Introducing the 2013 LOTRO Player Council

[SavinDwarf]

Also, I'd encourage everyone to go back to the original announcement and FAQ and re-read it. I'm already getting 'feedback' from some players commenting on rigged voting (there was no voting) and other claims that are clearly counter to the information provided in the announcement.

It’s probably best to ignore the sniping or at least know where it’s coming from. All of us have personality traits, and one of the most prevalent is our attitude towards the world. At the extremes there are two types of people on the scale:

1) Those who are perfectly capable and willing to put the greater good in front of their own and believe that most people feel the same way.

2) Those that believe everyone is totally going to look out for themselves first and because of this the only sensible thing to do is put yourself first.

Obviously most of us are somewhere in between. Some cultures tend to skew to one direction or another so that when you compare people from one country versus another there is a definitely difference.

The bottom line is if you tend towards a #1 view you want to support the council, hope for the best and expect the best. If you are more of a #2 then you know you are in trouble if you are not on the council and the next obvious step is to try and destroy the council because it’s the only sensible thing to do.

Neither view is really right or wrong. It’s just a perspective. However, if you are a #2 type person then either you are on the council or it’s a bad thing. If you are a type #1 person then the council is a good thing as long as no #2’s are on the council.

[Savin looks around and runs for cover knowing that incoming sniper fire is imminent!!]

[FarFooFaFa]

Unfortunate that there is no representation from top tier raiding or PvMP kins from Landroval. In fact it looks like you have at least two members of the same kin (which focuses on neither).

It's not an accurate representation of the player base, but speaks clearly to the direction of the game.

[MrWarg]

Sapience is there an update on when the council members will receive further instructions or when the council section of the forum will be accessible?

[FundinStrongarm]

Unfortunate that there is no representation from top tier raiding or PvMP kins from Landroval. In fact it looks like you have at least two members of the same kin (which focuses on neither).

It's not an accurate representation of the player base, but speaks clearly to the direction of the game.

Huh? So now it's not just top tier raiding/PvMP kins in general that aren't represented - it's top tier raiding/PvMP kins from Landroval that aren't represented - and therefore it is a bad thing???

You say it isn't an accurate representation of the player base. But how do you know? Maybe it IS an accurate representation of the player base (partially based on the past direction of the game).

Let's see where this journey takes us before shooting it down as wasted effort. I believe most everyone on the council have the best intentions for LotRO (I know I do) and will want the game to be as fun as possible for everyone to play.

[Maxal]

First off the council has not even meet yet. I am one of those currently locked out of the Council forums so I have not seen the guild line of what we are going to be able to talk about, see in advance, what we will be asked to bring to Turbine etc.

But one of the main reasons I applied to the council was to focus on moving the community back to a constructive criticism instead of just being a place to blasting Turbine, Class DEV X and other community members.

I have been here since closed beta and as much as I would like to see the forums be as constructive as it was back then, I know it can not because of the number of folks involved in the game worldwide. I am a great fan of this game but I have always offered serious criticism when it was required.

As for complaint that raiders will be ignored, well I did not complete T2C raids in RoI or the RoR yet. But I spent many nights and weekends wiping and learning the RoI and RoR T1 trying to get the gear for a whole raid so T2 could be completed. Have completed some wings on T2C, but never the final boss fight. Not from lack of trying. hehe

But that is for only two of my toons. The other 6 toons I play in a very causal style, Get them to cap, finish the epics, rebuilding Hytbold (on all of them), doing deeds for TP for my two main toons, etc. My final toon is a burg and I take the time to read the quests text before and after as it is the last time I will enjoy the content. because of that he is a slow leveler but that is fine with me. As once he finishes that portion of the game is over for me. So I want to have the same feeling about the content as I did with my first toon.

I am sure some folks would say I am a terrible choice because I spend about 0.1% of my game time in the moors. That is because the moors is not the story I am concerned with and I do not find any extra satisfaction in getting the killing blow on XYZ creep. I spent a lot of time there years ago when there was no real rewards for freeps, except for a repair bill.

I am older, have a wife and daughter, a job that requires a lot of travel, understand corporate finance, i.e. the need to make a profit while keeping customers happy and coming back. I have my own opinion of what needs to be improved and changed but I will always listen to a good argument on why my opinion needs to change. I stress a well formulate strong disagreement with my opinion is something I will read and think about. A rant that I know nothing normally does not get completely read.

