Update 15 - Will we join aragorn or keep playing the disposable garbage mopper again?

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Yes and that you don't is okay.

Every time I do these I think of a poem, the one that describes the bad things that happened because people were to haughty to do the small things that turned out to be important in the big picture, in the end.

If this type of quest are just normal quests that can be avoided then I don't mind, but to have them as part of the epic line? People who try lotro for the first time experience the volume one epic and it's fantastic writing and heroic encounters and that's what draws them in. To then find that by the end of vol 3 those heroic encounters have been replaced with roleplaying a cleaner? Doesn't have the same impact does it.

[cdq1958]

If this type of quest are just normal quests that can be avoided then I don't mind, but to have them as part of the epic line? People who try lotro for the first time experience the volume one epic and it's fantastic writing and heroic encounters and that's what draws them in. To then find that by the end of vol 3 those heroic encounters have been replaced with roleplaying a cleaner? Doesn't have the same impact does it.

For me, Vol 3 has *more* impact. Vol. 1 feels contrived, though I did find the story to be good enough at the end, yet I've only completed it once. Remember that poem I mentioned? To me, Volume 2 and 3 are much better done.

[Kaylorion]

What could have been ...

FRODO: Sorry Gandalf I don't do garbage disposal. If you need someone to throw away a piece of old jewellery you should look elsewhere. I want to lead an army against Mordor. I think I will look so good and heroic dressed in armor surrounded by the banners of the Free Peoples.


If you ask me we do much more heroic than we probably should. When you compare our achievements: defeating a nazgul, slaying Mordirith, reforging the Sword That Was Broken , slaying the Watcher etc with those of Boromir you wonder why Tolkien wasted so much time writing about that loser. Clearly he was writing about the wrong hero.

One of the reasons I like Forochel is that when you arrive you are nobody and despite all your deeds elsewhere the people don't care. Their lives are hard and the struggles of the Ring seem a thousand miles away. Try telling them that you don't want to collect hides when it means the difference for them between living and dying.

[Vulcwen]

A difference, and this is an important difference, is that Lotro isn't just a story about your character, it's a game. And a game is first of all interactive, and should be fun. If the game assigns you with menial tasks, and you do those by just clicking something and waiting for an induction, it's boring. If the same tasks were more interactive, it can increase the fun of such a task, without a single change in the story.
But, click-and-wait is the way non-combat tasks work in this game around all the time, and therefore getting too much of it gets boring fast.

[wachkussen]

Personally, I have a burglar/assassin's "take/mentality" on low-grade tasks. Plenty of them please, bring them on. What better cover to hide behind? Don't you find it somewhat irritating, being half of everybody else's height? makes you conspicuous from the word go. Personally, my 'ideal' set of solo epic quests would be a slew of burglar class quests where the big bad gets poisoned, has unfortunate accidents, armour drops off in the middle of combat etc. etc. etc. With nobody ever any the wiser as to what actually happened. Him? Oh, he's just the dishwasher.

[Rozalinde]

People who try lotro for the first time experience the volume one epic and it's fantastic writing and heroic encounters and that's what draws them in. To then find that by the end of vol 3 those heroic encounters have been replaced with roleplaying a cleaner? Doesn't have the same impact does it.

For me, Vol 3 has *more* impact. Vol. 1 feels contrived, though I did find the story to be good enough at the end, yet I've only completed it once. Remember that poem I mentioned? To me, Volume 2 and 3 are much better done.

But, click-and-wait is the way non-combat tasks work in this game around all the time, and therefore getting too much of it gets boring fast.

For me, story-wise, Volume III has way more impact than Volume I, because it feels more real. Real people with real problems. To me, Volume I seemed like traveling thousands upon thousands of leagues across Eriador to dispatch one spiky-shouldered D&D villain after another.

That said, gameplay-wise, Volume III can drag. This has nothing to do with the content of the story, and everything to do with the dull repetition of click-and-wait quests, and quest-chains where we must ping-pong back and forth between NPCs as they carry on a conversation using you as their messenger... "Tell so-and-so this," "Go back to so-and-so and reply..." Come on guys! Just pick a conference room and let's get this settled more efficiently!

