Ask The LOTRO Team – Answers to your questions – February 6, 2014

[Galuhad]

That's polemic.
SoA and MoM make ALL the people happy. And we are talking about 3 years. Surely not "all of the people happy all of the time" but long eneugh.

I loved SoA, but Moria didn't make me happy, so your statement is incorrect, sorry.

[SabrielofLorien]

All the answers and the discussion around them leads me to another question: Could someone tell us how many people at Turbine are really working full time for Lotro? How many artists are still there, how many coders? From what I read in the beta forums, there are just a few left, and those stll around have multiple tasks to do. There simply isn't a dev team anymore that could develop instances and expacs, I fear.

Probably only a few, because you can meet our old friend Jeffrey Stiefel, advertising for the new Turbine Game "Infinite Crisis".

afaik Employees at Turbine work on multiple projects at the same time. Just like many software folks in other industries, they work on multiple tasks and have a back log of more things to-do when one of those tasks pop off the list. There maybe be a few that are "dedicated" to just one project but for the most part they multi-task.

If you were around for the old days we had the impression of a "dedicated class dev" but now there are many devs working on a class, although there is a project leader that we may still think of being the "dedicated class dev".

In addition, there are the different departments, and each has to provide their piece of the puzzle. Some are on the critical path and some are not but all the pieces have to be in-place for something to be released. Things don't always work as planned or expected of course. Nothing ever does.

But generally it's a group/team effort to produced what we see. They are their own fellowship in a way and each has a role to play in delivering us the story and the game experience. Sometimes it's not the experience we anticipated or expected. Whether it's enough for a particular interest group is up to them to decide.

[Eklabondood]

Q9: Are you planning a major Ettenmoors update during 2014?
A: [HoarseDev] – We’re presently working on shoring up some of the fundamentals (long overdue stat updates). We are also prototyping some new stuff. No promises, but I want to see if we can get catapults in there

Just stop, don't change the Ettenmoors anymore, unless you're planning to get rid of the outpost buffs or switching back to the original layout.

[Silmelin]

This is a PvP suggestion to Turbine from someone who doesn't PvP so only listen with half an ear

If a new PvP map is a bad idea because it will be too hard to find any action due to not many players, but people who have been playing on the same map for years are getting bored with having the same layout forever, maybe a new map could be made not to get added to the old one. Instead replacing the old one, and after a year or two, could be switched back to the old one, and then back to the new again, etc. etc.

Yeah I know, it's probably a bad idea but my thought was to get some new sights to see for the PvP people, while still not making the area too big to find any action, and also still have a use of the old map which I find very beautiful with it's nice blend of nature

[motumbo]

All looks like good stuff! Except a couple questions... I assume a PvP pass would be for creep side?? As a freep can come in at 95 when he is f2p ?? Right...this idea would seem to lose Lotro some $$ because they can already buy creep classes on store... unless of course the price of ticket would be the prices of all creep toons combined... so would there be a real point in doing this??

What would be the utility of catapults?? For siege?? The keeps are already broken and brittle as it is?? Are we going to focus on some other issues such as the uselessness of fighting in keeps ( minus backdoor) . I believe the NPCs have hit at least the same for a couple years now ( or just how minimal their damage is) to put this at point... you have feeps and creeps soloing keeps... Should that even be possible?? 1 person shouldn't be able to zerg a keep in reality... so it seems keeps are failing in that matter.

Would you be open in putting a few more OPs out there ( like 2) that could give defensive benefits

Is move EC and OC back to original spots possible ??

But finally, to go back to adding catapults.. and not to be a hypocrit by saying something against what I asked earlier... but why are we trying to make new things when there are bigger things in PvP that are failing now??

Sorry for all the questions!!

Thanks
Cintona

[Bel-Astarte]

All looks like good stuff! Except a couple questions... I assume a PvP pass would be for creep side?? As a freep can come in at 95 when he is f2p ?? Right...this idea would seem to lose Lotro some $$ because they can already buy creep classes on store... unless of course the price of ticket would be the prices of all creep toons combined... so would there be a real point in doing this??

