More inc heal debuffs!

[XPICTO]

Although the majority of your post is unreadable, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English is your fourth of fifth language.

The point wasn't that a RK can't outheal 2 creeps, the point was that with the ONE SKILL that isn't greyed out due to silence, a RK cannot outheal two creeps. This is very basic and simple to understand, that one skill has a cooldown.

...Resisted most of the time, again, this is bias, my combat analysis suggests ~5% resists, why is yours TEN TIMES higher than mine? My warg is Rank 7, so it has less than ranked wargs' finesse, too.

Harrassing a self bubbled RK, uhh... Yes? 3 skills and it's bubble is gone, the bubble can proc one heal which is burst healing, then it's gone, so... Yeah? Carry on interrupting, interrupts work on it whether it's bubble or not... I don't see your point, defilers only have 3 induction heals (with microscopic inductions) which are all heal over time skills, the differece being these HOT skills are around ~15x the potency of a RK heal over time skill, and the defiler has 6 of them including creep-equiv shieldwall & constant pain.

So again you think RKs are wayyyy overpowered but again, you faceroll them on your warg. Right. Okay then... They must be super overpowered.

5% resists of all used skills it is not of silence skills. How can u do a 5% resist for 1min when you use 5skills in this time? math isnt you friend?
Do you make difference between bubble and selfbubble? I'll say it this way harrasing rk when he has dazebubble on? Now you might get it its not the bubble but the permadaze which makes in impossible. The defi absorb skill is easily interuped why u even mention it? defi have 6dots while rks have more HoTs. I said i can faceroll dps rk in flayer, but playing flayer isnt practical. Being able fo faceroll them in a stance different than the one i play 90% of time does not make them less OP in wargs main stance. Do you even know differences between flayer/shadow?

[Ethrildar]

5% resists of all used skills it is not of silence skills. How can u do a 5% resist for 1min when you use 5skills in this time? math isnt you friend?
Do you make difference between bubble and selfbubble? I'll say it this way harrasing rk when he has dazebubble on? Now you might get it its not the bubble but the permadaze which makes in impossible. The defi absorb skill is easily interuped why u even mention it? defi have 6dots while rks have more HoTs. I said i can faceroll dps rk in flayer, but playing flayer isnt practical. Being able fo faceroll them in a stance different than the one i play 90% of time does not make them less OP in wargs main stance. Do you even know differences between flayer/shadow?

Maths clearly isn't your friend, you can view resists of specific skills over an entire day's pvp with combat analysis, they don't all have to be used in one minute you fool.

So what you're saying is the fact that RK can reflect a mezz (that you can stun pot 25% of) he's totally unkillable? It's 20 seconds with a 180 second CD, avoid the RK for 20 seconds and then focus it??????? This 20 second period hardly makes the RK entirely unkillable.

If you can faceroll someone in flayer, that makes flayer practical, that's common sense.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you, since even sub-par intelligence seems difficult for you to reach.

[Giliodor]

Flayer isn't practical, and yet you play(ed in HD, don't know about now) in Flayer 24/7? Oh, I see.

[XPICTO]

Maths clearly isn't your friend, you can view resists of specific skills over an entire day's pvp with combat analysis, they don't all have to be used in one minute you fool.

So what you're saying is the fact that RK can reflect a mezz (that you can stun pot 25% of) he's totally unkillable? It's 20 seconds with a 180 second CD, avoid the RK for 20 seconds and then focus it??????? This 20 second period hardly makes the RK entirely unkillable.

If you can faceroll someone in flayer, that makes flayer practical, that's common sense.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you, since even sub-par intelligence seems difficult for you to reach.

Practical is something you can use on many occasions which flayer isnt. Daze bubble makes rk almost impossble to be killed. Please let me see how you'll pot 25% of the dazes an rk can apply to you for 20secs... Another proof you missed math classes. Avoiding healing rk 20secs makes him able to selfheal if he drops down. Remove your WardennotOP and DefihealsmorethanRk glasses and use your brain. It helps only if you have brain though.

[Ethrildar]

Practical is something you can use on many occasions which flayer isnt. Daze bubble makes rk almost impossble to be killed. Please let me see how you'll pot 25% of the dazes an rk can apply to you for 20secs... Another proof you missed math classes. Avoiding healing rk 20secs makes him able to selfheal if he drops down. Remove your WardennotOP and DefihealsmorethanRk glasses and use your brain. It helps only if you have brain though.

25% of 20 seconds is what? 5.

Your stun pot lasts how long? 5 seconds.

