Nona, Horn, and Corudan

[PierreForever]

My idea is a wee-bit lore breaking (Corudan) but fighting alongside Nona (possibly not if she doesn't come back, or she dies along the epics) Horn and Corudan in one of the Instances (or what not ) would be so Awesome! It could even lead to the Deaths of Nona and Horn as Aragorn, you, Corudan, Legolas, Gimli, and the rohirrim flee to the Keep after the wall is Blown up.
They could cover your retreat and at the end of the Battle you find them dead with Uruk and Orc bodies all about them, even a session play where you are one of them. Would be very cool but Corudan would be lore-breaking as there where no elves (or dwarves or Hobbits, mind you) but then again having our real characters at helms deep is also lore-breaking but who cares? (not me!) Also somehow having Morflak alive and you have to kill him once and for all would be kinda cool but also weird? Anyone else have any ideas they'd like to share?

[whheydt]

A whole lot lore-breaking actually. Besides, Horn (assuming it's the same Horn) dies at the Pelennor Fields. I would guess that we'll see them fight together there.

[Redbeaver]

A whole lot lore-breaking actually. Besides, Horn (assuming it's the same Horn) dies at the Pelennor Fields. I would guess that we'll see them fight together there.

holy &&&&, Horn is an actual character in Tolkien? lol

[Ferthcott]

There's a song telling us about Horn's death. It's few levels below Theoden, where we are drowned in details and eyewitness accounts. It's even less than with Halbarad, since we actually "meet" him, even though the only distinctive things we learn about that character is that... he's expecting to die - and that he does.

Compared to that, all we know is that there was... a song, probably created by someone who wasn't even born at the time, with its usual level of reliability when it comes to unwashed or sort-of-washed masses.

We also know Horn has every reason to suspect his... life choices? might not be seen too kindly by his kinsmen. There's also a family he already "dishonored" once, deGrimazation does not mean this "racial" issue is going away, so openly defying "rules", even by self-exile, is not an option. This means MoL has a lot of space and choices, and we already know imagination is not in short supply

One of things I liked about recent Epic is how it was (again!) less focused on Fellowship-related events, predictable and boring by design, even when also designed well. So, regardless of how *exactly* this story ends, being locked by "lore" is something I can live without, especially if "lore" is rather... shallow around these parts.

[FundinStrongarm]

holy &&&&, Horn is an actual character in Tolkien? lol

There's a song/poem in the Return of the King describing the death of Théoden and other prominent Rohirrim. Several of the Thanes and Reeves we've already met are mentioned in this poem, including Horn.

[Berephon]

A whole lot lore-breaking actually. Besides, Horn (assuming it's the same Horn) dies at the Pelennor Fields. I would guess that we'll see them fight together there.

It is the same.

[Berephon]

There's a song telling us about Horn's death. It's few levels below Theoden, where we are drowned in details and eyewitness accounts. It's even less than with Halbarad, since we actually "meet" him, even though the only distinctive things we learn about that character is that... he's expecting to die - and that he does.

Actually, if you read closely, said song also includes some other characters that you have met in East Rohan....

EDIT: Teaches me not to finish the thread before posting.

[djheydt]

Actually, if you read closely, said song also includes some other characters that you have met in East Rohan....

EDIT: Teaches me not to finish the thread before posting.

I'm hoping that Nona and Horn will die together, with piles of slaughtered enemies at their feet.

I wrote the following once about a lady fighter in an SCA war:

"Maythen called a convocation at the Resurrection station,
Where they'd driven us in orderly retreat;
'Hats on, gentlemen!' she cried, and when everyone had died,
She was lying there with twenty at her feet.

"We're the warriors of the West, woman for woman we're the best,
And we'll kill you if we can before we die;
And when you've laid us all to rest, we'll sink slowly into the West,
And we'll meet you in the mead-hall in the sky."

[Ferthcott]

Actually, if you read closely, said song also includes some other characters that you have met in East Rohan....

Well, fate of characters like Theoden is locked because of, among everything else, corroboration by multiple reliable sources - while those you mentioned are several levels below in comparison, as we barely know that some anonymous singer included their deaths years later

So the only lore-related constraint for an ending is a reason for that song to exist - any reason is fine with me

[PierreForever]

I just read the song horn dies at the fields beside grimbold so assuming its the same horn nona and he couldn't die together (lol) I at least want to see them die together with orc bodies all about them wether it be helms deep, or pelenor, I also thought perhapss they could have corudan die at helms deep. Or maybe they will all die at the pelenor with some dramatic talk. Also at pelenor (I think I'm a few expansions ahead lol) you need to be able to choose to go with the grey company or rohhirim or even with gandalf and pippin.

[phaiLbuS]

Due to contrary belief, there were NO elves at Helm's Deep! Therefore, Corudan will NOT be at Helm's Deep. Maybe after the battle, but not during/before.

[PierreForever]

Due to contrary belief, there were NO elves at Helm's Deep! Therefore, Corudan will NOT be at Helm's Deep. Maybe after the battle, but not during/before.

