LM hell debuff

[LEGENDofALL]

Since everyone wants, wants , wants I'd like to see a class that's suppose to be a cc class get a heal debuff, now I'm not saying this should come in any tree line but should be in the yellow line and give it some real use for a half useless tree line.


I'm sure there's going to be a lot of no, no , no's but I'd like to hear why.

[Everyone]

Since everyone wants, wants , wants I'd like to see a class that's suppose to be a cc class get a heal debuff, now I'm not saying this should come in any tree line but should be in the yellow line and give it some real use for a half useless tree line.


I'm sure there's going to be a lot of no, no , no's but I'd like to hear why.

Yeah sure. What with the BA VT debuff, I think it is well warranted.

And I agree yellow needs some viability and validation.

[Ethrildar]

I'd agree it's warranted and it would be much enjoyed by anyone who plays a LM.

Anyone saying yellow-line is half useless is out of their mind or doesn't know how it works, though.

[Spilo]

I'd agree it's warranted and it would be much enjoyed by anyone who plays a LM.

Anyone saying yellow-line is half useless is out of their mind or doesn't know how it works, though.

It offers very little more in comparison to a red-yellow hybrid- Air Lore, Herb-lore (on a nice long cooldown), Enfeeble, and +15s duration of debuffs. The only truly significant one of these is the ability so spam +30% attack duration and destroying mitigations of specific targets with Enfeeble + Ancient Craft.

[Everyone]

It offers very little more in comparison to a red-yellow hybrid- Air Lore, Herb-lore (on a nice long cooldown), Enfeeble, and +15s duration of debuffs. The only truly significant one of these is the ability so spam +30% attack duration and destroying mitigations of specific targets with Enfeeble + Ancient Craft.

Yuhs. A capstone inc. healing debuff would do yellow a lot of good, enough to make it a viable and valid choice.

[LEGENDofALL]

I'd agree it's warranted and it would be much enjoyed by anyone who plays a LM.

Anyone saying yellow-line is half useless is out of their mind or doesn't know how it works, though.

I know exactly how it works and what spilo said is pretty spot on, you're better with a combo red tree and some yellow or reverse but overall yellow needs work.

[motumbo]

I'm no where near a LM expert but what if we changed to heal debuff suggested here to a incoming healing buff. There are enough heal debuffs in the game. Thoughts?

[LEGENDofALL]

I'm no where near a LM expert but what if we changed to heal debuff suggested here to a incoming healing buff. There are enough heal debuffs in the game. Thoughts?

It's the same thing and while I agree with you there's enough already I will argue that some of the wrong classes have it. If the LM is suppose to be a support class/cc class(when they made it that was their job) then they're one of the classes that truly should have it.

Do I think some classes should lose it? Yes and in my opinion Ba and hunter but that's my take on it and I know others will disagree

[Vulcwen]

It's the same thing and while I agree with you there's enough already I will argue that some of the wrong classes have it. If the LM is suppose to be a support class/cc class(when they made it that was their job) then they're one of the classes that truly should have it.

Do I think some classes should lose it? Yes and in my opinion Ba and hunter but that's my take on it and I know others will disagree

Hmm.. it kinda depends on how to think about incoming healing debuffs. You could say they belong to support classes, because they are debuffs. But you can also say they belong to DPS classes, as they make the damage they do have a larger impact. You could view incoming healing debuffs as physical damage (to the health of a character, instead of morale), and that feeling that "pain" makes you harder to encourage.

Overall, I don't think it really matters.. it'd be nice if LMs get a healing debuff, but it's not really needed as well.

[spelunker]

Seems like a good idea to give yellow some love. This would be a big step up for yellow line in the moors, but I do think the yellow capstone should be reserved for changing the quality of how the entire line plays out (which the current capstone don't do well now). Put a trait unlocking it at the second or third highest tier of yellow so it's essentially innacessable, but don't make a moors specific capstone for the class.

For the debuff itself: I'd like to see it be potable and about 30-35% in strength, but stack with other freep Inc debuffs. 30 cooldown, 15s duration.

[Sezneg]

Seems like a good idea to give yellow some love. This would be a big step up for yellow line in the moors, but I do think the yellow capstone should be reserved for changing the quality of how the entire line plays out (which the current capstone don't do well now). Put a trait unlocking it at the second or third highest tier of yellow so it's essentially innacessable, but don't make a moors specific capstone for the class.