I'll say no more, once you realise how stupid you are you might fall into depression and I don't want that on my conscience.

[Giliodor]

Practical is something you can use on many occasions which flayer isnt. Daze bubble makes rk almost impossble to be killed. Please let me see how you'll pot 25% of the dazes an rk can apply to you for 20secs... Another proof you missed math classes. Avoiding healing rk 20secs makes him able to selfheal if he drops down. Remove your WardennotOP and DefihealsmorethanRk glasses and use your brain. It helps only if you have brain though.

A few things...
1. The game isn't balanced around solo play. RK AoS only dazes on melee hits.
2. How is AoS OP compared to a skill like Moving Target? This skill gives god-mode against hunters and totally screws up melee classes... yet has a higher uptime than AoS.
3. When a warg can nuke down light armours so quickly, and has 2 (reliable) silences, why would freep healers NOT need such a skill?

[XPICTO]

25% of 20 seconds is what? 5.

Your stun pot lasts how long? 5 seconds.

I'll say no more, once you realise how stupid you are you might fall into depression and I don't want that on my conscience.

are you stupid? Stun pot is never 5secs... lol its less than 4secs due to recovery time and you get chainstunned get a bleed on the rk... i play mostly flayer? ok np

[Leopoldio]

Ye, stun pots and responses on em are totally screwed up.
Wanna kill rk ? Find 1 BA, 1/2 Spiders. Perma stun FTW

Complaining about RK stuns is just ridicilous given what abilities creeps have now.

[Wilantuk]

This thread is about inc heal debuffs please leave if your going to just make posts to insult each other about a topic the thread isn't even about. Clearly the two of you need to go off in a corner and have a slap fight somewhere please do and leave the thread.

Where is turbines forum mods?

[XPICTO]

Ye, stun pots and responses on em are totally screwed up.
Wanna kill rk ? Find 1 BA, 1/2 Spiders. Perma stun FTW

Complaining about RK stuns is just ridicilous given what abilities creeps have now.

the main point is to harrass a rk by warg

[UsaByz]

Man reading these threads, all i seem to read i about how hard it is to be a creep right now.
lol.

[XPICTO]

A few things...
1. The game isn't balanced around solo play. RK AoS only dazes on melee hits.
2. How is AoS OP compared to a skill like Moving Target? This skill gives god-mode against hunters and totally screws up melee classes... yet has a higher uptime than AoS.
3. When a warg can nuke down light armours so quickly, and has 2 (reliable) silences, why would freep healers NOT need such a skill?

MT is 15secs long... what the fk is QQ stun the BA and 1/4 is gone. What to say about TnG? it has longer uptime on shorter cd.

[MonkeyTamer]

A few things...
1. The game isn't balanced around solo play. RK AoS only dazes on melee hits.
2. How is AoS OP compared to a skill like Moving Target? This skill gives god-mode against hunters and totally screws up melee classes... yet has a higher uptime than AoS.
3. When a warg can nuke down light armours so quickly, and has 2 (reliable) silences, why would freep healers NOT need such a skill?

You are uninformed. Don't be offended to hear it, it is just the truth. AoS stuns on DoT's frequently, there is no question. AoS is great compared to MT which is a 15 second survival skill against physical attacks only. Hunters have the most bother with it because of the extra buff against ranged attacks. And what about wargs and nuking light classes!? You're kidding! of course when they are afk. Otherwise good luck cutting through AoS and a lot of spam heals from an RK, or the stuns and slows with repeated heals from a mini, and LM's?? is there a need to go on.

So freeps with their fantastic dps and heals want a little more as well. What a joke.

Champs have great dps and don't need to debuff anyone's incoming heals.

Defilers have very good heals for now and we need it obviously.

RK's have tremendous capacity to heal with HoT's and protect with a very good bubble and Our Fates Entwined. Whoever says they are difficult to play is probably still trying to pass the kindergarten entrance examination.

[MonkeyTamer]

This thread is about inc heal debuffs please leave if your going to just make posts to insult each other about a topic the thread isn't even about. Clearly the two of you need to go off in a corner and have a slap fight somewhere please do and leave the thread.

Where is turbines forum mods?

Turbine's Forum Mod's were probably all laid off as excess.

[Thorandril]

still waiting for champions (the only dps class without a heal
debuff) to get theirs. current redline set is sorta (read: entirely) worthless

[infinitewhimsy]

Due to the current state of the moors I believe champs are entitled to a heal debuff back. This is the moors now, so every class must keep up. My idea is Merciful Strike crits put a 50% inc heal debuff for 8 seconds. Simple change it could be part of a 4 suit bonus for aud armor or something. Have fun all.

