Update 9 Developer Diary - Instance Cluster Feedback

[Migtus]

Yes, the final boss of Barad Guldur has a bug - if you can't race through his first phase within 30~ seconds, the boss will fly up and heal to full health. At least, that's what it did when I ran it last, and I haven't heard news of any changes. I also can't say whether this continues into the later phases....something that would mostly effect the ability to beat challenge mode.

[Troutdude]

Can someone please tell me turbine point cost of instance hub? Also does this price include the second half of the hub to be released next year?

Ditto this - Celestra, please provide an answer to the scope of the instances we' paying for. we now know the cost of the Instance Pack, as U9 went live today and the instances are now in the store. But only the 3 3-man instances are listed in the store text description, and almost 1,500TP seems way too steep for half an instance pack. If I buy this with TP, will the other half of the instance pack be included when it releases in february?

Thanks much

[Urwendil]

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Just a humble tip to workaround the -admittedly badly coloured- diary page for some rest to our eyes: Select All (Ctrl + A) and the fg/bg colours are reversed, and you can read it a bit more easily...
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[Aedfrith]

Something I have already reported as a bug. Attacks from monsters doing tactical damage are way out of sync on tier 2. We ran SG tier 1 and the trash was doing 1.5k normal hits, then 3k crits. Fair enough. Easy enough clear.

In SG tier 2 the trash's normal hit on a HEAVY was 6k. The crits are 8k - on light armours, nearer 9k, which can one-shot people. 2 pulls, 3 wipes.

This is trash - NOT bosses. I think it may be the same problem as Deep-Way where the ghash-hai do fire damage and hit for only slightly lesser amounts - it all points to tactical damage scaling.

Please investigate.

[Lestache]

Something I have already reported as a bug. Attacks from monsters doing tactical damage are way out of sync on tier 2. We ran SG tier 1 and the trash was doing 1.5k normal hits, then 3k crits. Fair enough. Easy enough clear.

In SG tier 2 the trash's normal hit on a HEAVY was 6k. The crits are 8k - on light armours, nearer 9k, which can one-shot people. 2 pulls, 3 wipes.

This is trash - NOT bosses. I think it may be the same problem as Deep-Way where the ghash-hai do fire damage and hit for only slightly lesser amounts - it all points to tactical damage scaling.

Please investigate.

The Guards and Brutes each have 3 tiers worth of corruptions on them. Remove the corruptions, and the damage goes way down.

[0987654321]

The Guards and Brutes each have 3 tiers worth of corruptions on them. Remove the corruptions, and the damage goes way down.

pretty much this. you remove the 3 tiers of corruptions and they hit like wet noodles on tanks.

[Kaius]

So how will this work? We are going to meet Gimli and co, but then meet them again when we arrive at the various instances through the book quests?!

The storyline really is falling apart isn't it, and it was this games strongest asset not so long ago. It seamlessly fit into the books, now it steps all over them in a vain attempt to correlate it into every aspect of the book.

I hope you are modifying the book quests to reflect these new instances.

The value of the storyline is the quality of the writing, not on trying to micromanage details to provide a "realistic" timeline for travelling during the book. It should be OBVIOUS that we want to visit all parts of Middle Earth, not merely those parts we can manage to get to during downtime from the epic story. Blind enforcement of realism would be the real tragedy.

[Aohh]

The value of the storyline is the quality of the writing, not on trying to micromanage details to provide a "realistic" timeline for travelling during the book. It should be OBVIOUS that we want to visit all parts of Middle Earth, not merely those parts we can manage to get to during downtime from the epic story. Blind enforcement of realism would be the real tragedy.

Very well said. Nothing to add.