I do not use twitter, Facebook and what else most folks like to use. Once the council is formed and running I will gladly read input from others. You can send mail via the forum here or post in the "suggestions forums" as I read those every time I log into the forum.

Before you dismiss the council let us at least meet once.

[ShireDweller]

Congratulations and best wishes to all our Player Council members!

[Palentian]

Before you dismiss the council let us at least meet once.

This ....seriously......

[jakeprecision123]

First off the council has not even meet yet. I am one of those currently locked out of the Council forums so I have not seen the guild line of what we are going to be able to talk about, see in advance, what we will be asked to bring to Turbine etc.

But one of the main reasons I applied to the council was to focus on moving the community back to a constructive criticism instead of just being a place to blasting Turbine, Class DEV X and other community members.

I have been here since closed beta and as much as I would like to see the forums be as constructive as it was back then, I know it can not because of the number of folks involved in the game worldwide. I am a great fan of this game but I have always offered serious criticism when it was required.

As for complaint that raiders will be ignored, well I did not complete T2C raids in RoI or the RoR yet. But I spent many nights and weekends wiping and learning the RoI and RoR T1 trying to get the gear for a whole raid so T2 could be completed. Have completed some wings on T2C, but never the final boss fight. Not from lack of trying. hehe

But that is for only two of my toons. The other 6 toons I play in a very causal style, Get them to cap, finish the epics, rebuilding Hytbold (on all of them), doing deeds for TP for my two main toons, etc. My final toon is a burg and I take the time to read the quests text before and after as it is the last time I will enjoy the content. because of that he is a slow leveler but that is fine with me. As once he finishes that portion of the game is over for me. So I want to have the same feeling about the content as I did with my first toon.

I am sure some folks would say I am a terrible choice because I spend about 0.1% of my game time in the moors. That is because the moors is not the story I am concerned with and I do not find any extra satisfaction in getting the killing blow on XYZ creep. I spent a lot of time there years ago when there was no real rewards for freeps, except for a repair bill.

I am older, have a wife and daughter, a job that requires a lot of travel, understand corporate finance, i.e. the need to make a profit while keeping customers happy and coming back. I have my own opinion of what needs to be improved and changed but I will always listen to a good argument on why my opinion needs to change. I stress a well formulate strong disagreement with my opinion is something I will read and think about. A rant that I know nothing normally does not get completely read.

I do not use twitter, Facebook and what else most folks like to use. Once the council is formed and running I will gladly read input from others. You can send mail via the forum here or post in the "suggestions forums" as I read those every time I log into the forum.

Before you dismiss the council let us at least meet once.

Yicky, I suppose, was selected to represent the PVP side of Elendilmir, which is reasonable. I'd say almost everyone who PVPs knows him, and he's been leading pvp raids for a long time. So, can I assume that you represent the PVE side of elendilmir? Since you've stated yourself that you've spent 0.1% of your time in the moors, I guess it's a safe assumption that you are our PVE guy.


However, who are you? 95% of our server's population don't know who you are. Okay, so you've not completed t2 raids and t2c raids on level. Elendilmir is a server that has quite a substantial raiding population, and has achieved a number of world firsts. Can you represent that population having not done the raids and experienced it in its full glory? Nope. Perhaps I am mistaken on Elendilmir's PVE population. Perhaps, the PVE players are casuals like yourself who want to enjoy the content and read every quest text.

If I were to tell you how t2 raids can be improved, would you understand the mechanics, having not experienced them? However, I cannot blame you because you were selected. I can only grimace the choice of selection, and the person(s) who made that decision in picking you to represent us.

[bunny.hu]

Good luck for the member of council, and god save the raiding gamers. From our server, Snowbourn the 3 player is casual. I hope from other server have some raiding member, or at least lv85. From our server one people not lv85 yet, so I'm sure he/she is a good player and know a lot about this game and can help a lot to make this game better. Sarcasm off.

[DarkCntry]

I appreciate being added to the Council and while I don't partake in any one style of gameplay I am very capable of seeing, understanding, and digesting issues among many areas that the game takes, so it is my hope that I can see, and listen, to the issues that arise from various aspects so I can properly bring them up when it's required.

