Extra life 2014: Play Games, Heal Kids

[maartena]

That's nice but the donating ended months ago. The issue now has NOTHING AT ALL to do with charity, just a deadbeat employee of that charity. Why can't you people stop going on about charity when this is 100% about Sapience failing to deliver what he promised.

The original reason to donate was the charity, not the codes. Sure, Sapience has failed miserably in delivering the codes to us, but I'm not going to fret about it if they arrive tomorrow, next month, next year, or not at all. I donated for a good cause, and that is still the primary reason I did so. So just relax, have a good day, month, or year.... and maybe the codes will some day arrive in our email. Surely not worth getting fussed up about. It's not like you NEED the codes to play the game.

I prodded him by Twitter, if it is that important to you, I suggest you do the same.

[maartena]

I just reached out to Sapience about this. He has told me that they are sorting things out as fast as they can and that he will send out a notification tweet on his account as soon as everything is done and set to. I would appreciate in the meantime that folks refrain from personal attacks on him, each other or the charity, here on the forums.

Thank you

[Erebthoron]

Thx Frelorn that you keep us informed

[peachykins]

The original reason to donate was the charity, not the codes. Sure, Sapience has failed miserably in delivering the codes to us, but I'm not going to fret about it if they arrive tomorrow, next month, next year, or not at all. I donated for a good cause, and that is still the primary reason I did so. So just relax, have a good day, month, or year.... and maybe the codes will some day arrive in our email. Surely not worth getting fussed up about. It's not like you NEED the codes to play the game.

I prodded him by Twitter, if it is that important to you, I suggest you do the same.

You have missed the principle of the matter.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

The original reason to donate was the charity, not the codes. Sure, Sapience has failed miserably in delivering the codes to us, but I'm not going to fret about it if they arrive tomorrow, next month, next year, or not at all. I donated for a good cause, and that is still the primary reason I did so. So just relax, have a good day, month, or year.... and maybe the codes will some day arrive in our email. Surely not worth getting fussed up about. It's not like you NEED the codes to play the game.

I prodded him by Twitter, if it is that important to you, I suggest you do the same.

Let me be the second one to say you've missed the principle of the matter. Why can't people like you let go of the charity aspect of this? IT'S NOT ABOUT CHARITY, it's about someone flaking on what they promised.

And frankly why can't Sapience himself reply here. I appreciate that the current blue names are contacting him for us, but why should they? Sure he left Turbine but he's not banned from the forums, right? I guess he just doesn't care about following through for us.

[Frisco]

The original reason to donate was the charity, not the codes. Sure, Sapience has failed miserably in delivering the codes to us, but I'm not going to fret about it if they arrive tomorrow, next month, next year, or not at all. I donated for a good cause, and that is still the primary reason I did so. So just relax, have a good day, month, or year.... and maybe the codes will some day arrive in our email. Surely not worth getting fussed up about. It's not like you NEED the codes to play the game.

I prodded him by Twitter, if it is that important to you, I suggest you do the same.

If it helps you understand our position, try and think of this less like a "charity" and more like a "fundraiser".

If you went to a church bake sale and paid money for a pie, and then they didn't give you the pie, you may be understandably irritated. Or if you paid for a table at a black-tie gala and they didn't actually hold the gala.

[Moochi]

I just reached out to Sapience about this. He has told me that they are sorting things out as fast as they can and that he will send out a notification tweet on his account as soon as everything is done and set to go. I would appreciate in the meantime that folks refrain from personal attacks on him, each other or the charity, here on the forums.

Andy, we appreciate you contacting him on our behalf. Thank you.

In regards to his reply, it reads to me as "I'll tell someone something sometime. Sometime later. Can't be bothered to give an account of things at this time." His support of the charity is a good thing, especially when it leads to people donating who otherwise would not. His lack of communication through all this, no explanations of why he keeps missing deadlines since he returned to town, and no explanation of what he's doing now to overcome those obstacles: Atrocious. But a guy doing a good thing horribly is still doing a good thing.

Since he can't/won't communicate with us, please forward a request when you next speak to him. I ask that he retire his use of "soon". Thank you.

