15.2 Player music

[Emere]

However, I like to remain part of the solution when I can. I feel this can be fixed if the developers have the same level of engagement for the U16 beta as they did in U15.3.

The trouble is, nothing has been posted about anything musically in U16 beta from what Ive seen and I noticed no difference when I tested. We need to hear from the Devs and know whats changed so we can address those changes, if any have been made. It would also be nice, as already requested, that they say something here to update us.

[SchorschiSchrumpf]

The trouble is, nothing has been posted about anything musically in U16 beta from what Ive seen and I noticed no difference when I tested. We need to hear from the Devs and know whats changed so we can address those changes, if any have been made. It would also be nice, as already requested, that they say something here to update us.

Yes I totally agree, I would really like to have some kind of statement - the total lack of reactions to our posts here makes me wonder.

Taking into account how the majority of the changes was generated, which is for the most samples just a frequency filter, I feel a bit like we were taken for a ride (wasn't there the word -rerecorded- somewhere ?).

[Katiepie]

I have been most fortunate, to have been invited to listen to a number of bands these past few weeks. I have also been in intensive testing sessions within my own sphere of bands both within LMB, as well as Bugginses Bands. I have witnessed some songs which have either not included those portions of scales which have problems, or the issues have been crafted around in the file making process. I have also been party to arrangements where I was the only person to find fault with the end product. I too am waiting to hear something from the devs as to the next step. In absence of this I really just want the whole thing put back to how it was, warts and all. I am getting tired and a little jaded at this whole episode. I thank all involved for trying! It was well worth the attempt. But without notice of any improvements soon I will not be able to lend support to our new music system. A shame as this was not the opinion I had before u15.3.

[Lolorndinfey]

Hamster running laps in a spinning wheel?

@Lifimum. Nice work. That's a lot of work for Turbine to digest. Give them some time to go over it? Regarding the low band filter. There's probably some truth to it, but as in all things in life, there's probably a catch, and I don't believe its all old samples. Don't make me break out the analysis tools. I can hear the differences to believe it's not entirely the case it's old instrument samples. Three outcomes. You're right. Turbine gets caught red-handed. You're wrong. Your credibility just took a nose dive. Half and half. Both sides feel frustrated all their hard work is unappreciated and animosity increases. No winners here. Be cordial. Be nice. Use proof. Show data. Can't ignore hard info. Just another opinion to ignore? heh.

I'm sorry to report, I thought it was something on our end during testing this week prior to concerts.

Snap-pop is back.

I know it's server side, since we rehearsed 4 days in a row, and today it's back, and I've done nothing different on my end. I'm going to double check now on our end for the rest of the day for as long as my paitence can muster along with the band, but these are re-written songs designed to keep under the 3 note limit, and today the snap-pop has returned. So much for the reprive. How long was that? 6 days?

With this sudden development, and pending testing on our end to find any other causes, Harlequins is pulling all concerts from this day onwards until verified tested songs are playable in concert on live servers. Lay and I did a lot of work to make it three note/chord compatible, and now this develops. sigh. We also kept the concert playlist from last week and all of them now play with snap-pop.

Sorry folks. I gues it's something they're doing to prepare for U16? *sigh*....

Piper down!

[Emere]

This is very odd. Calanne was having trouble with the static sounds ect. I suggested turning all alt volumes down, focus loss behavior to disable sounds, and disable game sounds checked. The way I normally do it and have had success with so far is, I load my main. Then I load one alt and set the options as above. I then close my alt account and restart my launcher and launch all my alts so I don't have to set each one and they boot up with those settings. Calanne tried it and reported back that the trouble went away. I will check back with Calanne later when I am able to see if the problem has returned or not, using those settings. So far, I've not gone back to Bree to see if the trouble is worse there with all my alts up and running but with only part of them at the Bright Star show, I was having no trouble at all.