In other words, I don't believe any of us were chosen specifically because we raid, we solo, or we sit in the Shire eating pies, I believe we were chosen because we do have a wide range of styles and, based on the list, many of us have the ability to parse information and pass it on in a manner that the Development team can digest and work with.

Just because someone from a T2-raiding group from Y server wasn't picked doesn't mean that raiding won't be represented, it just means that someone from a T2-raiding group from Y server isn't on the council this time around. Honestly though, why does it matter what specific server someone comes from?

If people have desires they'd like to see, please feel free to post them in as much detail, without derogatory remarks, in an email to me, and I'll do whatever I can to see about getting those voices through. I cannot guarantee that anything comes of it, nor can I guarantee that I'll reply to those messages (I will if there is something I can do or am allowed to discuss), but I can guarantee that you will have equal opportunity to state your grievances or desires for a specific aspect you'd like to let the Devs know about.

Again, I do this freely and I hope that the community doesn't squander this by spamming that email with meaningless remarks. Please, be patient, be conscientious, and be human.

And yes, the typo in member is intentional.

[Garan]

Gratz to those that got on the council. I hope you are able to provide a constructive influence on the game.

Hopefully people will stop fixating on which server each councilor represents since they don't just represent their server. They represent an aspect of the overal playerbase that Turbine felt they wanted to hear from, not a particular server. Heck, many players have characters on several servers (I have chars on all of the US servers and several from a previous Codemasters account on the EU servers). Only the "main" character is listed so many of these players probably have characters on other servers, in other kins, etc.

[Garan]

an email to me

Not sure if that is a typo in your email address but as posted it has an extra "e" in "memeber".

[DarkCntry]

Not sure if that is a typo in your email address but as posted it has an extra "e" in "memeber".

And yes, the typo in member is intentional.

It was done just because I don't feel like possibly stepping on toes of others who may have already created lotrocouncilmember@gmail .

[InfernalDante]

edited

[Maxal]

However, who are you? 95% of our server's population don't know who you are. Okay, so you've not completed t2 raids and t2c raids on level. Elendilmir is a server that has quite a substantial raiding population, and has achieved a number of world firsts. Can you represent that population having not done the raids and experienced it in its full glory? Nope. Perhaps I am mistaken on Elendilmir's PVE population. Perhaps, the PVE players are casuals like yourself who want to enjoy the content and read every quest text.

I am not a big pug player. When my former kin did not have enough folks to raid I did not raid. When my former kin raided I raided. When they stopped raiding, I stopped also. Doing a T2C is a kin event, it is not something you just pick 12 random players and get done like a skirmish. I may not be in the top 10 tank list on E but I am one of the better in understanding my main class and all of the others, except a warden.

Now that you mention it, I never really cared who knows me. I have never heard of your toon either. I have never heard of the other player selected from Big E either. I am sure the other player was selected for more than him playing in the moors. I am concerned with the whole LotRO experience, not just end game, not just pvp, not just crafting, not just pve, not just festival, but everything. I do not play any other MMO, so all my game time is spent here.

My personal goal is to finish all deeds and content on my main. As of today the only things not completed are festival (social) deeds and instance deeds. Alomst all the T1 are completed and some of the T2, but not all. So I feel I understand raids as well as most folks. Not as well as the real hard core raiders, but I understand them more than most players.

This is a game to me. I enjoy it, I love Middle Earth and I want it to continue to improve. T2C raids is a small part of the game just like pvp, crafting, festivals, fishing and what ever. All folks have their priorities, wish lists, must have lists and must go lists.

But until we actually see how the council works everything is conjecture. Maybe we will have more input power than everyone expects or maybe a lot less. I frankly expect it will be between the two expectations expressed so far.

Besides U11 is more or less completed and I am sure the majority of Helm's Deep is also finished and set in stone. I would not expect to see the council effecting the game until U12 or maybe even U13.

[YesMaam]

A team is strongly represented by the word common. A team is linked for a common purpose, they have a common goal and they themselves as individuals have much in common. However it is imperative that they be multifarious. Regarding composition, all teams will have an element of homogeneity and heterogeneity. The more homogeneous the group, the more cohesive it will be. The more heterogeneous the group, the greater the differences in perspective and increased potential for creativity, but also the greater potential for conflict.