- Derlan of Arkenstone

That's a pretty awful idea, considering the traits for MS.

1) An RK is 99% grey-barred while silenced, no, it cannot outheal two creeps or even one creep when silenced, you're a moron.
2) Scribe a New Ending cures 1 debuff every 2 seconds, every creep class has at least 2 (some have up to 5) potable debuffs which you can apply before your silence/disarm, so they waste this skill on curing those, not the disarm/silence. The skills cooldown is longer than it's effect by 33% and it has a 1.5 second lead-time so it's immensely clunky and doesn't fit in with a rotation, it also can't be used whilst silenced, so just apply your disarm then silence the RK and voila, it's 100% greybarred and cannot do anything for 5-10 seconds.
3) 50% of silences? On my warg I'd say it's more like 5%, combat analysis seems to agree with this.
4) Better heals than defis? When not CC'd sure they do, single target heals on themselves only, if not harrassed by one warg. With one warg, a RK is likely to get off 1/4 of it's inductions, which takes it's healing down from defiler-level heals to more like red cappy level heals. If you can't harrass a healing RK to this point, again, you're playing your warg WRONG.
5) 13k bubbles? The largest bubble a RK can place is a 6.8k bubble on a cooldown CD assuming full attunement, aka, not from the very start. No idea where you've got 13k from, although I'd assume it's the same place as where you got "defilers aren't that strong healers" from.
6) DPS RKs have two things they can use, in fire-line they have a 15 sec CD 5k heal, which can't be used whilst disarmed, aside from that they can bubble themselves for 2-6.8k assuming they take the time out of doing any DPS to use this, which would be detrimental since a 7k bubble is 3 hits from Bestial Claws, exluding all other rotational skills. A lightning RK hasn't even got the 5k heal, it's got sustaining bolt, a 2k heal on a 15 sec CD, which whilst clearly a MASSIVE MASSIVE self-heal, is really not that bad.

In response to your argument that DPS RKs have way too much survivability, but you faceroll them on your warg anyway, what more need I say, you can FACEROLL A CLASS that you think is overpowered? I won't even go into CD-spamming reavers that have about as much survivability as every freep class combined all in one, although personally I have no issue with reavers, talking about the survivability of a freepside low-morale, low-mits induction class as overpowered whilst in the same sentence saying how you can faceroll any RK anyway, is just beyond comprehension.

.............. Defiler healing is WAY, WAY better than RK healing UNLESS the RK is left to just heal as much as it likes with no CC, harrassment from any 1 creep, no debuffs, and if there's a warg on it, say goodbye to anything it's trying to heal.

I feel like the Freep to Creep heal comparison is pretty pointless. I think an RK healer requires a disproportionate response compared to a Defiler. If a Defiler got hit by as much CC (Silence/Disarm here being a CC) and as many players (DPS) as is required to take down an RK it'd be utterly destroyed. Synergistically I think RKs are much better. I'd say Freeps are much better. What's more, I feel Defiler has to be as good as it is because of how bad WLs are.

[Ethrildar]

That's a pretty awful idea, considering the traits for MS.


I feel like the Freep to Creep heal comparison is pretty pointless. I think an RK healer requires a disproportionate response compared to a Defiler. If a Defiler got hit by as much CC (Silence/Disarm here being a CC) and as many players (DPS) as is required to take down an RK it'd be utterly destroyed. Synergistically I think RKs are much better. I'd say Freeps are much better. What's more, I feel Defiler has to be as good as it is because of how bad WLs are.

3 competent (note, competent) creeps can take down a RK healer provided at least two are any creep DPS. Defilers are somewhat the same, the difference being silence/disarm do basically nothing to Defiler, and that the skill-level on Defiler starts at, lets say, -17/10, and the skill-level required to competently play a Rune-keeper is somewhat higher. That, and Defilers are a dime a dozen, RK healers are certainly not, they have to be levelled up, geared, and then have a player with some semblance of intelligence. Defilers can be more than playable in a matter of minutes, with a little TP, and a couple of hours of healtagging the zergball leaves you midway through your blue ranks, more than sufficient to small group, not that any FOTM defiler would be looking to small group.