Yes I know there are no elves at helms deep accept legolas, but from what I've read it looks like our characters will play a minor role in the defense of the horn burg INCLUDING all of us who are elves dwarves or even hobbits (shivers hobbits shouldn't be able to leave the shire and bree land lol) so if our elves dwarves and hobbits are there? Corudan would only break the lore very little compared to a hobbit with heavy armor and boots

[Othniel]

Yes I know there are no elves at helms deep accept legolas, but from what I've read it looks like our characters will play a minor role in the defense of the horn burg INCLUDING all of us who are elves dwarves or even hobbits (shivers hobbits shouldn't be able to leave the shire and bree land lol) so if our elves dwarves and hobbits are there? Corudan would only break the lore very little compared to a hobbit with heavy armor and boots

I read some speculation somewhere that our characters wouldn't be fighting at Helm's Deep, but rather we would have session play soldiers (or something the likes of monster play) where your character is represented by a soldier there. I admit the idea intrigues me...

[whheydt]

Yes I know there are no elves at helms deep accept legolas, but from what I've read it looks like our characters will play a minor role in the defense of the horn burg INCLUDING all of us who are elves dwarves or even hobbits (shivers hobbits shouldn't be able to leave the shire and bree land lol) so if our elves dwarves and hobbits are there? Corudan would only break the lore very little compared to a hobbit with heavy armor and boots

I read some speculation somewhere that our characters wouldn't be fighting at Helm's Deep, but rather we would have session play soldiers (or something the likes of monster play) where your character is represented by a soldier there. I admit the idea intrigues me...

That's one version of what has been surmised and it sounds like a somewhat garbled version of what I think may be done. To recap...

I infer from the press release that what may be done is that we will be allowed to create a Rohirrim soldier who will fight at Helm's Deep when we have at least one level 10 character, much in the same way that anyone with a level 10 character can create a creep to fight in the Ettenmoors.

One of the interesting consequences of such a mechanic would be that relative newcomers to LotRO would be able to see "end game" content within an hour or two of starting to play, rather than waiting to level a character to 95. It would also create a situation where new players would want to buy the HD expansion, and indirectly create a desire to buy the expansions in between the base game and HD.

It is entirely possible--maybe even probable--that my conjecture is wrong, but I think it fits what is actually said in the HD press release and --unlike the conjecture that Helm's Deep is going to be a PvMP zone--no one from Turbine has come along to say that I'm wrong.

[PierreForever]

That's one version of what has been surmised and it sounds like a somewhat garbled version of what I think may be done. To recap...

I infer from the press release that what may be done is that we will be allowed to create a Rohirrim soldier who will fight at Helm's Deep when we have at least one level 10 character, much in the same way that anyone with a level 10 character can create a creep to fight in the Ettenmoors.

One of the interesting consequences of such a mechanic would be that relative newcomers to LotRO would be able to see "end game" content within an hour or two of starting to play, rather than waiting to level a character to 95. It would also create a situation where new players would want to buy the HD expansion, and indirectly create a desire to buy the expansions in between the base game and HD.

It is entirely possible--maybe even probable--that my conjecture is wrong, but I think it fits what is actually said in the HD press release and --unlike the conjecture that Helm's Deep is going to be a PvMP zone--no one from Turbine has come along to say that I'm wrong.

Yes having level 10s getting end game content is stupid but it will at least be fun for the noobs.... and also if our characters don't get even a minor minor minor part, even if it is lore breaking for the "magical" races (hobbits dwarves elves) I still want to play a part! However minor it is!

[whheydt]

Yes having level 10s getting end game content is stupid but it will at least be fun for the noobs....

Since players with level 10 characters have been able to do "end game" content--if you define the Ettenmoors that way--since the launch of SoA, this would be nothing new.

and also if our characters don't get even a minor minor minor part, even if it is lore breaking for the "magical" races (hobbits dwarves elves) I still want to play a part! However minor it is!

Sigh. Yeah, I know. We have any number of players who don't care what's in the lore if it gets in the way of what they want. Some of us actually care about keeping LotRO within shouting distance of LotR.

There have been discussions for years about how Helm's Deep would be handled by Turbine. Prior to the HD press release, I was rather firmly of the opinion that the only way it could be done was session play. Some people on the Forums get absolutely livid at mere suggestion that it would be session play. *If* my conjecture is correct, *then* Turbine has found an alternate way to keep Helm's Deep consistent with the lore *and* allow "player owned" characters to participate in the battle. If that is correct, then kudos to Turbine for a clever solution to an intractable problem.

[PierreForever]

Since players with level 10 characters have been able to do "end game" content--if you define the Ettenmoors that way--since the launch of SoA, this would be nothing new.



Sigh. Yeah, I know. We have any number of players who don't care what's in the lore if it gets in the way of what they want. Some of us actually care about keeping LotRO within shouting distance of LotR.

