Update 9 Loot

[Omen_Kaizer]

Thanks for the response again RockX! I hope the Fornost thing wouldn't take an unreasonable amount of work.

Have you decided whether or not drops from U10 will be a step up in terms of item level? If so then making item level 96 teals drop from Fornost probably would be less enticing than having those teals drop at this current time.

My question here is, are the symbols in BG dropping off of trash? I've seen people spamming for "BG Farming runs" in Elendilmir's GLFF, and I was a little confused b/c I expected only bosses would have a chance to drop symbols, and killing bosses locks you until reset. But 12 symbols dropping in a single run sounds more like trash drops to me, unless they cleared fully and got multiple symbols off each boss.

Also, I've yet to see whether Sammath Gûl or any of the small fellowship instances are supposed to have a chance to drop one (I would hope at a minimum SG T2 Challenge would have a chance to drop one off of Gorothul, just like he did at 65). Can any one confirm yet?

They got multiple symbols off each boss
The trash don't drop symbols
There are no locks.
EDIT: In response to what you were quoting, there are no purples from BG, except for the world drops that all trash can possibly drop

I haven't heard of SG dropping symbols myself, but I've still got an open mind as I haven't run it enough to say yea or nay.

[Cwen01]

Is the golden guardian ring in the game at all? I found the cloak at Seat of the Great Goblin and someone else found it in Sammath Gûl so it's not tied to a specific cluster.

[Lynchpin13]

I fail to see how this is any better than the old roll/pass loot system, most people still get worthless trash like bounties and that's it and there's not even a guaranteed teal gear drop at the end of a T2 CM instance, not to mention it looks like T4-5 relics and small IXP runes share a loot table with teal gear pieces which is just stupid.

I hope not a lot of resources was spent on this "feature" if you can even call it that. It's getting a little annoying that every update Turbine tries to fix things that aren't broken and making them worse.

[Bels_illuminati]

Did a few more runs today.

All 3 of the new 3 mans for the first time, each one t2Challenge, overall loot for me was:
6(ish) bounties of course.
2 50k ixp runes
1 Relic removal scroll
1 Trash purple earring

Also did 3 BG runs on friday, loot:
1 Relic removal scroll
1 Crystal
Bounties

------------------

As a 3 man group (same for all 3) we didn't see a single bit of decent gear loot on any of the runs. Pretty disappointing considering by the old system we wold have had a guaranteed 3 teal drops, plus a lot more ixp and runes AND more extra purple stuff to choose from.

This new system needs to be a LOT more generous with the ixp and relics, remove all of it from the loot table and replace the minimum ixp with at least 300k runes (this woulda meant 600k across 3 hard modes for me, not over the top when you look at StH etc). The relics should only exist as at least tier 6 considering current levels. Receiving 1 tier 4 relic is sad considering level 65 3 mans drop what, 13 in one run?

Finally leave the chance at jewels etc on an individual basis, but please add a guaranteed nice random teal item to the end boss chest, to be rolled on by the group. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to receive no reward for completing hard modes. This system is basically fulfilling what it was originally aimed at preventing: a lack of rewards.

Finally there's a fellow warden in my kin who has done BG a few times and had 3 of the nice tank bracelets drop (teal). In the end he gave me one which was really nice of him, but this imbalance in the loot system has got to go away.

[Beorhtred]

no locks? that's surprising. is that tier 1 only or both tiers?

[Bels_illuminati]

no locks? that's surprising. is that tier 1 only or both tiers?

Well we did tier 1 on friday a few times and I'm not sure of the details on t2 as I haven't had time to get in on an official raid yet

Didn't take par tin the farming until Sapience confirmed the locks were WAI though, as it seemed a bit silly to me to be able to farm 'easy' symbols. Although it seems I have about the same luck as every other form of the game in that department!

[Elemiire]

I'd love to comment on the loot available from the U9 instances, but since I have not gotten a single thing from chests other than bounties, I'd probably lose my posting privileges if I wrote what I'm thinking.