[cdq1958]

A difference, and this is an important difference, is that Lotro isn't just a story about your character, it's a game. And a game is first of all interactive, and should be fun. If the game assigns you with menial tasks, and you do those by just clicking something and waiting for an induction, it's boring. If the same tasks were more interactive, it can increase the fun of such a task, without a single change in the story.
But, click-and-wait is the way non-combat tasks work in this game around all the time, and therefore getting too much of it gets boring fast.

That's not so for me. I read quest text and I get much enjoyment from quest text. Nothing bores me. Combat, though, well, it isn't boring and it isn't fun nor should it be fun. That's one of those things about combat-centric games in whatever form. They're not entertaining for me. I'll put up with it, but the more I can do and enjoy things out of combat, the happier I am.

[FyreBrand]

For my part I like my quests to have variety. If the only stuff we are going to have is military-ish, 'go scout here', 'fight these' type quests for the next year, I'm going to get very bored very quickly, no matter how good the storytelling is. It's good to have some more low-key stuff in there. Firstly because it provides variety, and second because it gives us a chance to breathe from the combat stuff. Yes, you can go overboard in either direction, and so far I think Turbine has done a great job balancing the two. For my part I feel the people demanding that we get no more 'fluffier' quests full stop, do not realise how surprisingly dull it would make war.

I like a mix of the mundane and the epic. True heroes and leaders are also great followers and those who set the example. If it were all combat all the time the world would feel shallow. If it were only mundane quests I would feel disconnected from the larger problem of evil looming.

I also don't want to break that barrier, as MoL said, where our characters would be mentioned in the book, but don't want to be so marginalized that I feel insignificant. It's a tricky balance.

[Vulcwen]

That's not so for me. I read quest text and I get much enjoyment from quest text. Nothing bores me. Combat, though, well, it isn't boring and it isn't fun nor should it be fun. That's one of those things about combat-centric games in whatever form. They're not entertaining for me. I'll put up with it, but the more I can do and enjoy things out of combat, the happier I am.

What, that puzzles me, "Combat should not be fun"? Really?
All elements in the game should be fun. The purpose of a game is to be fun. It might not be the primary purpose,some games have a educational, promotional etc. purpose, but all games need to be fun to be successful. And if Im right, LOTRO is an entertainment game, so fun is the PRIMARY focus.

Reading isn't something you specifically play games for, you have books for that purpose. Note, I don't mean I don't grant you the enjoyment from quest text, story is an important part of RPGs (whether online or not). It is however not the ONLY part of the game, and other elements can actually enhance the immersion in the story, and by a lot.

Also my post wasn't about reading, that's totally fine, it was more about what you have to do for those clean-up quests, like:
"Pick up dishes (0/12)" And than for each dish you just click it, wait some seconds, and get to the next one. All with a generic animation that you've seen at least 1000 times in the game already, not only for picking up things.

I'd be more fun if for example: You need to bring them to some place, and are not allowed to drop them (if you do you get an NPC yelling at you, and you gotta pick it off the ground). Dropping can happen if you jump, or if you hit something. Or some NPC around there can do mean and cause you to drop things (after which you need to use an emote or something). Those things will bring those menial tasks a bit alive, rather than dull gameplay you've seen hundreds of times already, with a little different context story-wise. It'd also really help with immersion if some of the NPCs around are doing the same job, it gives more of a sense that you are HELPING, rather than doing jobs for lazy NPCs.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

That's not so for me. I read quest text and I get much enjoyment from quest text. Nothing bores me. Combat, though, well, it isn't boring and it isn't fun nor should it be fun. That's one of those things about combat-centric games in whatever form. They're not entertaining for me. I'll put up with it, but the more I can do and enjoy things out of combat, the happier I am.

