When to expect Update 12.1?

[TheMustelidian]

Wow, you're going to be completely disappointed

I am sorry to hear, I must then put up with what is given. You are an honorable messenger, would you care to join the cheerful brotherhood of the Mustelid? We have need of honorable messengers.

[doug01]

We don't disagree really. How bout if I simply had said "I don't want to see healing marginalized just to make killing easier to make point acquisition easier because that has all the complexity and entertainment value of farming"

?

You'd still be wrong.

PvP is PvP. Bad or good, easy or hard, if your opponent is trying to kill you and/or survive its not farming, at best you can QQ over balance issues.
Farming is Farming. If your opponents are willfully and predetermined surrendering to you its farming.

[Snowlock]

Was hopeful audacity would be gone. It's a barrier to lapsed players returning. Hope to see it gone one day

[Snowlock]

You'd still be wrong.

PvP is PvP. Bad or good, easy or hard, if your opponent is trying to kill you and/or survive its not farming, at best you can QQ over balance issues.
Farming is Farming. If your opponents are willfully and predetermined surrendering to you its farming.

Lol if you say so, partner. But really you've completely missed the point and I've tried twice to explain my point to you.

[mrfigglesworth]

@mrfigglesworth

The topic to me is this desire on the part of the community for lack of complexity for the sake of expediency.

You say complexity, but in my opinion with the current level of freep healing there is absolutely zero complexity to it. Just outspam incoming damage. I'm not sure why you think having godlike insane heals makes things more complex. I'm all for more incoming healing debuffs for each side to counter this overhealing effect. what say you to this?

To your point specifically, healing to kill faster to get points faster. I am more concerned with the quality of the fight than I am about points from it; always have been.

What's to say that when healing is lowered that quality of fights goes down? I mean, I remember the best fights being when I wasn't sure who was going to win because we were losing people and so was the opponent. Quick decisive choices actually make a difference in those types of fights. Healing stalemates, or one sided healfests aren't very appealing to me, and have never been quality in my eyes. So I say we should rid ourselves of them.

[Yelloweyedemon]

From those patch notes, all I saw, is just fixing gamebreaking bugs, and adding another grind, without big changes. I'm sorry, but if you think this will keep players playing "pvp" in lotro you're soooo mistaken. All creep classes need a massive rehaul, like the one freeps got. 30% more damage to freepside (current bugged audacity fixed), is not gonna make any difference. My hunter with the best gear currently available, in red traits, with BH from stealth dev'ed a spider for 8.3k with upshot. Upshot was supposed to be THE burst damage skill, and all hunters can do in red line is burst damage in the first 5 seconds. If I dev (with 2 relics 7.5% dev mag.) a spider for 8.3k from the total 54k, while he can full heal while on burrow, then not sure what I'm supposed to do. Maybe rename to useless?

Also what about perma-MT, perma wrath, stupidly long CD's on hips n sprint, creep tracking vs freep tracking.. etcetc.

Like I said creeps need a massive revamp. Not sure why we should wait 6 months for it to happen when "we" paid a full 40$ for the expansion.

[Thorcar]

Wow, you're going to be completely disappointed.

12.1 is now live on Bullroarer and the preliminary release notes are up: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

The character copy sticky on the Bullroarer forum is still referencing a My LOTRO site. Are character copies open and where is the new page?


EDIT: never mind, found it https://www.lotro.com/en/character_copy

[Snowlock]

You say complexity, but in my opinion with the current level of freep healing there is absolutely zero complexity to it. Just outspam incoming damage. I'm not sure why you think having godlike insane heals makes things more complex. I'm all for more incoming healing debuffs for each side to counter this overhealing effect. what say you to this?

Quote me where I said we need freeps to have godlike insane heals, and if you can't, maybe you should try to tone down the hyperbole.

I'm all for incoming healing debuffs for each side to counter healing. Some of the most fun I've had in years was in the beginning of ROR before the nerfs when ranked creeps had high incoming healing. There was/is a transfer tribe on Brandy called Dark Impulse and they'd come at my six IR with their own. Which was so awesome because never would creeps on my old server or the new one come at us even numbers, or competitive numbers, except these guys, even during this brief period of ROR. And they beat us consistently because we couldn't kill their healers. Did we quit? No. Did we come crying to the forums for nerfs? No. Did we alt-stack for a target forward healing RK's which we knew would be all it took? No. We discussed strats amongst ourselves to figure out how to overcome their healing. We were building for the -inc healing audacity sets. Unfortunately the creep nerfs hit before we finished, but we were doing things to fight them; strategizing, theory crafting, working toward a goal. OMG, in LOTRO, what a crazy concept, right?