This. I've done BG over 50 times by now and I just got a symbol.

Other than that, ALL I got was bounties. No relics, no runes, no gear, no nothing. Just bounties.

That's very discouraging.

[Forgotten_Legend]

concerning relics:

at level 85, having 9 tiers of relics to grind through nowadays... all level 85 instances should be dropping tier 7+ relics. this tier 5 and 6 stuff should be dropping in the level 65 instances, NOT the 75+ instances

[Lothirieth]

no locks? that's surprising. is that tier 1 only or both tiers?

No locks on T2 either.

[Beleg]

Got 5 Symbols and 2 Crystals on Durchest. That's pretty good for a 15-min run.

[interactii]

First Rock, thank you very much for being so responsive on itemization, its a really important part of the game for some of us, and I for one have really appreciated your comments.

My problem at the moment is how bad the chest situation is in Dungeons. Have you run this challenge? I did it with kin last night, and it was a very challenging run, but due to some strange chest rules, if you get challenge, you only get the challenge chest. The challenge chest doesn't drop anything for us (as you said its just legendaries, never seen one drop), and the other two chests you don't get. Is this by design? To make the hardest run have only one ending chest? As its currently laid out, you'd only get the regular chest if you fail challenge. I'd never be able to see the other loot from there!

[Castorix]

I think Durchest in BG is really an exploit with no locks on it and not bound loot.
Big kins do it in an infinite loop and got dozens of symbols, crystals, all blue loots
(once everyone got them, they make a huge amount of money at AH, a lot more than Harwick repeatable exploit !)

I don't understand at all the Turbine logic.

[Kingault]

I like that scrolls of relic removal finally drop in the game. It's about time.

I don't like that there is a most certain nerf to group drops. We used to get a lot more. And what's with T2C hardly dropping anything at all?

Relic removal scrolls did drop before. Got one from school/library.

Anyway, I'd talk about the loot, but it's already been said.

[Castorix]

I like that scrolls of relic removal finally drop in the game. It's about time.

As quoted above by Kingault, I also already got dozens of Relic removal scrolls by farming School/Lib (replaces Stat Tome in loot table of these instances)

[Lothirieth]

I think Durchest in BG is really an exploit with no locks on it and not bound loot.
Big kins do it in an infinite loop and got dozens of symbols, crystals, all blue loots
(once everyone got them, they make a huge amount of money at AH, a lot more than Harwick repeatable exploit !)

I don't understand at all the Turbine logic.

Pugs are perfectly capable of doing this too. And if a blue name says the no locks is intentional, it ain't an exploit no matter how much you wish it to be. But, you do realise this has caused the price of symbols to drop pretty dramatically? If any money is being made, it won't be for long as the market gets saturated and everyone and their mother has a 2nd ager. I don't quite get the logic of no locks so people can get loads of marks and medallions, but I certainly get the logic of making symbols easy to acquire. Means more people will need to buy relic removal scrolls in the store. Oh and relics happen to be on sale in the store as well of course! [/cynic]

[Lestache]

Pugs are perfectly capable of doing this too. And if a blue name says the no locks is intentional, it ain't an exploit no matter how much you wish it to be. But, you do realise this has caused the price of symbols to drop pretty dramatically? If any money is being made, it won't be for long as the market gets saturated and everyone and their mother has a 2nd ager. I don't quite get the logic of no locks so people can get loads of marks and medallions, but I certainly get the logic of making symbols easy to acquire. Means more people will need to buy relic removal scrolls in the store. Oh and relics happen to be on sale in the store as well of course! [/cynic]

I do wonder if the marks and medallions drop rates will be nerfed (perhaps by orders from on high rather than by RockX's own initiative).

After all, filling our barter wallets with marks and medallions means we don't even need to think about using the store for Empowerment and Delving Scrolls. On the other hand, loading us up with shiny new LIs and far fewer marks may push some people to the Store.

