Elder King Symbol for Epic Reward?

[Aedfrith]

Symbols, you mean, right? Because the Volume deeds are not class specific, so how will they know which class LIs to give, much less which kind of LI (1-hander, 2-hander, axe vs sword, yada yada yada)?

Same way they knew how to do it in Enedwaith

[Chris91]

Same way they knew how to do it in Enedwaith

Enedwaith was a quest reward

[Rainothon]

I hear people say freeps are too strong in the moors and the moors lacks balance, why do they "need" First Ages?

Some freeps are too strong, some not. Some creeps are too strong, some not.

Too strong can mean 'heal too much' or 'hurt too much' or 'soaks too much damage'. 'Hurt too much' can mean one skill burst damage like crazy or a bleed is crazy strong.

The Moors differ from PvE that they involve tactics. Both sides can overcome eachother even when they are underpowered on paper. And a FA has more LI points on it, enabling more tactics. The DPS difference isn't that much really.

Saying the Moors lack balance is all well. But there are much more nuances to that than 'freeps are OP'. It's not that simple anymore. Not saying that some freeps classes aren't crazy OP. But it's not the full story.

[mjk47]

I would prefer to keep my 2nd age and try out an epic hard raid for the FA symbol ,rather than taking it from a mere epic quest. Thats how i think and thats how most of the true players of this game believe.

"True players"? Really? That is the sort of attitude that sums up the problem. Gaming is not about upholding some sort of standard that reflects how the majority of players used to play. The community of gamers is changing, and that view is a relic of the "good old days". Games exist because people pay money to support them. If the majority of players chooses to play "easy-mode", then that is the audience that games will cater to.

There is no eternal truth here. No "right" or "wrong" way to play. There is only economics. This has always been the way. In the "good old days", games were more challenging because the community was smaller, and that was the sort of content that they demanded. If game studios had not delivered that, they would not have survived. Things have changed. The demands on the studios have changed. They are responding accordingly.

In the current climate, challenging, difficult games are much more likely to be the niche than the norm. This may not always be so. Where the norm will be in 10 years time is the sort of prediction that the studios would pay good money to know whith certainty. They can try to be leaders, but the safer course is to be a follower. If the challenge meter swung back to where it used to be, revenues would fall. Obviously there are feedback loops at work here, and the move in any paricular direction can be self-reinforcing. It will require external inputs to revers the trends. What will cause those inputs to occurr is not clear.

[mjk47]

I don't mind the pay to win aspect so much as the psychological one. For ME at least, I've appreciated most the rewards I've gotten in game via significant effort. My first 2nd age was earned in a raid. My first first-age I got in a lottery (the lvl 65 FA symbol that was). While I was very happy to win the lottery and get my FA symbol in the mail, the one I got in a raid felt better. Same for armor, ones I got in raids were somehow more "fun" that those I got by doing dailies in hyboldt chasing kids around towns and such. This isn't a "raid" thing though, I think things earned by some hard won accomplishment, be it solo, fellow, or raid, are more rewarding then those gotten via a hobbit present or for completing content like the epic that - by design - are intended to be story telling mediums rather than challenges. Other people of course feel differently, and that is their perogative...

I understand your point. My first FA came from a Turtle run. After a very short period of time, I ended up unequipping it as it was no longer a "cutting edge" weapon and had been superseded by higher-level TA drops. I kept the FA in my vault for a long time, even though it was completely useless.

The psychological damage, however, was done. It was absolutely clear that expending effort to gain FA legendaries was pointless, and the rewards were transient in the extreme. At that point I chose to get off the treadmill and I have never experienced any regrets at doing so.

[Mar-Evayave]

The end reward of Volume 3 Book 3 (pre-ROI) offer class-specific LI item which you can choose for yourself or for another class. I gave a lv65 2nd Minstrel Book to my kinnie when I done the book with my Hunter. That helped him save a symbol and a mithril flake that time, lol.

And

Same way they knew how to do it in Enedwaith

As Chris said, that reward was from a QUEST, in which they offer one for each class. This is coming from a deed. So far, deeds don't seem to know one class from another unless they are specifically class deeds, which this is not. That's why that piece of jewelry is so horrible -- it's not class-specific and has no value on most of my toons. So either they must give symbols, or 2 LIs for each class (18 LIs total; 20 eventually for the new class), or the deed system must have been updated so that non-class-specific deeds can cater specifically to each class.