Why shouldn't combat be fun? I'd hazard a guess that at least 75% (more likely 85%) of the quests in this game involve using one's class skills. I'm not sure that it would be a wise business decision if turbine were to take all the fun out of one of the most significant aspects of the game, especially given the major investments made in the class revamps.

[Jewl_of_the_lake]

It's possible to be a hero without tagging along with Aragorn all the time, though, and that's been a major tenet of the Epic Story from the beginning. The more we insert the player into the events of the book, the more obvious it becomes that such a major player would have been mentioned, and some harm is done to the suspension of disbelief. I think the most effective story-telling involves heroic actions that affect but don't interfere with the main narrative of LotR, that can comfortably exist just "off the pages" of the original story.

We do have an obligation to depict some of the best-known and well-loved scenes from the book, but it's a balancing act. Just tagging along with Aragorn while he gets all the best scenes wouldn't be that fun, but neither would never seeing him at all.

I think the description of our heroes as 'disposable garbage moppers' minimizes their accomplishments to a rather silly degree. I think much good was done facing the Champion of Angmar, braving the dark of Moria, saving the Kingdom of Rohan, and hindering Saruman's plans for Middle-earth.

MoL

Not to derail this discussion but what ever happened to our elf friend and the love birds?

[grrgwrigo563]

Not to derail this discussion but what ever happened to our elf friend and the love birds?

I have the same question. Nona and Horn are probably travelling with Theoden to die at Pelennor Fields in some manner. But whatever happened to Corudan? Ran back to Galadriel or got abducted by the Uruks?

[Tobias_R]

Personally, I have a burglar/assassin's "take/mentality" on low-grade tasks. Plenty of them please, bring them on. What better cover to hide behind? Don't you find it somewhat irritating, being half of everybody else's height? makes you conspicuous from the word go. Personally, my 'ideal' set of solo epic quests would be a slew of burglar class quests where the big bad gets poisoned, has unfortunate accidents, armour drops off in the middle of combat etc. etc. etc. With nobody ever any the wiser as to what actually happened. Him? Oh, he's just the dishwasher.

Thanks.

Not only for the laugh, but even more for the urge to dust off my hobbit burglar and level him

The 'captured in Isen'-story-line will be funnier than ever!

Regards
/T

[Ruindolon]

NPC says, 'Oh, you're an accomplished warrior that has slashed your way through Moria, Lothlorien and Rohan? That's nice! Go pick me some flowers."

[OldMadeOfLions]

Not to derail this discussion but what ever happened to our elf friend and the love birds?

Their adventures don't intersect with yours at the moment. Once they do I expect you'll see them again.

MoL

[ararax2]

Their adventures don't intersect with yours at the moment. Once they do I expect you'll see them again.

MoL

Is our kindled love bird getting a new larger model?

[OldMadeOfLions]

Is our kindled love bird getting a new larger model?

No spoilers from me, but... keep in mind how little time has actually passed since 'Chapter 15: The Bloom.' It's only been a week or so, despite how long it's been in our world!

MoL

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Their adventures don't intersect with yours at the moment. Once they do I expect you'll see them again.

MoL

I thought Corudan had been tasked by Horn with keeping an eye on us? Did he just decide after the Battle of Helm's Deep that we were no longer worth the effort? :P

[OldMadeOfLions]

I thought Corudan had been tasked by Horn with keeping an eye on us? Did he just decide after the Battle of Helm's Deep that we were no longer worth the effort? :P

Remember that he was separated from you during the siege by an army of Orcs. Corudan may have run into more trouble than just a lack of focus.

MoL

[Orodbril]

Remember that he was separated from you during the siege by an army of Orcs. Corudan may have run into more trouble than just a lack of focus.

MoL

This sounds like a teaser! xD

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Remember that he was separated from you during the siege by an army of Orcs. Corudan may have run into more trouble than just a lack of focus.

MoL

Definitely going to have to redo the latter part of that book - in my haste to get the epic battles over and done with it seems that I missed this part of the story!

