Introducing the 2013 LOTRO Player Council

[Glumposneak]

Hence the reason polls would have been the way to go. Makeing the rifts between these groups bigger is why the council is doomed to failure. Because thats exactly what will happen.

Were you voted into this position by your peers (AKA the LotRO players)? No

Will you support your peers opinions? No

Are you allowed to discuss issues on the board with the community? No

Were you placed in a position of power that could change the game for the worse? Yes

In the end what will you have acomplished? Nothing

The answers to those questions are why the council is doomed.

Agree 100% again

[Devro]

Agree 100%

Also, I'm not saying their name or what server they are opn (but they are not on my current riddermark server), one of the names picked, the person is a really nasty human and will be gloating with self righteous arrogance at having been picked for the player council and I shudder to think what those people on that server that know them think.

Well, I am on your current Riddermark server. And I hardly consider myself a gloating or arrogant person. (although I do come across as a smart-alec sometimes)

If you have any useful suggestions on how the game can be improved I am more than willing to listen and forward those ideas to the people who can effect changes. That being said, I see far too many people on this thread crying doomsday because the Devs should only take opinions from the polls based on here. The problem I have with that is, the people who post their complaints on here all seem to be VERY pointed in which direction the game should be turned. (i.e. I don't see anyone from a raiding kin that is saying they wish the crafting was better). The average player doesn't post on the forums. They pretty much just stay in game and play. They aren't as easily bored as the people who only find pleasure in a single aspect of the game, hence they don't have all the free time. So, in my honest opinion, polls on the forum are not the best way to go, as you will only get opinions from those people who spend their time on the forums, and not in the actual game.

Am I a hardcore raider? No. But, I do spend a lot of time raiding even though I am not in a hardcore raiding kin.
Am I a hardcore PvMPer? No. But a lot of people that are either my in game friends, or in my kin DO have a heavy Moors presence.
Am I a hardcore RPer? No. In fact I think they are kind of weird to get pulled into a video game that much.

All being said. I think I represent the average player more than someone who thinks we should have 20 more high end-nearly impossible raids, or is a rank 15 Warg.

At the end of the day, nobody has a clue really, about what will or will not happen with the council, and it is all speculation at this point. Jumping on the boat to criticize what hasn't even really started yet seems a bit of both premature and immature.

[UwS-Harledir]

Character names. So those on their servers will know who they are.

while i congratulate the poor soles that got hand picked by Turbine, i also sympathise with them for now being spamed / mobed / etc. on their servers since everyone knows their character (and alts).

Sadly enough - know if my kinmates who have been in this game since pre-beta (incl. myself) know any of the three picked for Snowbourn. Those 3 names have hardly even been seen on glff.

So my question is - how are they supposed to be the "representatives" of the player base?
when:
1. nobody knows them
2. due to not knowing them have no respect for them
3. due to the above, why should players go to them?

A representative of the player base of one server would have to be elected through the player base of the server.

In this case, my best guess, Turbine got themselves players that have not in away way been public or noticed (in negative sense) by Turbine, in order to have a player council full of fan-boys?

[Andtalien]

Late to the party but... Thanks and congratulations to my fellow council members! Very excited to be part of this!

I think it's wonderful that Turbine chose to establish the council in order to gather direct feedback from their user base. To those who worry about us not being "representative" or "too many/few": it's almost impossible to put together a group that equally represents all characteristics of a user base as diverse and colourful as the LOTRO community. The council's size is great for obtaining a lot of qualitative (and also quantitative) input in a number of ways. Also, like someone else pointed out already, it is not always necessary to gather feedback from users who represent a certain playing style the most (e.g. raiders). It can be just as valuable - in some cases even more valuable - to ask people who are very different but able to "think outside the box" and voice their opinion. So, please don't worry too much upfront but let us get stuff done first.

As for myself, I will take my role in the council very seriously and do my best to help make this a success for everyone.
A little background: I'm a long-term player of LOTRO and I love all things Middle Earth. Active on 2 servers, with a wide range of play styles (PvE, PvMP, Solo, Raid... the only thing I don't really do is RP). In my offline life, as a user experience professional, I'm all about "being the user's voice". So I will both try and make sure to represent my fellow players and draw from my UX perspective when I give feedback.

Happy to be contacted with any issues and concerns. You can best reach me ingame as Alcaniel (PvE) or Puscheli (PvMP).