[sashak]

goodness, some folks here may be best served if they could learn to either relax, let go, cut bait

the amount of bile and venom seems really disproportionate to the anticipated reward codes

i mean some of you clearly want to see this mans head on a platter...for what? a few rewards?

but honestly, why the rants and ongoing rampage, such a turn off

is it worth the lashing hes getting from some of you?

im inclined to believe the goods will be delivered at some point, if not, so be it, not a huge loss

sure hes dropped the ball, sure the delay is ridiculous, so what? at this point sensible/mature ppl would either shrug it off or make different choices in the future

why some would invest so much negativity into the issue is beyond my ability to grasp

if one day he makes good on it cool, if not, whatever

idk the guy but jeez some of you have him pegged as an evil overlord more despised than an agent of sauron

a couple of proverbs that come to mind...no good deed goes unpunished...the road to hell is oft paved with good intentions...definitely illustrated in this thread

[ShireDweller]

<lots of ranty stuff deleted>

a couple of proverbs that come to mind...no good deed goes unpunished...the road to hell is oft paved with good intentions...definitely illustrated in this thread

Yes, donating money is a good deed, isn't it?

And I agree, using game-related items as a way to encourage giving to a children's hospital is a good intention.

[Grimsin'sRiders]

hmm... Let's see:

OP no longer works for Turbine & has not responded to this thread in MONTHS....check.
Active Blue name gives reprimand/warning for personal attacks & thread derailment......check.
Ranting/Raving & derailment continues.....check.



I wonder how much longer this will go before it gets locked...

[sashak]

ranty indeed :P

just got a good laugh at myself once i read that reply :P

[gerbilsrcute]

Thanks for the info Frelorn.

[Snowlock]

goodness, some folks here may be best served if they could learn to either relax, let go, cut bait, or maybe even perhaps grow up

They are lucky they have one such as you to stand in judgement over them.

the amount of bile and venom spewing seems really disproportionate to the anticipated reward codes

Oh? I thought it was about delivering on ones commitments. You realize it was a big enough of a concern for turbine that they had to go check on one of their former employees to make sure he is going to do as he says. I'm surprised no one is wondering if their money got to extra life yet. If he isn't honoring the agreement of one transaction, that he will deliver the codes, wouldn't it be reasonable to wonder if the other agreement, that the money got to children, was honored as well? Anyone wonder how extra life feels about this? If their representative can't honor their commitments why are we assuming the charity can? Maybe their payouts are "soon" too.

[Northwoods]

Sauron himself couldn't have concocted a more insidious scheme: encourage charity in order to lay bare avarice & wrath.

[Ranatuor_Erutron]

I know there is anger right now but I think anyone who feels a need to post angry, maybe just step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. Angry posts aren't helping atm. I'm surprised and concerned about what is happening, and I am like the rest of you - a little communication goes a long way, it's being considerate. So huge kudos to Frelorn for trying to help out here, that is appreciated bud!

To those saying about charity - yes, it was a good cause. It is also a US one, I live in the UK, so there are many local causes I can support and usually do. In this instance, I wanted to support the Turbine team and also the incentives were something I am into, the pets/cosmetics - let's not misunderstand the thing here - if it were not for the incentives and the helping the Turbine people, my charity money spent here would have gone to UK charities, something closer to home. And incentives asked you to spend a certain amount to get something. So yes, the big issue is Rick (Sapience) now delivering on this - it's not an added bonus, it's an agreement, we spent $25, we get the items.

I wish he would just communicate more - the night of 30th he should have used his usual method (twitter) to let us know it wasn't going to be the 30th. It would be better if he gave us a date which works for him and us and it is actually correct. No idea why he needed to do his 10 days more, twice, with no real explanation. Rick, if you read this, please, please please - sort out your communications, be open with people. It's the most important skill imho and so many people are let down by not being attentive to how they are with others. Let's see.

Again, this is part of a gift to someone, hence why I am trying to be patient. Fingers crossed it can be sorted soon

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Anyone wonder how extra life feels about this? If their representative can't honor their commitments why are we assuming the charity can?

I tried to contact Extra Life multiple times through their website and never once received a reply back about this issue. I can only assume that they don't care about their employee lying and not making good on commitments. I would not give Extra Life a single penny after this and I encourage everyone else to find a more responsive and trustworthy charity to give your money to, regardless of the carrot Sapience dangles in front of us.

