Dying Rage

[spelunker]

Yes.

They need to rework all racial skills. Some of them don't offer enough to stay competitive.

Whil I dint think "last stand"ing dieing rage is the answer, they do need to change the skill. Maybe 75% damage reduction, and useable when below 50%. The thing about it right this second, is it gives you the old melee/ranged/tactical defense stats. If they just wanna change the defense to mits, and lower the cd to 2 mins so wl can just save bubble for that I'd like that also... Regardless, skill needs change.

2 minute cooldown seems a bit excessive, even with death on expiration.

[Thorandril]

2 minute cooldown seems a bit excessive, even with death on expiration.

indeed, 5-10m would be more appropriate but in keeping with the death-on-expiration idea it should absolutely give the reaver an unkillable state. outside of pure morale stacking to the brim the skill has been ridiculously hard to manage for years now. not that its difficulty is a bad thing, but pointless is more a word I would use instead.

[Lao10]

Every burg with decent gear that I consider good at their class, has to make at least some self-nerf concessions (and i'm not talking about long cooldown skills) to get a 'fair' fight with a top rank/played reaver. By fair i mean wins vs losses seem about even. Being in a 'raiding kin' or having the class as your main since Shadows of Angmar Closed Alpha does not mean you know how to fight a reaver appropriately. I mean no offense by this, but burglars beat top tier Reavers all the time, if you find it nearly impossible it means you are missing things, whether that is movement, knowing how to counter reaver skills, using the appropriate debuffs, or whatever else. That you've never seen a 'bad' gambler burg also isn't helping your case, there are numerous examples of 'bad' players out and about on every class, using every stance, and every trait-line, every day. Not being able to see this means you are likely missing a lot.

Just to be clear i’m not saying I get rofl stomped. My opponent will always be on 3-4k or so. Listen, I believe generally burglars are in a bad place in pvp at the moment. Consider this sparring a reaver;

He uses ATO, I cant stun him
He uses wrath the only choice I have is to Hips for 10 seconds of his 30 second wrath. If he is ranked in anyway then he knows to use blade toss before wrath otherwise it will get kited off.
I use knives out, the animation is disgustingly obvious and he kites me for 10 seconds.
He uses Dev Strikes, my heal is negated by 50%
He uses impale, there is sweet FA I can do. I sparred a R9 reaver last night who hit me for 2.8k and 750 damage per dot. Which is 5800 in one skill. Come on I mean what the hell is that. I have 11.1k morale, that’s 52% of my morale in one hit.

Being in a 'raiding kin' or having the class as your main since Shadows of Angmar Closed Alpha does not mean you know how to fight a reaver appropriately.

This was only said to illustrate the fact that I have played burg for a long time, I know my skills, rotation etc etc

[spelunker]

Just to be clear i’m not saying I get rofl stomped. My opponent will always be on 3-4k or so. Listen, I believe generally burglars are in a bad place in pvp at the moment. Consider this sparring a reaver;

He uses ATO, I cant stun him
He uses wrath the only choice I have is to Hips for 10 seconds of his 30 second wrath. If he is ranked in anyway then he knows to use blade toss before wrath otherwise it will get kited off.
I use knives out, the animation is disgustingly obvious and he kites me for 10 seconds.
He uses Dev Strikes, my heal is negated by 50%
He uses impale, there is sweet FA I can do. I sparred a R9 reaver last night who hit me for 2.8k and 750 damage per dot. Which is 5800 in one skill. Come on I mean what the hell is that. I have 11.1k morale, that’s 52% of my morale in one hit.



This was only said to illustrate the fact that I have played burg for a long time, I know my skills, rotation etc etc

you mean resilience not ATO, and it lasts 5 seconds, add a pot and they can counter 2 of your stuns, you should be able to get off more than 2 in a fight.

Better to tng if they pop wrath than hips, 30 seconds where you cut your damage taken by 50%, and cut their heals in half seems like a far better counter to wrath than hipsing and popping out of stealth. Not to even get started on the fact that blade-toss' slow lasts the same duration as hips, so even if you get popped out from dots, there is no reason you shouldn't be WELL out of melee range, and able to outrun them for the duration of wrath anyway.

if you feel the need to KO, wait for them to use resilience, and then stun afterwards, kiting solved.

Carrying enough morale so that 1 impale crit doesn't bring you to under 50% morale is a pretty important concept. If you do this, Glee will outheal their DoTs and damage skills, which means you'll have time to eat 2 impales before you get dev striked, meaning you have over 40 seconds to kill them, since you aren't going to even get dev'd by dev strike for 5k.

If i didn't already state it, I don't play a burg, but between trick kiting, improved disable, and a wide variety of other options, I've seen a number of good burgs win the vast majority of fights against reavers when trying. The above is my perspective in response to the problems you pose.

some good CD free killing of reavers can be found here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Burg-1v1-video the OP plays a darn good burg, and they'd probably be happy to speak more specifically about the nuances of fighting reavers.

None of this is to say reaver v burg is an easy fight for the burg, but it is consistently winnable, and I know when I'm on my creeps I'm probably less confident fighting a good burg than just about any other freep.

[Yelloweyedemon]

DR was bada$$ untill SoM. When RoI launched, things changed too much, and the skill was not updated, resulting on it being totally left behind.

