Update 9 Loot

[Rawlor]

SG won't drop symbols, as it's a 6-man.

@level 65 it did. I think bosses 3 & 4 should on T2, which a higher chance from boss 4 since that's "challenge".
Dungeons challenge should as well.

After all difficulty wise it is harder than BG's Durchest on Tier 1. And it's nice to have options...

[Gylve]

Something I just realized:

The way it was in RoI and RoR, there were existing but rather limited sources of 2nd Age symbols at launch. Pretty much the only people who had them were people lucky enough to win them in PUG skirm raids or people either skirming or doing Draigoch regularly with a static group. Until the Isengard instance cluster came out, I don't think anyone was really swimming in more symbols than they could use. Symbols from Foundry and ToO increased the number significantly, but you still saw lots of casual folks using old gear or 3rd Ages until Great River put them in the skirm camp and gave them out for doing the epic.

In RoR, you had a slim chance from Bugud and the same rate from skirms, so for two months again the only people who had them were people who got lucky in Bugud or PUG skirm raids or people who skraided with a regular group. Now, with Zergchest on full farm mode for tons of people, the symbols are flowing like wine. Already the AH price has dropped substantially and it's only going to be a short time before everyone willing to and capable of running BG T1 is going to have way more symbols than they could ever use, which will result in symbols becoming so cheap the market will be even more saturated than it EVER was in RoI, even once you could just walk over to the skirm camp to get one.

It's fine for now, because of the relative symbol drought we've had for two months, but as soon as you release the next expansion you can bet that people are going to be doing Durchest symbol farming runs on day 1, which will totally wreck an entire tier of LI advancement in the community. It will be made a step even worse if 1st Age symbols will be available in scaled OD.

[Moon-Biter]

@level 65 it did. I think bosses 3 & 4 should on T2, which a higher chance from boss 4 since that's "challenge".
Dungeons challenge should as well.

After all difficulty wise it is harder than BG's Durchest on Tier 1. And it's nice to have options...

Foundry and isengard 3mans did as well, so it's a really unfortunate change. Untill recently my PC simply couldn't handle raid-size instances very well (especially skirmishes), and i'm sure there are more people like that, so they are basically reduced to buying symbol instead of trying to get it themselves, it's pretty sad... With hytbold armor it seemed like the step into right direction, and now with this policy on symbols it's a huge setback.

[MosesTony]

Just did 85 SG HM. It was easier than it used to be. But for loot 1 person got 1 purple ring. That is all for all the bosses. I just got bounties not even 1 relic. Total waste of time will not be doing that again. When you clear HM at least one person should get a blue item. But nothing. Did get lots of Medallions and marks Lame

We got 2 Blue Items and a bunch of Medallions and Marks. The 2nd run we had 1 Blue item (a pair of blue slippers lol). I heard ppl getting the Symbol to drop as well.

[Southpa]

Foundry and isengard 3mans did as well, so it's a really unfortunate change.

Drop Symbols? No. Star-lits, not Symbols.

SG of old dropped Symbols, but apparently Symbols are either reserved for one-person luck-outs or (intended) 12-person content. Not sure I see the merit there, but whatever. It's clear the devs don't get it. There is no itemization consistency in this game ever.

Turbine, you have precious little end-game content. Creating the easy-mode path via T1 Durch has simply funneled all your former daily instance farmers into a separate instance. I've seen gold legendary items drop from failed challenges in T2 3-mans. I've only seen a legendary come from T2C Durchest, not Twins or LT challenges. If you think bumping up challenge tables to always give a rune or relic is the type of reward v. difficulty disparity that can fix things, you're more out of touch than I even thought.

You rewrite the book on itemization with regard to what type of instance holds which types of rewards every single update. I'm trying to think if it's ever made sense... Probably up to and through DN things made sense (even in the age of uber Moria armor). Since then, not really.

[spelunker]

Drop Symbols? No. Star-lits, not Symbols.

