15.2 Player music

[SpiritusLOTRO]

After that point we will continue to make tweaks as we are able based on the feedback you have given on off-notes or other issues and will be looking into adding another lute in a future update.
Vyvyanne

Again, thank you for your work. I know you have to balance a lot of different issues when tinkering with a system that has been largely left unaltered for so long.

That being said, I would have preferred a delay until the off-timbre notes were properly addressed, but I came to the realization a bit ago that this wouldn't happen with U16. I understand that tweaking timbre is a difficult task when facing more pressing concerns like dropped notes (a more technical, non-artistic issue). I hope to work with your team to address these off-timbre notes as I've enumerated in previous posts (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post7317583) in future beta builds.

Regarding the "another lute," I recommend using the Gondorian Harp (Lyre) model as seen in DA as used by NPCs. It's a drastically different model from the other harps that could easily be seen as something other than a re-skinned lute, while using the harp animation resources you already have.

[Lolorndinfey]

Great suggestion, Lifimun

Lyre

Lore friendly. Same string family. Love it. After U16 for consideration?

Some other considerations;

viola
cittern
laud
irish bouzouki
vihuela
guitar lute
bandolim
saz
tabouras

Maybe make this part of the Men of Bree rep reward set? Woodworkers craft wood rep items already, and viol's are in there but not playable? Personally I'd stay away from any string instrument that resembles the modern guilar.

[Thurallor]

I agree, that the testing went well, feedback was sent in, we spent time with the devs and they did really well to fix the dropped not issues. I really hope they did address the volumes and bad notes. I wish I could share your optimism that they will be fixed soon or have already been fixed. But from the last beta we tested, I was not in the thought that the new system was an improvement yet. We spent over four hours playing songs that last test session and of the three bands there, not one was impressed or thought it was ready. There were a few things we liked but we all agreed there was much work left to be done. I will test again when it goes live but I am in the thought that its not something I can work with and be satisfied if no further changes were made since the last beta test. I didn't want something new, I wanted something better. I don't feel we got that except with the horn. That thing is amazing.

*SIGH* What if we gave you bunny pets, would that satisfy you? /devs

[Lolorndinfey]

*SIGH* What if we gave you bunny pets, would that satisfy you? /devs

Nah. Something will end up lost in the the beta translation and we end up with cow pattern piglets making squeeky oink oink noises instead. Don't forget the wiggling curly tails...





I see two bunnies. How about you?

[Emere]

lol
~bunnyhugs~ to you Lolorndinfey!

[Vyvyanne]

Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16, however we have made some additional fixes and tweaks since you last Beta tested the 15.3 build. We have made many changes and improvements thanks to your feedback which is why we feel it is ready to move forward at this point and give the time that has been requested by you to adjust your songs before festival season.

[frickinmuck]

Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16, however we have made some additional fixes and tweaks since you last Beta tested the 15.3 build. We have made many changes and improvements thanks to your feedback which is why we feel it is ready to move forward at this point and give the time that has been requested by you to adjust your songs before festival season.

Thanks so much to the team for their hard work on this. I know there are some who are still dissatisfied, but there are many of us who are ecstatic that the changes will finally be going live. The old system was as buggy as the new one is said to be, people are just more used to the old. We will adjust as we did before, only with some great improvements along the way. Thanks so much for finally letting this out of the cage!

[Emere]

Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16, however we have made some additional fixes and tweaks since you last Beta tested the 15.3 build. We have made many changes and improvements thanks to your feedback which is why we feel it is ready to move forward at this point and give the time that has been requested by you to adjust your songs before festival season.

That is outstanding news indeed. I look forward to testing again. Thank you!

[robbie1435]

Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16,

This leads me to one of two conclusions...

1) You've actually fixed all the bugs, but just don't have time for one last beta to get the OK from the music community, which I think would be a mistake, as, since these people have most likely been working with the music system longer than the team set to work on it(Just from observation, one can see this). I would think that perhaps the update should wait until the Beta for U16, and have access to it for the first build, just to be sure before releasing it the monday after U16.1.

2) You've decided to speed push this music update out in order to make room for U16 Beta/Alpha, and feel that a few small tweaks that don't make it much better at all have been applied, in hopes of keeping the storm which is the music community calm for the time being.