[Keidnard]

I think its sad, that the new instances were just silently added to the list..

there is no quest-chain connecting or explaining them (there are even no quests inside the instances..)

also it would have been great if you had to explore the instances first, before you can teleport there (like the "in their absence"-instances)

(btw: swordhall of dol guldur hard mode tier 2 is rediculous and somehow impossibile with some classes^^)

[Faenyl]

yes there actually is a quest for those instances (as already mentioned in a german section) starting at gandalf in the prancing pony and porting you to elrond

it's called 'the road to erebor' lvl requirement 1

[DutchEZmoder]

Just my 2 cents:

-Loot is awful, it's not fun to do an instance and only get bounties.
-Reduce the amount of silver from instances, currently with open tapping everyone in the fellow get 80 silver per mob... 240 silver per mob in a 3 man group. It's a bit much.

I haven't tried all instances since i was disappointed by the loot, so i don't know much about the ones i didn't do.

[Elrantiri]

I like the new 3 mans, they're not too hard but still has some challenging elements in them that requires a bit of tactics and being aware of what is going on.

I agree with DutchEZmoder, the amount of bounties/silver per run is just ridiculous, especially considering the low drop rate on good items. Obviously the effect will not be as large as the Harwick farm raids, but I still see inflation happening because of this.´

I think its sad, that the new instances were just silently added to the list..

there is no quest-chain connecting or explaining them (there are even no quests inside the instances..)

also it would have been great if you had to explore the instances first, before you can teleport there (like the "in their absence"-instances)

(btw: swordhall of dol guldur hard mode tier 2 is rediculous and somehow impossibile with some classes^^)

I agree, there should be some introduction to the new instances.
Requiring discovery simply will not work however, as the instances are available from lvl 20 and Mirkwood isnt really available before lvl 55-60 and Misty Mountains before lvl 30-40.

[Taisia]

i think 3player-instance are really hard on t2 for some class combinations.. its ok for a clear guardian-bard-hunter combination, but for classes like captain or loremaster its really problematic.. why not 4player-instances to have better possibilities for support classes and make some game content available for all classes

[Faenyl]

yes there actually is a quest for those instances (as already mentioned in a german section) starting at gandalf in the prancing pony and porting you to elrond

it's called 'the road to erebor' lvl requirement 1

Every new player will probably pick it up when he is sent to Gandalf during the Quests for Volume I

@ elrantiri

[Faenyl]

@ Taisi
A lot of combinations do work, the typical healer-tank-dps-kombo is actually the worst case if you ask me.. quite often a lot of dmg is needed and a full healer not needed.

warden+lm+burglar did work for tier 2 including hardmodes in the new 3-man-instances

[Keidnard]

i think 3player-instance are really hard on t2 for some class combinations.. its ok for a clear guardian-bard-hunter combination, but for classes like captain or loremaster its really problematic.. why not 4player-instances to have better possibilities for support classes and make some game content available for all classes

@ Taisi
A lot of combinations do work, the typical healer-tank-dps-kombo is actually the worst case if you ask me.. quite often a lot of dmg is needed and a full healer not needed.

warden+lm+burglar did work for tier 2 including hardmodes in the new 3-man-instances

i would agree to Taisia.. as a captain i got some real problems finding groups for t2... t1 is no problem.. but for t2 i just dont heal enough for beeing the main healer over a minstrel or runemaster, nor can i tank that efficient than a guardian or warden can.. at last for taking the dps part, most people rather take a champion or hunter .. so im afraid i wont get the possibility to play hardmode that fast, though i really would like to

[No_Mercy69]

I ran Goblin town 3 man on tier 2 with a Tank, Hunter, Mini combo

The wounds from the goblin sneaks are crazy, 2800k ( close to it ) morale bleed every 2 sec - seems a bit much but we got through all this fine quite a number of times.

We tried the challenge mode a good 15 - 20 times and didn't even get close and believe me we were getting quite efficient by the 15th run lol

I tried all out healing and we didnt have enough DPS to get any where near close,
I ( mini )tried going full DPS and we all used the store bought 20sec morale pots as well as normal pots, we just got owned by the little ads on the second boss and our AOE wasnt enough to drop them before they dropped us squishys

Im going to call it near impossible with the group make up we had as we didnt get even close and we know how to play our classes well.