Looking forward to hearing from you and to working with you guys on the council!


@Gaelwing: same thing here! Andtalien was my first character and I'm stuck with the name now... my main is Alcaniel.

[LordVoronturEU]

while i congratulate the poor soles that got hand picked by Turbine, i also sympathise with them for now being spamed / mobed / etc. on their servers since everyone knows their character (and alts).

Sadly enough - know if my kinmates who have been in this game since pre-beta (incl. myself) know any of the three picked for Snowbourn. Those 3 names have hardly even been seen on glff.

So my question is - how are they supposed to be the "representatives" of the player base?
when:
1. nobody knows them
2. due to not knowing them have no respect for them
3. due to the above, why should players go to them?

A representative of the player base of one server would have to be elected through the player base of the server.

In this case, my best guess, Turbine got themselves players that have not in away way been public or noticed (in negative sense) by Turbine, in order to have a player council full of fan-boys?

I'm always in Global when I'm logged on my 3 highest chars, Vorontur included.
To be honest, I've not been met with anything but respect, nothing untoward at all, a few people have started conversations with me in tells about what they would like to see addressed.
That's why the character names were published, so that people could approach us.
I'm open to suggestions you feel are good ones.

As far as the council full of fan-boys, I'll have to say, you couldn't be more incorrect.
If you look at my post history, you will see I've been fairly critical of Turbine at times when it has been warranted.
As has Runesi. I can't speak for Ambhorn, as I've not looked at his posts.
Me and Runesi are also members of another community site.

I can't say I'd remember every name I saw in Global either. There are just too many of us on there.
Btw, I've been on Snowy since early access. I've been playing since Closed Beta of SoA.
And there are still players who most likely have been playing since early access that I've never met in-game either.

As far as representatives of each Server. We're not. It was never the intention.
However, I will always listen to any concerns you might have, should you spot me in Global.

Hopefully, the outcome of this is that people get to know the Councillors from Snowbourn better, so as to allay any fears they might have.

[Sapience]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

[lordglencairn]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

Dear Sapience,

I think you could help out a lot of people, especially the council members, by managing the entire community's expectations *now*. Why don't you make a simple post explaining to the players (who have not read the NDA that the council has) what we can and cannot do/say/discuss/expect with a council member. At the very least you'll save everyone a lot of consternation and perhaps save a few friendships and/or a council member their "job."

Seems like a reasonable and prudent thing to do, and perhaps should have been done (or could be edited in) to the post where you announced their names to the world.

Thank you.

[Maxal]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

I think all of us on the council understand the seriousness of the NDA. After personally being involved in the military, corporate America, closed SOA and Moria betas I know how not to say anything important but sound really smart. LOL

Besides without access to the official council forums, there is nothing I can discuss anyways except for my totally uninformed personal; opinions, which I currently use in all my posts today.

Really just a bump for the issue on "no forum access" at least for me.

[MrWarg]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

Just to be clear on this, we are allowed to receive feedback from our fellow players yes? My sole reason for telling people they are free to contact me was simply to make myself known to them as not everyone will be familiar with me. The NDA is at the forefront of my mind in my actions here. Not every player can/wants to use the forum to leave feedback so it might be useful for them to be able to use us to do so if that would be a better fit for them.

[Dworin]

I had high hopes for this council until I read the list of those who are on the council. My hopes are now dashed and tossed to the wayside and I will devoutly ignore the council, and this will be my last post on the subject of the council.

[LordVoronturEU]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

I think it goes without saying that we understand not to discuss anything that's being discussed by the Council.

I did, however, think part of this whole Council was that players would be able to raise concerns, give us feedback on any issues, or bring suggestions they feel need looking at to the table, by contacting us?

[RicardoFurriel]

I had high hopes for this council until I read the list of those who are on the council. My hopes are now dashed and tossed to the wayside and I will devoutly ignore the council, and this will be my last post on the subject of the council.

Coming from someone who has 3 kinnies in the Council I wonder why such reaction.

[Rufus_T_Fyrfly]

Coming from someone who has 3 kinnies in the Council I wonder why such reaction.

It's not too much of a stretch that people from the same kin would happen to be in the council. AFAIK, LMB is one of the biggest kins in all of LOTRO.

