new Beor class excluded to the hobbit

[TheCrossbow]

As much as some people may want the Beorning (or whatever it ends up being called) to be available to all races, I do believe that it would be lore-appropriate to keep the new class to "Race of Man."

However, with "Beorning" being more of a race in itself (sub-man/Beorn race), I am fairly certain it will get a better name!

[guguzza71]

Right, and Scouring of the Shire was in Lord of the Rings, and the game is called Lord of the Rings Online. If it's in the book, it's lore appropriate. Otherwise lore appropriate has no meaning.

Furthermore Frodo is called a Captain while the hobbits are partying in Crickhollow. Are you going to pretend like that didn't happen, or that it hasn't happened yet?

There was that boy king who supported Halfling Captains not too long ago. The others weren't amused. I think he was poisoned at his wedding.

[Alex53]

I absolutley love this post.

+1 internets to you, I'm crying

*bow*




http://www.mml.co.uk/waffle.php

[Feleg]

then with that reasoning cannot be lm that eat cakes and a lm does not eat if it is human or Elf






and finally the shide is inspired by the English countryside where high class people studied and were members of the army and peasants were not, I do not mean to a peasant hobbit I want a hobbit educated and distinguished as Frodo and if it can be Lm, as any human or Elf, not all the hobbits are peasants, nor all human scholars depends on culture and social class at that time.You must stop with the idea of the hobbit peasant and ignorant of once and for all



https://imageshack.com/my/images

Poppycock.

"High class people" studied in towns and cities. So did everyone else who studied.

Tolkien fought in World War One, it is embarrassing that you suggest no "peasants" fought in that war.

Not sure what your point is, but please remember this is a game so is an abstraction.

[Arnenna]

I'm not sure about this, but I think he's upset that the Beorning class is not available to Hobbits... dunno could just be me, but i'm pretty sure Beorn was a MAN not a HOBBIT.

He was also a peacekeeper, and an avid protector of animals, to the extent that he followed Thorins dwarf party through Mirkwood in secret to make sure his loaned out horse was being taken care of. So our LOTRO Beorn, if it is to be as lore abiding to be only a man - should be excluded from 60 - 70% of slayer deeds, considering most of them involve the killing of some kind of animal and wildlife. Neither should he have access to deeds such as meat eating for a carnivore title.

We don't need another man only class, we have the captain for that. For those that feel a Beorning shouldn't be a hobbit (or an elf or dwarf for that matter), then equally . . . all burgs should be hobbits only (and this is the only class they should play as they are a peaceful race), RK's should all be dwarves or not exist at all, and minstrels should only carry instruments.

Lore isn't something that can be selective, its either all or nothing - not a case of let's make up the rules as we go along.

And if you really want to get all technical about what a Beorning is . . . . its not a man. Beorning is a race of its own, not really a class.

[Harbut]

So skin changers will be man only, hopefully they make it up to us by introducing bee keeping as a hobby...i can forgive turbine if they do!
*holds an empty honey pot*


Now allow all races to be captains!!!
*hides from Rad*

[rodin12]

This comment of frodo on this sam in the novel and mentioned the word magician and Warrior and tolkien did not deny that it could have been both if they are named is that there was this possibility in a hobbit and at the end says he had reason Frodo Tolkien claim not denied flatly that possibility only says that it is very strange to a hobbit Wizard or Warrior not impossible or forbidden not common only if there is a possibility has be permitted

named the same as the Warrior and magician mistrel 3 possibilities equally therefore three classes must be accepted equally

The first surprised by the personality of Sam was the bearer, and said after hearing him sing the song about Trolls , opposite the statues of Tom , Berto and Guille Estrujónez : "(...) I'm learning a lot about Sam Gamgee in this trip. was first a conspirator and is now a minstrel. It will end by being a magician or a warrior ...! ... "and he was right.

[c_the_awesome]

He was also a peacekeeper, and an avid protector of animals, to the extent that he followed Thorins dwarf party through Mirkwood in secret to make sure his loaned out horse was being taken care of.

You are imagining a whole bunch their. Is your opinion of a peacekeeper, someone who kills goblins? It better be, or you are wrong. I quote “If all beggars could tell such a good tale, they might find me kinder.” This shows that he was a protector of his own lands, not a peace activist.

Avid protector of animals? Seriously? He was like a farmer, he protected his own. Anything threatened HIS animals he would show them no mercy. Man or beast. He would strike. He even nailed a wolf skin to his gate to scare them off.

So our LOTRO Beorn, if it is to be as lore abiding to be only a man - should be excluded from 60 - 70% of slayer deeds, considering most of them involve the killing of some kind of animal and wildlife. Neither should he have access to deeds such as meat eating for a carnivore title.

Beorn was not afraid to kill wildlife or nature. His house was made out of wood, for crying out loud! I say again, just because Beorn was a vegetarian does not mean the Beornings all were. The new character is a Beorning, not Beorn himself.