I thought the 3 mans were designed so that any 3 classes could venture in and with co ordination be able to complete. This is obviously not the case. I understand i can go full heals or harmony and get a RK/LM and a champ and probably beat this thing but what about the guardian? what about other classes that will not get invited because they don't have the DPS to do this.

I would like to see the timer extended or less adds or something to make this more completable with a wider variety of classes.

I like a good challenge but i dont like the fact that to run this on challenge mode you have to pick a perfect group of classes to get it done while other classes will surely miss out.


Cheers
Tha Doctor

[Elgaras]

Anyone else seeing a huge amount of item wear in these instances?

I've ran Seat of the Great Goblin on my warden easily on T1, but both times we've tried it on T2 my shield breaks during the final (so 3rd of 2 ) boss fight. Naturally that kinda hampers my ability to do any gambits....

Both times I was fully repaired before I entered the instance and never had this problem before in any instance/skirm (even the ones we've wiped lots), I've had item wear but never an instance I can't play through to the end without key items failing.

[Keidnard]

I like a good challenge but i dont like the fact that to run this on challenge mode you have to pick a perfect group of classes to get it done while other classes will surely miss out.

/signed

another thing is, that i dont like the presentation of the new instances.. no real quest-chain... no need to know where the instances entrances are.. new players really dont need to know about the world, just gandalf porting lvl-1-chars to rivendell.. the instances nearly got no quests nor special deeds (except that one in goblin town).. thats a weak presentation lacking the great lotro atmosphere! .. you did it well with "in their absence", but this time... i hope this is a "not final" state..

additionaly the instances got nothing to do with rohan, though i ordered a rohan instance cluster.. the concept was ok for instances like halls of night or inn of the forsaken, but for a "real addon" the presentation is kinda bad.. an addon should somehow connect .. atm its getting to chaotic.. like buying moria questpack gives you angmar instances and angmar questpack gives you moria instances.. or buying mirkwood quests but getting two new instances in the shire whilest you have to pay for the real mirkwood instances another time again .. how should a (new) customer understand this concept easily? (he has to buy rohan addon to get some of the misty mountain instances.. but for getting rohan instances he has to buy west rohan later somewhen..) ... east-rohan is great for questing and there would have been place for great and creative instances without horses..

east rohan questing was so very promiscious.. it felt like lotro was on a very good way .. but now its somehow disappointing there wont be an instance in eastern rohan :/ (well..or you will have to buy another area to get instances located in eastern rohan -.-)

why did you call this "east rohan instance cluster" and connect it to the addon? dont make the game that chaotic!.. imho you should just have given this cluster another name (anor-cluster or sth) and sold it seperately by TP..

[Solmyri]

My feedback is about the rewards:

At the current state of the game, best rewards(golden bracelets, golden stuff from instances) are impossible to get by skill, dedication and horrific amount of work. I come from raiding kinship where this instance cluster is childs play to us. I have been in allmost 10 BG t2c runs, in many t2c SG runs and infinite-1 amount of WP AND SH t2c runs. During these runs I have seen 3-4 golden drops to our kin. We can do these runs 1000 times more, but even then there will be 1-2 persons with the luck of a donald duck who will never ever see a golden drop in their lootlist. And this is wrong. It is wrong because you dont get loot for beating the hardest content ingame, you get loot because you are lucky.

As it used to be with armor, it should be with these new gold drops. From on level raid final boss t2c you get 1-2 coins you share with masterloot to worthy players in your kin. These coins then would be bartered in for exchange to the new golden stuff.

Now it is same with the bracelet recepies. Dropping from random landscape mob with very very low drop rate. The most silly and stubid idea yet seen from Turbine. You actually drove raiding kinships from raiding to kill million landscape mobs. I have been in countless of mob killing trains, been soloing them for hour and hours in the darkness of night, but without luck. Then i hear some random person looted 2 within same minute. And he just began grinding. Again I can kill whole Mordor's, Rhun's and Haradrim's armies twice alone and not get the recepie.