If a RK is hit by a few silences, and disarms, or heal debuffs, shortly after taking a couple of random debuffs and 1-2 attack duration debuffs, he is right-royally stuffed, it takes 2-3 competent creeps to achieve this, given the spammability of silences, the tiny CD on disarms, and the massive CD reductions pretty much every creep debuff skill took at some point with HD for no apparent reason. Simple fact is, what silences and disarms do freeps have in their arsenal to CC-lock a Defiler? Next-to (with the removal of two gear sets I can remember, Burg/LM) none. 1 chance at disarm from Guardian 4-piece set that no Guard in his right mind would use.

Not sure why I'm wasting my time responding to someone who adds this to one of their posts and expects a balanced response though:

Defiler has to be as good as it is because of how bad WLs are.

No. Bad War-leaders are bad, good WLs absolutely rock, the class is almost entirely balanced with the only exception being it could use one more (minor) heal to fill in rotational gaps in healing. The class, when compared to it's Freepside equivalent is a thousand times superior, and when, in it's intended role, it's combined with other WLs and Defilers, more than adequately fulfils it's group role. Your WL issues are your own, or those of your friends, not the wider community.

Defilers/RKs are both decent healers, they have different weaknesses, difference is RKs healers do not make up 80% of most Freep groups, unlike Defilers within Creep zergballs. A 3 year old mashing the keyboard can succeed (and do, check Brandywine) on Defiler, to do the same on RK would land you straight in the rez circle in a matter of split seconds. When RKs can be spammed out with 2k TP in under 2 minutes and be ridiculously overpowered by any moron, THEN you'll see me here arguing for down-balancing of their potency.

[sm91]

The class, when compared to it's Freepside equivalent is a thousand times superior

What game are you playing?

[Ethrildar]

What game are you playing?

Same game, only on a server with competent War-leaders.

[sm91]

Same game, only on a server with competent War-leaders.

If you think the class is a thousand times better than cappies (and minis), clearly you play with worst cappies (and minis)in this game.

[zolander]

WL are pretty UP, just put 2 burgs on a WL and you will be able to interput all their heals
Defilers are balanced right now, if u want to complain about something complain about the bugged RK essences
RKs have pretty good heals right now, they are way better then minis for sure.
I think game is balanced right now, expect warden bleeds needs a little nerf, otherwise it's pretty good so stop QQing

---

[infinitewhimsy]

3 competent (note, competent) creeps can take down a RK healer provided at least two are any creep DPS.

Quickly? Reasonably? No. I suspect you haven't actually seen a good RK. Most are terrible, after all. I haven't seen a single one properly configured in my Moors, but that doesn't mean the option doesn't exist, and that objectively they are capable of being as described...significantly better than their Creepside parallels.

No. Bad War-leaders are bad, good WLs absolutely rock, the class is almost entirely balanced with the only exception being it could use one more (minor) heal to fill in rotational gaps in healing. The class, when compared to it's Freepside equivalent is a thousand times superior, and when, in it's intended role, it's combined with other WLs and Defilers, more than adequately fulfils it's group role. Your WL issues are your own, or those of your friends, not the wider community.

Defilers/RKs are both decent healers, they have different weaknesses, difference is RKs healers do not make up 80% of most Freep groups, unlike Defilers within Creep zergballs. A 3 year old mashing the keyboard can succeed (and do, check Brandywine) on Defiler, to do the same on RK would land you straight in the rez circle in a matter of split seconds. When RKs can be spammed out with 2k TP in under 2 minutes and be ridiculously overpowered by any moron, THEN you'll see me here arguing for down-balancing of their potency.

This is just an outrageous thing to say, WLs are FUNDAMENTALLY bad, they only have so many heals and are reliant on crits on other skills with cds to get them off reliably. A Warleader is only as good as bad Freeps let them be.

I really feel that people who are even remotely impressed by Creep heals in the current Moors environment don't fully understand or utilize the Freep arsenal. Given even numbers Freeps should destroy Creeps.

[Wilantuk]

No class performs as well as a good cappy its ridiculous to think otherwise, cappys rock they always have and I hope they always do.

[sm91]

No class performs as well as a good cappy its ridiculous to think otherwise, cappys rock they always have and I hope they always do.

Of course, but we are trying to convince a freep goggled FoTM warden who is strongly arguing even vs any nerf to warden bleeds and saying how all his previous FoTM freep classes are weak(even if they are actually fine or OP).

Next he will try to convince all people about how WL heals is way better than mini heals.

[Thorandril]

Same game, only on a server with competent War-leaders.

Hardly competent, the only notable feature about brandywines warleaders is that there's always so many of them. Which is pretty much why creeps win almost every encounter, historically it's been that way since beta.