Actually, the opposite-creeps have one free class, Reavers. Freeps must subscribe currently to have access to the Moors, level cap or not.

What seems to be under discussion is a way to unlock Freep play w/o subscription. Two options might be to have a higher ticket price to unlock completely, or a lower investment for say, a week's pass at a time.

[frickinmuck]

Says you. You are not all people. Are you telling me that absolutely not one single player perhaps dropped their sub during SoA and/or MoM? Are you telling me no one ever complained about anything during that time? O.o I think you are looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, because that simply isn't true.

I was there and I can tell you there was arguing then, too, and lots of it.

But finally, to go back to adding catapults.. and not to be a hypocrit by saying something against what I asked earlier... but why are we trying to make new things when there are bigger things in PvP that are failing now??

The dev clearly said that they are working on stats, and balancing was discussed as well. So any catapults or other enhancements would come in addition to the "fundamentals" HoarseDev said he was working on. Let's all stop pretending that they're ignoring everything else so they can add a couple catapults, it's flatly untrue and it's just another bit of drama and disinformation for people to argue over.

Way way back during Moria I think, some dev hinted that there was some look towards thinking about maybe having a new PvP, possibly, sometime, but don't hold your breath. Ever since then people have been waiting for a map. I remember there was excitement on the moors about this (remember that there are many creeps who never play anywhere else in the game except that one zone). Over time that excitment became disappointment, then anger over broken "promises", then feelings of being discriminated against, outright accusing Turbine of "hating" PVP players, etc.

Frankly at this point I doubt there will ever be a new full PvP map. Possibly I could see a mini-zone or space, ala another delvings, maybe a pvp skirmish, but not a full blown zone as there aren't enough PvP players for it. To make a full zone work they'd have to shut down the old zone, otherwise the pvp player base would be split, not enough to defend both zones, etc.

If I were Turbine I would do some reworking of the existing map, maybe rework the delvings and throw that bone, and as for the new map issue, common sense would state that regardless of what may or may not have been said before, now is no time to be adding a new map. A new map is crazy talk. Focusing on that is just flogging a horse that's been dead for years. Pointless.

I think this is exactly why Turbine is hesitant to say what they may or may not be working on or what they'd like to work on until they know for sure it's coming at some point. There's always gonna be a group of people who see it as a declaration of promised content who will then go on to hold it against turbine from that day forth.

No kidding. People complain that the answers are vague, well, enjoy it. It's the situation you yourselves have created.

[Cheery]

So by answering 42, does the LOTRO team now think they have comprehensively given us the answer to life, the universe and everything this time?

I don't think that you asked the wrong question: I think you asked the wrong people. They're not Marvin, you know. Nor are they Slartibartfast. I don't think there is a single fjord in Middle Earth.

[Cheery]

After everything we have seen and heard for at least the last year, anyone still harbouring genuine hopes of new traditional instances, large new areas or any significant changes to Ettenmoors is frankly deluded.

This game is being run on a skeleton budget by a skeleton staff while Turbine focuses its efforts on Infinite Crisis. There's only so much money to go around and old games get the leftovers not the choice cuts.

The devs we have are doing their best in an impossible situation. There aren't enough developers, designers, testers or support staff. The hardware has zero additional tolerance (and frequently exceeds it in Ettenmoors).

This isn't to say that the producers of LOTRO escape all criticism. They may have been given crumbs to turn into a meal, but they then proceeded to blow what little they had on wholly unneeded additional tech (Big Battles) when skirmishes/traditional instance mechanics would perfectly well have done the job, plus a dramatic revamp of the classes which no-one was asking for and which will most likely not be fully worked through for years.

The LOTRO of 2007-2010 (pre-WB) is gone and not coming back. Players have simply to decide whather what we have is worth their time and money or not. I suspect that the answer to that depends largely on how attached to Middle Earth you are. If you're not a Tolkien junkie, well 4/4/14 awaits you. If (like me) you are then you'll most likely stick around, making the most of the occasional bone the accountants and producers allow our dedicated devs to throw us.