I believe there is more to comprehend than people are seeing regarding the disconsolate state and crestfallen comments about the chosen. The selection process resulted in individuals who have all (typically) the same thing in common:

• Wise - (30's and above) have family's and have had as Sapience said, "many walks of life."
• Kind - They seem to put others first and are very considerate of others, this suggests a frictionless feedback environment
• Diverse - There are many play styles represented and all of the players are very active and have a strong history

I guess what I am saying is that Turbine picked the perfect people and they did an excellent job, however, they failed to add that which makes a team constructive. People that are:

• Opinionated - Are open to criticism and stating the obvious, this suggests a little more drama - the opportunity cost that leads to constructiveness.
• Knowledgeable - More familiar with how the game itself works (combat focused). While this game does involve a strong element of crafting, leveling, legendary items and so forth combat is what it is geared towards.

Please do not misunderstand that I'm saying members of the council aren't opinionated or knowledgeable, rather this is not their most dominant attribute

I have read both applications forms of 3 people that got in and 3 "hardcore raiders" that didn't.The elected wrote a paragraph form of their interests, intent, and who they were as in individual. The raiders bulleted their accomplishments and eligibility and the required fill in lines. I fully understand the elector reading through applications and thinking to himself: "Wow this guy is full of himself", or "Wow this person is a wonderful individual". I guess what I'm trying to say is a "hardcore raider" would probably make Sapience drink another coffee in the morning .

My point of this post is please do not take our comments of criticism to mean specifically that we do not approve of who is there. Rather it is not complete. Would it be too much to ask for at least 1 known US and EU player from a raiding kinship who isn't too opinionated to be added to set our mind at ease? We at least know then he/she is viewing suggestions made by others.

[FundinStrongarm]

Yicky, I suppose, was selected to represent the PVP side of Elendilmir, which is reasonable. I'd say almost everyone who PVPs knows him, and he's been leading pvp raids for a long time. So, can I assume that you represent the PVE side of elendilmir? Since you've stated yourself that you've spent 0.1% of your time in the moors, I guess it's a safe assumption that you are our PVE guy.


However, who are you? 95% of our server's population don't know who you are. Okay, so you've not completed t2 raids and t2c raids on level. Elendilmir is a server that has quite a substantial raiding population, and has achieved a number of world firsts. Can you represent that population having not done the raids and experienced it in its full glory? Nope. Perhaps I am mistaken on Elendilmir's PVE population. Perhaps, the PVE players are casuals like yourself who want to enjoy the content and read every quest text.

If I were to tell you how t2 raids can be improved, would you understand the mechanics, having not experienced them? However, I cannot blame you because you were selected. I can only grimace the choice of selection, and the person(s) who made that decision in picking you to represent us.

I don't think any of the council members were picked based on the server they played their main toon on. So, for people to say someone represents a certain focus of play on a particular server doesn't fully understand how people were selected (from what we know). It seems it was happy circumstance that there was at least 1 council member from each server. And, while they probably were shooting for a mix of large, small, new, old, NA and EU servers, they could have easily not had any players from a number of servers. (Garan covers this well a post or two ago.)

The selection seems to have mostly been based on player focus, not server.

[Kalluin]

First, congratulations to all Council members. May your work help the game keep the pace of time.

Second, a word of concern after looking at the list. Laurelin server is a rarity since it has the only RP flag across all servers - something inherited from Codemasters that, at least, Turbine has kept -. But I am sad to find no members from the roleplaying community from the only RP flagged server in this game. At least some people from RE-Landroval's RP community made it there - congratulations to Harperella -, but for me this is a clear message from Turbine: the only RP server's RP community has nothing to say at Council level.

A really, really sad day.

[DarkCntry]

First, congratulations to all Council members. May your work help the game keep the pace of time.

Second, a word of concern after looking at the list. Laurelin server is a rarity since it has the only RP flag across all servers - something inherited from Codemasters that, at least, Turbine has kept -. But I am sad to find no members from the roleplaying community from the only RP flagged server in this game. At least some people from RE-Landroval's RP community made it there - congratulations to Harperella -, but for me this is a clear message from Turbine: the only RP server's RP community has nothing to say at Council level.

A really, really sad day.

Again, I don't believe that people were picked specifically for a representation of a server. For example, I'm on Landroval and I appreciate RP, but my purpose on the council is more to help steer the game to support an environment that many can enjoy. I will see about pushing for more RP-enhanced things, such as event support and what-not, but it doesn't mean that I'm only going for RP content for the future.