[Arnenna]

I just reached out to Sapience about this. He has told me that they are sorting things out as fast as they can and that he will send out a notification tweet on his account as soon as everything is done and set to go. I would appreciate in the meantime that folks refrain from personal attacks on him, each other or the charity, here on the forums.

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you stepped in to put the attacks to rest.

I've remained silent in here, because of the nature of the postings (which are totally shameful). I'm sure Rick is on it and there are plenty of factors people here are unaware of. Maybe he is waiting on some action by his email provider and it''s out of his control - could be anything. I've worked in busy office environments sending out 1000's of email per day, things go wrong, some are not easy to put right straight away. What people need is a bloody good dose of patience. I'm not sure what they think is happening . . . but I seriously doubt Rick has any use for 1600 batches of code and has no intention of holding onto them. Judging by this thread, I'm betting he can't wait to get shot of them to be honest.

The attacks on the charity are just the worst. Charity is charity in my book, and whether a charity actually gets 5% or 100% it irrelevant. It's better than nothing at all.

I've actually gone off the idea of my codes, all I will remember when I mount one of the steeds is this forum thread. It was supposed to make me see a child smiling

[Leixy]

I've remained silent in here, because of the nature of the postings (which are totally shameful). I'm sure Rick is on it and there are plenty of factors people here are unaware of. Maybe he is waiting on some action by his email provider and it''s out of his control - could be anything.

Maybe you have forgotten, but "Soon" has had over 12 Months to prepare for sending out a simple e-mail batch. His campaign ended in December, four months ago, he promised to send out in February, 2 months ago, and here we are today, and you're still being an apologist.

[peachykins]

Maybe you have forgotten, but "Soon" has had over 12 Months to prepare for sending out a simple e-mail batch. His campaign ended in December, four months ago, he promised to send out in February, 2 months ago, and here we are today, and you're still being an apologist.

Not to mention wasn't he suppose to send them yesterday? Here he was playing a video game last night.

That is the thing, if your gonna give incentives for a charity you make damn sure you get them out in a timely fashion & not make people wait for months to get there stuff. Just because this was for a good cause doesn't give Sapience a pass. He has done this now for 3 years & every year it's amazing how so many things come up & it gets delayed after delay.

[Demelza]

Firstly, many thanks to Frelorn for contacting Sapience on our behalf. Many of us have been contacting him, via every available social networking method, for weeks now, and have not received any kind of satisfactory reply. It is of course true that Turbine's reputation is being damaged by this entire fiasco; but even so, Frelorn appears to be trying to help us out here - and Sapience obviously provides more information, and more quickly, to his ex-employer than he does to us players.

I am not going to speculate as to Sapience's character, nor yet as to why he has still not sent out the codes. I have no idea. I only know that Frelorn got a reply where I have failed - and many thanks to him for that!

I've actually gone off the idea of my codes, all I will remember when I mount one of the steeds is this forum thread. It was supposed to make me see a child smiling

OK, enough of this to-and-fro debate as to whether "incentivised" giving (i.e. donating to charity partly or wholly in return for specified rewards) is "less noble" than so-called "pure" giving (i.e. donating without any reward being on offer).

This is a very basic moral question which anyone who has studied philosophy (and yes, I have, in depth) will meet very early in their studies: the question as to whether altruism (i.e. doing good acts in the expectation of no apparent reward) actually even exists. There are a very few exceptions, but almost all major philosophers, from the ancients to modern day, agree that there simply is no such thing as altruism - and the above quote perfectly illustrates this argument. The happiness gained from imagining a child's smile *IS* a reward; therefore the act of giving was, in fact, done with the expectation of *some* kind of personal reward - just not a tangible one like the in-game cosmetic items. OK, you may not have donated to Extra Life in order to receive the promotional items; indeed, you may not even have joined Sapience's Team Turbine at all, and may have donated on your own behalf, but still: if you gain *any* kind of personal satisfaction whatsoever from the act of donating to charity, you *have* received a reward (albeit an intangible, emotional one), and you have therefore *not* demonstrated altruism. You are not morally superior to those here who *did* donate in the expectation of receiving promised tangible rewards.