Sad. More and more, this seems to be true. I am a Tolkien junkie and will probably stick around. But it's still sad. What will happen on 4/4/14?

[Cheery]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

#1: Turbine cannot produce traditional endgame content. This would obviously be due to things already mentioned in this thread, namely budgetary restrictions and lack of staffing. If this is the case, a simple and direct notice of this would cause all the uproar and 'negativity' to end. Well, perhaps be redirected, in any case But those who are still hoping for such things would no longer feel the need to do so.

#2: Turbine is choosing not to produce traditional endgame content. This could be for any number of reasons, but most likely would be because they believe there are better profits to be made focusing on other content.

I think most everyone, even those on the Turbine staff, would agree in candid moments that what is coming on the horizon is not going to bring in enough new income to turn #1 around. certainly not as far as endgame content is concerned and creating enough of a revenue stream to begin creating it again. Thus, a simple post saying that no new instances/raids/traditional end game content are in the future, even the 'foreseeable' future, would help crystallize the direction things are going in the minds of many, and help them make their decision whether to remain or leave. Obviously, there are many good reasons for Turbine not to do that, and I would not expect one to be forthcoming any time soon.

If, instead, #2 is the reason, I think those of us who want to see that sort of content have an outright responsibility to voice that desire here, as often as we can (within reason).

It has been stated, many times, that Turbine uses surveys, usage patterns and the forums to determine the type of things they should be working on with regard to their customers' desires. The Trait Tree changes were said to be brought about due to these very things, though I do not recall seeing many, if any, threads asking for them, and I may have missed them as I only visited the forums very rarely before the sweeping changes that have been made recently.

In any case, absent an 'Official Feedback' thread about this subject [which would really be nice! ], or a player-wide survey, this forum is our best, and only way really, to make clear how widespread the demand for content of this type is, wouldn't you say? I simply know of no other way. Polls are not allowed, or allowed only as a 'negative' lightning rod. What other way is there to voice our opinion? The only other ways that I can think of is to either stop spending money on this, or to leave entirely, and neither of those is something anyone involved in this dilemma wants to see.

This is purely anecdotal, but I am seeing far more posts, from far more individual posters, who are wanting to see this type of content than those who posted about wanting the skill changes we have seen. If #2 is true, this is our best bet of showing that Turbine may have misinterpreted their data and misrepresented the number of those interested in it.

If #1, I think a simple post saying no more of this type of content is planned would take care of things. There would be a flurry of angry posts from people leaving, I am sure, but it would be over with quickly, with no more reason to dwell on the issue.

I love these lands, and I want to be here forever. I want there to be something for everyone here

I respectfully agree with this post. While I fear the answer is #1, I hope for #2. Turbine can hardly afford to admit to #1 because more people would leave. However, while #1 may be true now, it may not be true in the future (2015 - 2017).
If the answer is #2 or if #1 is not planned to be permanent, it behooves us to continue to urge what we would like. End-game raids in which you earn the gear in tier 1 that allows you to tackle tier 2 in which you earn the gear needed for the challenge is what will bring most of my kin back to LOTRO.

[Namesse]

Sad. More and more, this seems to be true. I am a Tolkien junkie and will probably stick around. But it's still sad. What will happen on 4/4/14?

4/4/14 is the release of The Elder Scrolls Online (TESO or ESO).

[Octaviane]

In regards to a player survey, I believe it would be somewhat futile simply because the majority of players do not read or use these Forums, just as those in Kinships with their own Forums don't use them. So, it would then be only representative of a relatively small number of LoTRO players and the feed back would be mostly negative judging from the many posts in this forum that only speak to the bad.

When I started playing LoTRO I was glad of the opportunity to try it out as F2p. I subscribed fairly soon after and have no problem paying a monthly sub at all. For $15 a month (actually $10 because I get $5 worth of TP) I can play when I want, 24/7 if I want and on as many different servers as I want, pretty cheap entertainment imho. The game is not perfect to be sure, but I challenge anyone to tell me what game is. If games were perfect you wouldn't see mass exoduses to other games after new content was released and finished in 24 hours or less.

