The Road to Mordor: Could Lord of the Rings Online end in 2014?

[Alphros]

I've just seen the following thread on Massively.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05...e-end-in-2014/

Bit worried that LOTRO could be in for a closure next year. I hope someone from Turbine can clear this up, and confirm that there will be a licence extension to the game.

[manstan]

fifth one.

[Frisco]

There have been a number of threads on this very subject, with no Turbine response to date.

I'd wager most people playing the game have no idea that the license is about to expire, so if they *weren't* going to renew, the best thing to do would be to stay silent and let people keep buying Turbine Points.

Doubt we'll know until they decide to make the announcement one way or the other--renewed or shutting down. Do they have the rights *through* 2014 or *until* 2014?

[Bezmer]

I hope someone from Turbine can clear this up, and confirm that there will be a licence extension to the game.

Turbine declined comment for the article. It's unlikely we'll get anything in the forums from them, I guess.

[enginekid]

Tick tock, tick tock

[redwoodtreesprite]

Our family has been playing LOTRO since almost the beginning. Me and my hubby are lifers, our son has almost everything unlocked, premium account now. We will not invest much more real money into the game, and won't be buying this next expansion with real money. I will be buying the Gamgee packs for 4 of my free accounts, and plan to enjoy this game until it breathes it's last breath. It is in it's fading years I think, but much of the original game remains, and that part I will continue to enjoy.

But it is pretty obvious that Turbine is trying to get as money as it can from us, while at the same time cutting back more and more on content and quality of it's servers and such. Still LOTRO is not on life support just yet. Getting close though I fear...

[Ailedra]

Somebody reset the "Will LOTRO end in 20XX" thread timer.

[Kongas]

I fear we are in the end-game. The 'let's fix what isn't broken' revamp smells like a last throw of the dice to increase profitability to the point that will convince Warner accountants to extend the license without incurring the cost of major new development. hence no skirmishes, no raids, no instance clusters. Tweaking the game engine to make it just like other games is cheaper than developing new content. Maybe i'm just both jaded, deeply disappointed with the quality (if indeed that is the word i'm looking for, and it's not) of wildermore and dismayed at Turbine's determination to charge us for nothing more than a Helms Deep quest pack (remember FTP get the landscape, game mechanic changes and epic quest line free).

I think they know that Elder Scrolls and others are going to kill them. The old engine can't compete against the newer technology or the resources new games have thrown at them.

I'm a big, big LOTRO fan having played it for years and spent freely on TP. I want it to continue and succeed but LOTRO isn't a charity. If they are unwilling to deliver to their old standards or match the new standards of their competitors then I'll be reluctantly out the door. And no one can pretend that anything they have offered since, well moria and mirkwood, comes close to matching those standards.

[Ailedra]

I think they know that Elder Scrolls and others are going to kill them. The old engine can't compete against the newer technology or the resources new games have thrown at them.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong; it's a "time will tell" thing.

....but I'm just sayin', if I had a dollar for every time I was on an MMO forum and read "New MMO XXX is going to kill this current MMO YYY"....

[SavinDwarf]

Although I haven't seen the actual agreement, I've worked on a number licenses deals in a fortune 50 company where we licensed technology or other property rights from another company. In all my career I have never seen an option to extend clause that was not totally at the discretion of the licensee (Warner Brother in this case). Base on the press announcement in 2008 it stated the grant of license was through 2014 and with the right to extend to 2017.

This means that, as long as Warner Brothers sees LOTRO and a continuing product line, they can extend through 2017 with no further changes to the conditions.

I've also never seen a license agreement that did not at least in principle cover how the license might be extended beyond the dates stipulated in the agreement. If such language was omitted then there is a concept that the licensor cannot unreasonably withhold further extensions to a license. For example, perhaps they could double the yearly price, but they could 10x the price unless they could show that had an offer from another party to validate the new price.

Time Warner knows all about copyright and licensing. They have much more powerful lawyers at their disposal that then Tolkien Estate. The Tolkien Estate has shown itself to be somewhat unreasonable at times and that would hurt them in any court case.

The bottom line is that worst case if the license extension beyond 2017 was becoming a problem (because of Tolkien) and the game was losing money or break even, then they might not fight it. But Warner brothers has a reputation for not caving in this area and not giving in to bullying. Why? because if they cave even once then lots of people will start to play games with them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Warner Brothers extended the license through 2025 even if they stopped the game, just to make a point. they have a lot invested in six movies and perhaps some sequels and they aren't going to let little Tolkien Estates try and blackmail them and extort them.

Later,

Savin

[commodore1]

We could always hope that WB/bigt will let the license go and someone with drive, foresight and a whole lot of common sense took over and made it the game we all wished it was instead of what we have now. I'm sure there are companies out there chomping at the bit to get a hold of this game and make it profitable again. These same companies could give us(the players) info on what's going on especially when something on their end failed... instead of silence. There is just so much excitement in this thought for me I could ramble on forever. But this is my own personal dream, but I wish it for us all.

[mjk47]

Time Warner knows all about copyright and licensing. They have much more powerful lawyers at their disposal that then Tolkien Estate. The Tolkien Estate has shown itself to be somewhat unreasonable at times and that would hurt them in any court case.

Actually, WB/Turbine's license is from the Saul Zaentz Company dba Middle Earth Enterprises, who bought the rights in 1976 from United Artists, who in turn brought them from Professor Tolkien in 1968.

The Tolkien Estate is not directly involved in the LotRO license, although they have been suing MEE, WB, and New Line Cinema since November 2012. That law suit has the potential to materially affect LotRO, but pending its outcome, I would expect the status quo to continue, and the extension of LotRO's license past 2014 is therefore dependent on the ongoing profitability as perceived by the licensee (WB/Turbine).

