE's anymore, I'll log off forum for the night, be safe all and go and hug someone special, as we've seen today - you can never guarantee they'll always be there.

[natefu]

People calling for an opt out toggle which allows the user to advance the deed are not engaging in any kind of double standard. With that kind of toggle, everyone gets what they want unless what you want is the ability to annoy other players with festival pranks and forced emote skills.

Why can't the toggle place the serious business buff on you? Would there be problems with that? Just another ability everyone gets handed, which is toggled via the settings upon login and not a skill activation.

Maybe that's been suggested though

[UrsaMinor]

Why can't the toggle place the serious business buff on you? Would there be problems with that? Just another ability everyone gets handed, which is toggled vial the settings upon login and not a skill activation.

Maybe that's been suggested though

It has, but I don't think enough is known about Serious Business. Does it prevent whoever has the debuff from using certain emotes, or does it prevent someone else from using emotes on them? I never experimented; maybe with the added outdoor Serious Business areas someone can see if, while standing just outside an SB zone, they can still use one of the SB-blocked emotes on someone inside the zone. If they can, then adding the SB buff won't help the target.

[maxjenius]

Max, I've said more times than I can remember an opt out for people who want it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, they can have it with my best wishes and I hope that then makes them happy but I objected to someone making the assumption that someone who doesn't share their opinion are taking the route of 'It's wrong because I don't want it' when that exactly what they've been doing for 2 years. That to me is a huge double standard and the small part of my brain marked 'gobs**te' kicks in.

I agree that there are silly, irrational statements and double standards espoused by those on both sides of the issue.

[natefu]

It has, but I don't think enough is known about Serious Business. Does it prevent whoever has the debuff from using certain emotes, or does it prevent someone else from using emotes on them? I never experimented; maybe with the added outdoor Serious Business areas someone can see if, while standing just outside an SB zone, they can still use one of the SB-blocked emotes on someone inside the zone. If they can, then adding the SB buff won't help the target.

That's an interesting point you raise! I'll have to test it out myself to see. Oh well, you're all rather intelligent people. I'm sure something will be figured out

[Pdt_the_Confused]

Y'know, I went to a concert in real life once, and there were people there whose only purpose was to get drunk and try to pick up women.

Thanks to this thread, I now know that the proper way to deal with people who refuse to experience life the way I prefer to do it is to rant to a higher authority until those other "griefers" have their life privileges revoked. Good to know! I'm going to a club tonight, and will be sure to bring the pitchforks and torches. Once again, the Lotro forum community comes through.

I went to a concert once, well known country band at a state fair event. We were not allowed to stand, dance, nothing (yes, there was room). If we tried to go to the bathroom we got a light shined into our eyes.
We wanted a country concert, not a night at the theater being treated like 10 year olds.

Sad but true event.

People go to places and events for reasons. Most know what to expect behavior to be like there.
Bars and clubs, you expect someone to try to pick someone up.
Parties can range from kids birthdays to college frat to dinner parties. All with different expectations of likely behavior.
Shows can range from Opera to comedy to concerts - and concerts can range from orchestral black tie to ones you will get a contact high just from being in the room.

They each have a minimum standard for behavior. And yes, someone not meeting that standard would get thrown out. But you must also look at acceptable behavior in public.


One of the reasons we do not have collision of characters is that it can (and has in other games) be used for griefing. Imagine several figures blocking a doorway to the craft hall, vault, or ah?
One of the reasons CC DR (diminishing returns) was enacted in the moors, was that it is not -normally- nice to take away control of another's character. Though it still happens, it is not nearly as bad as it first was. Being perma stunned or perma rooted in place through death wasn't and isn't fun, but at least now if its all the way through, its usually because its over quickly. lol

Now, how to apply that to other things. Do we want to remove participatory animations (including throwing snowballs in a snowball fight) and make you sit in your seat and not be able to do things you expected to be able to do at the concert? Or do we insist that it is a party and the drink till you get drunk and getting your head shaved by whoever didn't pass out yet is the norm.

yeah, both samples are extremes. both are unwanted in most situations.

"Serious business" markers are the first step. designated areas where, yeah its ok to throw fruit and petals and /dance and /faint, but not to force others to do the dancing or falling down.

The second step, could be a "On serious business" flag for individuals to check if they want or need. They couldn't be identified as targets for the "funny business" items and skills, they could SEE others getting hit / falling down / whatever, but not be forced to participate NOR be able to use them themselves (gunna have to turn it off to use those kegs in the kinhouse!).

Personal flag I might use it on timed quests or crafting (things where it would be bothersome to be interrupted at), but that is about it. (that is just me personally, you may have other ideas, as might I in time)

These "funny business" things would have to be separated in 2. Things that effect the other more than just visually and things that don't. The markers would effect the first, the individual flag would effect both.

You have to find the right path, and the landscape changes as you go. It is going to be "tricksey business" to get it just right. Especially if you add in all the variables I might have forgotten (as originally I forgot about the kegs and various housing items that have a clicky function.)

[whheydt]

We are currently having discussions about how to address this issue on a global scale. However, in the meantime I can add these hotspots so you'll have a few safe places for U10.

While I'm glad to see an "official word" that the problem is being discussed, I would point out that you've had TWO YEARS to discuss it. It must be quite a debate.

Almost exactly a year ago, I started a thread pointing out that the problem had been extant for over a year by then and there wasn't even a hint that anything was even being thought about. So, from my perspective, it has taken you (collectively) a full year from that point to admit that the problem exists and you're (collectively) "discussing" what to do about it.

May I suggest that those that use (and abuse) forced emotes have had their fun and that the forced emotes be disabled UNTIL a final solution is put in place? If the fix takes less than two years, then those that like forced emotes will have had more time with them unrestricted than those that don't like them will have had being unmolested by them.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer