Extra life 2014: Play Games, Heal Kids

[Erebthoron]

There is some difference for some of us: without the incentive I could have made a donation to some organization in my country (plus cut 25% of the amount from my tax). I would know or even see what is done with my money. So the experiance for me personal would have been a total different.

[Herwegur]

This is a very basic moral question which anyone who has studied philosophy (and yes, I have, in depth) will meet very early in their studies: the question as to whether altruism (i.e. doing good acts in the expectation of no apparent reward) actually even exists. There are a very few exceptions, but almost all major philosophers, from the ancients to modern day, agree that there simply is no such thing as altruism - and the above quote perfectly illustrates this argument. The happiness gained from imagining a child's smile *IS* a reward; therefore the act of giving was, in fact, done with the expectation of *some* kind of personal reward - just not a tangible one like the in-game cosmetic items. OK, you may not have donated to Extra Life in order to receive the promotional items; indeed, you may not even have joined Sapience's Team Turbine at all, and may have donated on your own behalf, but still: if you gain *any* kind of personal satisfaction whatsoever from the act of donating to charity, you *have* received a reward (albeit an intangible, non-material one), and you have therefore *not* demonstrated altruism. You are not morally superior to those here who *did* donate in the expectation of receiving promised tangible rewards.

If you have studied philosophy (let alone in depth), you would have developed a sensitivity and a critical apparatus for reading each individual author in the context of his own historical period and intellectual currents of his generation, rather than lumping them together in oversimplified reductionist rhetoric that exposes your desire for prestige and authority at the expense of a humble love of the subject and respect for its complexities.

In order to *genuinely* act altruistically, one would have to gain no benefit whatsoever - including any kind of emotional satisfaction - from the so-called altruistic act. Even in the case of martyrs who give up their lives for the sake of other people, or to promote a good cause, die in the knowledge that they have benefited Mankind in some way (or, in the case of religious martyrdom, that they have saved their own souls); they thus gain personal satisfaction of some kind, which of course renders their apparent altruism null and void.

Don't just take my word for it. Please do check any major work of philosophy and you'll find that this argument is long dead and buried: true altruism (not to be confused with doing general "good deeds"!) does not exist.

And here I thought the aim of philosophy - as discourse and as academic discipline - is to stimulate discussion and pursue the development of critical thinking, not to bury arguments. But what do I know, I clearly lack the impressive forum authority to declare a subject of a millennium's worth of debate to be long dead and buried. Let alone pronounce a profound and loaded concept as nonexistent with such enviable certainty. If you really did study philosophy in an organized setting (which does not include wikipedia and online mail-order degrees), and by study I mean engaging the texts critically with an open mind, not passively reading and absorbing the instructor's own dogmatic baggage that is being spoonfed.... oh, nevermind. I lament the quality of education nowadays, and shudder that some emerge from its ranks with no more sensitive appreciation for the subject's intellectual complexion than the simplified one-dimensional outline that passes for knowledge. Everyone seems to be so fond of knowledge and knowing that they're forgetting the love of learning and discovering.

And in the meantime, please could we have fewer of the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, "I did it all for the kids" posts?

Was the underlying goal of that entire philosophy post to deconstruct altruism, declare it dead and buried, and discredit certain posters' claim that they did not care about the rewards? Are you sure you studied philosophy?...

[sashak]

almagnus1, good post, shed light and well said

[Arnenna]

Firstly, many thanks to Frelorn for contacting Sapience on our behalf. Many of us have been contacting him, via every available social networking method, for weeks now, and have not received any kind of satisfactory reply. It is of course true that Turbine's reputation is being damaged by this entire fiasco; but even so, Frelorn appears to be trying to help us out here - and Sapience obviously provides more information, and more quickly, to his ex-employer than he does to us players.

I am not going to speculate as to Sapience's character, nor yet as to why he has still not sent out the codes. I have no idea. I only know that Frelorn got a reply where I have failed - and many thanks to him for that!

OK, enough of this to-and-fro debate as to whether "incentivised" giving (i.e. donating to charity partly or wholly in return for specified rewards) is "less noble" than so-called "pure" giving (i.e. donating without any reward being on offer).

. . . .

Best,
Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

......

followed by wall of text aimed at me for my "one" post in here (that obviously hit a nerve).

I take no morale highground, I make no reference whatsoever to why anyone should or should not donate in my post. I make no reference to incentives, none to morales about donation reasoning. My references are to some posts in this thread, which, have for me, completely and utterly tarnished the whole thing. The codes, if and when they come, will not hold anywhere near the sweet taste they should have done after reading this thread. That is my opinion, you are of course entitled to your own.

Now, if anyone is sitting on a morale high horse in here, its you. Read posts a bit more carefully before charging in with lengthy, meaningless lectures directed incorrectly at someone who really doesn't give a damn what you think about her.

This thread has one or two reasonably annoyed posts, and some constructive posts, but it has many many trash posts which are nothing short of flaming, attacking and downright shameful. That's a fact - Get over it.

[Arnenna]

Maybe you have forgotten, but "Soon" has had over 12 Months to prepare for sending out a simple e-mail batch. His campaign ended in December, four months ago, he promised to send out in February, 2 months ago, and here we are today, and you're still being an apologist.

I make no apologies for Rick - I'm sure he is big and bold enough to make his own. Pointing out flaming, shameful posts in a forum thread - Yes, I'm doing that. Don't like that? Tough. Some of them are so bad, I can't even bring myself to quote them. Tarnished comes to mind.

[Arnenna]

If you have studied philosophy (let alone in depth), you would have developed a sensitivity and a critical apparatus for reading each individual author in the context of his own historical period and intellectual currents of his generation, rather than lumping them together in oversimplified reductionist rhetoric that exposes your desire for prestige and authority at the expense of a humble love of the subject and respect for its complexities.



And here I thought the aim of philosophy - as discourse and as academic discipline - is to stimulate discussion and pursue the development of critical thinking, not to bury arguments. But what do I know, I clearly lack the impressive forum authority to declare a subject of a millennium's worth of debate to be long dead and buried. Let alone pronounce a profound and loaded concept as nonexistent with such enviable certainty. If you really did study philosophy in an organized setting (which does not include wikipedia and online mail-order degrees), and by study I mean engaging the texts critically with an open mind, not passively reading and absorbing the instructor's own dogmatic baggage that is being spoonfed.... oh, nevermind. I lament the quality of education nowadays, and shudder that some emerge from its ranks with no more sensitive appreciation for the subject's intellectual complexion than the simplified one-dimensional outline that passes for knowledge. Everyone seems to be so fond of knowledge and knowing that they're forgetting the love of learning and discovering.



Was the underlying goal of that entire philosophy post to deconstruct altruism, declare it dead and buried, and discredit certain posters' claim that they did not care about the rewards? Are you sure you studied philosophy?...

Possibly but they sure didn't study reading. My post was nothing to do with incentives, it was about how "this thread and some posts within it", have sullied the rewards, tarnished them, and made me feel quite sick about them.

[ShireDweller]

Possibly but they sure didn't study reading. My post was nothing to do with incentives, it was about how "this thread and some posts within it", have sullied the rewards, tarnished them, and made me feel quite sick about them.

Lots of people write posts and articles that claim that video games have ruined society and that those who play them are unwashed, lonely losers who lack social skills and prefer fantasy worlds to the real world.

By your logic, those unkind words about a pastime you enjoy, (playing LOTRO) should make you feel quite sick too. Do they? If they don't, why not? And if not, why do those opinions here that differ from yours affect you so badly?

I'm not being snarky, I'm sincerely curious how someone else's thoughts about these donation rewards would make you feel like they are "tarnished" and that you don't want to use them in game.

[Grimsin'sRiders]

For all you math quiz specialists out there:

If a train leaves Boston for a good cause at an average speed of $5-$25 an email, over a distance of 1600+ emails, & is scheduled to arrive early Feb, but is supposedly delayed due to mechanical reasons until the 30th of the next month, & yet is still somehow overdue on the end of the 31st without hearing even a tweet from the actual conductor about the what in the Gandalf is going on...