Lore isn't something that can be selective, its either all or nothing - not a case of let's make up the rules as we go along.

if this was the case than
1. You could not play as hobbits or elves and perhaps dwarves
2. Angmar would be a nonegsistant area
3. You could not play as minstrel, Loremaster, Runekeeper.
4. You could not play in Moria
5. Raids would be nonexistent
6. No female Characters
7. No human settlements in Eriador except, Breeland, Forochell, and Dunland
8. No Folowing the grey company
9. No helping the Maladhrim in Mirkwood
10. + many others

And if you really want to get all technical about what a Beorning is . . . . its not a man. Beorning is a race of its own, not really a class.

No, Tolkien himself says Beorn was a man.

[Radhruin_EU]

This comment of frodo on this sam in the novel and mentioned the word magician and Warrior and tolkien did not deny that it could have been both if they are named is that there was this possibility in a hobbit and at the end says he had reason Frodo Tolkien claim not denied flatly that possibility only says that it is very strange to a hobbit Wizard or Warrior not impossible or forbidden not common only if there is a possibility has be permitted

named the same as the Warrior and magician mistrel 3 possibilities equally therefore three classes must be accepted equally

The first surprised by the personality of Sam was the bearer, and said after hearing him sing the song about Trolls , opposite the statues of Tom , Berto and Guille Estrujónez : "(...) I'm learning a lot about Sam Gamgee in this trip. was first a conspirator and is now a minstrel. It will end by being a magician or a warrior ...! ... "and he was right.

This doesn't actually say what you think it does... the full quote goes like this as Tolkien wrote it:

Sam muttered something inaudible. 'It's out of his own head, of course,' said Frodo. 'I am learning a lot about Sam Gamgee on this journey. First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard – or a warrior!'

'I hope not,' said Sam. 'I don't want to be neither!'

- FOTR, 'Flight to the Ford'

So it's not 'minstrel' and 'magician', it's 'jester' and 'wizard' - and Frodo obviously can't be right about the wizard part, and in any case is plainly not being serious, it's just banter. This might, however, be an instance of foresight because he's right about Sam becoming a warrior, as we find out later. But we know hobbits can be warriors, and they can do that in the game already. But don't try to use that quote as another excuse for hobbits doing magic.

[rodin12]

then you recognize that they are warriors and class of warriors has only the guardian that I am but champion is also a warrior and cpt if they are warriors need those 2 classes

[c_the_awesome]

then you recognize that they are warriors and class of warriors has only the guardian that I am but champion is also a warrior and cpt if they are warriors need those 2 classes

A captain is not a warrior, a captain is a leader. He does not stand at the front of the battle (even though he can). Also the hobbits aren't the greatest captains and generals out there. The only hobbits that could qualify are Merry and Pippin (and maybe the Bullroarer). And the Scourging of the Shire is hardly a big, noteworthy battle, more like a petty skirmish against some brigands.

[rodin12]

champion wuarrior or not , hobbit wuarrior-hobbit champion

[Radhruin_EU]

champion wuarrior or not , hobbit wuarrior-hobbit champion

Hobbits aren't supposed to be bloodthirsty and warlike, whereas the Champion is both.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Hobbits aren't supposed to be bloodthirsty and warlike, whereas the Champion is both.

What's a red-specc'd guardian or warden then?

[c_the_awesome]

What's a red-specc'd guardian or warden then?

a red-specc'd guardian or warden, is a red-specc'd guardian or warden...:P

[Brandon_Blackbird]

a red-specc'd guardian or warden, is a red-specc'd guardian or warden...:P

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that shing-shing?

[BangoTwinkletoes]

a red-specc'd guardian or warden, is a red-specc'd guardian or warden...:P

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that shing-shing?

Pity people cannot respond to a serious point without having to mock it.

Absence of any real counter argument I guess.

So the next time your hobbit guardian uses brutal assault or force opening, or your hobbit warden uses any of the power attack line gambits, ask yourself why indeed hobbits cannot be champions?....

[Fratonia]

I know players who would like to play only hobbits or dwarves or elves or humans but they have to make certain sacrifices when choosing a class. None of them have been so stubborn to say that they will not play a class they are interested in until Turbine makes it available to race x. They just play it because they are interested in the class itself.

If the game designers decide to allow a certain class only for certain race(s) and Tolkien lore (don't know much about that) provides the constraints for that decision - so be it. This is nothing new. From what I have read Beornings clearly belong to the race of men and are not related at all to the shire and the hobbits there. That means no dwarven, elven or hobbit shape changers in Lotro. It's as simple as that.

All races are available to all players from the start. If you want to play a shape changer you are free to do so.

[Skalijn]

I found a spoon.

Pies are shiny.

