We’re very pleased to announce the LOTRO Player Council!

[Lilka]

The Small Council Shall…

• Participate in a face to face meeting with the LOTRO Team and Turbine staff if asked. Location to be decided by Turbine. (Travel expenses to be provided by Turbine.)

Nice, so you'd even fly some of us forriners in?

This sounds fascinating, truly. LOTRO is modernising and I absolutely love that. All the other MMOs that said how modern they were going to be on release, but something all went a bit wrong with them, yet here's an older MMO which is dedicated to really finding out how it can still be a top contender year after year. I've had my concerns and doubts, still do, but overall it's such a strong product. I'm really excited to see what the future holds as LOTRO keeps growing, and now with such a player focus.

[Aohh]

Getting more direct and focused feedback to Turbine can only be positive no matter how things break.

I hope you will apply. I'd vote for you as the voice of the tiny raiding community. Our last hope to not see that game turned into a easy single player mode.

[Sapience]

This looks very well thought out to me, especially for an alleged 'PR stunt'. Good luck to you all with it, blues and the future members of the council. I sincerely hope this can do some real good for the game.

I'll admit, there were a lot of long nights and rewrites before the first draft went to anyone. A large part of it actually came from reading and re-reading all of the comments and suggestions posted when Kate announced the Players Council. In fact, a large chunk of the FAQ was literally pulled out of that thread.

Wow.. so sad you had to include that part. But also realistic as some people cant keep their mouth shut. But, if they are harassed or griefed in game, guess what, they most likely violated the NDA condition of not revealing council information.

However, I might add a request. Make it avail to say.. 5/10 of the most active members of the previous council avail, either as an executive council or as members of the council to allow some continuity of the body into the second year. After all, then Turbine does not take full responsibility on retraining a whole new class every year. Take a lesson from the House and Senate, with overlapping terms to prevent having to train a whole new bunch of guys who dont know how things work each year. (Well, maybe the theory was sound, even if the House and Senate actually show how it is NOT supposed to work.)

The concern is more that a member is harassed because their forum or player name was public. Anyone who violates the NDA would be out very quickly and wouldn't be eligible for anything in the future.

I just had a question while reading this part:

Do fansites count as "editorial capacities"?

Regards,
Skro

A true "fan site" no. So something like Windy Acres, or Cosmetic LOTRO or someone who ran a kinship and site. But something like a Op/Ed blog or news style site like CSTM, Massively, or similar would not be eligible.

The Council does say that either the member forum names or char name will be supplied to the community to help make the council members accountable. Just knowing the names, some people are bound to be harassed.

Exactly.

Who is primarily responsible for sifting through the initial applications and nominations?

An example:
Is it a committee composed of people from various teams (Community/Development/QA/Marketing/Ecommerce), or strictly the community team at the front line?

Since players approvals will be public, can the player base be given an opportunity to present feedback on potential applicants before the final selection process?

Community, Product development, and some Exec input. Primarily it will be those who will be dealing with the council directly or most often.


Also, player approvals will not be public. The final list of the members of the council will. it should be clear from the FAQ that there is no election portion of this process.


"How will the Council be held accountable to the full community?
The role of the council is to serve as a representative body that provides feedback as requested and suggestions as appropriate. It is not an elected body answerable to a constituency. Our expectation is that members of the council appreciate their role as a special representative group and seriously consider the interests of all community members when making their suggestions and providing their feedback. We believe the size of the council is sufficient to insure the majority views are well represented. "

[/LIST]
Nice, so you'd even fly some of us forriners in?

This sounds fascinating, truly. LOTRO is modernising and I absolutely love that. All the other MMOs that said how modern they were going to be on release, but something all went a bit wrong with them, yet here's an older MMO which is dedicated to really finding out how it can still be a top contender year after year. I've had my concerns and doubts, still do, but overall it's such a strong product. I'm really excited to see what the future holds as LOTRO keeps growing, and now with such a player focus.

There was much discussion about this and we agreed that if we do end up flying people in (it does say IF in that sentence) that location shouldn't be an automatic exclusion.

[Fredelas]

The description of the Player Council doesn't exactly make clear how it will operate. Will scheduled meetings like online chats, game tests, conference calls, or Skype meetings be involved?

I ask this because I'm considering nominating a player who lives literally on the opposite side of the world from Boston. I think she would bring a valuable perspective to the council, but I wouldn't want her to accept only to find out later that scheduled events put an impossible burden on her and her family. Would she still be able to contribute meaningfully even if she couldn't participate in scheduled events?

[The_Bruce]

[QUOTE]We will extend invitations to some players based on internal research, participation in other feedback groups, and other means we feel appropriate to determining their ability to be a voice of the general playerbase on the council./[QUOTE]

Does this mean that Turbine will be inviting people into the council who they see as "upstanding" in some areas even though they have never applied or have been nominated?

[cdpengys]

A true "fan site" no. So something like Windy Acres, or Cosmetic LOTRO or someone who ran a kinship and site. But something like a Op/Ed blog or news style site like CSTM, Massively, or similar would not be eligible.