I would not expect there to be any public announcements ahead of a final decision as that would have the potential of influencing any negotiations, and lawyers hate to conduct such things in the public gaze.

[TexN]

Does anyone else feel like the communication between Turbine and the community is kinda bad?

I would really like to hear what their future plans are, what their toughts are about the current state of the game and so on.

Feels like stuffs just happens, and they are lazy as heck. I wonder how many works at turbine.. 10ppl?

[Beast_of_War]

We'll find out.
It could happen, but it also could not happen. We have far too little information on the subject for accurate speculation.

[husaragi]

We'll find out.
It could happen, but it also could not happen. We have far too little information on the subject for accurate speculation.

true enough. i can get my tolkien fix elsewhere. im not sticking around and wasting any more time or money on this game...as it will likely turn out to be just waiting for the plug to be pulled. in my opinion it is going to be one of the few MMOs that actually does cease to exist. 2014 would be as good a time as any.

[Nymphonic]

I think they know that Elder Scrolls and others are going to kill them. The old engine can't compete against the newer technology or the resources new games have thrown at them.
.

1. Ultima Online

2. Everquest

There are probably other old MMOs chugging along that I cannot think of.

[Eartholloth]

I think they know that Elder Scrolls and others are going to kill them. The old engine can't compete against the newer technology or the resources new games have thrown at them.

LOL just like ones here were boasting on GW2 going to kill this game. Same ol same ol hyperbole garbage.

Just because that game will have a new engine doesnt mean everyone is gonna flock to it & love it.

[Eartholloth]

1. Ultima Online

2. Everquest

There are probably other old MMOs chugging along that I cannot think of.

Look at AC, that's still going.

[Lohi]

This is an old question. In fact it's been asked in previous years too! The license needs to be renewed is all and it will be essentially a rubber stamp renewal same as last time.

[Menathradon]

Does anyone else feel like the communication between Turbine and the community is kinda bad?

I would really like to hear what their future plans are, what their toughts are about the current state of the game and so on.

Feels like stuffs just happens, and they are lazy as heck. I wonder how many works at turbine.. 10ppl?

Sometimes a company isn't at liberty to tell the public what their plans are.

[Flixxer]

i also remember seeing a response of sapience saying that lotro would go on much longer... so i guess this fuzz is not needed

[Edrogar]

Oh it's this thread again ...

This subject has been beaten to death a million times on this forum, and dozens of articles on the same thing have been written on various gaming sites

Oh its it's that review again ...

I'm actually shocked massively left it so late to post that article, most of the other gaming sites, even the less known ones posted similar articles last year, massively have really let themselves go lately.

[Edrogar]

This is an old question. In fact it's been asked in previous years too! The license needs to be renewed is all and it will be essentially a rubber stamp renewal same as last time.

Exactly, license renewal isn't something that is always done months in advance and publicly. Usually these things are done last minute (well last month or so) with a quick signature and job done, it's only really new IP licenses that get hyped.

I doubt we'll even see more than a one line mention about it a couple of days before the extension goes into effect.

[Pelethor]

Does anyone else feel like the communication between Turbine and the community is kinda bad?

I would really like to hear what their future plans are, what their toughts are about the current state of the game and so on.

Feels like stuffs just happens, and they are lazy as heck. I wonder how many works at turbine.. 10ppl?

Well there is some truth in that.

If you take it from start. For me Codemaster Turbine was a successful cooperation. A solid game with zero problems and a successful expansion or even 2 if you count Mirkwood.

The counts F2p. In contrast of many i believe that was the right move cause made the game feel lively again,

After that Turbine went alone and with the Lotro store as her base of income you thought, ok lets see what she can do. I am not blaming anyone cause i dont really know what was at fault but truth be told lag,crash, and serious bug problems start coming into the game and made it feel poorly made. But still a pretty ok game for me(ROI). But you felt that Turbine cant handle it alone.

And then came Warner Bros. Be honest i was jumping when i heard that deal. A huge company with deep interest on the Lotr series backing up Turbine? How could this not be perfect? Since then though we had 2 very beautiful expansion for the eyes but the gameplay went just down street. And the main problem was , and still is,the serious playability issues (sorry for the bad english)
the bugs , the crashes. And after all that it comes out a very rush( made it in time for Hobbit movies), poor raid (Same graphic designs, simple game tactics, raid locks go away), and that for me killed the game. Cause how many people on this world are willing to play 50-100 times an instance to get a slightly better gear and the most of time only stay with one relic.

But where was Turbine? And in what degree was her say in this? Are they in secret funding and working on a greater work like a Lotro2 with Turbine? Are they simply don't care about a sinking ship? But then why bought Turbine?

And why the game went so poorly with all this investment last 2 years? Did it reach its limits (game engine)? Were there made some really bad decisions? Did they give that much to F2p for free? Maybe will never know.

Two things are clear though for me! The game is in declining, certainly not blooming. And second secrecy doesn't work for me. I understand the silence and i think its the right strategy to go. To put and end date before Helms deep would be money in the dumpster. But not knowing for me is the same thing. Even if the 3 years license is activated i am not sure if it would convince me. I mean that game in 2017 with how the technology progress... i Dont know.

Bottom line certainly not giving up on one of my favourite games but not sure if i ll invest real money either before i know certain things!

[Edrogar]

I mean that game in 2017 with how the technology progress... i Dont know.

Ultima Online was one of the first MMO's released, it came out in 1997 and is still running a fairly healthy service, that's 16 years.
Everquest came a little later, 1999, it's still running, that's 14yrs.
Asheron Call released 1999, it's still running, that's 14yrs.
Anarchy Online was released in 2001 and is still running, that's 12 years.
Dark Age of Camelot came out in 2001 and is still running, that's 12 years.

I think LotRO has a little while left yet.