There is also side-effect of recepie grinding. Seen some people use simple bots to farm. Reported few of them, Turbine didnt care a single flying f***.

recepie as a loot is a silly in itself. You must crit the recepie for it to be useful. So infact when you finally loot a recepie, you only win a chance to win. It is like in that one tv show. This guy does heaven and earth to win the show, and the price is to get lottery tickets worth 50k €. Story tells he only won like 200€ in that lottery.

I am myself in dead end. I simply want to have the best possible gear to help my kin in future raids, but I have no possible way to obtain it. I tried skill, I tried dedication. Im bored of grinding, bored of the game. Best rewards should come from raids, and there is a good reasons for it.

Turbine, Gondor calls for aid.

[Glorborn]

Turbine, Gondor calls for aid.

I hear ya.

Amazing post.

[UwS-Harledir]

+ rep
problem is one simple thing:

Turbine is catering for the masses - and the masses want an easy, simple game - where you get rewards for scratching your behind. That is why the game has been dumbed down further and further and further. Of course it is being sold as improvements...

and if anyone even slightly notes that things are too easy... then you are bombared on the forums for being an elitist idiot.

[Markoff]

My feedback is about the rewards:

At the current state of the game, best rewards(golden bracelets, golden stuff from instances) are impossible to get by skill, dedication and horrific amount of work. I come from raiding kinship where this instance cluster is childs play to us. I have been in allmost 10 BG t2c runs, in many t2c SG runs and infinite-1 amount of WP AND SH t2c runs. During these runs I have seen 3-4 golden drops to our kin. We can do these runs 1000 times more, but even then there will be 1-2 persons with the luck of a donald duck who will never ever see a golden drop in their lootlist. And this is wrong. It is wrong because you dont get loot for beating the hardest content ingame, you get loot because you are lucky.

As it used to be with armor, it should be with these new gold drops. From on level raid final boss t2c you get 1-2 coins you share with masterloot to worthy players in your kin. These coins then would be bartered in for exchange to the new golden stuff.

Now it is same with the bracelet recepies. Dropping from random landscape mob with very very low drop rate. The most silly and stubid idea yet seen from Turbine. You actually drove raiding kinships from raiding to kill million landscape mobs. I have been in countless of mob killing trains, been soloing them for hour and hours in the darkness of night, but without luck. Then i hear some random person looted 2 within same minute. And he just began grinding. Again I can kill whole Mordor's, Rhun's and Haradrim's armies twice alone and not get the recepie. Not to mention the side-effects of allready seen bot usage for recepie hunt. Reported few of them, Turbine didnt care a single flying f***.

recepie as a loot is a silly in itself. You must crit the recepie for it to be useful. So infact when you finally loot a recepie, you only win a chance to win. It is like in that one tv show. This guy does heaven and earth to win the show, and the price is to get lottery tickets worth 50k €. Story tells he only won like 200€ in that lottery.

I am myself in dead end. I simply want to have the best possible gear to help my kin in future raids, but I have no possible way to obtain it. I tried skill, I tried dedication. Im bored of grinding, bored of the game. Best rewards should come from raids, and there is a good reasons for it.

Turbine, Gondor calls for aid.

Took the words right out of my keyboard. I'll add my personal experience with the new system.

Having farmed BG really, not very much, i found myself with 2 of the gold cappy shields. (no, i use halberd, diddnt even want one really) 3 other cappies that farmed it more than me, one probably double the runs, have not got this gold item at all. Why is the gold loot not BoE? to allow trading when the 'lucky' people get several of the same item. Im betting on getting a 3rd shield before the other poor cappies i know get one. In RoI you had a choice as to who got the Gold shinies from the raid. Now we have no choice, and no way of rewarding unlucky people.

Yes, i know you can still do this for the non-gold items, but symbols and crystals drop quite often (or did when durchest faceroll was deemed acceptable) The only rare loot in this game is gold drops, and due to the BoA nature of them, i could end up with 10 before somewhat less lucky people get the same item.

This does not encourage people to run instances for that chance at a good drop... in terms of distribution of loot the new system is too random, making it very unfair, and a step backwards from previous systems that would allow you to mitigate the inherent unfairness of a random system by handing out loot via master loot.