For the debuff itself: I'd like to see it be potable and about 30-35% in strength, but stack with other freep Inc debuffs. 30 cooldown, 15s duration.

If they ever fix the grace period boosts in this line to effect "all" cc as stated yellow would be the most OP thing of all time.

I don't like the heal debuff arms race. Removing some of the overabundant incoming boosts seems like a better solution.

[spelunker]

If they ever fix the grace period boosts in this line to effect "all" cc as stated yellow would be the most OP thing of all time.

It would certainly be up there in terms of 'OP', but at least atm it isn't, so my suggestion deals with what is.

I don't like the heal debuff arms race. Removing some of the overabundant incoming boosts seems like a better solution.

I agree in part, but especially on freepside now the utility of carrying a LM over a number of other classes, and/or doubling up on other classes over an LM is not that great. IMO the game should be aiming for a position such that the group carrying a fair mix of classes is in as good or better a position compared to the group stacking certain classes. Given the state of heals on either side, there is little doubt that inc healing debuffs are important to group fighting, and a 'support' class without this functionality loses a lot in group support capacity. By having it with a 50% uptime, and a generally weaker potency (and also being potable) the LM needs to take some care in its application, AND take advantage of the fact that it does stack with other sources for max usefullness, which brings important elements to both the individual class and group dynamics.

The inc healing bonus tied to BFPs was a terrible idea with an even worse implementation. It needs to be removed, or at the very least reduced to a 0-15% scale rather than 0-50%.

[Ames]

I thought LM already has a hell debuff. It's called Ring of fire...

[spelunker]

I thought LM already has a hell debuff. It's called Ring of fire...

That's a server debuff.

[Sezneg]

That's a server debuff.

Simultaneously hilarious and depressing.

[Ames]

That's a server debuff.

Same difference :P

[Vulcwen]

Same difference :P

Yeh kinda.. although it's also friendly fire

[LEGENDofALL]

Har har it says hell instead of heal and Ames is making fun of me because I have ring of fire at max size and I lag her out so she dies.


I guess I meant Incoming healing dps and while I understand the dps comment on why they have it I'd counter with defiler has it as they're not a dps machine by no means.

The proper classes in the right trait line should have a skill like this.


Just my view on lm

[Thorandril]

Soon as Champions get one..

Sticking it on See All Ends would be grand, or Wind Lore... that skill is terrible.

[Armdyl]

Soon as Champions get one..

Sticking it on See All Ends would be grand, or Wind Lore... that skill is terrible.

if you stick it on see all ends fine..but also increase the critical rating debuff. wind-lore would have to be changed because it has a 10 second cooldown or 5 can't remember. but they would need to fix the resist bug before even attempting that.

[Sezneg]

The inc healing bonus tied to BFPs was a terrible idea with an even worse implementation. It needs to be removed, or at the very least reduced to a 0-15% scale rather than 0-50%.

We agree here. But adding bandaid skill mechanics just makes fixing the underlying issue harder - and should it ever be fixed, it will be difficult to remove something players get used to using as a useful class mechanic.

[spelunker]

We agree here. But adding bandaid skill mechanics just makes fixing the underlying issue harder - and should it ever be fixed, it will be difficult to remove something players get used to using as a useful class mechanic.

Well, to give some perspective on my opinion of the direction things should take. I think heals need MASSIVE across the board nerfs on both sides (moreso freepside, but definitely both sides) and/or audacity's dmg reduction be removed and replaced with a roughly doubling of health pools. Simply reducing or eliminating the current inc healing bonuses available on either side wouldn't go far enough in reducing the effectiveness of healing, imo.

I want to see healing reduced to a slowing of the rate your group dies, not something with the easy potential to completely avoid deaths happening. I don't see this ever being in the moors paradigm, so I support literally every class getting some inc healing debuff functionality, with more targeted classes and skills adding the ability to stack -inc healing.

[LEGENDofALL]

There's imo a lot of useless skill on LM for pvp and even some for pve but at this time I really don't see any changes coming or for that matter ever.

[Spilo]

LMs need far more of a change that what's detailed here (check this out: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...nges-Requested), but I do agree that heals are too powerful, especially on freepside.

[LEGENDofALL]

LMs need far more of a change that what's detailed here (check this out: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...nges-Requested), but I do agree that heals are too powerful, especially on freepside.

While the heals are powerful for pvp you also have to remember it's not based on pvp, we can wish about changes that are needed but we can be real and understand not much will get done.

I also want a Ents pet