why did turbine not make female dwarves?

[Pontin_Finnberry]

there are 4 races yet 3 can make female, but why not dwarf? i mean there are dwarf women in middle earth,
or reason is cause can't tell between male and female dwarf?

[manstan]

Very old topic, you need to read the books. In the books only dwaves could tell which was female and which was male.

[Dotlbeme]

Complain to JRR?

According to Gimli, only Dwarves can tell the difference, so if you want your Dwarf to be female, it is.

[Sapience]

Go to the character creation screen and take a look at something different about Dwarves. We didn't make "male" Dwarves either. It's the only race that doesn't give you a gender option.

As mentioned above, according to the Professor you can't tell them apart. So your Dwarf is exactly what you think it is. Whether or not anyone can tell.

Also, for the record, they were originally identified by gender in the original SOA beta. The player base pointed out the lore points on distinguishing the gender of Dwarves. We changed the character create options accordingly.

[manstan]

Just give it a female name and dress it accordingly, I did.

[Rosiebelle]

We are out there if you want to find us - and you don't have to look too hard! Both my girls (Posienell and Rosiebelle) are fairly hard to miss. I would like a few more girly options though. Just a few beard ribbons and a few dresses that don't make my bum look so big. Maybe a pink beer mug.

[RJFerret]

I have yet to find a single male dwarf, all I've seen have had luxurious feminine hair (on their faces), whisky voices, and some of them like flashing their chests at males of other races.

[Kaynith]

Nice explanation for why there is no gender option.

However, one must wonder why Dwarves are the ONLY race that get THIS option:

http://cstm.mymiddleearth.com/2012/1...sted-cosmetic/



Wear that on your so-called 'female' dwarf. I double hobbit dare ya.

So whether your original explanation of genderless Dwarves is valid, and I do think it is, the addition of this store item completely blows that explanation out of the water.

Does anyone really want to see Marybella Stoutbeard proudly displaying this? I know I sure don't.

[LethalLethality]

Nice explanation for why there is no gender option.

However, one must wonder why Dwarves are the ONLY race that get THIS option:

http://cstm.mymiddleearth.com/2012/1...sted-cosmetic/



Wear that on your so-called 'female' dwarf. I double hobbit dare ya.

So whether your original explanation of genderless Dwarves is valid, and I do think it is, the addition of this store item completely blows that explanation out of the water.

Does anyone really want to see Marybella Stoutbeard proudly displaying this? I know I sure don't.

Because it seems male and female dwarves are anatomically the same aside from the reproductive organs. When Tolkien says females are indistinguishable from males, I would immediately think that they are built the same aside from reproductive organs. Otherwise, they are distinguishable at first glance if they have breasts while the males don't.

[Damojo]

Wear that on your so-called 'female' dwarf. I double hobbit dare ya.

So whether your original explanation of genderless Dwarves is valid, and I do think it is, the addition of this store item completely blows that explanation out of the water.

Does anyone really want to see Marybella Stoutbeard proudly displaying this? I know I sure don't.

Given that we have no idea whether dwarves lactate or have breasts, because I'm pretty sure JRRT never discussed same, it may be entirely appropriate.

[Cazthelm]

Dwarves are what you want them to be :P (as others already said)...

So if you feel uncomfortable with one gender, you can change it!
Dwarves are the only ones with that... ahm... special ability

[Koroeth]

You can stop arguing, i came to solve all your problems regarding dwarven ladies. All what was needed was one fishing afternoon in Celondim.
Take a look:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3473/yffy.jpg

[Nuelenion]

Given that we have no idea whether dwarves lactate or have breasts, because I'm pretty sure JRRT never discussed same, it may be entirely appropriate.

Large breasts are not required for lactation, also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

Considering their creation story, I can see why dwarves would be mostly indistinguishable beyond sexual organs. Honestly, it's kind of a neat idea.

[Khafar]

Also, for the record, they were originally identified by gender in the original SOA beta. The player base pointed out the lore points on distinguishing the gender of Dwarves. We changed the character create options accordingly.

Yes and no. What we were asking for was for dwarves able to tell each other's gender, but non-dwarves cannot. This was deemed too complex to pull off properly (and it would have all sorts of corner cases), so we wound up with dwarves where nobody can tell the difference and it's just up to the individual player to say one way or the other.

Khafar

[Rainothon]

Ah. Lactating dwarves.

Wait a second please while I get a good strong Belgian Trappist and some peanuts.

Okay, done.

Please continue. Do dwarves lactate molten rock?

[Pontin_Finnberry]

i have read the books and the hobbit, but its been along time since i last read them,and i see now why theres no option for dwarves thanks all.

[greendarner]

My dwarf guardian was "conceived" as a female, and has a female name, though the rest of the population probably doesn't realize it's a feminine name. I chose the "prettiest" options at creation. I theorized that the "Longbeards" females would probably not be quite as hairy as the males, so I chose one of the shorter options for a beard, with some decorations included. "She" never corrects others who refer to her as he/him. She doesn't wear dresses (heck, my female humans are rarely in dresses, the elves a little bit more often, but still not generally their garb of choice).