[Grimsin'sRiders]

I'm not sure what to make of MadeOfLions' comment.
Did she mean to say 'symbol' rather than 'item'?
Is she saying there will be no 'epic' reward at all for completing book 14? or Rather that there will only be second-age (not-so-epic) rewards for completing the (entire) volume deed? I'm actually rather disappointed if this is the case.

I've been playing this game for @/just over 2 years now, and in all that time I've never once either earned (through numerous raids or other) or received (through quest or deed or lootbox) a single first-age SYMBOL no matter how long or hard I've played (& I played A LOT in that time - darn-near daily!), rather had to grind (ridiculously) to earn gold in the mere hope of finding one (albeit exorbitantly) priced on the AH & even then had to settle on second-age content instead. :/

With Lotro having renewed contracts extending well into the future with stated intent to go on to Mordor (& presumably an associated increase in the level-cap & some 'new' level-capped items/symbols), I don't see the foul in rewarding a single (level 95) first-age SYMBOL, for completing an entire volume's worth of 'epic' content regardless whether it was completed solo or 'grouped'. Seems to me rather just deserts for a game well-played...

Grimsin

[cdq1958]

I'm not sure what to make of MadeOfLions' comment.
Did she mean to say 'symbol' rather than 'item'?
Is she saying there will be no 'epic' reward at all for completing book 14? or Rather that there will only be second-age (not-so-epic) rewards for completing the (entire) volume deed? I'm actually rather disappointed if this is the case.

I've been playing this game for @/just over 2 years now, and in all that time I've never once either earned (through numerous raids or other) or received (through quest or deed or lootbox) a single first-age SYMBOL no matter how long or hard I've played (& I played A LOT in that time - darn-near daily!), rather had to grind (ridiculously) to earn gold in the mere hope of finding one (albeit exorbitantly) priced on the AH & even then had to settle on second-age content instead. :/

With Lotro having renewed contracts extending well into the future with stated intent to go on to Mordor (& presumably an associated increase in the level-cap & some 'new' level-capped items/symbols), I don't see the foul in rewarding a single (level 95) first-age SYMBOL, for completing an entire volume's worth of 'epic' content regardless whether it was completed solo or 'grouped'. Seems to me rather just deserts for a game well-played...

Grimsin

I've never gotten a First Age symbol from anything. I will soon have 4 years in this game. I've gotten one FA LI and that one was from the AH. I have gotten Second Age LIs and symbols, though.

[Nadrowen]

"True players"? Really? That is the sort of attitude that sums up the problem. Gaming is not about upholding some sort of standard that reflects how the majority of players used to play. The community of gamers is changing, and that view is a relic of the "good old days". Games exist because people pay money to support them. If the majority of players chooses to play "easy-mode", then that is the audience that games will cater to.

There is no eternal truth here. No "right" or "wrong" way to play. There is only economics. This has always been the way. In the "good old days", games were more challenging because the community was smaller, and that was the sort of content that they demanded. If game studios had not delivered that, they would not have survived. Things have changed. The demands on the studios have changed. They are responding accordingly.

In the current climate, challenging, difficult games are much more likely to be the niche than the norm. This may not always be so. Where the norm will be in 10 years time is the sort of prediction that the studios would pay good money to know whith certainty. They can try to be leaders, but the safer course is to be a follower. If the challenge meter swung back to where it used to be, revenues would fall. Obviously there are feedback loops at work here, and the move in any paricular direction can be self-reinforcing. It will require external inputs to revers the trends. What will cause those inputs to occurr is not clear.

There is a huge gap between a challenging game (which I personally think Lotro should look ahead, because it's what incentive to play it ) and an easy game (which is Lotro at its current state). In the middle, it would be a game that offer an enough path of pogression.
The problem is that you consider that Lotro was hard, but Lotro never have been hardcore, even at release. Yes, there is probably a larger audience on Lotro than at release (which is good), thanks to many casuals who are looking for the lore that J.R.R Tolkien created (and I include myself in). But does it mean casuals don't like a bit of challenge? Should a game studio cater and go for the lowest common denominator, I mean players that don't want to understand hows work their game ? My kinship have many really casuals players (playing less a time per week) and guess what? They decided to take a break because it's not fun and challenging anymore.