[SiliconDragon]

The following individuals have been selected to participate in the LOTRO Player Council program. They represent many play styles, countries, and walks of life. We look forward to hearing their feedback and suggestions.

While we are sharing their names, please remember that council members cannot discuss their actions or activity as a member of the council.
...
Brandywine

• Gaelwing USA
• Anabellwen USA
• Crazymufindir USA
• Darlond USA
• Elebuil Canada
• Ironbock USA

...

Thank you, Turbine, and to everyone in advance who helps make LOTRO the best it can possibly be...and then some!

PS To my neighbors on Brandywine, I'm on equally as Ironbock, Amraam, and Wyrdstorm.

[Sapience]

The following names have been added to the council after receiving their confirmations.

Evernight
Fireaxe Finland

Withywindle
Lokad USA

Gladden
Pythias USA

Please also note a couple of individuals have been removed due to eligibility questions. We're trying to resolve those. If they cannot be resolved those individuals will be replaced.

[Dworin]

Coming from someone who has 3 kinnies in the Council I wonder why such reaction.

Those 3 kinnies are well respected people to whom I wish all success in all that they do, in-game or RL.

[Gilean-EU]

All right, now that I am "officially" in the council as well, allow me to say hello to everyone

Personally I believe that all council members are thinking about what would be best for this game and we know that we are here for the community instead of some personal agenda, and we try to do what we see as best for all of the community.

I am representing for soloer / PvE / questing / altoholic side but I am not blind for other playstyles either. I am sure that we can discuss things in constructive manner with the council. If someone wants to send suggestions etc they can PM me (I cannot promise to answer everyone but I can promise to read every post).

[Lilka]

5 Wardens on 2 Servers, all of them < lvl 55, no other character beyond that level...a veeeeeery different playstyle for the council^^

Really? Hm. I guess the opinions of the mid-levellers are valid but I don't think you can really know the game when all you've done is wander around the lonesome and empty lands of 20-59.

I'd like to point out that I am a raider (if not the most hardcore of the hardcore) and have raided with you.

Boom, headshot

"what is the official way we are supposed to submit our ideas/suggestions to our player counsel members, so that we are not bothering them with in-game /tells, etc?? Has there been a format set up for this?" ...as I see no other inquiries on the subject that he was replying to, unless I missed one?

I took it to mean that he was emailed the request for contact information. REAL contact information.

I'm very disappointed that no really raider was choosen from the council.

And has been said many times in this one, HOW DO YOU KNOW none of them raid? Clue - you don't know 70 players and their playstyles on your own server, let alone across the entire game. You don't know the majority of that list, who they are, what they do, when they do it. There are raiders there. You're not so special that just because they're raiders whom you don't know doesn't make them any less of a raider.

Another thing is that since application asked our preferred playstyles, I wonder if that could have been published as well? That way community would have known (and not guess) if there is any raider, soloer, PvMP-people or not.

Some people's 'style' doesn't have a fancy name. Even some people's hardcore raiding isn't enough to get the 'hardcore raider' label these days, it seems!

Those 3 names have hardly even been seen on glff.

Being one of the loudest on GLFF was not part of the selection criteria for the council. Nor was being 'known' or 'famous'.

A representative of the player base of one server

Which wasn't the point of the council. They're not representatives. They're a core of players to act as a sounding board. They're not there to bring us features and make things happen and carry our petty messages.

People seem to very angry the council isn't what they thought the council would be, despite the fairly clear description.

[Crell_1]

A reminder to all council members that you are under an NDA. Be very careful in contacting and being contacted by other players.

Could you make the actual text of this NDA public, so that if there are any non-obvious restrictions, we as a community can do our part not to make things harder by asking.

Since the council forums are down, I've been operating on the assumption that they've not been exposed to much in the way of NDAed materials yet, and that conversing on any wide range of topics is something they can do with out risk to their position.

[thalialotr]

Congratulations to all those selected to serve on the Council and thank you to those folks and everyone who applied/was nominated. Player input can never hurt!

[Datheor]

Hence the reason polls would have been the way to go. Makeing the rifts between these groups bigger is why the council is doomed to failure. Because thats exactly what will happen.

1. Were you voted into this position by your peers (AKA the LotRO players)? No

2. Will you support your peers opinions? No

3. Are you allowed to discuss issues on the board with the community? No

4. Were you placed in a position of power that could change the game for the worse? Yes

5. In the end what will you have acomplished? Nothing

The answers to those questions are why the council is doomed.