[Fredelas]

The applicants were not selected to represent servers. They were selected to represent the entire community. A council member is not your personal hotline to Turbine.

If you want to bring a personal concern to the council's attention, you have 70+ members to choose from. If you have a general concern, that's what the forums are here for. Turbine isn't going to stop reading the forums, and neither are any of the council members.

[Alcaniel]

I'd like to add my voice to that of my fellow Player Council members who have posted here to ask that you all at least give us a chance before dismissing us out of hand because you don't see or feel that your play style is represented. I can't speak for everyone on the Council, but while my play style may not be PMvP or raiding, that doesn't mean I can't be informed and make reasonable judgments and decisions regarding different perspectives. While there are some areas of the game I have little experience with, I plan to do my best as a member of the Player Council to support other's play styles as well as my own in a fair and reasonable manner.

A short note/apology for any confusion that anyone might experience between myself and Alcaniel from the Gwaihir server. Alcaniel was the character name I used in beta and if I remember correctly, was the first character I created after suscribing on a different server (Silverlode?), so I joined the forums with that name. Shortly after I began playing I switched to the Brandywine server and started Gaelwing, and since I hadn't progressed too far on Alcaniel, I deleted her. Later on I tried to change my forum name to Gaelwing, but by that time it was no longer possible to do so, so I'm stuck on the forums as Alcaniel rather than Gaelwing, which I would prefer. Hopefully this doesn't cause anyone too much confusion!

While I may not post often, I read the forums regularly, and I encourage you to submit your ideas to the Suggestion forum. If you wish, you may also PM me on the forums as well. We're here to help make LotRO better, give us a chance and lend us your support to do so!

[LordVoronturEU]

Good luck for the member of council, and god save the raiding gamers. From our server, Snowbourn the 3 player is casual. I hope from other server have some raiding member, or at least lv85. From our server one people not lv85 yet, so I'm sure he/she is a good player and know a lot about this game and can help a lot to make this game better. Sarcasm off.

Since I'm sure this was addressed at me, I'll address it.
Yes, my main is not yet level 85. He's close to level 84 now.
The reason he's not level 85 yet is that I have other characters that I also play on.
I have 3 over level 75, and a total of 22 different characters on my 2 main accounts.
I've been playing LOTRO since Closed beta of SoA.
I'm a Founder and a Lifer.

I've been playing actively for the most part since Early Access started on April 12th 2007 over on the former EU servers.
I have at least one of every class, every race.
I've got every Crafting combination covered.

I've also had other things to do since the launch of RoR, and the time I've spent in game has been spent on a variety of things.
You make a lot of assumptions, all of them wrong.
Just because someone isn't what you would call a hardcore raider, doesn't mean they're not willing to listen/read suggestions on how to make improvements for that style of play.

[Kalluin]

I am aware that people were chosen regardless the server, but still, if you look at the server list, besides language-specific servers only two show up as something different: Landroval (RE) and Laurelin (RP).

Sapience stated that server was not looked upon because the game is the same across all servers. Well, being in the only two R-flagged servers, I disagree with him. But that is just my personal opinion, and the way I percieve Turbine's perception of the singularity of the roleplaying communities in this game.

[BrittainTheCommie]

All that this says was that players from these particular kins were not selected. Does that mean that none of the players on the council have done and completed T2? Maybe they are someone that runs along side the kin but doesn't join. Maybe they used to be in one of those kins. Maybe being that you are using forum posts as a baseline, not all kins that have beat it have posted on the forums.

There are many variables. Just because you don't see anyone from those kins in the council, does not mean that the council does not have end game raid players in it.

Oh lord, you already sound like the rest of them.

[Yicky]

Hey all! Here is my wall of posts to reply to

The 2 people chosen from my server are heavy Role Players from the same kinship. The kin (to my knowledge) doesn't raid, PVP or engage in much group content. *sigh*

I wasn't particularly expecting to be picked, but 2 people from the same kinship and with the same play style doesn't seem too fair and diverse for me. Isn't the player council supposed to represent the whole gaming community including different play styles and choices? The fact that the only two picked from Imladris are withing the same 'group' is just silly.

I'm going to stay positive and hope that the heavy raiding community is represented and heard, if even from other servers since mine is a lost cause.