I've seen 10+ symbols drop in foundry, and some in every major patch of RoI, I can't speak to whether they still drop however. I only ran the three mans a handfull of times at most, so I never saw any drop, but I *heard* that they were dropping for a while before they were removed from the loot-tables.

[Southpa]

I've seen 10+ symbols drop in foundry, and some in every major patch of RoI, I can't speak to whether they still drop however. I only ran the three mans a handfull of times at most, so I never saw any drop, but I *heard* that they were dropping for a while before they were removed from the loot-tables.

Interesting. Our kin members made hundreds of runs through the Foundry. I don't ever recall hearing of a Symbol drop, much less seeing one.

[bastiat1]

given the HUGE ENORMOUS RIDICULOUS risk-reward and time-reward difference between doing all of t2c and just t1 durchest farm 20x per night, the only way you could really balance it out would be something along these lines:

1) set the t1 durchest drop rate to under 1%
2) set the t1 twins drop rate to 5%
3) set the t1 lieutenant drop rate to 20%
4) set the t2c durchest drop rate to 5%
5) set the t2c twins drop rate to 20%
6) set to t2c lieutenant drop rate to 50%

Exactly. If harder content takes twice as long, the rewards have to be more than twice as good to encourage people to do it. You have to compensate for wipe risk, and just the justification to actually concentrate rather than watching Netflix with /follow during a faceroll. The notion of "increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic" is laughably useless.

It's not hard to anticipate or figure this stuff out. It just seems like so much of this stuff is just first principles of game design. Maybe I'm being too harsh. If RockX tells us what the actual drop rates are, and if they are substantially differentiated between T1, T2, T2C I will eat crow, but from my observations from multiple runs at each level T1 is not less than half of T2.

[bastiat1]

B) Seat of the Great Goblin is currently calling the Legendary items from the Dol Guldur cluster. This has already been fixed on our internal servers.

Iorbar’s Peak and BG both drop the legendary quality Captain shield as well. It doesn't seem like any of them are working correctly.

[Southpa]

I've seen 10+ symbols drop in foundry, and some in every major patch of RoI, I can't speak to whether they still drop however. I only ran the three mans a handfull of times at most, so I never saw any drop, but I *heard* that they were dropping for a while before they were removed from the loot-tables.

Our kin members did hundreds of Foundry runs. I don't recall ever hearing of (and definitely never saw) a Symbol drop in there. Maybe that's a Special E-only thing, eh?

[Strikerin]

Our kin members did hundreds of Foundry runs. I don't recall ever hearing of (and definitely never saw) a Symbol drop in there. Maybe that's a Special E-only thing, eh?

Nope, my first symbol was from there on Dwarrowdelf. I also saw a number drop from 3-mans. I do think the drop rate was greatly reduced after update 6, but nobody cared because they were in skirm camps.

[Souku]

with update 9 there is really no incentive to run anything other than t1 durchest over and over. great job turbine devs.

[Omen_Kaizer]

with update 9 there is really no incentive to run anything other than t1 durchest over and over. great job turbine devs.

Instance-unique loot.

[apb8808]

Yellow OD armor-sets T2 Wing gated. The In Your Absence instances are still my favorite, and at the time of their release were quite awesome in terms of mechanics and difficulty. Not mention some great rewards for completion.

[GithlithMonaghan]

While I can't really go into the exact specifics with numbers etc., I will say I will be increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic, among other things.

That's certainly a necessity or however a nice thing to do, but it won't be a doorbuster for the new endgame at all. But I suppose that's been said. I think what's interesting for us out there is the "among other thing" that you mention. That's what's gonna decide for better or for worse.

Two more things:

A) The chance of getting a relic / IXP rune is COMPLETELY independent from getting a piece of equipment.

Not sure how to read that. Is that what's gonna be or is that today's status?

[Juices]

I am sorry, I wasn't intending to bash you guys hard on this per-se, but reading this, I just have to.

So, from one of the earlier dev diaries where you explained the instance finder and the motivation behind it, namely: people only running Sword Halls and Grand Stair ad nauseum, I took it you guys were very aware of the fact that Dungeons was probably the least run instance of the lot. Now you come in here and say you didn't like to run it, either.

