More inc heal debuffs!

[Wilantuk]

Due to the current state of the moors I believe champs are entitled to a heal debuff back. This is the moors now, so every class must keep up. My idea is Merciful Strike crits put a 50% inc heal debuff for 8 seconds. Simple change it could be part of a 4 suit bonus for aud armor or something. Have fun all.

- Derlan of Arkenstone

[Armdyl]

since they gave bas a -50% inc healing debuff on a not so short cooldown lets just give every class one.

[Wilantuk]

My suggestion is more in line with the reaver inc heal debuff attached to dev strike.

Little more info for those that don't know but champs merciful is gated by a health threshold depending on how many traits you have in it. You can trait it to a guaranteed crit usuable at 50% morale and it has a 10 second cool down.

[Geno-Max]

I get that PvMP isn't balanced around soloing, but at least give freep classes without a healing debuff/sustain a chance at killing defilers and warleaders in 1v1...

[ScrettleSllim]

The relic for the burglar to place on their weapon is n absolute joke BTW.... it does work great but no one is going to replace a whole stack of stats for 10-20% chance to apply a 50% incoming healing debuff.

[Giliodor]

The relic for the burglar to place on their weapon is n absolute joke BTW.... it does work great but no one is going to replace a whole stack of stats for 10-20% chance to apply a 50% incoming healing debuff.

A whole stack being approximately 1300 phys mastery?
Oh, ok.

[Spilo]

IMO Inc Healing debuffs are a joke across the board. No one should have a -50% inc healing debuff. Unfortunately, in the ridiculous heal-drunk state in the moors, those debuffs are often necessary.

That being said, I think champs could use a little love, and that debuff would help.

[ulza]

IMO Inc Healing debuffs are a joke across the board. No one should have a -50% inc healing debuff. Unfortunately, in the ridiculous heal-drunk state in the moors, those debuffs are often necessary.

That being said, I think champs could use a little love, and that debuff would help.

They had their love in RoI and RoR.

[Spilo]

They had their love in RoI and RoR.

Yes, but in my little dream world, Turbine has the ability to better balance all classes. *giggle*

[dagorlad91806]

They had their love in RoI and RoR.

And then some. Champs are fine as is....

[Wilantuk]

Champs are great atm no argument there but heals are insane and need to be addressed this is one measure that would be easly implemented and help with balance.

It is however ridiculous to state that this class was great 2 years ago so therefore they need nothing now. It is a completely different game.

[RGilthanas]

Don't forget Guardians.


In PvE, it would make sense for a Guardian to be the primary -inc heals debuffer (other than maybe the LM).

[Wilantuk]

Hey Riv nice to see you still playing.

Stop trying to pump your guardian up with more skills! :P

[Armdyl]

Don't forget Guardians.


In PvE, it would make sense for a Guardian to be the primary -inc heals debuffer (other than maybe the LM).

yet devs give it to blackarrows but a debuffing defiler has one? devs don't understand only debuffers should get them. defilers and Lms are the only ones who need one.

[Thorandril]

champions, guardians and burglars are all entitled to this. The fact that we used to have one but it was removed is a little baffling, it's not acceptable at all that his hasn't been remedied yet in light of the current strength/numbers of defilers I see daily. My hardest hit in an extremely high mastery build is basically mitigates by a single pulse of efflorescence

[ScrettleSllim]

champions, guardians and burglars are all entitled to this. The fact that we used to have one but it was removed is a little baffling, it's not acceptable at all that his hasn't been remedied yet in light of the current strength/numbers of defilers I see daily. My hardest hit in an extremely high mastery build is basically mitigates by a single pulse of efflorescence

the Rk's one is not used enough by most Rk's... Its an AOE people..

The burg one is bad.. you have to replace a relic on your LI's for a 10% chance the -50% will land on a 3 second CD skill. at the rate of resists etc 30+seconds for a skill to even land most Defilers WL will have you close to dead before it even pops up.


