Your thoughts on forum reputation

[Lestache]

Worthless as an indicator of poster quality. Priceless as an indicator of how well a demagogue someone is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people with high reputation are not decent members. I haven't gotten to that degree of self-loathing yet. It's just that the road to high reputation does not go through quality posting. It goes through playing to the crowds. Saying what the people want to hear. Low brow humour. Witty retorts. Criticism of Turbine. Criticism of other (preferably well known) forum members. Most of my reputation came from the things listed, instead of my actually helpful and informative posts. You entertain the crowds, they shower you with greens. That's all there is to it.

I'm glad it's going away. If it were up to me, we wouldn't have visible post counts or join dates either. All of these things are just distractions from the actual substance of the discussion and often contribute to prejudice.

There is one thing I liked about the reputation system though, and it was the ability to leave a message for that specific post. Simpler and quicker than a direct message, and cleaner than a +1 to the thread. That is one functionality I'd like to see them preserve if possible.

Sounds about right.

Regarding your last paragraph: I wish that had been encouraged and the practice of people posting "+rep!" discouraged (the latter to the point of being infraction-worthy, perhaps). I never understood the need some people had to publicly announce that they were giving someone rep - just click the little rep button, leave the comment there, and be done with it.

[Nymphonic]

Forum rep is going away with the revamp and I say good riddance. I've seen really rude forum members with a ton of rep pips, and that tells me something is wrong with the rep system.

Until a year ago, there was a group of people that would go around giving neg rep to folks that disagreed with them, especially in the off topic threads that would talk about the latest MMO. The thread about SWTOR in the month before it released was the worst. I remember getting neg repped because I gave positive rep to someone else. I never received any more neg rep from those guys after that thread, I'm guessing Turbine laid the hammer down on them.

Besides, everyone here pretty much knows who is rude and who makes logical posts, who loves the game, who hates it. In my humble opinion, and I'm speaking only for myself and not the community, I think the rep system is not needed and needs to go.

[Reximus]

I think a reason Rep didn't work here is because players here seem to have fairly strong, and often times immovable, opinions on at least one aspect of the game (lore, housing, PvMP, LOTRO Store, Forced Emotes, etc.). This makes rep a great "tool" for reinforcing one's own viewpoint while punishing another player for their opposing viewpoint

I suspect DDO, while a beloved franchise to be sure, has a lot more middle ground to it, allowing the tool to be used to punish behaviour instead of ideas.

[Urwendil]

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Almost since the very first day I connected to internet.... OK, that's just mythomania but for 13 years now I've been frequent on several internet fora. I've never seen any kind of reputation system work well.

I do use the system to give positive rep for helpful, informative or simply entertaining posts and I admit I'm childishly flattered when somebody reps me up, but my sentiments about its end has already been voiced: Good riddance!
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[lordglencairn]

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fora.
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+1 Rep

[The_Bruce]

I hate reps, they are pests always calling when your busy, never know when to shut-up and no-matter what it is, they all know better than you. Yes.....do away with reps...........all of them

[K'Arian]

It's a very interesting tale of two communities. DDO and LOTRO added reputation at the same time. For DDO the community mostly used it as intended and they are keeping the system.
Here, not so much. It is heavily abused, misused, and a popular griefing tool (rep up your friends so you get enough rep to neg rep peope who disagree or you don't like).

Tolero and I talk often about the dramatically different outcomes and use. Especially as the results were almost perfectly opposite of what we expected.

Thanks for taking time to comment Sapience It's a little sad that it did not work out as you had expected, as it sounds as though it is working on DDO. But it seems from the opinions of the posters here that it will not be entirely missed. Looking forward to the revamp

[K'Arian]

Some nice comments here, some showing some appreciation for the rep system, others giving their own experiences of it, and some suggestions as to how it all went wrong But I think one thing is clear, the majority of people will not miss it when the revamp of the forums hits.

thank you all for posting your thoughts

[Gareth420]

It's a very interesting tale of two communities. DDO and LOTRO added reputation at the same time. For DDO the community mostly used it as intended and they are keeping the system.
Here, not so much. It is heavily abused, misused, and a popular griefing tool (rep up your friends so you get enough rep to neg rep peope who disagree or you don't like).

Tolero and I talk often about the dramatically different outcomes and use. Especially as the results were almost perfectly opposite of what we expected.

Hate to say I told you so but I did. I remember you giving me a ton of infractions for pointing this very thing out. Nice to be vindicated after all this time.

[Kerin_Eldar]

The only thing that surprises me about this is that DDO's community doesn't abuse their rep. system .. so much for those who say LOTRO's community is the most mature around. Clearly, the abuse on here was widespread, I don't see the feature being dropped only due to a handful of abusers.

I recall when it started, within days small cliques had umpteen 'pips' from their +Repping each other .. PVMPers would probably call it 'clubbing' /rolleyes .. yet nothing was done to nip that in the bud, hence we ended up where we are now.