A - How many hecklers will it take to derail the thread into actual lockage, &

B - How long before Sapience realizes the number of passengers that can contact him, physically. lol

[Arnenna]

Lots of people write posts and articles that claim that video games have ruined society and that those who play them are unwashed, lonely losers who lack social skills and prefer fantasy worlds to the real world.

By your logic, those unkind words about a pastime you enjoy, (playing LOTRO) should make you feel quite sick too. Do they? If they don't, why not? And if not, why do those opinions here that differ from yours affect you so badly?

I'm not being snarky, I'm sincerely curious how someone else's thoughts about these donation rewards would make you feel like they are "tarnished" and that you don't want to use them in game.

This thread has so much poisonous flaming it's just sullied them (for me). If you genuinely are interested in knowing why, then I will tell you why. Please accept my apologies in advance for the lenght of the post.

Maybe it's just that I know quite a bit about charity work - especially that which involves travelling for long periods, and having to rely on liaison with others, limited resources, and sometimes unreliable services. That makes me think (and it's just my own view), that all may not be as simple and dry cut as some folk make out in here. I can understand the anger from some (although I'm not angry), I can understand the disappointment too. I can to a degree even understand why some folk are pointing a sharp stick at Sapience.

What I don't get, in any shape or form, is why people are actively putting down a charity organisation, for something beyond their control. Extralife is not just a LOTRO thing, it's all over the place, with people raising money from a lot of different avenues. I'm sure they have a lot more important things to do than answer emails about something they have nothing to do with. Then there is all nasty insinuations flying about how the money may not actually get to the charity, and then further to the children. That, in my opinion is just unacceptable behaviour, and touching on libelous. Turbine would be wise to monitor it very closely for hosting it.

I really don't mind or care if anyone donated for the rewards - that is their prerogative. They donated, that's all that matters. And as they were promised something, yes, I do believe they should get it. I really don't disbelieve that there are some people that donated regardless of rewards either. I donate to quite a few causes, money and time (and on occasion, blood, sweat and tears), and have done for a very long time. Incentives or not, makes no difference to me.

Charity is something I hold very close to me heart. 80% of the time, I donate to animal charity, with the other 20% going to children. Extralife appealed to me, because of what it does. It helps dying children and their families to get that little bit of extra from the life that is left. How good is that? That is awesome. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to be in a position like that, I'm glad I don't have to, and hope I never have to. The fact every penny counts towards helping, is a big thing for me.

Ok, so there was a little incentive involved - some codes. I would have donated regardless as I saw it on the forums here, but the incentives were a nice bonus for many I am sure. I had visions of mounting a steed in game at some point and thinking to myself, I wonder which child I may have helped smile. Not anymore though, now all I will think of is how some idiot decided that - that child (or other children like it), should go without, because he has a grudge over a virtual pony and a snow bear. His venomous words have been spoken and cannot be unspoken, the message - Do not donate to this scam organisation (which is what he has implied) is out there. How many children will not smile next year because of it? Will he sleep? He will as long as he gets his pony and bear I'm sure. Will I sleep? No I probably won't, because I will be wondering how many children maybe won't smile next year because of a pony or bear.

I don't care if Sapience had promised me the world wrapped in gold leaf. If he didn't deliver, I wouldn't declare war on the children and discourage people from giving to them again because of it.

As for the question do I feel the same when people take a pop at LOTRO. no, I don't. LOTRO is a game, a game I love yes, but just a game. It is not a dying child.

[frost702]

ITT: people still defending Sapience

[Arnenna]

ITT: people still defending Sapience

No, not really. Just taking the stance that I don't know either way what the hold up is and until someone can stand up and say categorically, without any doubt at all and provide proof that it's just ignorance and deliberate on his part, then I will pass no judgment on him. Thank you.

I am however, defending the charity that people have decided to slam in their desperation to get some new toys.