I'm not going to say I believe either more than the other, because I don't, but I must admit: I am VERY skeptical.

[Orodbril]

This leads me to one of two conclusions...

1) You've actually fixed all the bugs, but just don't have time for one last beta to get the OK from the music community, which I think would be a mistake, as, since these people have most likely been working with the music system longer than the team set to work on it(Just from observation, one can see this). I would think that perhaps the update should wait until the Beta for U16, and have access to it for the first build, just to be sure before releasing it the monday after U16.1.

2) You've decided to speed push this music update out in order to make room for U16 Beta/Alpha, and feel that a few small tweaks that don't make it much better at all have been applied, in hopes of keeping the storm which is the music community calm for the time being.

I'm not going to say I believe either more than the other, because I don't, but I must admit: I am VERY skeptical.

I think some of you are just missing one point entirely in the last days: that procedure is something normal and nothing specific to the Music system tests. The team is normally 2-3 builds ahead of Bullroarer as far as I know. It was the same with Helms Deep for example. So there is one other build normally on Alpha (might be not the case in this situation) and another build the team is currently working on. So the build the team had been working on while you had another build on Bullroarer. Your feedback is used in the build the team was working on at that moment and now it is going life with things they could edit because of the feedback in the last build on BR. So what will be on life shouldn't be the same as on BR. ????

I hope that helps a bit...

[robbie1435]

Your feedback is used in the build the team was working on at that moment and now it is going life with things they could edit because of the feedback in the last build on BR.

True, but there could be something still off. They could have toned something up to much, removed a note that should have only been toned down. I still think it should get a final stamp of approval before release.

[Lolorndinfey]

Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16, however we have made some additional fixes and tweaks since you last Beta tested the 15.3 build. We have made many changes and improvements thanks to your feedback which is why we feel it is ready to move forward at this point and give the time that has been requested by you to adjust your songs before festival season.

Beorn bear hug, double pinchy cheeks and air kisses, have more pasta. You're so skinny!

*shoulder slaps Emere* Told ya so.

big fan, Vyv. You rock, girl

[Emere]

*shoulder slaps Emere* Told ya so.

*giggles and picks self up off the ground from the shoulder slap*
Hey..I ain' big nuff to be doin tha' to!

[robbie1435]

And I just want to apologize for being so stalwart and rude in my views, as I feel it is necessary. I'm very passionate about what I do, and I don't want to see years of hard work - not only from me, but other musicians as well - gone to waste for a crude, broken, buggy, and unfinished system.

[Tulipan]

Concerning additional instruments, there was this suggestion:

Maybe make this part of the Men of Bree rep reward set?

Please do not make us run through more hoops than necessary in order to be able to use (and acquire) any new instruments.
As it is now, players have to reach level 25 in order to play an almost-complete set of instruments (Moor Cowbell is at level 40, Pigborn at level 65(?) for non-minstrels) and this is doable even for the traveling musicians among us, it does not take long to reach level 25.

Introducing rep requirements for player music instruments is adding an unnecessary complexity to the game which would only be a pain in the bum.

It would be nice to have player music skill not be more dependent on toon level and deeds than it is now - it is after all a valid choice to take your time experiencing the game rather than race to level 100 (which works for some people).

[Lolorndinfey]

Please do not make us run through more hoops than necessary in order to be able to use (and acquire) any new instruments.

That's easily remedied. Make it a vendor item.

But in keeping with the trend of other musical instruments in game, such as the Lorien clarinet/horn, Forochel harp, Wildermore harp, that's why I suggested it as the much easier to acquire Men of Bree faction.

Are you suggesting we take all those other instruments and make them readily available without the need to level or gain rep to use?
(An honest question. Not a dig.)

[Emere]

That's easily remedied. Make it a vendor item.

But in keeping with the trend of other musical instruments in game, such as the Lorien clarinet/horn, Forochel harp, Wildermore harp, that's why I suggested it as the much easier to acquire Men of Bree faction.

Are you suggesting we take all those other instruments and make them readily available without the need to level or gain rep to use?
(An honest question. Not a dig.)

