Mounted Combat 2.0: A Tale of Problems & Solutions

[HunterGreen]

However, I've never been able to do much MC at all because it literally makes me ill.

If you haven't already tried this, the simple trick of pulling your camera back as far as possible can help a lot with this.

[JuaQuins]

If you haven't already tried this, the simple trick of pulling your camera back as far as possible can help a lot with this.

I didn't read anything about hunters. I hope that means they will leave the hunter alone. Other than maneuverability, I quite like my hunter in MC. She is a beast out there.

[Grhysli]

I didn't read anything about hunters. I hope that means they will leave the hunter alone. Other than maneuverability, I quite like my hunter in MC. She is a beast out there.

Hate to tell you but they did make changes to Hunter MC also.........Hunters now have a trap skill.
It puts either a short debuff or a short fear on the mob that runs through the trap.
I found that in certain situations the trap skill can be quite useful & never had a mob bug out from the fear effect while I was play testing it on Bullroarer.

[Grhysli]

Disagree. Horses are bound by the laws of physics, and it would be nice to go back and correct the jumping of the original horses.

This is a game based on a fantasy world that doesn't actually exist so Laws of Physics be hanged........I want easier to control mounts! :-)

[Urwendil]

​
The "fantasy" world upon which this game is based was concieved as a distant past of our world.

Of course you are entitled to want whatever you want though
​

[Whart]

If you haven't already tried this, the simple trick of pulling your camera back as far as possible can help a lot with this.

Yes, already tried it, though I appreciate the suggestion . People have been very helpful with advice (I do love this community!), but I just can't seem to manage with keeping track of that much circular motion on the screen--no matter what I do I always end up feeling dizzy or sick to my stomach. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's my own problem and MC is just something I'm not going to be a part of. I just hope MC never becomes mandatory for progression. Maybe when the rubberbanding issue is fixed it will be a little easier.

[FromgalTheMinstrel]

Yes, already tried it, though I appreciate the suggestion . People have been very helpful with advice (I do love this community!), but I just can't seem to manage with keeping track of that much circular motion on the screen--no matter what I do I always end up feeling dizzy or sick to my stomach.

Please try this:
- Select enemy.
- Press X.
- Kill enemy while maneuvering around him with A or D. Keeping your distance.
- Once dead, select another enemy or if there are no more, press X again.

[Hjki]

I've recently attained lvl 75 and with an eager anticipation received my first horse ... I fell out of my chair in laughter at the antics of this beast.

Sorry 'devs', but have any of you ever seen a horse being ridden? Is there anybody within the whole of the dev's team anywhere within Turbine that has ever ridden a horse?

Maybe I'll invest some time in training this beast, but I doubt it will be before the coming update.


oh, and the latency lag is just atrocious.

[Vandervahn]

I am pretty sure the devs working on skills are not the same guys working on systems tech. So, while the skills guys bring a much appreciated update to MC, who says the systems guys are not also working on something to fix the rubberbanding? Turbine has a history of not always saying what they are currently working on at this level of detail.

True. But... oftentimes, one development stepstone is required for the next one. They can put all the bling they want on MC, as long as there is still a 15 horsepower two-stroke under the bonnet, its invariable going to continue to fall short. Personally, I´ve actually seen performance improvements in "foot play" since that dreaded U6. But MC was and still is torture.

Even if we disregard all the technical aspects, the long term problem with MC is that the warbands we had until now are bland. For my Captain, I could literally create a MC combat macro on my keyboard, go have a shower and let my old Gen1. G15 solo everything including the so-called raid bosses. And there is not a single word on THAT problem in this dev diary.

Well, there´s that:
We also made the decision to utilize area effects rather than “fellowship” effects. With open-tapping and remote looting, we’ve found that most people don’t need to join a fellowship to enjoy group content in Rohan. With that in mind, we didn’t want to restrict these effects to “fellowship only.”

If its not done in a fellowship, its not group content. Its just landscape stuff with more morale. And I am not sure what they mean by area effects. If its an Aura, things could work. If it is however a local hotspot buff, how is this supposed to work together with the so-called dynamic nature of MC ?