[Almagnus1]

This thread has so much poisonous flaming it's just sullied them (for me). If you genuinely are interested in knowing why, then I will tell you why. Please accept my apologies in advance for the lenght of the post.

Maybe it's just that I know quite a bit about charity work - especially that which involves travelling for long periods, and having to rely on liaison with others, limited resources, and sometimes unreliable services. That makes me think (and it's just my own view), that all may not be as simple and dry cut as some folk make out in here. I can understand the anger from some (although I'm not angry), I can understand the disappointment too. I can to a degree even understand why some folk are pointing a sharp stick at Sapience.

What I don't get, in any shape or form, is why people are actively putting down a charity organisation, for something beyond their control. Extralife is not just a LOTRO thing, it's all over the place, with people raising money from a lot of different avenues. I'm sure they have a lot more important things to do than answer emails about something they have nothing to do with. Then there is all nasty insinuations flying about how the money may not actually get to the charity, and then further to the children. That, in my opinion is just unacceptable behaviour, and touching on libelous. Turbine would be wise to monitor it very closely for hosting it.

I really don't mind or care if anyone donated for the rewards - that is their prerogative. They donated, that's all that matters. And as they were promised something, yes, I do believe they should get it. I really don't disbelieve that there are some people that donated regardless of rewards either. I donate to quite a few causes, money and time (and on occasion, blood, sweat and tears), and have done for a very long time. Incentives or not, makes no difference to me.

Charity is something I hold very close to me heart. 80% of the time, I donate to animal charity, with the other 20% going to children. Extralife appealed to me, because of what it does. It helps dying children and their families to get that little bit of extra from the life that is left. How good is that? That is awesome. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to be in a position like that, I'm glad I don't have to, and hope I never have to. The fact every penny counts towards helping, is a big thing for me.

Ok, so there was a little incentive involved - some codes. I would have donated regardless as I saw it on the forums here, but the incentives were a nice bonus for many I am sure. I had visions of mounting a steed in game at some point and thinking to myself, I wonder which child I may have helped smile. Not anymore though, now all I will think of is how some idiot decided that - that child (or other children like it), should go without, because he has a grudge over a virtual pony and a snow bear. His venomous words have been spoken and cannot be unspoken, the message - Do not donate to this scam organisation (which is what he has implied) is out there. How many children will not smile next year because of it? Will he sleep? He will as long as he gets his pony and bear I'm sure. Will I sleep? No I probably won't, because I will be wondering how many children maybe won't smile next year because of a pony or bear.

I don't care if Sapience had promised me the world wrapped in gold leaf. If he didn't deliver, I wouldn't declare war on the children and discourage people from giving to them again because of it.

As for the question do I feel the same when people take a pop at LOTRO. no, I don't. LOTRO is a game, a game I love yes, but just a game. It is not a dying child.

Don't take this thread personally, which it sounds like you kinda are.

This community was very, very strong at one point, but time has not been kind to this place. I know it's transference, and many of these responding are mad that they have had to wait four months to get their stuff because... Sapience.

Too many see the former CM, and they don't get that the charity is actually really good, and it's doing good things. They just want their stuff because they were never in it for altruistic reasons. They just want their stuff, and there is nothing else they can do to vent, as Sapience is incommunicado.

[Demelza]

Are you sure you studied philosophy?...

Yes. I'm also 46 years old, so let's not assume anything about modern standards of education, shall we? Oh, and as for whom I learned from: I annoyed my A-Level Philosophy teacher so much (by having my own views) that I abandoned formal classes after two weeks, took the reading list, read the listed books (and a lot more), wrote the required essays, sat the required exams, and proceeded to get the highest mark in the country for that exam in that year, out of c.20,000 other students also studying under my chosen Examinations Board - which, being the Oxford & Cambridge Board, was the most difficult Board I could have chosen.

I then sat the Oxbridge Entrance Examination and won a place to study for Joint Honours in Philosophy & Theology at Manchester College, University of Oxford... that well-known tenth-rate mail-order degree provider.

But of course, you know my educational history better than I do... right?

