Mord Brand

[TheMortician]

Truthfully I would gladly give up my mount in exchange for crepes...
In my opinion crepes...
You crepes...
I understand that crepes...
Freeps have mounts and crepes...
freeps have slightly higher DPS and crepes...

Freep conspiracy / Freudian slip or honest spelling mistake. You decide...

Also, crepes are delicious

P.S. I miss my maps except when going for a good flank, mounts are amazing for them. As l4j pointed out use what advantages you have and try to minimalize the ones the other guy gets (General Tactics that can be applied to more than just flanking on a horse )

[Theodoriph]

Truthfully I would gladly give up my mount in exchange for crepes giving up their maps any day of the week. In my opinion crepes should just have an induction that takes the same time as a mount does that enables them to run at the speed of a horse with somehow a chance to be dismounted after taking damage in combat in lieu of their maps. In PVP I would much prefer balance over immersion, but that's all completely beside the point. You crepes may make a solid argument for why horses are better than march + maps and I do not personally disagree with the majority of what you all are saying, but you seem to be doing an outstanding job of skirting around the fact that an argument cannot be made to justify the topic of this thread, the brand.

I understand that crepes were on average underpowered for pretty much this game's existence up until Rohan and I sympathize for you, but there is absolutely no reason why the Mordirith Brand should even exist, much less be usable in combat with a lawltastically short cooldown. Freeps have mounts and crepes have maps, freeps have slightly higher DPS and crepes have ungodly high morale pools. What are you trading in exchange for the brand? Lore master stun immunity is possibly the only counter to the brand and it's foolish to compare the two because not everyone has a pocket loremaster, not every loremaster (or even the majority of them these days) is intelligent enough to use stun immunity let alone traits it, and the brand offers immunity to absolutely everything. You can try to justify it by saying that the chance of it dropping is too small for it to be a valid complaint, but when I am fighting against someone who actually has the brand clearly that argument won't apply. If your argument is that you suffered for 4 years and now it's our turn then clearly you have a different vision of what PVP should be than I do and we will disagree forever.

I wouldn't have nearly as big of a problem with it if I were able to obtain it as a freep, however small my chances might be of it, but there is just no reason for why this item should still exist for only one side.

Quoting myself:

I will sum up this thread in four thoughts:

1. QQ - Spiders are OP.
2. QQ - Hinder + Brand is OP.
3. QQ - I can't slow-kite/chain stun/mez the rest of the creeps while blowing them up before they have a chance to fight back like I could before.
4. QQ - Our raid had a warden ambush that solo warg, but the warg branded and hipsed before we could zerg him. He's so bad. QQQQQ!

[Bombadil411]

Quoting myself:

So your argument is that the Mordirith brand is perfectly balanced because lots of people complain about it, or are you just being silly? :s

Either way, point proven.

[Daec]

I think you may be mis-characterizing the argument here. Or, perhaps, limiting "mobility" strictly to speed of deployment, rather than include both that and ability to maneuver on the field. In that respect, for most of the map, the Creeps can get there faster than the Freeps can - assuming they have a nearby map and it's not on cooldown. I don't think anyone on Creep side has argued otherwise.

The point I, and a few others, have tried to make is that Mounts can provide greater tactical mobility.

It's like the difference between air-dropping infantry and deploying armored cavalry. Airdrop will get them to the field of battle faster, but the APC's move faster when they arrive. In point fights, say, out in front of TR (a popular spot) the Creeps can get back into the fight faster than Freeps riding in from GV. But if you're fighting overland, the mount's greater speed gives them an advantage in flanking maneuvers and such.

It's situational.

My argument all along has been that making a blanket "X is better than Y" doesn't take into account situations where Y is better than X. Sometimes it's one. Sometimes it's the other. The trick is to recognize the strengths and weakness of each side, and play to your own strengths while not letting the other guy play to theirs.

*shares Wargie Snax^(tm) with those involved*

If a creep raid is getting flanked by freeps on horses, they need to learn how to use wargs and/or their trackers.

[l4j]

If a creep raid is getting flanked by freeps on horses, they need to learn how to use wargs and/or their trackers.

A bit simplistic, don't you think?

Though the counter is if Freeps get flanked by Creeps without horses, they really need to learn to use Burgs and/or their trackers.

See how that works?

[Daec]

A bit simplistic, don't you think?

Though the counter is if Freeps get flanked by Creeps without horses, they really need to learn to use Burgs and/or their trackers.

See how that works?

The ratio of burgs to wargs out in the moors is extremely lopsided. On Arkenstone no matter how hard a freep raid tries they can go no where without being seen.

[thisisanewname]

The ratio of burgs to wargs out in the moors is extremely lopsided. On Arkenstone no matter how hard a freep raid tries they can go no where without being seen.

But how often are those wargs with the raid or reporting in ooc where the fraid is? It's pretty rare to have more than 1 warg in a raid (at least the rare times i raid on bw) and some creep leader ask for people to NOT call out freeps in ooc constantly to try to cut down on the amount of goldtags. So just because freeps are seen by a warg doesn't mean its known by the craid.