Take it off the LI's to many stats are lost for such small effort hence why no burgs run with it unless raiding (pocket healer).
Increase the proc to 35% +.
Change it altogether and add a healing debuff in the Yellow line of the burg.
Dust In Eyes + Clever Retort = Gives Power and -100% incoming healing.

[XPICTO]

the Rk's one is not used enough by most Rk's... Its an AOE people..

The burg one is bad.. you have to replace a relic on your LI's for a 10% chance the -50% will land on a 3 second CD skill. at the rate of resists etc 30+seconds for a skill to even land most Defilers WL will have you close to dead before it even pops up.


Take it off the LI's to many stats are lost for such small effort hence why no burgs run with it unless raiding (pocket healer).
Increase the proc to 35% +.
Change it altogether and add a healing debuff in the Yellow line of the burg.
Dust In Eyes + Clever Retort = Gives Power and -100% incoming healing.

not sure if serious but 35%+ apply chance of a -50% inc heal debuf on a 3sec CD is worse than VT inc heal debuff. If freeps need -100% inc healing debuf then give creeps -150%+ inc healing debuff as a healing rk can easily outheal a defiler and can easily outheal 3-4creeps dps even with -50% debuff. Atm defi isnt the most op healer in moors.

[Giliodor]

not sure if serious but 35%+ apply chance of a -50% inc heal debuf on a 3sec CD is worse than VT inc heal debuff. If freeps need -100% inc healing debuf then give creeps -150%+ inc healing debuff as a healing rk can easily outheal a defiler and can easily outheal 3-4creeps dps even with -50% debuff. Atm defi isnt the most op healer in moors.

Rofl are you serious? You can disarm and RK, silence and RK, stun and RK, root an RK... What can you do to a defiler with its line of HoT's? That's right. Nothing. Just dumb DPS'ing. It requires 0 skill to heal on a defiler, and a lot of it to properly heal on a mini/RK. If you can't kill a healing RK with 4 creeps I suggest you to learn to play. Yet I don't see you QQ'ing about minstrels, who can outheal 5+ creeps depending on class/rank. Odd.

[Sabian49]

since they gave bas a -50% inc healing debuff on a not so short cooldown lets just give every class one.

My fault BAs got one....

And Hunters have 2, Wards have some,

We dont need more debuffs, and remember, unlike ours, you can cure your debuffs, we cant cure yours.....

[XPICTO]

Rofl are you serious? You can disarm and RK, silence and RK, stun and RK, root an RK... What can you do to a defiler with its line of HoT's? That's right. Nothing. Just dumb DPS'ing. It requires 0 skill to heal on a defiler, and a lot of it to properly heal on a mini/RK. If you can't kill a healing RK with 4 creeps I suggest you to learn to play. Yet I don't see you QQ'ing about minstrels, who can outheal 5+ creeps depending on class/rank. Odd.

Are you serious silenced rk cant heal? Or they wont use the clearing skill? rks dont have a row of hots and bubble? did i say anything about mincer being hard? no cuz they arent? IF you cant kill a defi with 4freeps learn to play. does it take skill to spam random skills to heal on rk with all these hots/bubble/immunes? Pff pathetic freep

[Ethrildar]

Are you serious silenced rk cant heal? Or they wont use the clearing skill? rks dont have a row of hots and bubble? did i say anything about mincer being hard? no cuz they arent? IF you cant kill a defi with 4freeps learn to play. does it take skill to spam random skills to heal on rk with all these hots/bubble/immunes? Pff pathetic freep

RK the single hardest class to play (as a healer) in the moors right now, and by my estimation is around ~932,384x as difficult to play as defiler is. Just in case you can't count I'll put it into long words for you, that's: Nine hundred and thirty-two thousand three hundred and eighty-four times as difficult.