When I did my formal studies, there *was* no Internet. My Wikipedia was then, and is now, since I value accuracy above ease of access, the Encyclopaedia Britannica. But nobody who knows what that is would be on an Internet forum, hm?

And as for "me" stating that altruism does not exist: please do read what I said. It is not *my* self-invented view. It is that of most of the major philosophers whose works I have studied... both formally and, since then, informally, for years.

And if you expect me to go and get you photocopies of my qualifications, I'm afraid I'm not going to.

Also, my post was *not* aimed at any single person in this thread. There are many posts here attempting to paint those of us who *would* like to receive tangible rewards which we were promised as being somehow greedy, and not caring about sick children. To be honest, I *don't* personally care about "The Kids"... I don't know them at all, and trying to say that I personally grieve for them would be both dishonest and fatuous. Extra Life is one of many charities which fund medical assistance in the USA, which is a good cause, so at least I know that I have not actually wasted $25, but it's not at the top of my "good causes list", and, given a free choice, I would have preferred to donate the same amount of money to a charity I normally support, in my own country. I freely admit that the in-game incentives persuaded me to donate to a cause I had never heard of before and would not have chosen otherwise: this does not mean that I am greedy, morally lax or callous. I simply exchanged a charitable donation for (so I still hope) a set of in-game rewards.

In summary, I only posted at all because I resent being told - no matter by whom, nor how obliquely - that because I was influenced by receiving a tangible reward, my actions (and, by implication or extension, my moral decisions in general) are somehow less "noble" or worthy than those of another person doing the same thing in order to receive a *different* kind of reward - i.e. the emotional satisfaction which *they* enjoy as a result. Both rewards are just that: rewards.

That was what I was trying to say - no more, no less. If I have offended anyone with what I wrote, that is regrettable, but it was not intentional.

I'm not going to engage in any more discussion on this. I should not, with hindsight, even have posted what I did; this thread is already probably a mouse-click away from being locked due to derailment and arguing.

And so : once again, many thanks to Frelorn for providing us with some information which, although not what one would call concrete, is at least much better than we have been hearing up until now. I appreciate it very much.

And I would be very grateful indeed if anyone who does receive an email containing the in-game codes could let the rest of us here know: I have been online with the same email address for over 20 years, and I receive enormous amounts of spam as a result; I have no idea who the sender of the email will be, or what the subject line will state, so I would be delighted if any email recipients could let us all know. Thanks in advance.

Best,
Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[Arnenna]

Don't take this thread personally, which it sounds like you kinda are.

This community was very, very strong at one point, but time has not been kind to this place. I know it's transference, and many of these responding are mad that they have had to wait four months to get their stuff because... Sapience.

Too many see the former CM, and they don't get that the charity is actually really good, and it's doing good things. They just want their stuff because they were never in it for altruistic reasons. They just want their stuff, and there is nothing else they can do to vent, as Sapience is incommunicado.

Nope, I don't take it personally. This thread can't hurt me in any way. I'ts ruined how I will feel about the in game items when they arrive, but that doesn't bother anymore since I decided to speak up in here. what bothers me is the damage people have done to a charity that doesn't deserve this. Venting at how annoyed they are at the wait, fair enough, venting at how they want more explanation - fair enough. Slamming the charity and suggesting they are even worthy of donations = taking something away from the children of next year by people who may be led down a completely imagined path based on angst and grudges, and venomous words - not on.

I do hope the majority of people who have read this thread will have the good sense to do their own research on the charity and not be influenced by hate posts in the future when they think of donating.

Enough from me anyway. I've stayed too long in here already.

[Snowlock]

i humbly disagree, and find that statement inflammatory

You find it inflammatory that I feel an organisation's public representatives are representative of an organization?

[Wyatt]

Frelorn, can you confirm (as Turbine official representative) that Sapience received the codes from Turbine?

At the moment, i cannot understand the motives of Rick's behavior:

1. He promised to send the codes up to 2st Febraury.
Normal: He already received or expected to get the codes from Turbine by the date.