The mistake I believe Turbine made was in making this game totally F2p. No offence meant or intended. It might have been better to give new players a 30 day free trial (no credit card required). It shouldn't take longer than that to figure out if you like a game or not and you then have the choice to subscribe or not. Offering a reduced price 3 month sub was a great idea ($30 vs $45) can you still get that? We all have the option of dropping our subs or just leaving if we don't like the way the game is being developed and moving on to something else, or, we can stick around and help try to make it better by giving constructive criticism to the Dev team that we do have. I am sure they groan every day reading some of the posts here, perhaps even have a good laugh, I don't know, but seriously, they don't have an easy job, whichever way you look at it.

Despite its current problems, LoTRO remains one of the better MMO's out there unlike so many other flash in the pan type games. I am glad to see no new content for 2014 and hope that Turbine/WB will make a concerted effort this year to resolve many of the genuine issues that have been encountered.

Like others, I get bored with LoTRO and don't log in....for a couple days anyway. I always come back though and I probably always will and before anyone jumps in with "you must be satisfied with boring", I find nothing boring because there is always something new to discover or experience whether it be in a game or real life.

[Mar-Evayave]

I was there and I can tell you there was arguing then, too, and lots of it.

I came in when 65 was the level cap, but I heard there was a lot of unhappy customers around the MoM time. I can't remember what the specifics were, though.

Sad. More and more, this seems to be true. I am a Tolkien junkie and will probably stick around. But it's still sad. What will happen on 4/4/14?

Yeah, it's ESO's launch date. I know my kinnies eagerly await this date. However, as ESO will be VIP-only (at least to begin with) I will be left behind. I can't afford multiple subs, I can't afford to pay for a game I may not like, and I can't afford to pay for a game I may not even be able to run. Too many unknowns for my pocketbook.

[Ilhsul]

I was there and I can tell you there was arguing then, too, and lots of it.

If I remember, at that time there was a lot of 'passion' but it was mostly about radiance gating. It was NOTHING compared to now.

I'm honestly not interested in other MMOs but at the same time, refuse to be an accessory to Turbine's murder of the game. They (or rather WB) should not be rewarded for their current disinterest and lack of investment. The only other MMO I play is Eve - when CCP stated their would be no investment for the next 18 months there was a massive in-game 'protest' which made them reverse their decision. I wish sometimes this great (if somewhat sleepy) community would stage similar events because at the moment it feels like WB are taking advantage of our insouciance. With all the MMOs coming out with new and innovative mechanics LOTRO is soon going to look old-hat. Knowing this, on what planet does delivering tiny updates at this critical juncture make sense?

[Wyvernclaw]

I used to be an endgame player then I took a lack of new raid to the knee. HD has been a disaster expansion for me as a Guardian all the bugs took the wind out my sails and the lack of something to tank really just finished me off, I have subbed for this game for six years but today I cancelled it mostly out of pure disgust at how us end game players are being brushed aside. I have very little to say that is positive regarding the proposed changes in the next update so I will keep my opinion to myself as what I'm thinking is far from polite. I love The Lord of The Rings one of my favourite stories so I will be playing for the epic line etc. but I see no reason to keep throwing money into this every month I rarely go to EM which was practically the only bonus VIPs got over F2Pers, so yeah an occasional payment to buy quest packs etc is all you will be getting from me now not likely to get that anytime soon mind you I have enough TP for two full expansions on my account. ;-) Now a new raid would probably cause me to sub again but while Turbine keeps taking me and all my fellow end game players for fools well they can go swivel on it.

[solo1376]

Let me sum up:

Revamping old regions...for what? New players? (Maybe the old ones are too discriminating? :P). Sounds like you´re not interested in your old followers

Most answers sound like: We will do something, sometime, somewhere...maybe...but it will be gorgeous!!