[Lolorndinfey]

Yeah. just to confirm. Was playing Monday, Wed. Thurs, and today. Only happened today at rehearsals prior to today's concert rotation. We agreed to pull the plug. It's a recent development. We're going to test some more later on. Just making the cancellation announcement rounds on each server.

[Emere]

Hmmm.....
I keep checking back to see if any new word from Blue Names. Its not very encouraging to not hear anything at all from them suddenly.

[Katiepie]

Thought I'd let folks know I too am checking back often. It has been suggested that we post in a more recent forum than this?? What think my fellow musickers?

[Vyvyanne]

Hi all,

We are very focused on getting update 16 completed and out the door. I do not have the resources available currently to do another focus pass on the music system but if you keep the feedback coming, submit bugs with the specific problems you are having, notes, instruments, etc we will get to them as we can. SpiritusLOTRO does an excellent job of laying out specifics for example.

Thank you,
Vyvyanne

[Emere]

Hi all,

We are very focused on getting update 16 completed and out the door. I do not have the resources available currently to do another focus pass on the music system but if you keep the feedback coming, submit bugs with the specific problems you are having, notes, instruments, etc we will get to them as we can. SpiritusLOTRO does an excellent job of laying out specifics for example.

Thank you,
Vyvyanne

I think the statement "get to them as we can" is the scariest thing I have heard in some time.

[PKCrichton]

I think the statement "get to them as we can" is the scariest thing I have heard in some time.

I would take the statement as simply meaning our resources are already fully tasked with U16 and once its out the door this will be on the list of things they figure the priority of for resources.

Could it mean they aren't fixed for a couple of months yes. We hope its not that long but it is a possiblity.

Could it mean that they are in a 16.1 update or a hotfix a couple weeks after u16 is live yes. This is the option we can best hope for.

[Northwoods]

I think the statement "get to them as we can" is the scariest thing I have heard in some time.

Vyv has given the Music System more love in her short tenure than we've seen in years. She's earned a little trust, methinks.

[Lolorndinfey]

Hindsight is 20/20, yes. Now it makes more sense. Why the urgency for release of U15.3. With the focus now off the music system with U16 and East Gondor and the new PvMP; priorities. Yes? Resources on a white board and timeline.

It's true there more done to the music system under Vyvyanne's tenure, but is some of it attributed to the previous Exec? Is it entirely her directives? Please take credit where it's due. No strings. I mean this in a good way. Let us know if it has been entirely your efforts?
How do you resolve the statement of it's "advanced far enough" vs what we got in U15.3?
Actual product vs history vs intentions. I just don't know how she could easily resolve or repair the damage done. Both in the actual system and credibility.
We played the test files sent in to Turbine during BR and after U15.3's release. They have the files that show the problem. Aged apple, promised golden apple. Raisins given us. it's really hard to resolve the pre-release statements, the actual release, the hidden serverside fix, and the taking away of such fix.

I still believe in her heart she intends to get to the system after U16 goes live. I even agree U16 and the new PvMP is a higher priority. But once again, this is a time sensitive matter. With each week's cancelled concerts, not only the bands, but the fans will come to expect there's less hope of a fix coming, and move on to other things. That's the biggest loss. the fans and audience of the music system.

I can only speak of our band's intentions; to spread the wealth of lore of what we have learned and are capable of using the music system. Which is why we've not sought any limelight nor high profile events. Like bards of old, we just want to play music we like and are capable of by visiting as many 'towns' (servers) and let people know who are willing to listen and like minded. I think it was a good dream. Unfortunately we are silenced now. Though well intentioned, it now seems it will be weeks or months rather than a priority to be fixed at present. I am sad, but it is what it is.

I think once calmed down. a full detailed bug report can be sent it. Despite the past, and no promises or expectations of when and how much of a fix can be done, our own conscience can be clear in the fact that we've documented as fully as possible the current state of affairs. At least 9 servers got a 1 hour concert under U15.3 before we were silenced. There's that silver lining, yes?