2. He cancelled the date because of his problems with e-mail.
Not normal:
a. He is enough smart to understand that sending 1600+ e-mails in the one transaction will block his account. He could to split mail into the chunks and start sending it using several e-mails. It's not a problem.
b. His provider banned his account. And what? He was banned in Google Mail too? He could create FREE account(s) and perform mailing.

3. He set the new "deadline" - first of the March. Soon after that he changed it to the middle of March. The reason: he is very busy travelling.
Not normal. I can believe that he didn't have a free time to send codes in his trips, but he had time to post travelling photos/reviews in Twitter/Facebook...

4. He returned to his home in the middle of March. Now he set the new "deadline" - 30th.
Not normal: Why? I have no idea why he delayed it again.

5. 1st April here: he keeps the silence in twitter but according to his Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/rick.heaton.505) he says about purchased musical instruments, he watches movies and videos. But there is no information
about our codes in Facebook.
Not normal: It seems he ignores us.

That's why i'm asking again: Turbine, did you send the codes to Rick? Because it looks like problem from your side! If Rick didn't received promised FREE codes from Turbine, that will explain everything: strange delays, strange explanations,
strange silence. He has expected to get the codes by Turbine up to 2nd Feb. But he's no longer Turbine's employee. May be Turbine/WB decided to not give away exclusive in-game items for free, because they can add it into the Lotro Store.
And Rick cannot complete his promise because he doesn't have the codes. And he also cannot blame his former company.

That's only my guess. Of course i can and hope to be wrong but i don't see any reason for Rick to keep the codes...

Anyways, now it's a reputation question. Turbine/WB should deliver codes if they want to have good reputation with their community. No matter that Rick left Turbine. His donation company was started at Turbine's forums under Turbine's name.
And the rewards are Turbine's in-game items. Please don't distance from Rick. It's your fault too. Now you have to help Rick fix the problem, because he is only a man, but Turbine/WB is a big company.

[Starstorm01]

None of this surprises me, the delays, excuses, not responding, poor communication, It's normal behaviour.

Good Luck to you guys and I hope turbine now steps in, this was an event ran by a then current staff member of turbine, which was supported by turbine.

There is nothing wrong in expecting the incentives as that's what was offered if u donated, alot of money was collected during the event, so well done to you all.

Its not the first year of running the event so everything should of been sent as planned, not two plus months later.

[Laerien]

This from a previous Extra Life event

"I want to apologize for this taking so incredibly long to reach you and thank you for your patience while waiting. The response to the fundraiser was so far above my expectations that I couldn’t have imagined I’d be trying to send more than 700 people emails by hang. Each email having 4 unique codes. It’s overwhelming. Thankfully our fantastic Victorie has stepped in to help and use some of her magic to get the final round of emails out in one massive batch."

How many time you think it takes to build a single email with a unique code (probably several codes and I don't think that this has been done automatically)? 30 sec, 1 minute, 2 minutes? now do the math and see how many days it takes. And the man probably had to do it twice. Not because someone has spare time to post on facebook or twitter that means he has been doing nothing.

It is not about defending Sapience or justifying that he didn't deliver as scheduled, yes he failed miserably... you win!, tell it to your grandchildren... Now please use the common sense and wear the man's shoes for a minute.

Btw, happy April fool's.

[Leixy]

Btw, happy April fool's.

Not sure if your post is real, or fake, but its pretty easy to batch process a list of codes like this in excel, or a decent mail system.

Separate the codes by amount donated, match codes for each donation amount to appropriately identified e-mail addresses. Or, all email addresses that donated $5 get xxxx grouped item codes of category A of codes... All $25 and over get matches to xxx grouped codes of category B of codes. etc...

create a unique identifier for all the codes for a given e-mail, then batch that field into e-mail via a spreadsheet, or database in either a email system, or excel, or other...

Lots of ways to do it where it doesn't require manual entry.

April Fools indeed.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

What an utterly bizarre thread this has turned into. Is no one surprised that sometimes people over-promise and under-deliver? Too many people here have developed a romanticised notion of the protagonist and what we're experiencing here is the shattering of that illusion.