Back in the oft-referenced Book 6, when creeps were getting one shotted, what the creeps cried about most on the forums wasn't crits. It was CC. The reason why was because for as much as they hated being one-shot critted by hunters, they enjoyed critting others themselves. So instead of trying to correct the real problem, they decided to grind the same old axe they'd been grinding for a year... Freeps have too much CC blah blah blah.

So Turbine left crits in PVMP where it doesn't belong, and instead all but removed CC over the years freepside until its basically a joke. When that happened, alot of complexity was removed as well.

In other words, its a slippery slope... Remove CC, remove healing, remove npcs, remove this, remove that.. Eventually we will be standing still and using one skill to kill the guy in front of us and call that PVP.

[Rhedry]

Quote me where I said we need freeps to have godlike insane heals, and if you can't, maybe you should try to tone down the hyperbole.

I'm all for incoming healing debuffs for each side to counter healing. Some of the most fun I've had in years was in the beginning of ROR before the nerfs when ranked creeps had high incoming healing. There was/is a transfer tribe on Brandy called Dark Impulse and they'd come at my six IR with their own. Which was so awesome because never would creeps on my old server or the new one come at us even numbers, or competitive numbers, except these guys, even during this brief period of ROR. And they beat us consistently because we couldn't kill their healers. Did we quit? No. Did we come crying to the forums for nerfs? No. Did we alt-stack for a target forward healing RK's which we knew would be all it took? No. We discussed strats amongst ourselves to figure out how to overcome their healing. We were building for the -inc healing audacity sets. Unfortunately the creep nerfs hit before we finished, but we were doing things to fight them; strategizing, theory crafting, working toward a goal. OMG, in LOTRO, what a crazy concept, right?

Back in the oft-referenced Book 6, when creeps were getting one shotted, what the creeps cried about most on the forums wasn't crits. It was CC. The reason why was because for as much as they hated being one-shot critted by hunters, they enjoyed critting others themselves. So instead of trying to correct the real problem, they decided to grind the same old axe they'd been grinding for a year... Freeps have too much CC blah blah blah.

So Turbine left crits in PVMP where it doesn't belong, and instead all but removed CC over the years freepside until its basically a joke. When that happened, alot of complexity was removed as well.

In other words, its a slippery slope... Remove CC, remove healing, remove npcs, remove this, remove that.. Eventually we will be standing still and using one skill to kill the guy in front of us and call that PVP.

I wasn't playing then but... perma roots and infinite stacking Dust seems kinda lulz. Unless that was pre book 6? Regardless, I agree with most of what you said.

Also... #DarkImpulse4Life :~

[mrfigglesworth]

Quote me where I said we need freeps to have godlike insane heals, and if you can't, maybe you should try to tone down the hyperbole.

It was nothing you ever said, it was simply implied by your resistance to my suggestion that healing was over the top, and in order to counteract that we needed to deal with over the top healing. This is now only a problem on freepside. Sounds like you were hoping freep healing stayed as overpowered as it currently is. Sorry if I was mistaken.

I'm all for incoming healing debuffs for each side to counter healing. Some of the most fun I've had in years was in the beginning of ROR before the nerfs when ranked creeps had high incoming healing. There was/is a transfer tribe on Brandy called Dark Impulse and they'd come at my six IR with their own. Which was so awesome because never would creeps on my old server or the new one come at us even numbers, or competitive numbers, except these guys, even during this brief period of ROR. And they beat us consistently because we couldn't kill their healers. Did we quit? No. Did we come crying to the forums for nerfs? No. Did we alt-stack for a target forward healing RK's which we knew would be all it took? No. We discussed strats amongst ourselves to figure out how to overcome their healing. We were building for the -inc healing audacity sets. Unfortunately the creep nerfs hit before we finished, but we were doing things to fight them; strategizing, theory crafting, working toward a goal. OMG, in LOTRO, what a crazy concept, right?

Ok, I agree -incoming healing is a good option. As long as any strategy has a counter, such as heal stacking. It's a shame you had to get emo on me before agreeing with my previous post that already brought this up Another option is to cut down on heals. Cap crit multipliers and heal crit multipliers, whatever it takes to never allow one side to be nearly impervious to death.

In other words, its a slippery slope... Remove CC, remove healing, remove npcs, remove this, remove that.. Eventually we will be standing still and using one skill to kill the guy in front of us and call that PVP.

You do realize slippery slope is a false argument, correct? Kind of like calling others' arguments farming.