And with both of that in mind, you guys manage to make the challenge even MORE a one-shot fest of elves? Who IN THE WORLD would be, I am sorry, but STUPID enough, with the knowledge of just why it sucked so hard before to run through the thing for half an hour only to get your elves killed by an unfortunate sequence of eyes and fears, to add three TROLLS on top of that that manage the feat in the first three seconds of spawning?
Are you guys seriously considering that an improvement? And incentive to run this instance again any time soon, even? I simply don't understand what kind of thought process is behind stuff like this, if it should be a thought process at all.

Also, I have actually run this a lot (I happened to LIKE it before - as in before - I won't be running this utterly moronic version again) so I can tell you that it is intended and always has been, that only one of the chests is lootable. They even have tooltips to state so. I should have thought that stuff like that was documented well enough in your code base, but apparently not. Explains a lot of the current situation, if you ask me.

SNy

So much truth it hurts.

[Acasta]

Grrrr...

There are many reasons why I don't do skirms, raids and the like, but hey it was after Rohan, there has been expansions, patches, fixes, surely loot would behave decently.

So after several of my Kin asked me to please help out, and against my better judgment I conceded and joined them. I was obliged to guzzle potions, have my gear beat up, and then finally success, the thrill of victory, time to hit the good ole chest and get my reward: 127 silver

127 silver? You got to be kidding me, all I got was chump change for all that hell?

Well, now I remember why I don't skirm or raid...

Sue

[Elfheart]

I am sorry, I wasn't intending to bash you guys hard on this per-se, but reading this, I just have to.

So, from one of the earlier dev diaries where you explained the instance finder and the motivation behind it, namely: people only running Sword Halls and Grand Stair ad nauseum, I took it you guys were very aware of the fact that Dungeons was probably the least run instance of the lot. Now you come in here and say you didn't like to run it, either.

And with both of that in mind, you guys manage to make the challenge even MORE a one-shot fest of elves? Who IN THE WORLD would be, I am sorry, but STUPID enough, with the knowledge of just why it sucked so hard before to run through the thing for half an hour only to get your elves killed by an unfortunate sequence of eyes and fears, to add three TROLLS on top of that that manage the feat in the first three seconds of spawning?
Are you guys seriously considering that an improvement? And incentive to run this instance again any time soon, even? I simply don't understand what kind of thought process is behind stuff like this, if it should be a thought process at all.



Also, I have actually run this a lot (I happened to LIKE it before - as in before - I won't be running this utterly moronic version again) so I can tell you that it is intended and always has been, that only one of the chests is lootable. They even have tooltips to state so. I should have thought that stuff like that was documented well enough in your code base, but apparently not. Explains a lot of the current situation, if you ask me.

SNy

This^^^^
I have never run Dungeons. No one wants to run it. "It's not worth it" or " I'm not going through that again" , are what people say to me. I HATE deeds I can't complete or in this case even get.

[phillbvi2]

Grrrr...

There are many reasons why I don't do skirms, raids and the like, but hey it was after Rohan, there has been expansions, patches, fixes, surely loot would behave decently.

So after several of my Kin asked me to please help out, and against my better judgment I conceded and joined them. I was obliged to guzzle potions, have my gear beat up, and then finally success, the thrill of victory, time to hit the good ole chest and get my reward: 127 silver

127 silver? You got to be kidding me, all I got was chump change for all that hell?

Well, now I remember why I don't skirm or raid...

Sue

I guess you didn't notice that each mob drops about 100 silver... So one durchest run will get you about 2 gold and that is not even looking at the vendor trash you'll get.

[Lestache]

RockX - perhaps the simplest solution to the general disappointment that people are feeling regarding beating the challenge modes is to guarantee at least one teal item after beating a Challenge, and make that independent of the individual loot rolls.