RK is IMMENSELY susceptible to silence and disarm, both give it a 99% grey-bar, and with any half competent group of 2 creeps on a RK, if it receives either of these debuffs it'll take at least 4-6 seconds to clear, that's an awful long time when you're also stunning it, rooting it, fearing it, and that's just one silence/disarm, wargs can silence FIVE TIMES per minute, EACH. If you struggle to keep a RK CC'd with more than 3 creeps, you're really not playing your class to it's full potential.

A good RK healer is tough to kill, but compared to a good defiler? There's no comparison, as mentioned above, you can CC a defiler but a full row of hots each healing roughly what 1x minstrel 5min CD heals, you're on a loser.

That said, if any 4 dps freeps couldn't take out 1 defiler, they need to learn to play.

[XPICTO]

RK the single hardest class to play (as a healer) in the moors right now, and by my estimation is around ~932,384x as difficult to play as defiler is. Just in case you can't count I'll put it into long words for you, that's: Nine hundred and thirty-two thousand three hundred and eighty-four times as difficult.

RK is IMMENSELY susceptible to silence and disarm, both give it a 99% grey-bar, and with any half competent group of 2 creeps on a RK, if it receives either of these debuffs it'll take at least 4-6 seconds to clear, that's an awful long time when you're also stunning it, rooting it, fearing it, and that's just one silence/disarm, wargs can silence FIVE TIMES per minute, EACH. If you struggle to keep a RK CC'd with more than 3 creeps, you're really not playing your class to it's full potential.

A good RK healer is tough to kill, but compared to a good defiler? There's no comparison, as mentioned above, you can CC a defiler but a full row of hots each healing roughly what 1x minstrel 5min CD heals, you're on a loser.

That said, if any 4 dps freeps couldn't take out 1 defiler, they need to learn to play.

1. Rk can out heal 2creeps even trough silence.
2. It can heal every 2secs a disarm/silence so it can heal both in 2secs. Since last update they can use the skill even when disarmed.
3. MAybe you havent noticed but 50% of silences get resisted. So we go into 2silences in a min as at least half are resisted.
4. Tell me how you can kill a CC-ed rk, which have better heals than defi, trough the HoTs, but you cant kill a CC-ed defi, which have worse heals than rk, with a row of HoTs? Makes no sence.
5. With 20k+ health, 13k bubbles, one goes with heal, the other triggers a heal, 2k selfbubble, a big heal, and a row of dots, combined with bugged stunstone, gl with killing a healing rk with less than 4creeps.
6. Even dps rk have heals beyond its needs. I.e. few times i had to do 60k to kill an dps rk. Doing 14k hits while outhealing 2-3times your morale is much imo but wont comment it more. Yes fire/lightning can be facerolled by a warg, but is that the point?

[Ethrildar]

1. Rk can out heal 2creeps even trough silence.
2. It can heal every 2secs a disarm/silence so it can heal both in 2secs. Since last update they can use the skill even when disarmed.
3. MAybe you havent noticed but 50% of silences get resisted. So we go into 2silences in a min as at least half are resisted.
4. Tell me how you can kill a CC-ed rk, which have better heals than defi, trough the HoTs, but you cant kill a CC-ed defi, which have worse heals than rk, with a row of HoTs? Makes no sence.
5. With 20k+ health, 13k bubbles, one goes with heal, the other triggers a heal, 2k selfbubble, a big heal, and a row of dots, combined with bugged stunstone, gl with killing a healing rk with less than 4creeps.
6. Even dps rk have heals beyond its needs. I.e. few times i had to do 60k to kill an dps rk. Doing 14k hits while outhealing 2-3times your morale is much imo but wont comment it more. Yes fire/lightning can be facerolled by a warg, but is that the point?