Unfortunately, I keep forgetting to call Jodis "she". Blearg. I fail as a role-player, a lot of the time. My take on it, though, is that gender is just not the defining issue for dwarves as it is for other races. I figure the females reach sexual maturity fairly young (for dwarves, they live a long time). Possibly their reproductive years are short (again, relatively speaking) and they get their children produced and on their own fairly quickly. Possibly marriages/matings are family arranged, and based on alliances and property. I further theorize that once the children are produced, the females free to pursue whatever interests them. Possibly many are interested in the "pretty shiny" things, clever toys and intricate jewelry, but enough choose to pursue the martial arts as to make it an unremarkable choice. Maybe most the dwarven hunters are females, being somewhat more agile than most males. Sadly, lest someone insist that I have it all wrong, I have to reiterate, these are just my own musings and what-ifs on the female dwarven population.

I haven't paid any attention in a long long time, but NPCs in the game always refer to a dwarf character as "he". This falls under "other races can't tell and make assumptions". Also, with the advent of Mines of Moria, a great many of the phrases spoken by the NPCs have a feminine tone.

[Cheery]

You can stop arguing, i came to solve all your problems regarding dwarven ladies. All what was needed was one fishing afternoon in Celondim.
Take a look:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3473/yffy.jpg

Thanks for the image. My dwarves (female) feel vindicated.

[Ingiogal]

Go to the character creation screen and take a look at something different about Dwarves. We didn't make "male" Dwarves either. It's the only race that doesn't give you a gender option.

As mentioned above, according to the Professor you can't tell them apart. So your Dwarf is exactly what you think it is. Whether or not anyone can tell.

Also, for the record, they were originally identified by gender in the original SOA beta. The player base pointed out the lore points on distinguishing the gender of Dwarves. We changed the character create options accordingly.

Sapience, I love ya man, but I have to disagree you. Please don't hate me. What Turbine may have intended is not what Turbine has created.

When my dwarf, Zolana, who is very girly and looks especially fetching in pink, is automatically "Son of Skorsten" when Skorsten adopts her, and similarly Skorsten is only "Father of Zolana," you've made all dwarves male no matter what other justifications are given. It could have been gender-unidentifiable per lore and made all dwarf adoptions only bestow the "Child of Parent-name" or "Parent of Child-name" title but instead we only get male titles from adoptions. So, when a dwarf uses the game-supplied pedigree titles, everyone can tell gender even when the title tells it wrong.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know what they say...

IMO, the more lore-correct version would have been to allow players to self-identify the gender of their dwarf toons but give no unique-to-gender cosmetic options in player creation or within game. So, for example, there would be no option to go without facial hair for dwarves. No gender-distinct pools of hairstyles to draw from. The sliders would not be different for body mass between male and female dwarves, etc.

Much love, Sapience. Kiss, kiss. And, for Mrs Sapience, I don't mean anything by this. I just want to keep the Big Cheese happy with me.

[Sapience]

Sapience, I love ya man, but I have to disagree you. Please don't hate me. What Turbine may have intended is not what Turbine has created.

When my dwarf, Zolana, who is very girly and looks especially fetching in pink, is automatically "Son of Skorsten" when Skorsten adopts her, and similarly Skorsten is only "Father of Zolana," you've made all dwarves male no matter what other justifications are given. It could have been gender-unidentifiable per lore and made all dwarf adoptions only bestow the "Child of Parent-name" or "Parent of Child-name" title but instead we only get male titles from adoptions. So, when a dwarf uses the game-supplied pedigree titles, everyone can tell gender even when the title tells it wrong.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know what they say...

IMO, the more lore-correct version would have been to allow players to self-identify the gender of their dwarf toons but give no unique-to-gender cosmetic options in player creation or within game. So, for example, there would be no option to go without facial hair for dwarves. No gender-distinct pools of hairstyles to draw from. The sliders would not be different for body mass between male and female dwarves, etc.

Much love, Sapience. Kiss, kiss. And, for Mrs Sapience, I don't mean anything by this. I just want to keep the Big Cheese happy with me.

You make an excellent point. You're right. It should say "Child of" and "Parent of". I spoke to the team and they suggested putting in a bug with those suggestions. Make a note in it that I mentioned you should bug it. They'll take a look (and changing the titles, not adding selections to the Character select).

[Eartholloth]

I just want to keep the Big Cheese happy with me.

ROFL... big cheese... too funny

[Ingiogal]

You make an excellent point. You're right. It should say "Child of" and "Parent of". I spoke to the team and they suggested putting in a bug with those suggestions. Make a note in it that I mentioned you should bug it. They'll take a look (and changing the titles, not adding selections to the Character select).

My feet are like wings, sahib. Your wish is my command. I live only to serve... yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm sure you're getting the point now.

The bug report has been submitted with our two forum posts quoted inside. I submitted it with the "Other" category because there aren't any classifications that seemed to fit better. I submitted it while logged in as my dwarf Zolana because we Ingiogal toons strive for clarity.

[Cybelline]

My feet are like wings, sahib. Your wish is my command. I live only to serve... yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm sure you're getting the point now.

The bug report has been submitted with our two forum posts quoted inside. I submitted it with the "Other" category because there aren't any classifications that seemed to fit better. I submitted it while logged in as my dwarf Zolana because we Ingiogal toons strive for clarity.

Well that escalated quickly Nicely done. Greg Street never moved that fast. Props to Turbine.

[Worldgorger]

It's the beards...

[Tathlethril]

*Waddles in and tilts head in a peculiar state* I...am not sure where this thread went but I think it is time to cut our loses!