When it comes to giving to charity, give because you want to help the end recipients money, not because you're getting some bit of tat in return.

Edit - I was doing mail-merge with email nearly 20 years ago - no it's not that hard. I also recall coding a shell script to batch send using sendmail in intervals of 100 so that the company's internet connection would not get flooded. There's always a work around to a problem if the will is there.

[Arnenna]

Not sure if your post is real, or fake, but its pretty easy to batch process a list of codes like this in excel, or a decent mail system.

Separate the codes by amount donated, match codes for each donation amount to appropriately identified e-mail addresses. Or, all email addresses that donated $5 get xxxx grouped item codes of category A of codes... All $25 and over get matches to xxx grouped codes of category B of codes. etc...

create a unique identifier for all the codes for a given e-mail, then batch that field into e-mail via a spreadsheet, or database in either a email system, or excel, or other...

Lots of ways to do it where it doesn't require manual entry.

April Fools indeed.

Are you serious?

You think the codes sent out are going to work that way? I think not. They will need to be unique - per person, or else anyone could use them over and over again, send to friends, or sell them.

On the most basic of donation levels - take 1600 x 5 dollars x 1 steed code = 1600 unique codes that need to be sent to 1600 different email addreses. Do the math on the rest of the incentives and donation amounts and the number gets a heap load bigger.

Not to mention, last time I checked, Excel, or email system, or other . . . will only work if all the data is firstly typed into them - yeah, that would be manually.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Are you serious?

You think the codes sent out are going to work that way? I think not. They will need to be unique - per person, or else anyone could use them over and over again, send to friends, or sell them.

On the most basic of donation levels - take 1600 x 5 dollars x 1 steed code = 1600 unique codes that need to be sent to 1600 different email addreses. Do the math on the rest of the incentives and donation amounts and the number gets a heap load bigger.

Not to mention, last time I checked, Excel, or email system, or other . . . will only work if all the data is firstly typed into them - yeah, that would be manually.

Then he should never have promised those incentives if he had any inkling that the volumes concerned would have gotten too great, though no doubt he was more than happy to receive the donations.

You seem to be rather keen on defending someone who basically issued a bribe in order to obtain monies (regardless of their end purpose) which went on to benefit him personally as it got him a new job and now it's one excuse after the other - first the snow, now the cardinality of the codes. What next? He's run out of loo paper or something?

edit - as for the codes one just imports them as a list into an excel column. Easy when you know how.

[Moochi]

If he didn't deliver, I wouldn't declare war on the children and discourage people from giving to them again because of it.

Hi Arnenna.
While you've said multiple things which I do not agree with, I would like to, if you will allow, at this time limit my comments to this bit which rankles.

#1 Some people in this thread have advocated skipping the goodies and extra life so that a great part of their donation reaches the hospital by donating directly to the hospital. I am among them.
#2 I don't recall anyone here saying anything along the lines of "declaring war on the children", other than yourself.

I ask that you please stop pretending that those who say Thing #1 are saying Thing #2. To the contrary, we are trying to promote an action that will result in the children receiving more aid, not less. In fact, I feel that you owe the lot of us an apology for accusing us of saying such a horrid thing.

[sashak]

it's fair to wonder if it's because he's representative of the culture there.

yup, i do find that inflammatory

[RicardoFurriel]

Nope, I don't take it personally. This thread can't hurt me in any way. I'ts ruined how I will feel about the in game items when they arrive, but that doesn't bother anymore since I decided to speak up in here. what bothers me is the damage people have done to a charity that doesn't deserve this.

We can start by saying that the charity did hurt themselves by hiring Sapience as a CM. It wouldn't take much to find out how much animosity towards him went on at his time as CM.

Yes, I feel sorry that the charity name is getting a bad rep. But how is that a player's fault? Ppl don't make stuff up just because (or not frequently I should say).

Fact is, the community was severely damaged by that guy. Soon it all you want, giggle and laugh all you want. Damage is done. Kudos to Frelorn for trying (and slowly succeeding).