This post is like finding an oasis in a desert.... I laughed so much my coffee has sprayed my monitor


EDIT - oh and to be PC I think both sides of the argument deserve merit............phew

[maxjenius]

Part of this thread seems to be about Hobbit Champions and Captains. There are no non arbitrary reasons for class/race restrictions. But it is what it is. And your character does not have to be a Champion to be a champion, nor a Captain to be a captain (in terms of RP).

Classes are just pre packaged sets of traits and skills. They are irrelevant beyond that.

[Tarmas_Eldar]

I know players who would like to play only hobbits or dwarves or elves or humans but they have to make certain sacrifices when choosing a class. None of them have been so stubborn to say that they will not play a class they are interested in until Turbine makes it available to race x. They just play it because they are interested in the class itself.

Well, count me as one who only plays one race (Elves) and as a consequence doesn't have a CPT or BRG even though I'd like to play those classes.

If I had my time again I'd actually have made all my characters Men because it feels more fitting in the Middle Earth setting. However, I have played Elves in every RPG going back to tabletop D&D in the 1980s so I didn't even think before creating my first character in 2007. I also didn't plan to play alts, so the question of what class was available to what race was irrelevant at the time.

I have far to much time invested in my characters to remake them now, so I live happily enough with my self-imposed Elf-only restriction. I would, however, pay significant TP for either an Elf -> Man race-change scroll to apply to all my current characters (to which I would then add a Man BRG and Man CPT), or a class/race unlock scroll so I could make an Elf CPT and an Elf BRG.

Debate over of the lore-justifications for the class/race restrictions is as old as the game itself. I have read no argument which makes me think an Elf Captain or a Hobbit Champion is any more absurd than a Hobbit Guardian or a Man Loremaster. All the restrictions are arbitrary.

I think the class *names* as opposed to their *attributes* are more problematic (eg there are no Elf "Burglars" but there could very easily be stealthy Elf melee fighters). This is also the issue with a "Beorning" being anything other than a Man. Beorn *is* a man in the books. Calling the class something generic like Shape-shifter would free it from that restriction (while not making it any lesss absurd in the setting, but that's a different debate).

[Skalijn]

There are restrictions on other classes as well, it's not as if the devs are picking on hobbits. As other posters have pointed out, we all have a choice to make when picking what classes to play and tailor that to the race or vice versa. If Turbine are even thinking of providing it as a pay option to have all races open, it would break the feel of Tolkien's work. It's already strained by the rk and other strange choices elsewhere.

I wouldn't have been surprised at one point to see dragon mounts available when the first Hobbit film came out. Thankfully, we were saved from that.

I bet Warner bosses are sitting there staring off into space counting possible revenue from them

[Fratonia]

Debate over of the lore-justifications for the class/race restrictions is as old as the game itself. I have read no argument which makes me think an Elf Captain or a Hobbit Champion is any more absurd than a Hobbit Guardian or a Man Loremaster. All the restrictions are arbitrary.

Of course all the restrictions are arbitrary because someone set them up. If it's Tolkien's world or AD&D rules or whatever doesn't matter at all. But if a game follows such rules it cannot ditch them just because someone would like them to change. Most of the RPGs I have played followed such rules and you couldn't create whatever combination of races, classes and attributes you liked. Some old games like Eye of the Beholder or Baldur's Gate come to mind. I bet you know them as well.

In the end it's a decision the player has to make. Accept the rules and play the game or do something else. Just like any other activity.

[Tarmas_Eldar]

Of course all the restrictions are arbitrary because someone set them up. If it's Tolkien's world or AD&D rules or whatever doesn't matter at all. But if a game follows such rules it cannot ditch them just because someone would like them to change. Most of the RPGs I have played followed such rules and you couldn't create whatever combination of races, classes and attributes you liked. Some old games like Eye of the Beholder or Baldur's Gate come to mind. I bet you know them as well.

Of course the rules can be ditched or changed - any arbitrary rule could (by definition) just as well be some other rule. The race/class restrictions are all based on subjective interpretations of Tolkien's work. I am free to argue for a different interpretation. You are free to support the current interpretations. Isn't that how discussion works?

For the record I never thought much of the race/class restrictions on AD&D either. Again - arbitrary. Even more so than in LOTRO actually.

In the end it's a decision the player has to make. Accept the rules and play the game or do something else. Just like any other activity.

And in the bulk of my post from which you snipped the small quote I said that I have done just that - made six Elf characters and happily played for nearly seven years. In the meantime I will continue to hope for - and ask for - either a lifting of the restrictions of a race change option to buy. Choosing to play within the rules doesn't preclude wanting them to change - there's probably 101 things I wish were different about LOTRO and I regularly make my view known on those as well. Sometimes over the years things have actually changed!

[Robeauch]

i cant believe this thread is more than a week old and i am just now discovering it it is the most epic thread of this forum and might be my favorite thread of any forum ever i have only just begun to plumb its depths but i look forward to taking more time this evening to really delve into it and enjoy its complete awesomeness thats really all i have to say i just wanted to show my appreciation for everyone who has posted in this thread you all win all of the internets forever thank you