What I mean by that is this (using a 3-man as an example):

1) Champ, Captain, RK beat Iorbar's Peak Challenge;
2) A "behind the scenes" roll is done to determine who gets a teal item;
3) Once the class/winner is determined, a secondary roll is done to see if that teal becomes an epic item;
4) The item is assigned;
5) Apply existing loot rules to all three people.

Yes, this could mean that the winner of the guaranteed teal gets a second one, but I think that people would be happier getting two items instead of zero, even if that second item is redundant.

Increase the number of guaranteed teals for 6-mans and 12-mans (perhaps two for 6-mans and three or four for 12-mans).

Include Symbols in the "teal loot" table. Do not include relics and ixp runes in that table.

[Rugba]

any info on those gold crafted bracelets? did anyone get 1 of those yet? do the recipes even drop?

[RockX]

*snip*
Not sure how to read that. Is that what's gonna be or is that today's status?

This is how it currently works in-game. The chest checks each potential IXP, Relic, star-lits, etc. individually. The game also does separate checks to see if you get gear. Each check is completely independent from the others.

That's how it usually worked beforehand too, it's just everything was in one big pile before, while now each player gets their own pile.

As for the idea of 'guaranteeing a Teal drop which is handled normally with Master Loot in addition to the individual loot for each player,' while not a bad idea, it isn't something we can currently do. The ideas are certainly appreciated though!

[Namesse]

1) set the t1 durchest drop rate to under 1%
2) set the t1 twins drop rate to 5%
3) set the t1 lieutenant drop rate to 20%
4) set the t2c durchest drop rate to 5%
5) set the t2c twins drop rate to 20%
6) set to t2c lieutenant drop rate to 50%

Depends what the devs' goal would be if they followed this. Granted, I do think the rewards should be better for the later bosses and for T2 and C.

If they followed your suggestion, T1 Durchest farms would stop, which is the goal for some. But then what? What do you want people to do in place of that? When all the rewards for every instance are sub-par, then what? Think of all the scaled instances where there are no desirable rewards, such as GB, Fornost, Annuminas - they scale to cap but few people run them compared to "back in the day" when they were frequently run because they had loot that people wanted.

Anyway, I would like to see an incentive to go past Durchest, which means more rewards for the Twins and the LT, like LT T2C you should be guaranteed a symbol and a crystal and a high percentage chance at a gold. I suggest this because, with no locks, you're going to be spending 4 or more hours raiding.

[Lestache]

This is how it currently works in-game. The chest checks each potential IXP, Relic, star-lits, etc. individually. The game also does separate checks to see if you get gear. Each check is completely independent from the others.

That's how it usually worked beforehand too, it's just everything was in one big pile before, while now each player gets their own pile.

As for the idea of 'guaranteeing a Teal drop which is handled normally with Master Loot in addition to the individual loot for each player,' while not a bad idea, it isn't something we can currently do. The ideas are certainly appreciated though!

No worries - was just a thought (although I never mentioned Master Loot; I was hoping that it could be handled automatically like the rest of the loot - I'm not on the "give us Master Loot!" bandwagon ).

[Crell_1]

This is how it currently works in-game. The chest checks each potential IXP, Relic, star-lits, etc. individually. The game also does separate checks to see if you get gear. Each check is completely independent from the others.

That's how it usually worked beforehand too, it's just everything was in one big pile before, while now each player gets their own pile.

As for the idea of 'guaranteeing a Teal drop which is handled normally with Master Loot in addition to the individual loot for each player,' while not a bad idea, it isn't something we can currently do. The ideas are certainly appreciated though!

Basically, would it be fair to describe it as 10 separate dice rolls per player that you either succeed or fail on to get an item from that pool?

Relics (1), Relics (2) (I cant remember what the 2 teirs are but each tier of relics seems to be a seperate roll)
Teal Equip (3), Relic Removal (4), Stat tome (5), Star Lit (6), Rembrence (7), IXP (8), TSoC (9) LEGENDARY QUALITY ITEM (10) (I dont know if 10 and 3 are seperate rolls. I've never seen anyone win #10, let alone both 10 and 3 in the same chest)