Also every r0 reaver being able to buy the skill instantly from store, DR from an awesome and so feared skill from freep point of view, became the sign of a run-away baby.

To the point, I don't think it needs to copy cappy's LS to be viable. Super high mitigations and avoidances along with 200% run speed and CC immunity should work.

[Birdflies]

So after reading this thread, I've been experimenting with DR a lot. Offensively, it is just fine, not to say OP. Today I hit an Impale for 5k total on a ranked mini during DR, when he only had 2 dots on him. Being immortal for the whole 15s of DR would be way OP, just too much. Imagine a raid scenario, having a couple of reavers on DR that are immortal for 15s would be devastating. And even solo, it would just ensure you get the kill unless he has a skill like flop or LS.

However, I do agree that many times you can get hit twice after you hit DR, and be dead, especially from RKs, which is not right after popping a 10 min CD that ensures your death. What I would suggest would be one of the following:

Greatly boost the defensive bonuses on DR.
OR
Make DR usable below half morale, instead of 1/4.
OR
Add a heal upon using DR, of about 2-3k, enough to live a bit longer.

It goes without saying that the skill should break all current CC and make you completely CC immune. I count the fact that DR doesn't break CC as a bug, not an imporvement that should be done to the skill.

[poxnoxious]

Today I hit an Impale for 5k total on a ranked mini during DR, when he only had 2 dots on him.

To be honest, rank means nothing these days, besides you mention nothing of OPs. I do though wholeheartedly agree with you. We don't need no Last Stand effect added or some such.
So, a run speed buff, some increase in defence, a 10-15% of total health heal and make it usable from 1/2 instead of 1/4 of morale pool. The CC immunity goes without saying.
That's my two coppers anyways.

[Pirato]

DR is already a very powerful skill in combination with impale. So why do you all want to improve a powerful skill? Just to kill a freep against 10+ enemies and being op? I just lol'ed! Since my last post in this thread my highest dmg output with DR + impale even increased to a 8k devastating hit against a burg. So show me your range and tactical classes who want to stand it. And as I already mentioned with against all odds healing + 1 rank 9 bottle you can even stand an epic conclusion. To my mind it is already op if you are able to kill a freep against 6+ and I do this every day (rarely, but it works), no matter against what classes.

The only thing to say about DR is that's a bad skill for a defiler. 15s +50% heal is quiet cool but compared to the reaver's advantage nothing but a bad joke (quiet apart from the fact that charge isnt a defiler skill). So what really needs to be revamped is DR for defilers and not for reavers.

[Birdflies]

To my mind it is already op if you are able to kill a freep against 6+ and I do this every day (rarely, but it works), no matter against what classes.

I got to transfer to your server now! In BW if I have 6 freeps on me I go from 5k (1/4 health) to dead in a split second, not nearly enough time to do anything.

Anyway, joking aside, I am going to go ahead and change my previous opinion. The skill is fine as it is. Yes, sometimes you will use it and die withing 5 secs, even with pot/ato/wrath and against a single freep. But honestly, that only happens against dps classes, and only if they get really lucky with crits. So they are ussually squishies that go down really fast, and maybe 5 secs is enough.

So yeah, the skill is fine.

[Faildget]

Hit DR, get rooted, pot, recilience and brand on cd = epic win.

Dr is not worth slotting nowdays, unless your in a server where you actually have a chance of a small fight, meaning you vs 1-2.

[Pirato]

I got to transfer to your server now! In BW if I have 6 freeps on me I go from 5k (1/4 health) to dead in a split second, not nearly enough time to do anything.

Killing someone out of 6+ is not as easy as it seems to be (but it's definately possible). It depends always on the situation (but not on classes). Sometimes you are able to hide for a second behind a tree / stone whatever that only a few can hit you and you can use DR without dying instantly. During DR melee dmg is almost useless and then you have the possibility to kill 1 light / medium armour with a few lucky hits before dying. But that depends on how many wounds you've prepared before using DR to not waste your time for stacking wounds while DR is running.
In addition to the "lucky hits" it is as well important that at least your impale is a critical hit for ultimate burst dmg.
When saving your pot + against the odds it is even easier. I just checked both heals 2,4k pot and 4,7k against the odds (Rank 13 incoming healing). Using both right after running DR your hp is at ~10k and you have a few seconds more to do your best.

So there is a chance to kill someone out of 6 but even now there would be the possibility that 2 intelligent rk's saved there epic conclusions to finish you (provided that both are critical hits) and you'll die and all your CDs are wasted. But that's the way it is.
Against only one target there are just 2 possibilities (using every heal you have): you die, because the 15s are over or he dies, because you killed him.


BUT (that's not addressed to you Birdflies but to those who want an improved DR) with an effect like last stand (not dying for 15s) or mightily improved mitiagtions you will definately kill 1 out of 6+ in most cases. That would be totally op.

Hit DR, get rooted, pot, recilience and brand on cd = epic win.

With against the odds the CD of resilience will be resettet, so pls don't tell me that you are not able to counter routing. lol And pls don't tell me, that your against the odds is always on CD as well. For sure it is possible that it is on CD but in most cases it's better to save it to support your DR skill.