1) An RK is 99% grey-barred while silenced, no, it cannot outheal two creeps or even one creep when silenced, you're a moron.
2) Scribe a New Ending cures 1 debuff every 2 seconds, every creep class has at least 2 (some have up to 5) potable debuffs which you can apply before your silence/disarm, so they waste this skill on curing those, not the disarm/silence. The skills cooldown is longer than it's effect by 33% and it has a 1.5 second lead-time so it's immensely clunky and doesn't fit in with a rotation, it also can't be used whilst silenced, so just apply your disarm then silence the RK and voila, it's 100% greybarred and cannot do anything for 5-10 seconds.
3) 50% of silences? On my warg I'd say it's more like 5%, combat analysis seems to agree with this.
4) Better heals than defis? When not CC'd sure they do, single target heals on themselves only, if not harrassed by one warg. With one warg, a RK is likely to get off 1/4 of it's inductions, which takes it's healing down from defiler-level heals to more like red cappy level heals. If you can't harrass a healing RK to this point, again, you're playing your warg WRONG.
5) 13k bubbles? The largest bubble a RK can place is a 6.8k bubble on a cooldown CD assuming full attunement, aka, not from the very start. No idea where you've got 13k from, although I'd assume it's the same place as where you got "defilers aren't that strong healers" from.
6) DPS RKs have two things they can use, in fire-line they have a 15 sec CD 5k heal, which can't be used whilst disarmed, aside from that they can bubble themselves for 2-6.8k assuming they take the time out of doing any DPS to use this, which would be detrimental since a 7k bubble is 3 hits from Bestial Claws, exluding all other rotational skills. A lightning RK hasn't even got the 5k heal, it's got sustaining bolt, a 2k heal on a 15 sec CD, which whilst clearly a MASSIVE MASSIVE self-heal, is really not that bad.

In response to your argument that DPS RKs have way too much survivability, but you faceroll them on your warg anyway, what more need I say, you can FACEROLL A CLASS that you think is overpowered? I won't even go into CD-spamming reavers that have about as much survivability as every freep class combined all in one, although personally I have no issue with reavers, talking about the survivability of a freepside low-morale, low-mits induction class as overpowered whilst in the same sentence saying how you can faceroll any RK anyway, is just beyond comprehension.

.............. Defiler healing is WAY, WAY better than RK healing UNLESS the RK is left to just heal as much as it likes with no CC, harrassment from any 1 creep, no debuffs, and if there's a warg on it, say goodbye to anything it's trying to heal.

[XPICTO]

1) An RK is 99% grey-barred while silenced, no, it cannot outheal two creeps or even one creep when silenced, you're a moron.
2) Scribe a New Ending cures 1 debuff every 2 seconds, every creep class has at least 2 (some have up to 5) potable debuffs which you can apply before your silence/disarm, so they waste this skill on curing those, not the disarm/silence. The skills cooldown is longer than it's effect by 33% and it has a 1.5 second lead-time so it's immensely clunky and doesn't fit in with a rotation, it also can't be used whilst silenced, so just apply your disarm then silence the RK and voila, it's 100% greybarred and cannot do anything for 5-10 seconds.
3) 50% of silences? On my warg I'd say it's more like 5%, combat analysis seems to agree with this.
4) Better heals than defis? When not CC'd sure they do, single target heals on themselves only, if not harrassed by one warg. With one warg, a RK is likely to get off 1/4 of it's inductions, which takes it's healing down from defiler-level heals to more like red cappy level heals. If you can't harrass a healing RK to this point, again, you're playing your warg WRONG.
5) 13k bubbles? The largest bubble a RK can place is a 6.8k bubble on a cooldown CD assuming full attunement, aka, not from the very start. No idea where you've got 13k from, although I'd assume it's the same place as where you got "defilers aren't that strong healers" from.
6) DPS RKs have two things they can use, in fire-line they have a 15 sec CD 5k heal, which can't be used whilst disarmed, aside from that they can bubble themselves for 2-6.8k assuming they take the time out of doing any DPS to use this, which would be detrimental since a 7k bubble is 3 hits from Bestial Claws, exluding all other rotational skills. A lightning RK hasn't even got the 5k heal, it's got sustaining bolt, a 2k heal on a 15 sec CD, which whilst clearly a MASSIVE MASSIVE self-heal, is really not that bad.