[K'Arian]

I can probably understand why the system was introduced, but in my short active time on the forums i can see how it has been misused. I think it was Fredalas that suggested it as a kind of social experiment, and although undoubtedly this was not the original intentions of it, it sure looks like one now. Nymphonics and Kerins examples of how groups would come together to either +rep or -rep posters highlight this as more of not what you know, but who you know, or more importantly who you do or do not like. I dont think anyone here has suggested that they will be sorry to lose it, so either those groups who did this are no longer active participants in the forums, or else they haven't shared their views on it as yet. I guess it matters not now as the system will be scrapped in the revamp, so I guess we will either resort to actually posting or sending pm's as a means to pass on kudos

[K'Arian]

actually, thinking more on this it does raise another question. What about titles that are bestowed on posters based on the number of posts they have made, for example, just got here, senior member or poster of note. These, although not directly related to rep, do give people an impression of the posters knowledge and or experience, but of course this is not always the case. What I mean is, just cause someone has the title, poster of note, could simply imply that they have made a ton of posts, whether or not they are constructive or pure trolling malice is not taken into account. does anyone know if these are being looked at or changed with the revamp?

Technical help forums come to mind, where posters have an opportunity to express whether or not a post or comment was helpful. Although it bears similar traits to the rep system, in this instance you are promoting the post/comment rather than the player themselves. Any thoughts??

Let me elaborate a little. Each thread comes with an option to decide whether or not it was useful/helpful and if a reader deems it so they can promote it by giving the thread (not the poster) a positive rating. That thread can then be highlighted as a thread worth noting. If not, then nothing changes the position of the thread remains the same. Could be a useful tool for players to find advice, a means to find a resolution to an ongoing issue they are experiencing or just a chance to find players with similar interests, queries or gripes

[Nymphonic]

actually, thinking more on this it does raise another question. What about titles that are bestowed on posters based on the number of posts they have made, for example, just got here, senior member or poster of note. These, although not directly related to rep, do give people an impression of the posters knowledge and or experience, but of course this is not always the case. What I mean is, just cause someone has the title, poster of note, could simply imply that they have made a ton of posts, whether or not they are constructive or pure trolling malice is not taken into account. does anyone know if these are being looked at or changed with the revamp?

Technical help forums come to mind, where posters have an opportunity to express whether or not a post or comment was helpful. Although it bears similar traits to the rep system, in this instance you are promoting the post/comment rather than the player themselves. Any thoughts??

Let me elaborate a little. Each thread comes with an option to decide whether or not it was useful/helpful and if a reader deems it so they can promote it by giving the thread (not the poster) a positive rating. That thread can then be highlighted as a thread worth noting. If not, then nothing changes the position of the thread remains the same. Could be a useful tool for players to find advice, a means to find a resolution to an ongoing issue they are experiencing or just a chance to find players with similar interests, queries or gripes

Well for me, I would like to keep the post count but not for the reason you might think. Being a major history buff, I love dates and statistics. That is why I would love to keep my post count, nothing to do with the forums.

[K'Arian]

Well for me, I would like to keep the post count but not for the reason you might think. Being a major history buff, I love dates and statistics. That is why I would love to keep my post count, nothing to do with the forums.

oh sure, I have no issue with the post count and I am sure there are other uses for it other than the one you have given. But more so the title that is associated with them. For example, you are known as a grand member, and this is based in the number of posts you have made to date. However, what if 12k of your posts where meaningless drivel aimed at nothing more than trolling? Does that warrant the title grand member? Maybe grand member is a bad example, poster of note is more applicable in this example. The title itself gives readers the impression that the poster should be paid attention, but as we know, this isn't always the case. but as i have said, the numbers themselves should remain

[Annariel]

<snip> I dont think anyone here has suggested that they will be sorry to lose it <snip>

Well, I'll be a bit sorry, because I'd hoped to one day gather enough rep to be able to give negative rep when I really feel it would be appropriate.

I think one problem with the current rep-system is that you effectively need to post quite a lot to gather a significant amount of reputation, unless you have enough friends to artificially bump up your rep count. However, I don't think that post count is all that important in deciding how much a person contributes to the forums, much less the community behind them.

As for the negative rep thing, the problem gets worse there. I think the most useful application of this would be for community members to be able to warn each other that 'hey, you're really toeing the line here, perhaps you could rephrase this a bit?' I reckon that at least some of the people who are good judges of this are likely to also think twice before they post - and end up posting less, giving them less of a change to earn positive rep... etcetera.

Finally, I've pretty much given up on giving positive rep because every time, I get the 'you must spread some reputation around' message... guess it's usually the same people who end up making a positive impression, even when I don't realize it's the same person.

[DelgonTheWise]

Removing forum reputation is a Slap in the Face to those of us who have worked so hard to earn the right to give negative rep! Other than the PVMP KB change, this is surely the greatest outrage in the history of the game. I'm out of here.

Yes, just kidding.