I know people are a little jumpy because the selections are skewed on the server side. One server gets 6, the other gets 1 etc. But Know that it isn't based on server or kinship. It is based on playstyles. I can say with a lot of confidence that Turbine looked at apps and saw "end game raider, completed T2CM on the following raids: [insert raids here]. Don't fret just because the two from your server are role players and not end game. You guys will still be represented.

Not currently active. I stoped playing for a little while. I am the owner of multiple accounts so the fact Econn has been unplayed for 6 months is not an issue. As for capacity I do a little of everything. As for what I am basing what I am saying let me give you a little history I have been playing online game for almost 20 years. I have been a part of the MMO community since the 90's. I have been in several communitys that have tried this type of focus group. As for my LotRO history: Alpha Tester SoA, Closed SoA, Closed MoM, Closed SoM, received invites for RoI & RoR but didnt accept them.

So the answer to your question is cold hard experience.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience and a good baseline for suggestions. I would enjoy shooting some emails back and forth with your thoughts on the game

First of all congratz on being nominated to the council.

To put things in perspective, do you think you could share your kinship's accomplishments in the Erebor raids? T1, T2 and T2C.

Thank you and all the best

I need to talk to YOU!! Hit me up in game on Shaxell or on the forums

i have forgotten to say it:
congrats to all.

Hey Milith! good to see you. Thanks and I need to get with you in PMs

When the council was first announced I had high hopes that they would choose a group of players that were interested in making the game better for all players. But now that the names have been released I dont see that happening. I recognise the names of two of the players and both are very hard core in their play style and they have been very vocal that other play styles should get less time in development, have less value and should not be rewarded as well as thier chosen play style. Now this is just two of 70 players but I can not see that Turbine is not aware of the adatued of these two players. If even 25% of the players on the council are like the two I know I dont see the council as accomplishing anything. It will just be a place for people to argue and demean other players play style.

Forgive me for saying it like this: but you know two players. Out of how many thousands that play? It seems like you are very experienced in gameplay, but I have not heard of you either I wouldn't think twice, however, in thinking that because I have never heard of you, that you are incapable of giving good feedback and input in the game. Don't sell us short yet just because you don't know us

Unfortunate that there is no representation from top tier raiding or PvMP kins from Landroval. In fact it looks like you have at least two members of the same kin (which focuses on neither).

It's not an accurate representation of the player base, but speaks clearly to the direction of the game.

Servers are servers. Each server has people with the same playstyles. Maybe there are not PvMP or raiding kin players from landy. But there are PvMPers and Raiders from other servers to represent you. As far as PVP. I know myself and 1 other that are high rank. Him being freep, myself being creep, that will represent you to the wall. And I know there are HxC players from PVE land that will represent you as well. Feel free to contact me on the forums if you have thoughts

Sapience is there an update on when the council members will receive further instructions or when the council section of the forum will be accessible?

wargy! we need to get together in BAOS

First off the council has not even meet yet. I am one of those currently locked out of the Council forums so I have not seen the guild line of what we are going to be able to talk about, see in advance, what we will be asked to bring to Turbine etc.

But one of the main reasons I applied to the council was to focus on moving the community back to a constructive criticism instead of just being a place to blasting Turbine, Class DEV X and other community members.

I have been here since closed beta and as much as I would like to see the forums be as constructive as it was back then, I know it can not because of the number of folks involved in the game worldwide. I am a great fan of this game but I have always offered serious criticism when it was required.

As for complaint that raiders will be ignored, well I did not complete T2C raids in RoI or the RoR yet. But I spent many nights and weekends wiping and learning the RoI and RoR T1 trying to get the gear for a whole raid so T2 could be completed. Have completed some wings on T2C, but never the final boss fight. Not from lack of trying. hehe

But that is for only two of my toons. The other 6 toons I play in a very causal style, Get them to cap, finish the epics, rebuilding Hytbold (on all of them), doing deeds for TP for my two main toons, etc. My final toon is a burg and I take the time to read the quests text before and after as it is the last time I will enjoy the content. because of that he is a slow leveler but that is fine with me. As once he finishes that portion of the game is over for me. So I want to have the same feeling about the content as I did with my first toon.

I am sure some folks would say I am a terrible choice because I spend about 0.1% of my game time in the moors. That is because the moors is not the story I am concerned with and I do not find any extra satisfaction in getting the killing blow on XYZ creep. I spent a lot of time there years ago when there was no real rewards for freeps, except for a repair bill.