In response to your argument that DPS RKs have way too much survivability, but you faceroll them on your warg anyway, what more need I say, you can FACEROLL A CLASS that you think is overpowered? I won't even go into CD-spamming reavers that have about as much survivability as every freep class combined all in one, although personally I have no issue with reavers, talking about the survivability of a freepside low-morale, low-mits induction class as overpowered whilst in the same sentence saying how you can faceroll any RK anyway, is just beyond comprehension.

.............. Defiler healing is WAY, WAY better than RK healing UNLESS the RK is left to just heal as much as it likes with no CC, harrassment from any 1 creep, no debuffs, and if there's a warg on it, say goodbye to anything it's trying to heal.

1st it can outheal 2creeps and you're the moron.
2nd they are resisted most of time... and warg can silence more than 5times in a min
3rd harrasing selfbubbled rk? must me joking.
4th the 13k BUBBLES i said are 2bubbles each applying 6.8k. As i said they trigger heals, one hot and one normal heal.

about facerolling a dps rk did i say how so you can say what you said? pounce then go flayer = faceroll, it will neither load an induction not will execute a skill, shadow warg cant faceroll. Flayer is the faceroll stance vs some classes but being able to faceroll them does not make classes not OP vs shadow warg. And dont forget warg have advantage of hitting first while other classes dont have it and this survivability may not problem some times as you can dps, then rk heals and you start from full health, but if you're visible until you get to the rk you have lost health and rk have saved a heal. Comparing a cc-ed rk to uncc-ed defi ###?. If you cant cc a defi enough then you play wrong. You suggest creeps to cc rks, do the same to freeps and stop QQ about defi heals.

[Ethrildar]

1st it can outheal 2creeps and you're the moron.
2nd they are resisted most of time... and warg can silence more than 5times in a min
3rd harrasing selfbubbled rk? must me joking.
4th the 13k BUBBLES i said are 2bubbles each applying 6.8k. As i said they trigger heals, one hot and one normal heal.

about facerolling a dps rk did i say how so you can say what you said? pounce then go flayer = faceroll, it will neither load an induction not will execute a skill, shadow warg cant faceroll. Flayer is the faceroll stance vs some classes but being able to faceroll them does not make classes not OP vs shadow warg. And dont forget warg have advantage of hitting first while other classes dont have it and this survivability may not problem some times as you can dps, then rk heals and you start from full health, but if you're visible until you get to the rk you have lost health and rk have saved a heal. Comparing a cc-ed rk to uncc-ed defi ###?. If you cant cc a defi enough then you play wrong. You suggest creeps to cc rks, do the same to freeps and stop QQ about defi heals.

Although the majority of your post is unreadable, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English is your fourth of fifth language.

The point wasn't that a RK can't outheal 2 creeps, the point was that with the ONE SKILL that isn't greyed out due to silence, a RK cannot outheal two creeps. This is very basic and simple to understand, that one skill has a cooldown.

...Resisted most of the time, again, this is bias, my combat analysis suggests ~5% resists, why is yours TEN TIMES higher than mine? My warg is Rank 7, so it has less than ranked wargs' finesse, too.

Harrassing a self bubbled RK, uhh... Yes? 3 skills and it's bubble is gone, the bubble can proc one heal which is burst healing, then it's gone, so... Yeah? Carry on interrupting, interrupts work on it whether it's bubble or not... I don't see your point, defilers only have 3 induction heals (with microscopic inductions) which are all heal over time skills, the differece being these HOT skills are around ~15x the potency of a RK heal over time skill, and the defiler has 6 of them including creep-equiv shieldwall & constant pain.

So again you think RKs are wayyyy overpowered but again, you faceroll them on your warg. Right. Okay then... They must be super overpowered.