[Lothirieth]

I do wonder if the marks and medallions drop rates will be nerfed (perhaps by orders from on high rather than by RockX's own initiative).

After all, filling our barter wallets with marks and medallions means we don't even need to think about using the store for Empowerment and Delving Scrolls. On the other hand, loading us up with shiny new LIs and far fewer marks may push some people to the Store.

I've had the exact same thoughts.

.
.

Suppose I should add my feedback about the new system. It isn't perfect, but I think I like it better. It is frustrating to do 6 BG bosses and see one person win two symbols plus a crystal whilst all I got was some bounties and a relic (though a 3rd full run tonight broke my bad luck streak ), but overall the new loot system is benefiting my alliance greatly. It sure was nice that someone who already had the good caster ring from the Twins was able to trade it to me. The non-bind-on-equip gear is awesome. My alliance will be able to distribute loot fairly when it comes to more valuable stuff and this will make me much less pug allergic as I know something won't be ninjaed from me.

Whilst BG seems alright lootwise (at least you always get a bounty and relic it seems, though I'd argue T2 CM needs to be better than T1 Durchest farming), SG was pretty disappointing: not a single teal for anyone the whole run. That seems a bit off. Same for Iorbar's Peak T2.

[RockX]

The corpses of the bosses in Barad Guldur use the old roll/pass loot system (rather than the remote loot thingie). The devil is in the little details

Indeed it is!

[RockX]

Thanks for the response again RockX! I hope the Fornost thing wouldn't take an unreasonable amount of work.

Have you decided whether or not drops from U10 will be a step up in terms of item level? If so then making item level 96 teals drop from Fornost probably would be less enticing than having those teals drop at this current time.



They got multiple symbols off each boss
The trash don't drop symbols
There are no locks.
EDIT: In response to what you were quoting, there are no purples from BG, except for the world drops that all trash can possibly drop

I haven't heard of SG dropping symbols myself, but I've still got an open mind as I haven't run it enough to say yea or nay.

The specifics of the stats for the gear in U10 is still somewhat in the air.

SG won't drop symbols, as it's a 6-man.

[RockX]

First Rock, thank you very much for being so responsive on itemization, its a really important part of the game for some of us, and I for one have really appreciated your comments.

My problem at the moment is how bad the chest situation is in Dungeons. Have you run this challenge? I did it with kin last night, and it was a very challenging run, but due to some strange chest rules, if you get challenge, you only get the challenge chest. The challenge chest doesn't drop anything for us (as you said its just legendaries, never seen one drop), and the other two chests you don't get. Is this by design? To make the hardest run have only one ending chest? As its currently laid out, you'd only get the regular chest if you fail challenge. I'd never be able to see the other loot from there!

Aah yes, Dungeons. Thanks for reminding me of all the reasons why I didn't like running that instance on Live before-hand

I will look deeper into how the instance is giving its rewards, the chests in that space are definitely quite special and I apparently didn't take that into enough consideration. Thanks for the heads-up!

[RockX]

I've had the exact same thoughts.

.
.

Suppose I should add my feedback about the new system. It isn't perfect, but I think I like it better. It is frustrating to do 6 BG bosses and see one person win two symbols plus a crystal whilst all I got was some bounties and a relic (though a 3rd full run tonight broke my bad luck streak ), but overall the new loot system is benefiting my alliance greatly. It sure was nice that someone who already had the good caster ring from the Twins was able to trade it to me. The non-bind-on-equip gear is awesome. My alliance will be able to distribute loot fairly when it comes to more valuable stuff and this will make me much less pug allergic as I know something won't be ninjaed from me.

Whilst BG seems alright lootwise (at least you always get a bounty and relic it seems, though I'd argue T2 CM needs to be better than T1 Durchest farming), SG was pretty disappointing: not a single teal for anyone the whole run. That seems a bit off. Same for Iorbar's Peak T2.