I am older, have a wife and daughter, a job that requires a lot of travel, understand corporate finance, i.e. the need to make a profit while keeping customers happy and coming back. I have my own opinion of what needs to be improved and changed but I will always listen to a good argument on why my opinion needs to change. I stress a well formulate strong disagreement with my opinion is something I will read and think about. A rant that I know nothing normally does not get completely read.

I do not use twitter, Facebook and what else most folks like to use. Once the council is formed and running I will gladly read input from others. You can send mail via the forum here or post in the "suggestions forums" as I read those every time I log into the forum.

Before you dismiss the council let us at least meet once.

Hey Max A lot of people were asking about you on E last night looking forward to meeting you and working with ya.

Gratz to those that got on the council. I hope you are able to provide a constructive influence on the game.

Hopefully people will stop fixating on which server each councilor represents since they don't just represent their server. They represent an aspect of the overal playerbase that Turbine felt they wanted to hear from, not a particular server. Heck, many players have characters on several servers (I have chars on all of the US servers and several from a previous Codemasters account on the EU servers). Only the "main" character is listed so many of these players probably have characters on other servers, in other kins, etc.

Well said. A server is a server. Luckily, there is at least one council member per server. Count that as a blessing as that wasn't the goal. The goal was to get all playstyles represented. Remember, there is always the forum inbox that you can send to people, as well as forum posts that council members can contact you on! Many will probably setup contact accounts for you as well. You will be represented well, regardless of server.

A team is strongly represented by the word common. A team is linked for a common purpose, they have a common goal and they themselves as individuals have much in common. However it is imperative that they be multifarious. Regarding composition, all teams will have an element of homogeneity and heterogeneity. The more homogeneous the group, the more cohesive it will be. The more heterogeneous the group, the greater the differences in perspective and increased potential for creativity, but also the greater potential for conflict.

I believe there is more to comprehend than people are seeing regarding the disconsolate state and crestfallen comments about the chosen. The selection process resulted in individuals who have all (typically) the same thing in common:

• Wise - (30's and above) have family's and have had as Sapience said, "many walks of life."
• Kind - They seem to put others first and are very considerate of others, this suggests a frictionless feedback environment
• Diverse - There are many play styles represented and all of the players are very active and have a strong history

I guess what I am saying is that Turbine picked the perfect people and they did an excellent job, however, they failed to add that which makes a team constructive. People that are:

• Opinionated - Are open to criticism and stating the obvious, this suggests a little more drama - the opportunity cost that leads to constructiveness.
• Knowledgeable - More familiar with how the game itself works (combat focused). While this game does involve a strong element of crafting, leveling, legendary items and so forth combat is what it is geared towards.

Please do not misunderstand that I'm saying members of the council aren't opinionated or knowledgeable, rather this is not their most dominant attribute

I have read both applications forms of 3 people that got in and 3 "hardcore raiders" that didn't.The elected wrote a paragraph form of their interests, intent, and who they were as in individual. The raiders bulleted their accomplishments and eligibility and the required fill in lines. I fully understand the elector reading through applications and thinking to himself: "Wow this guy is full of himself", or "Wow this person is a wonderful individual". I guess what I'm trying to say is a "hardcore raider" would probably make Sapience drink another coffee in the morning .

My point of this post is please do not take our comments of criticism to mean specifically that we do not approve of who is there. Rather it is not complete. Would it be too much to ask for at least 1 known US and EU player from a raiding kinship who isn't too opinionated to be added to set our mind at ease? We at least know then he/she is viewing suggestions made by others.

Hard to know at this point how the elections took place. But I have faith that the raiders will be represented well.

I don't think any of the council members were picked based on the server they played their main toon on. So, for people to say someone represents a certain focus of play on a particular server doesn't fully understand how people were selected (from what we know). It seems it was happy circumstance that there was at least 1 council member from each server. And, while they probably were shooting for a mix of large, small, new, old, NA and EU servers, they could have easily not had any players from a number of servers. (Garan covers this well a post or two ago.)

The selection seems to have mostly been based on player focus, not server.

This exactly. All playstyles are represented. Remember that among each server, the game is the same. So a raider from server A does the same content as the raider from sever B. regardless of Kin. So they might have selected the person that doesn't advertise their accomplishments on 50 posts. But they may have completed the same content.