There have been discussions for years about how Helm's Deep would be handled by Turbine. Prior to the HD press release, I was rather firmly of the opinion that the only way it could be done was session play. Some people on the Forums get absolutely livid at mere suggestion that it would be session play. *If* my conjecture is correct, *then* Turbine has found an alternate way to keep Helm's Deep consistent with the lore *and* allow "player owned" characters to participate in the battle. If that is correct, then kudos to Turbine for a clever solution to an intractable problem.

Don't get me wrong! I do care about the lore, I really do, but I love the battle of helms deep so much that I won't be satisfied playing a rohhir! My character is man of bree land who has come south and most likely very near to helms deep so I am sure the rohhirim would take whatever help they could get! I suppose at least being able to charge with erkenbrand and gandalf will be good enough for me I suppose but being in the actual battle would be so much better.

[whheydt]

Don't get me wrong! I do care about the lore, I really do, but I love the battle of helms deep so much that I won't be satisfied playing a rohhir!

I would hope that you will read what you have written and recognize the disconnect between the two parts of your statement.

[djheydt]

Undoubtedly a great many Men of Rohan and of Gondor fell on those fields, and the poet mentions Théoden, Harding, Guthlaf, Dunhere, Deorwine, Grimbold, Herfara, Herubrand, Horn and Fastred.

And of Gondorians, Hirluin, Forlong Derufin, and Duilin.

These were either (a) the ones the poet had heard of, or (b) the ones some previous poet, whose work he's adapting, cared to mention.

I could easily make out a case that Nona fought and died on the Pelennor, but the Rohirric poet didn't mention her because she was a woman and a Dunlending and not worth of notice.

[PierreForever]

Undoubtedly a great many Men of Rohan and of Gondor fell on those fields, and the poet mentions Théoden, Harding, Guthlaf, Dunhere, Deorwine, Grimbold, Herfara, Herubrand, Horn and Fastred.

And of Gondorians, Hirluin, Forlong Derufin, and Duilin.

These were either (a) the ones the poet had heard of, or (b) the ones some previous poet, whose work he's adapting, cared to mention.

I could easily make out a case that Nona fought and died on the Pelennor, but the Rohirric poet didn't mention her because she was a woman and a Dunlending and not worth of notice.

That would not even be lore breaking well kinda :P anyway.... I wondor what corudans fate is... I do believe now that nona and horn will die at
Pelenor. But corudan.. who knows .... well we'll just have to wait and see then won't we!

[Redbeaver]

Due to contrary belief, there were NO elves at Helm's Deep! Therefore, Corudan will NOT be at Helm's Deep. Maybe after the battle, but not during/before.

there were bunch DURING the fight...

...or at least in the movie.


If the books are different, then i prefer Turbine to follow the movie.

Just my 2c.

[Jewl_of_the_lake]

there were bunch DURING the fight...

...or at least in the movie.


If the books are different, then i prefer Turbine to follow the movie.

Just my 2c.

This game follows the books not the movies, in the books the elves were fighting their own battles in Lothlorien and Mirkwood.

[whheydt]

there were bunch DURING the fight...

...or at least in the movie.


If the books are different, then i prefer Turbine to follow the movie.

Just my 2c.

You mean the Elvish Precision Drill Team that showed up? That's purely Jackson's idea...and one of the worst ones he had.

In the books--the ultimate source of Turbine's license--there is *one*, count 'em, *one* Elf present (Legolas), one Dwarf (Gimli), one non-Rohir Man (Aragorn) and NO Hobbits.

I suggest you read the books.

[Fionnuala]

I infer from the press release that what may be done is that we will be allowed to create a Rohirrim soldier who will fight at Helm's Deep when we have at least one level 10 character, much in the same way that anyone with a level 10 character can create a creep to fight in the Ettenmoors.

One of the interesting consequences of such a mechanic would be that relative newcomers to LotRO would be able to see "end game" content within an hour or two of starting to play, rather than waiting to level a character to 95. It would also create a situation where new players would want to buy the HD expansion, and indirectly create a desire to buy the expansions in between the base game and HD.

It is entirely possible--maybe even probable--that my conjecture is wrong, but I think it fits what is actually said in the HD press release and --unlike the conjecture that Helm's Deep is going to be a PvMP zone--no one from Turbine has come along to say that I'm wrong.

I think this is a great idea! I hope that's how they do it. Turbine has to know that if they allow other races at Helm's Deep there will be a huge backlash from the community.

[whheydt]

I think this is a great idea! I hope that's how they do it. Turbine has to know that if they allow other races at Helm's Deep there will be a huge backlash from the community.

Turbine is going to be criticized no matter *how* they handle the battle. That's a given.

Among their choices are: PvMP zone (already shot down, publicly, by Sapience), session play (unpopular with some vocal Forum denizens), raids (unpopular with other Forum denizens), and open world (unpopular with Lore afficianados).

There are already people who have expressed negative opinions of the idea of specially created Rohir soldiers to fight in the battle.

Basically, Turbine can't please everybody, but I think this solution will displease about as few as can be arranged *and* provide an incentive to players who don't have level-capped characters already (and some who don't *ever* expect to have any) to buy the HD expansion. Those two aspects make it at least a "not very much lose"/win situation for them.