[Armdyl]

From those patch notes, all I saw, is just fixing gamebreaking bugs, and adding another grind, without big changes. I'm sorry, but if you think this will keep players playing "pvp" in lotro you're soooo mistaken. All creep classes need a massive rehaul, like the one freeps got. 30% more damage to freepside (current bugged audacity fixed), is not gonna make any difference. My hunter with the best gear currently available, in red traits, with BH from stealth dev'ed a spider for 8.3k with upshot. Upshot was supposed to be THE burst damage skill, and all hunters can do in red line is burst damage in the first 5 seconds. If I dev (with 2 relics 7.5% dev mag.) a spider for 8.3k from the total 54k, while he can full heal while on burrow, then not sure what I'm supposed to do. Maybe rename to useless?

Also what about perma-MT, perma wrath, stupidly long CD's on hips n sprint, creep tracking vs freep tracking.. etcetc.

Like I said creeps need a massive revamp. Not sure why we should wait 6 months for it to happen when "we" paid a full 40$ for the expansion.

Its really Not That Big Of A Grind to get the new gear. did you do that damage on test server or current broken live moors? the burst damage...your not ganna hit 20k+ don't except to be god mode when your a hunter. iv seen a hunter rip creeps a new one on live with the bugged audacity and weird dps damage type. if he burrows and heals just take off as hes a wuss. Stupidly LONG Cd's on sprint and hips? not seeing the problem here? 3minute cd on both untraited. only problem I see with wargs conserning inductions is the 3 sec traited eye rake. and if you fight a BA that relies on The Cd of MT then hes a greenie or its a decent ranked that should be frowned upon by creep community and freep side. we paid 40 bucks for Pve. the pvp is just a plus that gets put on the back burner on occasion. never the less I enjoy the pvp no matter what it gets put thru the good and the bad.

[Snowlock]

Ok, I agree -incoming healing is a good option. As long as any strategy has a counter, such as heal stacking. It's a shame you had to get emo on me before agreeing with my previous post that already brought this up

I've been called alot of things on these forums... emo is new lol. But seriously, scroll up and reread.

You do realize slippery slope is a false argument, correct? Kind of like calling others' arguments farming.

Nah. After I hit R15 I was in this raid and it was a huge fight. There must've been a hundred players total there at the fight at old EC crossroads. So we were fighting and fighting and I'd die, get rezzed, turn and focus burn another creep or three, die, get rezzed and over and over it was happening. And I noticed it was happening on both sides and all throughout the raid I was in. It was just this never ending cycle of killing and rezzing. Killing and rezzing. No complexity at all. No care given to how to conduct this fight. Just kill the guy in front of you, until you're dead, get rezzed, do it again. Neither side was ever going to wipe out the other, or "win", they were just going to kill and kill and kill until eventually it didn't even feel like "killing" it felt like continuously clicking a button to make a green bar reduce itself. That's what we were reduced to. More accurately, that's what this game has reduced us to. And that was the last time I pvp'd; late summer I think.

Its like Pop music. You take out anything that could possibly be offensive to someone to cast the widest net for mass consumption, and it just comes out blah.

And then you compare that drool enducing faceroll to what this game can be at its best, and that's why I thought what I did when I read the first post of yours I responded to.

@thragguk.. It was before Book 6. Unbreakable roots were actually creepside and they didn't last long. Unpottable roots were freepside, but they broke on damage, at least in my experience which would be SOA Book 10 forward. Stakable dite was pretty rough, but the thing no one seems to understand is, and maybe my longevity is giving me a different perspective than others, the forums are as full of complaints now, as they were then long after stackable dite has faded into LOTRO lore.

If you think about alllll of the changes turbine has made to PVP over the years and then look around and see that it sure seems as if people are at minimum as unhappy as ever, if not more so, you gotta ask yourself: has any of it made any difference? I would say the pvmp game that we have now, is far and away the very worst we have ever had because despite all the inequalities and pendulum swings, it was never boring. And it is now. And I just don't want it to get worse.

[Widmore]

12.1 is now live on Bullroarer and the preliminary release notes are up: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

Somebody over at Turbine, specifically whoever wrote: "Some NPC’s enjoyed their roles in Helm’s Deep so much they apparently cloned themselves."....
...owes me a monitor cleaning and a cup of coffee.

Nice to see this type of patch note writing has made a full come back.

[Yelloweyedemon]

Its really Not That Big Of A Grind to get the new gear. did you do that damage on test server or current broken live moors? the burst damage...your not ganna hit 20k+ don't except to be god mode when your a hunter. iv seen a hunter rip creeps a new one on live with the bugged audacity and weird dps damage type. if he burrows and heals just take off as hes a wuss. Stupidly LONG Cd's on sprint and hips? not seeing the problem here? 3minute cd on both untraited. only problem I see with wargs conserning inductions is the 3 sec traited eye rake. and if you fight a BA that relies on The Cd of MT then hes a greenie or its a decent ranked that should be frowned upon by creep community and freep side. we paid 40 bucks for Pve. the pvp is just a plus that gets put on the back burner on occasion. never the less I enjoy the pvp no matter what it gets put thru the good and the bad.