Thank you for your feedback -- and to everyone else who I didn't directly quote by doing a slight necro on this thread.

I do agree that completing T2 CM of BG should be more rewarding than just T1 Durchest farming. I'm looking at the drop rates as a whole of everything, and adjusting where I feel is needed. And before anyone comes in and says "you don't really care about our feedback," I'm directly using feedback from this thread in my adjustments

While I can't really go into the exact specifics with numbers etc., I will say I will be increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic, among other things.

Two more things:

A) The chance of getting a relic / IXP rune is COMPLETELY independent from getting a piece of equipment.

B) Seat of the Great Goblin is currently calling the Legendary items from the Dol Guldur cluster. This has already been fixed on our internal servers.

[Omen_Kaizer]

B) Seat of the Great Goblin is currently calling the Legendary items from the Dol Guldur cluster. This has already been fixed on our internal servers.

Oh, while you're at fixing DG legendaries dropping from Erebor instances, I've seen the Malledhrim Warden Cloak drop from Scuttledells and the RK pocket item (I think that's malledhrim but I dont remember) drop from Iobar's Peak. Never bugged it, didn't see it as a big deal

[Chardok]

xrockx while your at it I would like to post my thoughts on loot. I ran iorbar peak t2 and beat challenge 9 times. in those 9 times nothing has dropped from the challenge chest. only twice was a teal dropped but I think the challenge quest is pointless if this is how the drop rates are going to be. you said t2 substantially increase the drop rate for teals? im just hoping you adjust the rate of challenge quest drops. thanks. also....

xrockx you have made some interesting loot tables but I think the legendary quality gear as it is concerned should be uniform in terms of either horse-lord or not if its armor and should have set bonuses. that's my thought because I have worked hard to get 2 horse lord pieces already but for the lore master the legendary drop in the mirkwood instances is a malledhram shoes I believe? if so its like im sacrificing my set bonuses off of the inferior hytbold set for the legendary quality armor that has edge since they have no bonuses themselves. thanks

[stubing]

Amusing how people complain about rewards. Like its only thing why they play game. So what? &&&& rewards? At least enoy chalenge and play like it is. But no people never happy.

People beat the instance once for fun, but they repeat is for the rewards. Why would anyone do the the same instance many times if there was no loot they were going for? Is it going to be challenging or fun the second time after you figured out how to beat it? Of course not!

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

Aah yes, Dungeons. Thanks for reminding me of all the reasons why I didn't like running that instance on Live before-hand

I am sorry, I wasn't intending to bash you guys hard on this per-se, but reading this, I just have to.

So, from one of the earlier dev diaries where you explained the instance finder and the motivation behind it, namely: people only running Sword Halls and Grand Stair ad nauseum, I took it you guys were very aware of the fact that Dungeons was probably the least run instance of the lot. Now you come in here and say you didn't like to run it, either.

And with both of that in mind, you guys manage to make the challenge even MORE a one-shot fest of elves? Who IN THE WORLD would be, I am sorry, but STUPID enough, with the knowledge of just why it sucked so hard before to run through the thing for half an hour only to get your elves killed by an unfortunate sequence of eyes and fears, to add three TROLLS on top of that that manage the feat in the first three seconds of spawning?
Are you guys seriously considering that an improvement? And incentive to run this instance again any time soon, even? I simply don't understand what kind of thought process is behind stuff like this, if it should be a thought process at all.

I will look deeper into how the instance is giving its rewards, the chests in that space are definitely quite special and I apparently didn't take that into enough consideration. Thanks for the heads-up!

Also, I have actually run this a lot (I happened to LIKE it before - as in before - I won't be running this utterly moronic version again) so I can tell you that it is intended and always has been, that only one of the chests is lootable. They even have tooltips to state so. I should have thought that stuff like that was documented well enough in your code base, but apparently not. Explains a lot of the current situation, if you ask me.

SNy