[Emere]

Vyv has given the Music System more love in her short tenure than we've seen in years. She's earned a little trust, methinks.

I agree completely. Many snugly bunny hugs to her for that too. But we still have no idea of any time frame for fixes. We still know nothing more than before.
Please understand where I am coming from on this. Music is really all I do in game. Pretty much all I have done for a very long time in game. What little role play I do is centered around the music community as well. When I skraid or raid, its with my fellow musicians. So for me, its pretty much a broken game now.
It is why I canceled my subscription. It doesn't make any sense to renew it with the hope that someday it will be fixed. Three months of vip here will buy you into the pre-alpha of SotA for petes sake. ((And for $10, I was able to buy a bunny pet!))

Though my band(s) have continued doing shows, its surely not the same. We (LBC) have had to cut our concert performances down to two a month as we struggle to fix songs enough that they are at least playable and for me, I've very little enjoyment with it since my entire library of songs was all but destroyed. Nothing sounds as good as it once did even after tweaking and fixing. Music sounds flat and lifeless. Instruments are more in tune now, but overall have more problems than we had before, more things broken, and it just doesn't sound nearly as good as it once did.

Last but not least, some of us did a ton of beta testing and said its not ready to go live. We were not looking for perfection by any means, but we all knew what kind of work it would take to fix our songs and had somewhat of an idea of how many wouldn't be fixable for the time being. It is not easy to get an entire band online for testing as much as is currently required just to continue on, providing you want to sound at least half good. It took our band two weeks just to get enough songs fixed well enough to do one show for an hour. With that in mind, we now are faced with the idea, if things get fixed little by little, then the work load for us is going to be huge if we wish to continue having shows. Each time something gets changed down the line, we will have to adjust everything we just adjusted, or start completely over. It would have been better to leave it in beta until things were fixed and the system working decently. I would have preferred starting over once as opposed to starting over each time a new hotfix or update comes out. All we can do now is be testers and bug reporters and quite honestly, Turbine isn't paying us enough for that.

[Thurallor]

it's really hard to resolve the pre-release statements, the actual release, the hidden serverside fix, and the taking away of such fix.

I don't think we have enough evidence to be sure this actually happened. It seems unlikely. In fact, I think it's more likely that the performance is marginal on your machine, and other variables (such as the number of musicians playing, people dancing, etc.) accounted for the fact that you sometimes saw the problem and sometimes didn't.

Although since the devs never provided release notes to us, we can't know for sure.

[PKCrichton]

I agree completely. Many snugly bunny hugs to her for that too. But we still have no idea of any time frame for fixes. We still know nothing more than before.
Please understand where I am coming from on this. Music is really all I do in game. Pretty much all I have done for a very long time in game. What little role play I do is centered around the music community as well. When I skraid or raid, its with my fellow musicians. So for me, its pretty much a broken game now.
It is why I canceled my subscription. It doesn't make any sense to renew it with the hope that someday it will be fixed. Three months of vip here will buy you into the pre-alpha of SotA for petes sake. ((And for $10, I was able to buy a bunny pet!))

Though my band(s) have continued doing shows, its surely not the same. We (LBC) have had to cut our concert performances down to two a month as we struggle to fix songs enough that they are at least playable and for me, I've very little enjoyment with it since my entire library of songs was all but destroyed. Nothing sounds as good as it once did even after tweaking and fixing. Music sounds flat and lifeless. Instruments are more in tune now, but overall have more problems than we had before, more things broken, and it just doesn't sound nearly as good as it once did.