I would be completely against this. It was enough work to level my 7 band alts to 25 just so I could entertain folks with song and be able to use all instruments except the moor cowbell on them. I sure as hell am not willing to grind them all up in level further just to use a new instrument. We entertain. Is that not enough work already? Its not as if we get any in game rewards for the many hours we already put into doing music. I have a better idea. Don't put any level or rep requirements on them and give me a dang bunny pet for all the years I already put into entertaining at shows! yup...bunnypets....yup!

[Tulipan]

But in keeping with the trend of other musical instruments in game, such as the Lorien clarinet/horn, Forochel harp, Wildermore harp, that's why I suggested it as the much easier to acquire Men of Bree faction.

Are you suggesting we take all those other instruments and make them readily available without the need to level or gain rep to use?
(An honest question. Not a dig.)

If I got it right, the instruments mentioned in the quote are cosmetic only, meaning they still play like the basic harps, clarinets and horns and do not require special skills. I do not mind that grind is needed if one fancies a new skin for an instrument.

What I am thinking of is if any functionally new instruments were added, e.g. a 2nd kind of lute or a vibraphone or a trombone or a hollow log which you hit with a thighbone or a Hammond Organ then I should prefer that the corresponding skills and basic varieties of these instruments were available to all without the need for further grind.

[Rozalinde]

If I got it right, the instruments mentioned in the quote are cosmetic only, meaning they still play like the basic harps, clarinets and horns and do not require special skills. I do not mind that grind is needed if one fancies a new skin for an instrument.

I would love new instrument "skins" being introduced this way. Especially if they were done in the same manner as Gleowine's Harp--which was unbound and tradeable.

[Lolorndinfey]

Huh? Focus, panda. Focus. Eyes on the prize. Vyv is probably having a good laugh at how quick we are to be distracted from the prize; the new music system pending in U15.3

Level 10 is about 2 hours work. 15 is 3-4, and 20 is about 8-9 hours. It depends if you're sight seeing, grinding virtues along the way, crafting.
It's about 4? trips to the south of the Barrows to get friend standing with MoB. 6-8 trips to get kindred. It all depends on how you manage loot and bag space in inventory.
Starting at level 18, you can pretty much do this to gain friend to kindred. It really is not hard to do in one game day. Don't forget to pack disease pots!

Accesss to non-cosmetic instruments has always been level driven. Minstrels have access to 7 instruments coming out of the training instance. Levels 10,15, 25 being mile marker levels for access to drum, theorbo, bagpipe. If you need multiples of those last instruments, then you'd need to grind. Otherwise it's 40 min to 1 hour of work to get out of the training instance.

The suggestion was for access to a hypothetical new lute embedded into the Men of Bree reputation system. Viol. The recipe is available right away for any woodworker of Master level (tier5).

Just a suggestion. It's easy to dismiss any suggestion. Suggest something where a minimum of work is needed by the dev's to implement this imaginary new lute?

Staying with the canon pattern so far, maybe make the new lute (Viol? Lyre?) level accessed at level 10, and a cosmetic recipe version from Men of Bree at Artisan level (Lyre?), or Master level (Viol?)using the existing Viol recipe as an output option? It really should be Journeyman and Expert respectively IMO.

Always thought it weird that to grind for Men of Bree rep, the woodworker recipes were so far out of range of the typical adventurer of level 18-25. Maybe this would fix it so the recipe levels in crafting matched what the adventuring toon level is? A similar situation is also inherent in the Mathom Society in the Shire with the cook rep recipe's.

*****

Have you noticed the snap-pop on Live has been drastically reduced lately? *gives evil eye to Turbine*...what did you do....?

[Swagman]

Have you noticed the snap-pop on Live has been drastically reduced lately? *gives evil eye to Turbine*...what did you do....?

Snap? Pop? You left out Crackle. Stop eating Rice Krispies while playing Lotro. There, problem solved. hehe

[robbie1435]

RIP Music System

2007-March 30, 2015

[Lolorndinfey]

*offers Robbie1435 a replacement large fresh bowl of white milk soaked corn flakes to replace the yellow liquid one he had this morning*



Cmon. You haven't even heard a single note yet!?

[robbie1435]

Cmon. You haven't even heard a single note yet!?

I guess I'm the only one here that prefers the old system over any changes they could make.

[Emere]

You are not alone Glorg....I know several who feel the same way.