[ernieR]

Yes, already tried it, though I appreciate the suggestion . People have been very helpful with advice (I do love this community!), but I just can't seem to manage with keeping track of that much circular motion on the screen--no matter what I do I always end up feeling dizzy or sick to my stomach. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's my own problem and MC is just something I'm not going to be a part of. I just hope MC never becomes mandatory for progression. Maybe when the rubberbanding issue is fixed it will be a little easier.

sometimes i zig zag away from my target rather than circle around him , might work for you


the rubberbanding and lag encountered when using mounted combat is so bad that i rarely use it anymore . most of my riding between areas is done on my regular horse , on the warhorse i'm much too likely to end up somewhere completely different from where i want to go , or end up with multiple mobs beating on me because i agro'd them while i thought i wasn't close enough to do so , if i saw them at all .

[StrideColossus]

With a main as a burg I'm quite interested in MC v2.0 because it's currently somewhat underwhelming, hopefully these changes (and especially the new trick) should liven things up a bit.

I'm slightly surprised that the devs thought that burg DPS needed improving though, I've almost always taken the aggro on Bugud even if I've been taking down the adds first, unless there's a captain or maybe an LM in the area. But I'm not arguing

Sympathy for those still experiencing lag / rubber-banding btw

[Kerin_Eldar]

If its not done in a fellowship, its not group content. Its just landscape stuff with more morale.

Please, PLEASE tell that to those who complain about lack of 'forced group' leveling content and cite the decline of places like Nan Wathren and Dol Dinen as examples of FELLOWSHIP quests.

[0Pinger]

while the Burglar will earn a new trick, Impugn Character, that will cause enemies to turn on each other.

Seriously which idiot thought up that skill. Killing Kramp and its adds, then find I can no longer attack Kramp as its an ally of a Burglar. Can you devs think your way though a change without making idiotic changes like that.

[HunterGreen]

I think that one could be really useful if you use it on the Stickers, not on Kramp after killing the Stickers. Just got to figure out when and how.

[0Pinger]

Hate to tell you but they did make changes to Hunter MC also.........Hunters now have a trap skill.
It puts either a short debuff or a short fear on the mob that runs through the trap.
I found that in certain situations the trap skill can be quite useful & never had a mob bug out from the fear effect while I was play testing it on Bullroarer.

I used the fear trap just outside snowbourn on kramp, he made it to the far shore of the lake used for the fishing daily when I lost sight of him and gave up. So yes Fear/intimidation is buggy.

[Cliford]

Can anyone (I guess Doc, couse that signature I see under dev diary) of devs explain some changes with MC.
I don't understand why on light steed to go deeply into red line I need to invest points in max range of ranged skills. With last changes I have on my burg absolutly none ranged skills. Forcing me than to invest points in ranged skills is kind silly.
My second concern is class (yellow) tree. I see a lot of good work here. But according to dev diary, one of main problems was that players was forced to invest points into yellow tree, movement tree was just mandatory. Turbine decided to create choice for players. I am afraid you didnt succeed in this matter. Situation didnt changed at all, now yellow tree also seems to be mandatory (only content of yellow tree changed), so we still have no choice.

[Freyjo]

Please fix the lag/rubberbanding.....that is much more pressing....

Agree with this one 100%.

[GoldrushSE]

I've noticed since the last update that there is a delay after using "Spread of Arrows" that's twice what the other skills use.

For example, use one skill, 3 second delay, use next skill, 3 second delay, use "Spread of Arrows", 6 second delay...

Is this WAI or should I bug it?

Thanks!

-Goldrush
*******

[Nilsric]

Please fix the lag/rubberbanding.....that is much more pressing....

Agreed, just tried MC again after U11 and the lag/rubberbanding is just depressing.

You people at Turbine should be deeply ashamed this is still not fixed after so much time.

[commodore1]

Every time my guard mounts his war pig he stops being a guardian and becomes a very ineffective champ. I am so disconnected from my class on this thing that it no longer exists. horrible idea, horrible implementation! in my opinion the best thing you could do with MC is shelf it!

[Tiamo]

They say they rolled the yellow line of old into the steeds by default, but they lie. My light steed used to be able to outrun almost any foe. He was still flimsy enough that ranged foes could be a real threat, but he was able to stay out of melee if I chose. That was his main defense. Staying out of reach.

Now, he's slower; slow enough that pretty much all foes can catch him, and not agile enough to outturn any of them. The result is that I'm in melee almost immediately (made worse because as a Captain, using my ranged shouts forces the enemies to melee range), and then almost immediately dismounted (and dead moments later).