PvmP: A quiet honest answer in my opinion: PvP is dead, there will be no new map or any other "real" feature; just some cosmetics and new ideas for shop-addicts

Respective raids etc.: Two words: No Challenge.


I know you guys got to earn money und conditions (of development) have changed since 2007 but THIS sounds like you take us for fools, sorry

Not sure but it looks like my post got deleted. It's basically just this ^. Anyway, my kin is dying a slow death. Good times. Thanks for making sure end gamers and raiders get no new content.

[robbie1435]

You may want to lock this forum, because regular users can post new threads in here. Might should make it dev only .

Speaking of twitter chats: When is the next one?

[robbie1435]

For the love of god just give us some new raids. You're losing many players. We need something that tests our new skills and power we have. Or at least do something with mounted combat. I'd be great to see something to appeal to your raiding base.

Lunchie .

Maybe in 2015... No raids this year, 12-18 months to develop them anyhow.

[Hayden102]

wow.. 2014 for lotro looks great! ty turbine

[Thornelas]

Thanks for these answers, however for Q21, I'd rather see access to more than 2 custom chat tabs than more chat channels. It's no use adding more custom chat channels if you can't keep track of them...

[cyprusphil]

Based on Q10-15 it would appear that Lotro has no intention for group content for 2014. That's extremely disappointing seeing that there is no expansion that is being worked on. Overall, I personally feel that lack of new challenging group content is the reason the game has been fading.

I would say however that if you're not going to use the year for group content then consider redoing the scaling of the entire game from moria through now.

Scaling from level 1-50 was a linear progression in terms of dps on a weapon/gear. There are huge jumps between 65-75 and 85-95. It would seem to me that the easiest way to scale anything is linearly. By modifying the scaling to random increases it would seem to me to make it difficult to scale instances.

BTW using the bronze single hand weapon items as an example here is a list of what the dps would be given linear scaling using the 1-48lvl crafted items as baseline.

DPS
lvl7 = 7.9 (actual)
lvl48 = 34.7 (actual)
lvl65 = 45.9
lvl75 = 52.4
lvl85 = 59.0
lvl95 = 65.5
lvl176 = 118.6 (assuming item level)

From a scaling standpoint most scaled instances are boring because the mobs are too easy. No matter what class; you shouldn't be able to solo a 3man at level.

Also, there needs to be a rethink of crafting xp as you basically craft yourself out of lower levels just to keep up with crafting going into the next area. As a result you basically have no need to do any questing till you hit level 20ish.

[yafga]

[QUOTE=Mar-Evayave;7095127]My thoughts, as they come to me, and wiithout reading anyone else's comments.

Super awesome that Update 13 will not only have a ND revamp, but also Trollshaws and the Misties!

Super NOT happy about an "Ettenmoors Pass". Turbine, if this goes live, I'm likely going to drop my sub. Freepside PvMP is the only reason I sub. Hey, if the Passes are cheap enough and not going away, then I might use them, but there is zero point in me keeping my sub if the Moors can be so easily accessed without it.



Are you for real??? You rather pay monthly for this pvp? rather than just buy a pass? Ettenmoors is NOT Worth a monthly subscription ! Just stack up ur tp and buy pass, then unsub. I can see no reson to keep ettens vip only, because they dont work on it.. They cant even get some decent balance between classes -.-

[Mar-Evayave]

Are you for real??? You rather pay monthly for this pvp? rather than just buy a pass? Ettenmoors is NOT Worth a monthly subscription ! Just stack up ur tp and buy pass, then unsub. I can see no reson to keep ettens vip only, because they dont work on it.. They cant even get some decent balance between classes -.-

Gotta look a little closer. I did not say I'd rather pay monthly. What I said is that I wouldn't keep my sub. If this update goes live there is a 95% chance that I will drop my sub. If I can just get in via TP, then I'd rather do that. The VIP system is getting devalued. Sapience has rumored that VIPs are getting stuff added to their subscription, but hasn't stated what that will be.