Edit - Only constructive feedback is good, so in an attempt to provide some i'll state that i actually quite like many aspects of the new loot system. Drop rates needed tweaking in some areas, and Rockx has and continues to look at these issues and tweak stuff. I do dislike the gold recipe stuff thats been added, i tend to think the best gear should come from raids but thats an opinion not shared by a lot of people. However I dont think anyone will disagree that its unfair for one person run BG under 10 times and get 2 gold drops, only to be unable to give one of them to a friend that has run the instance 30+ times. Make the gold loot BoE.

[Equendil]

I ran Goblin town 3 man on tier 2 with a Tank, Hunter, Mini combo

The wounds from the goblin sneaks are crazy, 2800k ( close to it ) morale bleed every 2 sec - seems a bit much but we got through all this fine quite a number of times.

We tried the challenge mode a good 15 - 20 times and didn't even get close and believe me we were getting quite efficient by the 15th run lol

I tried all out healing and we didnt have enough DPS to get any where near close,
I ( mini )tried going full DPS and we all used the store bought 20sec morale pots as well as normal pots, we just got owned by the little ads on the second boss and our AOE wasnt enough to drop them before they dropped us squishys

Im going to call it near impossible with the group make up we had as we didnt get even close and we know how to play our classes well.

It's actually very doable with that setup, and quite frankly most setups, without resorting to store consumables or other desperate measures. If you weren't anywhere near close, the hunter needs to spend some time with a training dummy and work on his skill 'rotation' (and possibly choice of traits...). Maybe you need to do better at keeping buffs up, maybe the tank needs to focus less on tanking and more on taking the goblins down, maybe you all need better gear or gear more suitable to the task at hand (it's a dps race!). Maybe you need to rethink what you're doing there. The bodyguards at the beginning don't get tanked, they get nuked dead. The little bogarts ? The hunter should already be raining death onto them before they even get their first hit in. When the wargs come, one AOE taunt, Fellowship's Heart, back to the goblin. Make everything count.

[Solmyri]

Ill continue my previous post with personal experiences about the current loot:

I did continue to grind bracelet recipes in hopes to get 1. I did 2-8h shifts every day in the fields of sutcrofts instance. I had a mad drive in me to get the recepie. I was not discouraged when i saw many people get 2-3 recepies with alot less work. infact the most lucky ones would have gotten about ~15 recepies with the work i did in the fields. But i knew i would get 1 if i worked hard enough. And so i did. My character is a champ. I finally looted an agility bracelet recepie. This got me to a step 1 in a 3-step progression for the bracelet.

So there i was with agility recepie, but as a champion I needed might recepie. Obvious route was to trade it with my kinship members who had a might recepie drop. But it turned out they all got either agility/vitality/will recepies, but not might. So i went to the global channel in hopes to trade my recepie with other person in same situation. I soon noticed there were shortage of might recepies in my server. Most of the trade requests were agility/vitality/will for might recepie. So i figured out if I make the trade request in the channel in a steady interval(1h), people will start to remember if they want to trade might recepie for agility, i am the man to talk to. I continued to grind while i was waiting for a trade to happen. And sure enough, few days later without advertising in global channel at that moment, Burglar with might recepie wanted to trade with me. So we traded. step 2 done.

I had 1 more step to go, to craft the recepie and hope for critical success for a golden bracelet. I dont have a jeweller myself, so i had to ask a favour from my kinship. So we organized all bracelet recepies we had to 1 person, who used all the crafting critical chance boosts and stuff, and crafted all the recepies in one go. We had 3 recepies in total. 1 failed. It was my recepie.

Work extremely hard to win a chance to trade your recepie to right recepie to get a chance to have critical success at the recepie to get a bracelet...

As of today the grind for recepies was shutdown with the latest update. What I gather, the only chance now is to get lucky in crafting instance. Lucky. So I cannot do another 50h of grinding for another recepie. For the first time I have completely forsaken my hope.