[grrgwrigo563]

Remember that he was separated from you during the siege by an army of Orcs. Corudan may have run into more trouble than just a lack of focus.

MoL

Since we are in Gondor, and there won't be quests taking us back to the Westfold, I'm guessing we wont come across his dead body. [Unless theoden's carriage comes across him, wonders what another strange guy in addition to you is doing in Rohan, and puts him in the cargo to get your confirmation whenever our roads cross, if ever].
Maybe he has been tracking us.

I was so relieved to find Lothrandir had made it, even though that instance had a mean thriller .

[cdq1958]

What, that puzzles me, "Combat should not be fun"? Really?
All elements in the game should be fun. The purpose of a game is to be fun. It might not be the primary purpose,some games have a educational, promotional etc. purpose, but all games need to be fun to be successful. And if Im right, LOTRO is an entertainment game, so fun is the PRIMARY focus.

Reading isn't something you specifically play games for, you have books for that purpose. Note, I don't mean I don't grant you the enjoyment from quest text, story is an important part of RPGs (whether online or not). It is however not the ONLY part of the game, and other elements can actually enhance the immersion in the story, and by a lot.

Also my post wasn't about reading, that's totally fine, it was more about what you have to do for those clean-up quests, like:
"Pick up dishes (0/12)" And than for each dish you just click it, wait some seconds, and get to the next one. All with a generic animation that you've seen at least 1000 times in the game already, not only for picking up things.

I'd be more fun if for example: You need to bring them to some place, and are not allowed to drop them (if you do you get an NPC yelling at you, and you gotta pick it off the ground). Dropping can happen if you jump, or if you hit something. Or some NPC around there can do mean and cause you to drop things (after which you need to use an emote or something). Those things will bring those menial tasks a bit alive, rather than dull gameplay you've seen hundreds of times already, with a little different context story-wise. It'd also really help with immersion if some of the NPCs around are doing the same job, it gives more of a sense that you are HELPING, rather than doing jobs for lazy NPCs.

That's right. Combat should not be fun. Why should it? It is a necessary evil, to be avoided or gotten over quickly and efficiently. Combat does not enhance my enjoyment of a game. Sure, it does for some, but not for me. It never has. It is just another task to complete.

About the pick up dishes, well to me that's like walking. Just do it :P and 'whistle while you work'. I don't know, maybe it is just me born and raised in the 50s making my own entertainment, whether alone in the woods or chasing other children in the neighborhood. To me the things you mention are crutches. I'd rather have my own imagination working and the NPCs are wallflowers in the scene. Oh well.

[cdq1958]

Why shouldn't combat be fun? I'd hazard a guess that at least 75% (more likely 85%) of the quests in this game involve using one's class skills. I'm not sure that it would be a wise business decision if turbine were to take all the fun out of one of the most significant aspects of the game, especially given the major investments made in the class revamps.

I sure don't want them to remove the fun of others. Still, combat is just another task. Personally, I'd find the game totally fun if is was nothing but normal 'menial' daily tasks plus puzzle solving quests that triggered events elsewhere without me ever having to fight. Others surely won't find that to be fun, so I have to put up with the combat and I do it by trivializing it mentally compared to other tasks. Pure role-play in my mind and so long as that does not adversely impact others, this kind of play should not be penalized.

[PoeticNightmare]

I really wish there were less of the "pick up trash" quests, and those of that nature. I mean, at this point, we are indeed heroes. We have crippled the forces of Sharkey in Bree and in the Shire, we've fought alongside Elrond's sons on numerous occasions, traveled, fought with, and saved many of the Grey Company, befriended members of the fellowship, consoled Frodo on a walk in Rivendell, braved many quests given directly by TWO of the five Istari themselves... and the list goes on and on. To me, it seems off to still do peasant level quests on a consistent basis. I can understand a few, here and there..maybe.

Oh, and I could do without the "what do you want" attitude from all the NPC's, every time you see them. lol!

I also would prefer many more combat quests. (Please not mounted). I love the little camps scattered throughout the world and fighting my way through them all.