Last but not least, some of us did a ton of beta testing and said its not ready to go live. We were not looking for perfection by any means, but we all knew what kind of work it would take to fix our songs and had somewhat of an idea of how many wouldn't be fixable for the time being. It is not easy to get an entire band online for testing as much as is currently required just to continue on, providing you want to sound at least half good. It took our band two weeks just to get enough songs fixed well enough to do one show for an hour. With that in mind, we now are faced with the idea, if things get fixed little by little, then the work load for us is going to be huge if we wish to continue having shows. Each time something gets changed down the line, we will have to adjust everything we just adjusted, or start completely over. It would have been better to leave it in beta until things were fixed and the system working decently. I would have preferred starting over once as opposed to starting over each time a new hotfix or update comes out. All we can do now is be testers and bug reporters and quite honestly, Turbine isn't paying us enough for that.

I haven't been using the music system myself lately but if it is really this badly broken then I have to say that the old system needs to be rolled back into LIVE with u16 until there is the time to get the system perfect.

[Katiepie]

We are very focused on getting update 16 completed and out the door. I do not have the resources available currently to do another focus pass on the music system but if you keep the feedback coming, submit bugs with the specific problems you are having, notes, instruments, etc we will get to them as we can. SpiritusLOTRO does an excellent job of laying out specifics for example.

I understand the focus is on game development at this present moment. Update 16 is very important to the LOTRO community.

I have key mapped my entire range and was about to make a note for note report when I noticed Lifi (SpiritusLOTRO) had beaten me to it with his excellent note for note post above. It seems redundant for me to just replicate this work but if Vivian tells me they need it in duplicate I am willing to do so.

I hope your loose plans of getting to these issues asap, mean we can have the worst issues resolved by Weatherstock... (July-ish).

These would include:
The twangy inconsistent Lute notes.
The breathy low notes on the flute.
Metallic clarinet notes.
Issues with Theobro range.
Short note on the Bagpipes issue.
The very strange directional sound issues.
The quality of the sound and blend of instruments needs looking at again. Often I have found the sound I hear reminds me of listening to music in a big echoy room or hall.


I would be thrilled to see some if not all these problems addressed for the better.

As it stands I know of two bands who totally love the new music system. A few who have stopped playing. But the majority have fewer concerts now and all are having issues trying to play music without being able to hear our arrangements outside of LOTRO. It is possible to create music with this system but it is problematic and no where near as much fun.

Good luck with the new update and please don't forget about us patiently waiting to have our issues resolved.

[Lolorndinfey]

I don't think we have enough evidence to be sure this actually happened. It seems unlikely. In fact, I think it's more likely that the performance is marginal on your machine, and other variables (such as the number of musicians playing, people dancing, etc.) accounted for the fact that you sometimes saw the problem and sometimes didn't.

Although since the devs never provided release notes to us, we can't know for sure.

We've been down this road before, Thuralior. Mar. 12-15. That's your guess of the reported snap-pop issue when I backed up a claim that snap-pop was there; my slow machine or connection. It wasn't the case. I can't stress enough why I reported this. Snap-pop was there Monday from U15.3 release and gone 4 days after release on a Friday hours before concert. No settings change on my end. Now back 11 days after U15.3 release. And once more, you suggest it's my slow machine. How many times are we going to do this? Opinions are fine. You also stated you don't launch multiple accounts, which so far is being reported by 3? other players either multi-boxing or band members.

I give up. Good news is that if we're both consistent, people can judge for themelves what we're saying and judge for themselves.

[siipperi]

I agree completely. Many snugly bunny hugs to her for that too. But we still have no idea of any time frame for fixes. We still know nothing more than before.
Please understand where I am coming from on this. Music is really all I do in game. Pretty much all I have done for a very long time in game. What little role play I do is centered around the music community as well. When I skraid or raid, its with my fellow musicians. So for me, its pretty much a broken game now.
It is why I canceled my subscription. It doesn't make any sense to renew it with the hope that someday it will be fixed. Three months of vip here will buy you into the pre-alpha of SotA for petes sake. ((And for $10, I was able to buy a bunny pet!))

Music system have gotten lot of love and will receive in future when they have more time but as it seems they think next update is more crucial to their future success so they want to focus on that (pushing it out asap and as polished as they can). Nothing wrong on focusing different things in the game, and lets be honest, music system is nowhere as broken as endgame been for last 2 years...