I'm not sure what to make of MadeOfLions' comment.
Did she mean to say 'symbol' rather than 'item'?
Is she saying there will be no 'epic' reward at all for completing book 14? or Rather that there will only be second-age (not-so-epic) rewards for completing the (entire) volume deed? I'm actually rather disappointed if this is the case.

I've been playing this game for @/just over 2 years now, and in all that time I've never once either earned (through numerous raids or other) or received (through quest or deed or lootbox) a single first-age SYMBOL no matter how long or hard I've played (& I played A LOT in that time - darn-near daily!), rather had to grind (ridiculously) to earn gold in the mere hope of finding one (albeit exorbitantly) priced on the AH & even then had to settle on second-age content instead. :/

With Lotro having renewed contracts extending well into the future with stated intent to go on to Mordor (& presumably an associated increase in the level-cap & some 'new' level-capped items/symbols), I don't see the foul in rewarding a single (level 95) first-age SYMBOL, for completing an entire volume's worth of 'epic' content regardless whether it was completed solo or 'grouped'. Seems to me rather just deserts for a game well-played...

Grimsin

I'm a bit surprised that you didn't earned a FA symbol if you had done lots of raids in the past 2 years... in RoR, FA symbol could be earned at skirmish camp by barter seals, only you needed to complete once the 3 Erebor raids in T1 (which was relatively easy).... Not to mention they even dropped in T1 for some time at raid release.

[Jillymala]

I've never gotten a First Age symbol from anything. I will soon have 4 years in this game. I've gotten one FA LI and that one was from the AH. I have gotten Second Age LIs and symbols, though.

You know you can get lvl 60 FA items by running turtle 6 times yes?
So saying you haven't gotten one from anything just means you haven't earned it by completing what needs to be completed to earn it.
Which is how it should be.

[cdq1958]

You know you can get lvl 60 FA items by running turtle 6 times yes?
So saying you haven't gotten one from anything just means you haven't earned it by completing what needs to be completed to earn it.
Which is how it should be.

I've run turtle more than 6 times. No, Turtle didn't drop any FA symbols or LIs. I know that you can barter for a FA using the barter tokens. I have no need to do it.

[Grimsin'sRiders]

I'm a bit surprised that you didn't earned a FA symbol if you had done lots of raids in the past 2 years... in RoR, FA symbol could be earned at skirmish camp by barter seals, only you needed to complete once the 3 Erebor raids in T1 (which was relatively easy).... Not to mention they even dropped in T1 for some time at raid release.

"Relatively easy" may have been your experience, but it's hardly been mine.

I wasn't able to exploit the T1 at raid release & Seals are still (in my opinion) a pain to obtain in great quantity with or without assistance.

Sorry if that 'surprises' you, but suffice it to say, it doesn't change the fact that I'm hardly alone in the matter or the opinion.

Grimsin

[Gardhik]

With assistance, you can gain a lot of seals by doing Barad Guldur.

[Thunderhorse]

Please quit crying, it is about time the epic rewards was worth while... gives people who actually take the time to complete these long drug out tasks something to look forward to, and if people are foolish enough to sell their reward for gold in AH and lose out on a FA item that is their choice. This also keeps people from jacking the prices of FA symbols up to ridiculous prices, it is time for the players to have rewards and not just gold buyers, and people who cheat their way to having items that others work long hard hours to obtain... the only thing I see are gold mongers crying because they don't get to rip people off.

[guguzza71]

If it is true and a ist age symbol is a reward then I cant see this being anything more than a way for the entire playerbase to get the feel of having a top tier item.
This is good as it means players who never bothered with Ist age weapons and items may decide that they are worth chasing and may decide to join instances that the never wanted to try before so that they can get more.

Also if it is a reward for finishing the volume then that makes sense since 2nd ages have been rewards for finishing books.

[DelgonTheWise]

Please quit crying, it is about time the epic rewards was worth while... gives people who actually take the time to complete these long drug out tasks something to look forward to, and if people are foolish enough to sell their reward for gold in AH and lose out on a FA item that is their choice. This also keeps people from jacking the prices of FA symbols up to ridiculous prices, it is time for the players to have rewards and not just gold buyers, and people who cheat their way to having items that others work long hard hours to obtain... the only thing I see are gold mongers crying because they don't get to rip people off.