They've destroyed the playability of the light steed, as far as my Captain is concerned. I used to enjoy it. As usual, they have taken away something I was actually enjoying.

I guess I'm forced to go to a heavy steed the size of a dinosaur, since the medium steed is always surrounded by glowing things that break immersion.

How far the game has fallen. How far indeed.

[suprra]

Wierd, my light steed still does 16mps with dash, which is what it did before the update.

[Lyzau]

When Mounted Combat was introduced I gave it a fair benefit of the doubt and really got into it for a while. I enjoyed the cosmetic options, but alas had to forfeit being able to use them because of the price ranges. So that was a major disappointment.

Then I decided to just enjoy running around and doing warbands. I enjoyed that for a couple of weeks, but in the end got so tired of the nausiating feeling caused by the slipping and sliding that made me feel like ice skating rather than horse back riding, that I took a long break from it. For travel, even accross long distances I started to use my regular steeds again. In towns the warsteed isn't even an option as far as I'm concerned.

Curious about Mounted Combat 2.0 I started the new area in Wildermore. I rebuilt the trait lines on my warsteed and took off. After playing for a few days I cannot say that I've noticed much difference. I ride a light steed that seems slower now than it used to be, which doesn't really matter since I avoid full speed anyway because of the slipping and sliding. This sliding feeling has not disappeared or improved and it still feels awkward and unnatural to me. I wish warsteeds would just ride like regular steeds, where going left actually makes you go left rather than sliding off a cliff. It is worse when doing warbands with lots of players all at once. It's looks like a stop-and-go movie on my screen.

I run Lotro directly off my SSD drive and the rest of the game really runs like a charm, loads fast and I never have any lag anywhere, but the Mounted Combat skating really drives me nuts. It's a shame because I really do enjoy the new Wildermore region, where orcs are much more actively running around and attacking than in other areas. Unfortunely I do not engage them on my warsled 2.0, and when I do I just stand still or go in walk mode.

I love horses, but these warsteeds would do well visiting a different farrier who can make them actual horse shoes rather than roller skates.

[Shooby]

I agree with most posters here in that MC 2.0 is underwhelming.

When you are being rubber banded back and forth 20m, slight changes to the skill trees aren't going to be noticed.

When lag is at it's lowest I can enjoy riding my warsteed, but at other times it makes me feel physically sick, and that is no exaggeration.
I like the new area, quests and story but mounted combat technical problems are still spoiling it for me.

[floreane]

Given all the rubber band problems reported by so many peoples, I think the the Devs should make the difficult choice to let the server *thrust* the client far more, at least as long as the client don't report unbelievable movements like teleport 200 miles away. That is, currently the client says to the server e.g. "I move forward this speed and turn right", then the server responds with updated positions. At the same time the client make the same position updates. Then client and server side positions differs due to delays between client and server, and the client tries to conciliate by moving slitly his position towards the server one that he received at the last sync.

However, with the movement speed of horses, the sync is almost never done fast enough and the positions always significantly differs, thus introducing big problems as rubber banding and even sync differences when you try to jump over an object: the client says you succeeded, the server who received the info later says you did not.

Therefore, I think there is no other hope than to let the client send his character's position to the server, instead of sending each single movement and waiting for updated position as it is now. Naturally, there is a risk to promote the use of (I don't even know if it's possible) a tool that would modify the client in a way that would lift some of the movement restrictions in mounted combat, but well the server can still check if the movements required to go from one position to the next one are possible and compatible with the horse restrictions (speed and turning radius)

This way, the server thrust the client for horse movements, while still checking that these movements are reasonable and possible, which eliminates directly any rubber banding problem unless the client sent a new horse position that is not compatible with it's restrictions. This may even reduce a bit the charge over the server, I guess. Also, anything else remain the same, e.g. when you cast an attack, it's the server who decide if it's possible and when it triggers, based on the latest character position he received and checked. Moreover, in mounted combat any attack you cast is put in waiting queue if it's not immediately possible. Therefore, if you cast something that is possible for you but not yet for the server, then it's put in queue and activated next time the server receives and accepts a character position that allows it. That's fair enough, and positions must be updated often anyway.

I think there is no hope here other than thrusting the client much more. Otherwise, the horse speed would require to divide the connexion delays and server's delays by 2 or 3, which would cost probably too much. Moreover, it seems just fine if the server simply receives new positions and checks that they mean reasonable horse movements. It's even lighter to do.