1. A point, yes. But setting up voting with this community brings to mind the old joke about herding cats.

2. You do not know this, and are making an assumption based on no facts. Many of the council members have established email and twitter accounts for the expressed purpose of gathering information.

3. Since what may be discussed could be in the pure theory area (and as such is considered secret) This is not an unusual thing. Had they not wrapped it in a NDA, i would have thought it was was just PR fluff.

4. True, but they can also change it for the better. Anyone that has been in an R&D group (what I see the council as) knows that many a horrible idea has been headed off while it is still in the theory stages.

5. Again, an assumption based on no evidence so far. The list is not even a week old. Give them time to work before the tar and feathers come out.

I assumed this council was going to be an echo chamber for Turbine. Considering some of the names I have seen, and having read their previous posts, I am happy to say I am wrong. If Turbine is expecting a group of people to give the community stamp of approval, they are going to have to get rid of more than a few folks.

Eliminating people for the crime of speaking truth to power will set up howls across the gaming world. After all, there are multiple gaming sites, both professional and amateur, that would trumpet an act like that. We are not know as a quiet bunch, by any stretch. No, I think this is going to be a positive step towards a better game.

So, I for one am adopting a wait and see, but with a positive frame of mind. I have been a part of another game since Beta that truly does not care about the player, but only for what money they can squeeze from them. This game is based on an IP as beloved, and as rabidly followed, as Middle Earth. That is truly a horrible experience, when you see a beloved "world" shredded. I came back to LOTRO as my home. And home is where I plan to stay.

[Wibz]

That is truly a horrible experience, when you see a beloved "world" shredded.

While the Lotro world certainly isn't being shredded yet, we certainly slowly heading towards it with a number of large 'cuts' coming. Raiding and instances are being pushed away, if not stopped altogether (last comment on the subject was that devs will only start discussing the possibility of more instances once HD is finished, no guarantee there will be any more.), PvP has been told it's getting no new content for the foreseeable future, we're getting Hobbit slot machines soon, more and more content is requiring money to run the content more than once a day.

And to keep on topic, will the council be able to halt or change any of this? I highly doubt it.

[Lestache]

Coming from someone who has 3 kinnies in the Council I wonder why such reaction.

I can't possibly know another person's mind, but someone earlier mentioned that a known Landroval griefer made it on to the Council, so my guess would be that Estellost is subscribing to a "one bad apple" theory.

[RicardoFurriel]

It's not too much of a stretch that people from the same kin would happen to be in the council. AFAIK, LMB is one of the biggest kins in all of LOTRO.

As a fan of math and probabilities in general, I just wished the odds of three people from the same server and from the same kinship being selected to the council (among hundreds of applications) were the same as the odds of me having a gold drop out of a million dungeon runs... Because they are obvious not the same.

Those 3 kinnies are well respected people to whom I wish all success in all that they do, in-game or RL.

Oh I'm not debating that. I think Harparelle should be more recognized than what he is. I have no problem at all with Harp bhaving a different treatment than most (spam threads for votes etc). Same thing for Merric and Goldenstar from CSTM deserve more than me and most here for the role they play in and outside of Lotro.

Harp is a reference in the Lotro world and I have the most respect and admiration for him and for the LMB. But how can you be upset when you gonna have more direct access than most to members of this council?

[Lestache]

So, I for one am adopting a wait and see, but with a positive frame of mind. I have been a part of another game since Beta that truly does not care about the player, but only for what money they can squeeze from them. This game is based on an IP as beloved, and as rabidly followed, as Middle Earth. That is truly a horrible experience, when you see a beloved "world" shredded. I came back to LOTRO as my home. And home is where I plan to stay.

I'm curious as to what that other game is. The only other beloved IP I can think of that has an MMO is Star Wars, and the SWTOR F2P model is quite different that LOTRO's: if you subscribe (equivalent of VIP here), the in-game Store leaves you alone, as opposed to here where it's pushed on all players frequently regardless of subscription status.

(I am told that it's a rather brutal system for the people attempting to play for free, but I think that is as it should be - the whole idea behind allowing people to play for free should be to make it abundantly clear that it is going to be far cheaper and more fun to subscribe than to not. I do wish that Turbine would do more to clearly delineate between VIPs and non-VIPs, but alas.)