It isn't happening.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...02#post7133702

And BTW, any post that says others are "crying" is basically flame bait, could try reasonable arguments in its place.

[twistedmetalplayer21]

Yes, because you have to beat the RNG (the invisible rolling of the dice that determines what loot you get). Some people luck out and get Super Cool Item X their first time. Others have to grind that same content 100 times, 200 times, who knows how many times, to get Super Cool Item X.

Oh, so it is okay to grind a raid 200 times, but not anything else in the game (E.G. Hytbold, rep, daily stuff, etc)

I definitely see the super elitist logic here..


[./confused]

[Beaniemooch]

Oh, so it is okay to grind a raid 200 times, but not anything else in the game (E.G. Hytbold, rep, daily stuff, etc)

I definitely see the super elitist logic here..


[./confused]

I've never seen Mar-Evayave be elitist about this so I think you are definitely confused. All they said in the post you quote is that raids are an investment of time when you take into account the RNG. Prior to the RNG you'd be certain that you'd go in and have a 90% chance of XYZ dropping, then either kin dkp determined who got it or you rolled against 11 others, which was usually (not always) easier than the current RNG where you're basically betting against the house every time and as is usually the case you mostly lose. I also don't see them saying it was okay to have to grind anything 200 times.

Of the people you might call super elitist I believe you picked the wrong target.

[Mar-Evayave]

Oh, so it is okay to grind a raid 200 times, but not anything else in the game (E.G. Hytbold, rep, daily stuff, etc)

I definitely see the super elitist logic here..

Erm... whaaa?

I've never seen Mar-Evayave be elitist about this so I think you are definitely confused. All they said in the post you quote is that raids are an investment of time when you take into account the RNG. Prior to the RNG you'd be certain that you'd go in and have a 90% chance of XYZ dropping, then either kin dkp determined who got it or you rolled against 11 others, which was usually (not always) easier than the current RNG where you're basically betting against the house every time and as is usually the case you mostly lose. I also don't see them saying it was okay to have to grind anything 200 times.

Of the people you might call super elitist I believe you picked the wrong target.

lol Thanks. I don't think I've ever said that grinding raids is "okay" and grinding anything else in the game isn't. xD To me, regardless of old-RNG vs new-RNG, it's just the way life is. It's an RPG for a reason. You roll your dice (be it physically on a tabletop or figuratively in a game) and see what you get. And no game will survive long without some form of a grind. RNG in raids for Super Cool Item X is the grind for raiders. Hytbold and the such is just another grind.

[xRaina]

I will clarify with the rewards developer on if the end reward is two second age symbols or a choice of two second age weapons/class items. I will post again when I have a clear answer.

The choice of Second Age was intended to be on par with previous 'end of' Epic rewards, where Second Age Items, Weapons, or Symbols were rewarded - a matter of consistency.

[xRaina]

I will clarify with the rewards developer on if the end reward is two second age symbols or a choice of two second age weapons/class items. I will post again when I have a clear answer.

Answer: Two Second Age level 95 Symbols

[TKH]

Answer: Two Second Age level 95 Symbols

Nice, I guess?

I have already have a 2nd age from the end if HD's epic book. What should I do with an extra symbol after making my weapon and class LI? I know I can sell them or make LI for alt or people, but it seems a bit... uncreative for reward.

I wish to see the reward to be a 2nd symbol and something... nicer. Such as a cosmetic item (no weapon-type, please), war-steed cosmetics, or something novelty like the horseshoes.

Editted: Oh, I can make that extra to a bridle too, I forgot. However, briddle lv95 is not really different from lv85 one in term of dps like LI weapon, so it is still a hassle to make one.

For that reason, I still keep my opnion about one 2nd symbol and another novelty item as epic book reward.

[Macroscian]

Pity. One FA symbol would have been excellent - on hunter I need three: bow, side-arm, bridle.

[Elrantiri]

Pity. One FA symbol would have been excellent - on hunter I need three: bow, side-arm, bridle.

Need? You're sure you don't just mean 'want'?

[Mar-Evayave]

Answer: Two Second Age level 95 Symbols

Thank-you for clarifying, Raina! ^_^