Upshot is not gonna even reach 20k numbers? That's what I understand from what you've said. If so, then red line is pretty much useless. Upshot is supposed to take a huge % of someone's morale in one hit, considering it needs to crit, it has a long cd, and leaves the hunter focus-less. Even 20k on 55k+ creeps in not enough. After upshot, red hunters are same as before the update, but now they can't really fight in melee since needfull haste does not prevent induction setback anymore.

Anyways, I don't wanna make this a hunter Qq issue, the cd's I mentioned are a general problem. Perma wrath, perma MT, burrow aka full heal on 55k spiders, *i meant short cd's on sprint and hips before*, and stealth tracking, which freeps have no access into at the moment.

This is just to name a very few that just come to mind at the moment...

[The_Being]

Even 20k on 55k+ creeps in not enough.

Yet at the same time elsewhere, some freep complains how 5k of 20k is too much.

[Overlordnakh]

Yet at the same time elsewhere, some freep complains how 5k of 20k is too much.

It is when that 5K is done by a ranged attack from a Reaver

I wonder how a 60k Reaver would react to a 15K arrow from a Guardian's crossbow

[Ghosttaker]

New armor is going to ruin it out there. All that AND audacity. Just give us mits and crit defense, forget the audacity. The creeps are the ones that need it due to our dps. Make cc duration tied to rank and fold into BPs. Increase creep healing.

The only freeps complaining right now are whiners, and ones who don't fully understand their class or how to function in a group.

[Overlordnakh]

The only freeps complaining right now are whiners, and ones who don't fully understand their class

Good call. If only they understood their class they could have figured out how to mitigate the unmitigated Orc-Craft and Fell-Wrought damage. They could have found a way to unlock the secret level 95 PVP gear from the invisible vendor at Ettenmoors. They could have attacked Creeps in the sweet spot of their armor and penetrated through the bugged audacity. If only all Freeps fully understood their class as you do.

[Ghosttaker]

Good call. If only they understood their class they could have figured out how to mitigate the unmitigated Orc-Craft and Fell-Wrought damage. They could have found a way to unlock the secret level 95 PVP gear from the invisible vendor at Ettenmoors. They could have attacked Creeps in the sweet spot of their armor and penetrated through the bugged audacity. If only all Freeps fully understood their class as you do.

I said give us mits. Audacity is being fixed with the update. What part of READING do you not get? Any freep with have a brain that wants to be rational about it instead of a finger-wagging whiner, knows that once these two BUGS are fixed, the introduction of that gear is going to bring it right back to where it was. I'm gonna stop there, anything else I have to say to you is gonna bring out the banhammer.

[Overlordnakh]

I said give us mits. Audacity is being fixed with the update. What part of READING do you not get? Any freep with have a brain that wants to be rational about it instead of a finger-wagging whiner, knows that once these two BUGS are fixed, the introduction of that gear is going to bring it right back to where it was. I'm gonna stop there, anything else I have to say to you is gonna bring out the banhammer.

Creeps will still have triple the avg Freeps morale but Freeps are not going to have triple the Creeps DPS

Do the math Einstein

There was no mention of reducing Creeps health pools or increasing Freeps in the next update. Creeps are actually getting a boost to heals

[Rupture1]

"Update 12.1 features more than 500 bug fixes"

how so many bugs get through beta?

[Yelloweyedemon]

Yet at the same time elsewhere, some freep complains how 5k of 20k is too much.

5k on what? Blade toss? Is blade toss and Upshot really compared? One is a ranged slow on a melee class, the other is the best burst skill on the game. Also most freeps are bellow 20k.

Think before you post.

[Yelloweyedemon]

"Update 12.1 features more than 500 bug fixes"

how so many bugs get through beta?

Because revamping Bree for the 12389473489 time, and adding more stuff on the store is more important.

None read feedback from beta. It is 90% a waste of time. It is not "testing".

And of course you have certain people who insist on how awesome the renown/infamy change was. (RoR beta, yay thanks guys)

[Overlordnakh]

"Update 12.1 features more than 500 bug fixes"

how so many bugs get through beta?

"Sell now, fix later "

Imagine if Turbine sold cars and then told the customer "We have discovered over 500 flaws in your new car. Please come by the shop and we will work on it"

Ridiculous

[Thorandril]

5k on what? Blade toss? Is blade toss and Upshot really compared? One is a ranged slow on a melee class, the other is the best burst skill on the game. Also most freeps are bellow 20k.

Think before you post.

there's actually a 3rd offscreen for 3.5k as well, only 63% of my morale on a ranged slow from a melee class. nbd.