[Emere]

Music system have gotten lot of love and will receive in future when they have more time but as it seems they think next update is more crucial to their future success so they want to focus on that (pushing it out asap and as polished as they can). Nothing wrong on focusing different things in the game, and lets be honest, music system is nowhere as broken as endgame been for last 2 years...

I have been playing for almost 5 years now. In all of that time the only love we got aside from the support for Weatherstock, was the pibgorn. That thing is more insult than love and it is still broken. It wasn't until recently with all this new music system that we have seen any love or promises of love, for a very very long time. Unless I am wrong, the example before that was when they made the sync music command for us. That happened before I even knew Lotro existed.
Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to diminish end game play. I agree its lacking. But all said and done, its the role play community and music community that has always drawn the short straw. The only reasons I subscribed for a year was one, for the support against being griefed at shows and we rarely got any satisfaction from that, and two, was to give back to a game that I loved because of the music community, and the music we could make.

[Keli]

So, you /bug the lute and say it is at least 20% too loud. You get told it's working as intended (technically it is) and the ticket closed.

I appreciate the U16 effort but is it really a big thing to just lower the volume on the lute. Obviously some of the other fixes may take more time but, you know, you were warned it wasn't ready and yet here we are.

[SchorschiSchrumpf]

Music system have gotten lot of love and will receive in future when they have more time but as it seems they think next update is more crucial to their future success so they want to focus on that (pushing it out asap and as polished as they can). Nothing wrong on focusing different things in the game, and lets be honest, music system is nowhere as broken as endgame been for last 2 years...

I have to strongly disagree - if we compare these music system things with romantic entanglements it's rather that we had a break up in autumn last year, followed by an apology and a re-union and then the state of the relationship turned to the "we don't talk" level after one partner one-sidedly decided to change the terms of the relationship - there was no love, just stress and that goes on for more than half a year now - a lot of ppl have enough of this and now our "partner" just told us that he/she has other, more important things to do....

[Thurallor]

We've been down this road before, Thuralior. Mar. 12-15. That's your guess of the reported snap-pop issue when I backed up a claim that snap-pop was there; my slow machine or connection. It wasn't the case. I can't stress enough why I reported this. Snap-pop was there Monday from U15.3 release and gone 4 days after release on a Friday hours before concert. No settings change on my end. Now back 11 days after U15.3 release. And once more, you suggest it's my slow machine. How many times are we going to do this? Opinions are fine. You also stated you don't launch multiple accounts, which so far is being reported by 3? other players either multi-boxing or band members.

I give up. Good news is that if we're both consistent, people can judge for themelves what we're saying and judge for themselves.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to cast doubt upon your reported experience. A situation where the performance is "marginal" (i.e. sometimes working and sometimes not, depending on available CPU resources, etc.) is not good and needs to be addressed. If it's marginal on your machine, it will be marginal on lots of players' machines. The reason I am skeptical that a stealth server update was made and then rolled back is that I don't believe the snap-pop issue has anything to do with the server. It is most likely a client issue. And there was no client update on the date when you reported the problem had gone away.

I am just trying to provide my interpretation (as an experienced software developer in audio products, but not a musician) of the reports from you and others. I only dabble with music in LOTRO and have never created my own .abc files. If there ever were a conflict between you and me on subjective judgements, I would defer to you. But since we're speculating about the root cause of software issues, I feel I have some relevant expertise.

It sure would be interesting to hear from the devs on the subject.

[Lolorndinfey]

In your Turbinelauncher.exe, Options, do you have "Ask before downloading new update" enabled or off?

(Default is off, meaning updates are downloaded on lauch without prompt)

[robbie1435]

So, this is what you're telling us Vvy, "Sorry, but after we bugged your beloved system so much, we're going to go make new content rather than fixing the old content we've broken."

For once in about two years, I had faith in Turbine... It's slowly dying off.