[Daec]

But how often are those wargs with the raid or reporting in ooc where the fraid is? It's pretty rare to have more than 1 warg in a raid (at least the rare times i raid on bw) and some creep leader ask for people to NOT call out freeps in ooc constantly to try to cut down on the amount of goldtags. So just because freeps are seen by a warg doesn't mean its known by the craid.

All. The. Time.

[l4j]

All. The. Time.

I believe the quote is "your mileage may vary."

Not every server has the same demographics.

Not every server has the same attitudes.

[spelunker]

Obviously each has their own separate advantages, stop nitpicking the details and the nuances of play on different servers.

If I started a thread in the creep forum asking for the removal of maps and a buff to march! akin to what horses provide, how many actual creep players would support it because they thought it would be a strategic improvement to their side?

If I started a thread in the freep forum asking for the removal of mounts, a map and march! system akin to what creeps have, how many actual freep players would support it because they thought it would be a strategic improvement to their side?



Also: Brands, lame. Mord brands, dumb. Mord brands not sharing a cooldown with rank brands, dumber. Mord brands not sharing a cooldown with themselves, dumberer. Given the changes to store brands, I don't see why Mord brands couldn't have at least been adjusted the way the store ones were.

I'd support a creepside class getting a skill similar to the LM stun dot though.

[colefire2]

All. The. Time.

this. is. very. true.

[Shimrod]

Turbine are never going to get rid of Insignias and Brands.

The logical, commonsense approach would be to make ALL of them usable in combat and all of them sharing a single CD gated to rank.
So if a R8 creep uses a mord brand the CD should be the same as a regular R8 brand. They would still benefit from not having to buy them with comms and replacing them everytime their rank increases.

[BrittainTheCommie]

I think you may be mis-characterizing the argument here. Or, perhaps, limiting "mobility" strictly to speed of deployment, rather than include both that and ability to maneuver on the field. In that respect, for most of the map, the Creeps can get there faster than the Freeps can - assuming they have a nearby map and it's not on cooldown. I don't think anyone on Creep side has argued otherwise.

The point I, and a few others, have tried to make is that Mounts can provide greater tactical mobility.

It's like the difference between air-dropping infantry and deploying armored cavalry. Airdrop will get them to the field of battle faster, but the APC's move faster when they arrive. In point fights, say, out in front of TR (a popular spot) the Creeps can get back into the fight faster than Freeps riding in from GV. But if you're fighting overland, the mount's greater speed gives them an advantage in flanking maneuvers and such.

It's situational.

My argument all along has been that making a blanket "X is better than Y" doesn't take into account situations where Y is better than X. Sometimes it's one. Sometimes it's the other. The trick is to recognize the strengths and weakness of each side, and play to your own strengths while not letting the other guy play to theirs.

*shares Wargie Snax^(tm) with those involved*

Your circular reasoning is so tired and I'm not sure why anyone is falling for it.

But relating to your Red Alert mobility jargon, Mobilize + Maps is the perfect combination then? Guess which faction has both? I'm not giving any hints.

There are many advantages to Creepside. Maps being one of them.

There are many advantages to Freepside. Barbershop being one of them.

[D3str0yer]

Just remove it from game... I dont care if only 1 out of 100 creeps has got it. It's even worse when you play a class that relies on CC/kiting to actually win.

[MrKaCo]

Again, the Mord Brand or Brands in general need to be gone.

A certain transfer spider to Meneldor abuses it nicely. Camp lugs backside. Run at the sight of more than 2 or 3 freeps. Hit brand. Run to DG one shots. Oh group hit Make Haste and you almost dead. Burrow. Un-Burrow. Hit second brand. Run the rest of the way to DG 1 shots.

(Too bad that did not work once, but this spider rountinely does this).

[Daec]

Turbine are never going to get rid of Insignias and Brands.

The logical, commonsense approach would be to make ALL of them usable in combat and all of them sharing a single CD gated to rank.
So if a R8 creep uses a mord brand the CD should be the same as a regular R8 brand. They would still benefit from not having to buy them with comms and replacing them everytime their rank increases.

Not a terrible idea.

[Traur]

Mord brands should have been removed for the simple reason that it is another incentive to PvE in a PvP zone. If they wanted to have brands that work in combat, simply make all the brands have that functionality instead of just the R15 brand or keep the store brands in place, at least P2W brands do not force you to PvE.

[ArronJames]

On vilya mordirith brands have gone out of control, when im target calling RvR i can tab target through all the r6+ creeps and see atleast 50% with a mord brand or whom i know have a mord brand and its getting kinda stupid. Any person that can sit here and compare lm stun immunity to a brand that protects you from slows/disarms/fears/silences/roots is a complete fool and really needs to think about what they say.

I personally believe that mord brands should have a cd based on rank like normal brands. Let the creeps use them in combat for all i care but put a longer cd on them e.g. a r11 brand has a 20cd if your r11 your mord brand should have the same cd imo. I hear creeps complaining about not being able to lockdown freep healers because of stun immunty and all that proves is you dont understand the concept of crowd control since I personally am forever potting silences/disarms fear and roots that are getting in the way of my healing not to mention the -10m skill range spider debuff that takes my heals to 15m.