I have no need to stack up TP. I have almost 20k TP (and that's after spending over 2k just a few days ago on more storage and whatnot). That's the whole point. I have TP ready and available, and if the "pass" isn't gonna be an arm and a leg, why keep my sub anymore?

[Valkrist]

Lunchie .

Maybe in 2015... No raids this year, 12-18 months to develop them anyhow.

Well, I do not know that this is absolutely true. It seems to be their normal procedure for going about them, but if they were to throw more developers than the usual 'raid-making' team at them, I would think it could be shorter. Maybe even a great deal shorter. Here's to hoping they see the need!

Also, that is just for 'raids', I would guess. 3 and 6 person instances would take much less time. So would something like the Erebor 'raids', I would imagine.

[TheCrossbow]

After taking ample time to review this round of Q & A, there are a few specific thoughts and observations that come to mind. I think I will list them in a Pro/Con fashion...

Pros:

> Older regions being revisited. - While new content is always exciting, it is helpful to keep the "older" things updated. Making the parts of the game that are designed for solo play more solo-friendly is a smart move. Hopefully, these revamps will not completely remove too much of the classic "group" areas... perhaps by making them "skip-able" more than they are now.

> Nice to see that kinships are finally starting to see some "love". This is long over-due, but I do hope this love includes some of the tools we've been longing for.

> Orthanc in the works to be scaled is acceptable. It will at least add another cluster of instances to the list of things to do.

> I don't PvP but it is good to see that aspect getting a little bit of attention. But, I wonder how well catapults will play considering the higher amount of lag people report in the Moors already.

> It would be good to address the crafting professions. Adding on additional crafts to what I have would be nice. I suspect people who choose the Explorer profession might get the most out of this.


Cons:

The lack of any plans for additional [new] raids or instances for this year is disappointing. It would have been nice to see plans for more of this aspect. However, there is something that bugs me a little bit more... but I haven't been able to put my finger on it until now.

While this year of smaller updates and revamping things may turn out to be worth our patience (which is yet to be seen), what concerns me more is... a seeming lack of "vision" for the game. In other words, the plans that have been unveiled so far come across as being too short-sighted.

Let me take couple of examples to explain what I mean...

Back in the beta for Helms Deep, I asked a question about the new trait system. Basically, I was probing to see what the developers' vision was for the new trait system. The answer I got back from HoarseDev was (paraphrasing) that we should not look at the trait system as being finite, but that it would open up new possibilities... such as adding traits much deeper into each line.
However, in all honesty, that answer still left me about at the same place I was before I asked the question. It did not seem to me that you had really thought out far enough in advance... you had not developed your own road map well enough to then be able to apply the new trait system as part of that map.
Now, maybe I am wrong and you do have all the details worked out. I am just expressing my impression of the answer I received.

Likewise, with the Big Battle system... in my opinion, the idea of being able to tell the story of a bigger, nastier battle in this way is a good idea. It allows the player the ability to experience the vastness that is war... but... when you consider that only 3 of the current Big Battles allows for groups larger than 1-2 people... in my view that seems, again, short sighted. You allow us to "be there" at the Hornburg... but you don't fully capitalize on the chance for people to participate in a way that feels truly "epic". Sure, I understand that you had to make a version of those battles which were "solo friendly" since they are required as part of the epic story. However, they could have been turned into a great source of "endgame" style content for everyone level 10 and up to participate in. Can you imagine how much fun it would have been for even the most casual kinship or PUG to "defend the wall" with each other regardless of level? I could see that easily being a "once a week" activity that most kinships would show up for.
So, again, the lack of a long-term vision seems to be the biggest issue in preventing certain aspects of the game from becoming fully realized.

These 42 questions are a good start at giving people a window into what is going on behind the scenes. However, I believe there is a real need for some honesty about your vision for the game... if you have one. What is your long-term vision and how does your plan for 2014 fit into that vision?

If you were willing to share with us your long-term vision, it might be much easier for "the fans" to understand the steps you are taking to reach that vision.