In order to *genuinely* act altruistically, one would have to gain no benefit whatsoever - including any kind of pride or satisfaction - from the so-called altruistic act. Even in the case of martyrs who give up their lives for the sake of other people, or to promote a good cause, die in the knowledge that they have benefited Mankind in some way (or, in the case of religious martyrdom, that they have saved their own souls); they thus gain personal satisfaction of some kind, which of course renders their apparent altruism null and void.

Don't just take my word for it. Please do check any major work of philosophy and you'll find that this argument is long dead and buried: true altruism (not to be confused with doing general "good deeds"!) does not exist.

And in the meantime, please could we have fewer of the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, "I did it all for the kids" posts? Personally, and like another person in this thread, I live in the UK and I normally support charities in my own country. I spent the same amount on charity giving last year as I would normally do; the difference is that $25 of it went to a charity that doesn't especially interest me, in a foreign country - and yes, that was because I wanted the in-game incentives. I was pleased that buying the incentives (which, let's face it, is what we all knew we were doing) also helped sick children, but there are plenty of just as worthy causes in my own country I could have donated to, and I certainly hope that, after the next unspecified period of delay, I will actually receive what I was promised - i.e. the in-game incentives.

Best,
Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[maartena]

I tried to contact Extra Life multiple times through their website and never once received a reply back about this issue. I can only assume that they don't care about their employee lying and not making good on commitments. I would not give Extra Life a single penny after this and I encourage everyone else to find a more responsive and trustworthy charity to give your money to, regardless of the carrot Sapience dangles in front of us.

You have to realize that this has nothing to do with Extra Life. Sapience worked at Turbine when he setup the donation page, and BECAUSE he worked at Turbine, he could arrange the incentive codes. There are hundreds upon hundreds of donation pages up on Extra Life, and many of them have other types of incentives, because the person that setup the page is affiliated with some other company that may be able to give up some incentives. There's people offering up artwork at DevianArt if someone donates more then a certain amount, pages offering music tracks on iTunes with donations, etc, etc.....

These incentives have nothing to do with Extra Life, and to be disgruntled at them for Sapience not following through is inexcusable. They really have nothing to do with it and are just the organization that gets the money raised to the right places. You are being angry at the wrong people. If a McDonalds restaurant owner says "you get a free Big Mac if you donate $10 to the Red Cross", and he then doesn't give the Big Mac, should you really be mad at the Red Cross? Nope. It just so happens that many months after the fund page was setup, Sapience decided to change jobs and work for Extra Life. Does that make it Extra Life's responsibility to take on the promises he made before he joined, and with assets of the previous company he worked for? I think not.

Look, I get you are all pissed off for not getting the codes. But at the end of the day.... they are just game codes for some silly little horses and silly little pets. Nice to have, but certainly not a deal breaker (for me) to donate to a good cause. If the codes arrive, fine. If they don't, then I know that a future endeavor done by Sapience might not yield the same results because the incentives aren't real. But to blame the actual charity for the failings of Sapience is beyond stupid. They are still the good cause where your money went, and your money WILL help children in need. And at least you can walk away from all of this knowing you may have made a difference in a child's life. Whether Sapience follows through with his promises or not really doesn't matter in the long run. Disappointing, yes. But something to get angry about, and blame the charity he did this all for? No.

[sashak]

I'm surprised no one is wondering if their money got to extra life yet.

the donation interface appears to be setup by the organization not by the individual

[Snowlock]

the donation interface appears to be setup by the organization not by the individual

Of course. But if the organization will be fronted by that sort of individual, it's fair to wonder if it's because he's representative of the culture there.

[sashak]

Of course. But if the organization will be fronted by that sort of individual, it's fair to wonder if it's because he's representative of the culture there.

i humbly disagree, and find that statement inflammatory, that seems a reaching conclusion to demean the whole organization because of an individual you have a gripe with



id be rather pleased to hear the time and effort youve spent in this thread equally matched or exceeded in some other positive endeavor as well, youd surely have great success with your ability to focus on matters important to u

[Almagnus1]

You gotta keep in mind that there are **A LOT** of us that still have baggage with the prior community manager, how he did his job, and our perception of how he did his job.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, some people are **VERY** mad about the state of the forums prior to Frelorn getting here, and this thread just shows that this issue is basically a hammer wailing on a raw nerve.

Hopefully we'll move past this angst eventually, but I wouldn't let the saltiness get to you while that happens.