Forum rep seems pretty useless at this point. I look at the name of the poster rather than the rep myself. And while I gave some negative rep when I first got the ability, I rapidly slowed quite a bit. Honestly, there is almost no time you should give negative rep that you shouldn't just report the post anyway, which serves a better purpose.

Negative rep has its uses if people actually care. The few times I've received it I did re-read the post that got tagged and sometimes have moderated its tone. But can't say I'll be sad to see it go.

[K'Arian]

Well, I'll be a bit sorry, because I'd hoped to one day gather enough rep to be able to give negative rep when I really feel it would be appropriate.

I think one problem with the current rep-system is that you effectively need to post quite a lot to gather a significant amount of reputation, unless you have enough friends to artificially bump up your rep count. However, I don't think that post count is all that important in deciding how much a person contributes to the forums, much less the community behind them.

As for the negative rep thing, the problem gets worse there. I think the most useful application of this would be for community members to be able to warn each other that 'hey, you're really toeing the line here, perhaps you could rephrase this a bit?' I reckon that at least some of the people who are good judges of this are likely to also think twice before they post - and end up posting less, giving them less of a change to earn positive rep... etcetera.

Finally, I've pretty much given up on giving positive rep because every time, I get the 'you must spread some reputation around' message... guess it's usually the same people who end up making a positive impression, even when I don't realize it's the same person.

you make an interesting point about the need to post quite a lot in order to gain a significant amount of rep. I thought that too until I saw a few posters with more rep than me but with less than half the amount of posts. So while I may not agree entirely with that statement, it is a good one as it does represent a common belief.

This is one reason why I think a system based on threads rather than posters might make an improvement, albeit a slight one

Thanks for your honesty about providing negative rep. Yes I agree that there are infact times when it could be appropriate, but unfortunately it seems to be getting misused and I guess the easiest way to deal with that is to remove it altogether, which as you have kindly pointed out, does not meet everyones approval.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

[K'Arian]

look at the name of the poster rather than the rep myself.

quilty of this myself. I have found myself recognising names and reading a thread to see what pearls of wisdom certain people are sharing on a given subject.

thanks for your comments

[Sapience]

oh sure, I have no issue with the post count and I am sure there are other uses for it other than the one you have given. But more so the title that is associated with them. For example, you are known as a grand member, and this is based in the number of posts you have made to date. However, what if 12k of your posts where meaningless drivel aimed at nothing more than trolling? Does that warrant the title grand member? Maybe grand member is a bad example, poster of note is more applicable in this example. The title itself gives readers the impression that the poster should be paid attention, but as we know, this isn't always the case. but as i have said, the numbers themselves should remain

'Grand Member' is a direct reference to having posting 1,000 times. 1,000 = "a grand". It's simply a play on words.

[Sapience]

I recall when it started, within days small cliques had umpteen 'pips' from their +Repping each other .. PVMPers would probably call it 'clubbing' /rolleyes .. yet nothing was done to nip that in the bud, hence we ended up where we are now.

Much was done. Many continued to abuse it anyway. Funny you bring up the PvMP clubbing reference. it's a bit ironic when looking at the stats on the back-end.

[K'Arian]

'Grand Member' is a direct reference to having posting 1,000 times. 1,000 = "a grand". It's simply a play on words.

lol, ok I'll give you that one but I did say it was a bad example :P what are your thoughts on a thread based rep system Sapience? Has this kind of thing been suggested before?

[Whiteberry_Laurelin]

I have always felt the reputation system to be unreliable because of favoritism and abuse. I wouldn't be sorry to see the system removed altogether and see more encouragement from Turbine for people to read the content of the posts and reply to those rather than making it about the poster.

[Urwendil]

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'Grand Member' is a direct reference to having posting 1,000 times. 1,000 = "a grand". It's simply a play on words.

I suggest a "Gross member" for 144 posts -to outrage Hobbits if for nothing
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[Sapience]

lol, ok I'll give you that one but I did say it was a bad example :P what are your thoughts on a thread based rep system Sapience? Has this kind of thing been suggested before?

Top of the page. Click "Rate this thread". Been there for years. It is, to me at least, much more useful to rate the thread (and most people rate it based on the OPs comments) than rating each individual and each post they make.

Anything that isn't inherently possible in VBulletin would require plugins and code. Even if they are made and available it would require QA time and dev time to validate everything from stability across a distributed system to security. Plugins are going to be extremely rare additions going forward.

[K'Arian]

Top of the page. Click "Rate this thread". Been there for years. It is, to me at least, a much more useful to rate the thread (and most people rate it based on the OPs comments) than rating each individual and each post they make.

Anything that isn't inherently possible in VBulletin would require plugins and code. Even if they are made and available it would require QA time and dev time to validate everything from stability across a distributed system to security. Plugins are going to be extremely rare additions going forward.

to quote father Dougle Maguire "ahhhh brillllliant!!!", I never noticed that little button thanks for pointing it out I agree that it is a more useful tool and I will try to remember to use it, along with poster rep...at least until the revamp takes place