I can understand discounting Massively as a news site. But if CSTM doesn't count as a fan site, I don't know what else to call it. It's not like CSTM gets exclusive interviews or any news directly from Turbine like Massively does.

Does this restriction apply to anyone who writes for CSTM or has in the past? What if said writer really only does cosmetic posts these days (yes, I'm speaking of myself here)? To discount someone's opinion because of work they have done for the LOTRO community in the past is really disheartening.

[Fredelas]

I can understand discounting Massively as a news site. But if CSTM doesn't count as a fan site, I don't know what else to call it. It's not like CSTM gets exclusive interviews or any news directly from Turbine like Massively does.

Does this restriction apply to anyone who writes for CSTM or has in the past? What if said writer really only does cosmetic posts these days (yes, I'm speaking of myself here)? To discount someone's opinion because of work they have done for the LOTRO community in the past is really disheartening.

It's not clear to me where the line would be drawn, either. I think if a simple test had to be devised, I would ask, "Do you earn revenue (whether or not for profit) by writing or speaking about LOTRO?"

If an applicant earns revenue, even if it's not for profit, his or her participation on the council might have an effect on that.

[jewahe]

What kind of time per week will player be expected to put into this?

[Nyrion]

It's not clear to me where the line would be drawn, either. I think if a simple test had to be devised, I would ask, "Do you earn revenue (whether or not for profit) by writing or speaking about LOTRO?"

If an applicant earns revenue, even if it's not for profit, his or her participation on the council might have an effect on that.

I believe CSTM would be excluded because it is also a LOTRO news site as well as a fan site. A lot of people use it to get their LOTRO info after all, whereas a site like CosmeticLOTRO is focused on the 'fan' part of it.

Your proposed criteria seems suitable, but I suspect Turbine's current policy here is that any website that provides hard information on the game is out.

[Theandil]

Im little dissapointed... So when I come back to lotro after about 8 + months brake, and now play again from start (New character) over 1 month, and play Lotro over 3.5 year before, still cant join to council?

[Alneder]

I think that here's much to say...

For those, who mentioned "election", I agree that members of council have to be respected by other players, but I'm not sure that everyone should be allowed to give feedback/vote or so, because time to time it wouldn't bring any profit. If I look around on our server, I can see many childish people that don't take anything seriously, or real children, or people that want to annoy the others more than anything else. I can imagine what they would say... "Vote" on Withywindle would probably end as some disguisting argument and it couldn't motivate anyone to apply to the council. In that case is maybe better, if Turbine itself chose members, because it's the "neutral" - if not the "objective" way. And as far as I know those annoying/irresponsible people, they're usually too lazy to do such a difficult and unprofitable thing as applying anyway. But of course I don't and can't know how does it look like on the other servers.

One man once said, that a parliament represents the nation, so noone can expect it to consist of better/more clever people than the majority of the nation is. This is definitely not what do we want, right?

The idea of councl itself is great, I think that some closer contact with players is needed. The game, after all, is not only about numbers, statistics and drops, it's about feelings and virtues as well. Those are hard to share, but they're very important and often they are the reasons, why are people leaving the game either with anger or boredom. Noone plays lotro for some numbers at all, but for some feeling. And to explain a feeling, you have to write an essay and you need people who are willing to read and understand it. Not that the game isn't about skills, numbers and mechanics, I only wanted to mention something what people tend to forget.

I wish you good luck choosing members!

[Lestache]

I think that here's much to say...

For those, who mentioned "election", I agree that members of council have to be respected by other players, but I'm not sure that everyone should be allowed to give feedback/vote or so, because time to time it wouldn't bring any profit. If I look around on our server, I can see many childish people that don't take anything seriously, or real children, or people that want to annoy the others more than anything else. I can imagine what they would say... "Vote" on Withywindle would probably end as some disguisting argument and it couldn't motivate anyone to apply to the council. In that case is maybe better, if Turbine itself chose members, because it's the "neutral" - if not the "objective" way. And as far as I know those annoying/irresponsible people, they're usually too lazy to do such a difficult and unprofitable thing as applying anyway. But of course I don't and can't know how does it look like on the other servers.

One man once said, that a parliament represents the nation, so noone can expect it to consist of better/more clever people than the majority of the nation is. This is definitely not what do we want, right?

The idea of councl itself is great, I think that some closer contact with players is needed. The game, after all, is not only about numbers, statistics and drops, it's about feelings and virtues as well. Those are hard to share, but they're very important and often they are the reasons, why are people leaving the game either with anger or boredom. Noone plays lotro for some numbers at all, but for some feeling. And to explain a feeling, you have to write an essay and you need people who are willing to read and understand it. Not that the game isn't about skills, numbers and mechanics, I only wanted to mention something what people tend to forget.

I wish you good luck choosing members!

I don't think that Crell was specifically asking for us to be given the chance to vote on council members - especially not considering that the FAQ specifically states that they're not elected people - but rather that we be given the chance to provide feedback on the people.

Addressing a point made by someone else earlier, no one should be harrassed for being on or wanting to be on the Council, but if anyone who thinks enough of himself to apply for the Council can't handle scrutiny, feedback, or criticism, then that is not the sort of person I want representing my interests.

[Fredelas]

Im little dissapointed... So when I come back to lotro after about 8 + months brake, and now play again from start (New character) over 1 month, and play Lotro over 3.5 year before, still cant join to council?

I can understand Turbine wanting applicants to have significant recent experience with the game. The directions the game takes in the future (and the limitations it faces) are impacted more by developments from the past six months than they are from six years ago.

If you feel you don't fit the criteria this year, you can always apply next year!

[Crell_1]

I don't think that Crell was specifically asking for us to be given the chance to vote on council members - especially not considering that the FAQ specifically states that they're not elected people - but rather that we be given the chance to provide feedback on the people.

Agreed. It was clear that this wasn't an elected body from the start, it's a privately selected group of players who represents us. I feel that allowing the players an opportunity to provide input apart from the initial nomination process would provide the opportunity for us to feel more connected with these potential representives and thus, a better overall feel that they'd have the communities back as a whole.

Obviously, Turbine will be watching the group once they've received final approval. I imagine that anything particularly alarming brought to their attention privately about any member after the announcement would be taken as seriously and with any appropriate grains of salt as warranted.

[Cindir]

tl;dr Turbine, please consider accepting players who can represent the portion of the playerbase who have not been happy with major decisions Turbine has made in recent years about the game. The Council will be better for it.

Over the past few years I have seen a lot of players post who are unhappy with things like: how small recent expansions have been in content (how little instance/raid content has been created), how the store has had a negative impact upon the game in some ways, how perks like destiny points and other game features have been removed and put into the store, etc. I am not arguing these points, just want to point out that they have been expressed many times.

I hope that some players who understand the disappointment and disagreement with game decisions that is often expressed will apply and be accepted on to the council. Otherwise, I cannot see how the population of players that hold these views can be represented. It would be good to have some mature and respectful voices on the council who will be able to speak out against important game design decisions that hurt the player experience. And hopefully Turbine staff can get this feedback and understand why players feel certain decisions are bad for players.

[Garan]

I love the idea of the council. This could be a great opportunity. With the Palantir program we were given an opportunity to test the designs that were already developed but with the council we will have some opportunity to affect the direction of the designs themselves.

[SpartacusPierce]

I think this is a great idea and have thrown my hat into the ring.

[trancejeremy]

I am worried that because they really won't be represented (since they don't even qualify), casual gamers will only suffer from this.

People who spend hours a day playing the game will insist on making it more hardcore. Like you see on the forums. "It's too easy, make it harder", "Raise the virtue caps", "Only top raiders should get the best gear because only we need it", etc, etc, etc, all of which creates a larger and larger gap between the casual player.

Player Councils work in a game like Eve that is pretty niche to begin with.

[radspakr]

Casual players would qualify the same as Raiders as long as they've active in the last 6 months.

[Fredelas]

I am worried that because they really won't be represented (since they don't even qualify), casual gamers will only suffer from this.

I'm not sure why someone who considers himself or herself a casual gamer wouldn't qualify. ("Casual" seems to mean something different to everyone, anyway.)

It's not exactly clear what kind of time commitment participating in the council would require. Is that what you feel might discourage someone from applying?

[Jureon]

I think this council is a great idea, it will make a special bond between Turbine and the community. Now players and Turbine can see both sides of the coin

Good things will come out of this.

[swattz101]

I am worried that because they really won't be represented (since they don't even qualify), casual gamers will only suffer from this.

People who spend hours a day playing the game will insist on making it more hardcore. Like you see on the forums. "It's too easy, make it harder", "Raise the virtue caps", "Only top raiders should get the best gear because only we need it", etc, etc, etc, all of which creates a larger and larger gap between the casual player.

Player Councils work in a game like Eve that is pretty niche to begin with.

What is your definition of "Casual Gamer?" Someone who plays every 3-6 months or someone who plays 1-2 a week, and somethings has a week or two between sessions? If someone hasn't played in six months, they may not know the current state of the game.

[Garan]

I noticed on the Application/Nomination page that a number of fields such as Real Name, Email Address, Country Age over 18 and Twitter/Facebook/Google use appear to be required but in the case of a Nomination most of that information would probably be unknown. In fact, many players worthy of a nomination may only be known in game and then only by their character name, server and kinship/tribe. Are all fields required in order to nominate someone or could you specify which fields are required? It seems that given a forum name and/or a Character and Server that Turbine should be able to find the account information to contact nominees to verify the other information but that isn't specified in the form. Could you please indicate whether all fields are required even for nominations and if not, which fields are required.

[davidrspiers]

Put in my application, excited to hear something back!!

[sangheli]

I don't think that casual gamers will get so discriminated against. Sure, quite a few people wish the game was harder, but that is why the instances just get multiple difficulty levels and things like warbands exist. They are optional, but really fun and "challenging" depending on various factors. Also, casual gamers that play just a day or two a week are definitely active, compared to someone who has been gone for a year and doesn't know anything about the new update or, Valar forbid, expansion!