World Transfers

[maartena]

What is a tribe in Lotro?

The equivalent of a kinship on the monster play (creep) side.

[maartena]

Bold by me, THIS needs to be shouted at the rooftops at the highest level since everyone and their cousin is under the assumption that these start in 3 days for EVERYONE.

Twitter, Login alert, Forums front page, etc.

Transfers never started for "everyone" on Monday, the letter clearly laid out the process of staggering the moves over the course of several weeks, 2 world at a time. What people have been assuming for almost a week now is that transfers between the 5 remaining worlds would start on Monday, and that appears not to be the case.

[monk_tbd]

because it means we won't see a Brandywine exodus on Monday, possibly taking over names of people on other servers.

Well if you transfer away from Brandy then you possibly do not have an in demand name as in demand names have likely been taken on Brandy such a long time ago that that person is much more attached to Brandy as people who transferred or started new on Brandy the last maybe 3 years.
And those late comers will much less likely have in demand names in the first place.

While there is the possibility of taking over in demand names happening I do not see that as a big problem.


The biggest problem is still people who have to transfer of smaller worlds (i.e. also people who have been on that server since the server went live) to have in demand names that then would eventually be snagged before others of medium populated worlds that also close will have a chance to.


Besides trying to get your name on all servers now before char creation is being shut down on closing servers I do not see a way to have the best chance on getting your name on a remaining world if that name is currently taken there by transferring from a closing world.

[MrWarg]

I would like to know how creep character transfers will be handled. What will happen if someone wants to transfer a creep character from a server that is closing to one of the remaining servers, but they already have a creep character of the same class on the server they are moving to? There is a limit of one creep character per class, which means that players transferring creep characters to a server on which they already have creep characters would run into this limit. Will players have to choose creep characters to delete? Will we be allowed to have more than creep character per class? Ideally it would be the latter.

[frickinmuck]

I would like to know how creep character transfers will be handled. What will happen if someone wants to transfer a creep character from a server that is closing to one of the remaining servers, but they already have a creep character of the same class on the server they are moving to? There is a limit of one creep character per class, which means that players transferring creep characters to a server on which they already have creep characters would run into this limit. Will players have to choose creep characters to delete? Will we be allowed to have more than creep character per class? Ideally it would be the latter.

Was about to come here with the same question. I imagine they're going to let us have more than one, but it would be nice to know.

[maartena]

I would like to know how creep character transfers will be handled. What will happen if someone wants to transfer a creep character from a server that is closing to one of the remaining servers, but they already have a creep character of the same class on the server they are moving to? There is a limit of one creep character per class, which means that players transferring creep characters to a server on which they already have creep characters would run into this limit. Will players have to choose creep characters to delete? Will we be allowed to have more than creep character per class? Ideally it would be the latter.

That has been handled: You will be allowed multiple creeps of the same class. On the logon screen there will be a pull-down menu with which creep of the same class so you can pick which one you want to log on.

[Silmelin]

How is this any different from you transferring in the next couple weeks/months and maybe taking someone else's name who might be in the same situation of currently taking a long vacation?

There's a big difference. This would be a one time worry, instead of an ongoing year-after-year stress that the late-comers will feel as well because when they have grabbed a name from someone else, they'll need to guard it constantly to not lose it themselves, and what if they need to go on a long vacation again?
Also, Turbine mentioned sending out mails explaining what's going on, and then everyone who cared about their names would be able to log in on the characters they want to keep the names of, though I can't tell if any mails were sent out since I don't get any mail from them for some reason.


If there needs to be a way to clear inactive names of people who will never return, it's not a very nice idea to clear them from active accounts! Look instead to inactive accounts, instead of characters.

[MrWarg]

That has been handled: You will be allowed multiple creeps of the same class. On the logon screen there will be a pull-down menu with which creep of the same class so you can pick which one you want to log on.

Thank you for answering. This is a rather long thread so I wasn't keen on wading through all of it, but that is great news to hear that it has already been addressed and with good news too.

[Azmadais]

Your answer lies in research, try this post, linked in the very first post of this thread

I've already read through that, but it doesn't answer my specific question. According to that news letter, all items in your Shard Storage will transfer, but what I want to know is what will happen to the items in your regular Vault Storage. Will they transfer with you, or will you lose them when you transfer, leaving them behind in the server? Will you have to put them all in our inventory in order to take them with you?

[Scirocco]

I've already read through that, but it doesn't answer my specific question. According to that news letter, all items in your Shard Storage will transfer, but what I want to know is what will happen to the items in your regular Vault Storage. Will they transfer with you, or will you lose them when you transfer, leaving them behind in the server? Will you have to put them all in our inventory in order to take them with you?

Why would you lose them? Your regular Vault storage already transfers with you. No need to make an additional point that it is included with a transfer, unlike wardrobes and shared storage.

[Gwanwyn]

Please note I found an error in the original article, which we are working to correct, but I will state here:
“The new Transfer Service will become available with this patch. You will be able to access it through the launcher at the World Selection screen after logging into your account. There will be a button that says “Transfer” underneath the “Play” button. Beginning August 3rd the service will be available for copying characters to the Bullroarer Test World and for free moves between the ten worlds (5 US and 5 EU) that will be remaining available after the end of this year. This is just the beginning of the process.”

The paragraph has incorrect information. Free moves between the main worlds will not start Monday, only Bullroarer copies will be available that day. Transfers between the remaining worlds will probably be a week or two later after we spend some time with the copies to Bullroarer and make sure there are no issues.

I am sorry for any stress this error may have caused.

I was wondering about this when I read the article and I'm still confused.

I'm not sure I understand how Bullroarer enters into the the transferring issues. That is just the Public Test realm right? And just 1 server? I don't understand how that would help with transferring characters to different servers. Are they making copies of all the remaining servers?

[Scirocco]

I was wondering about this when I read the article and I'm still confused.

I'm not sure I understand how Bullroarer enters into the the transferring issues. That is just the Public Test realm right? And just 1 server? I don't understand how that would help with transferring characters to different servers. Are they making copies of all the servers?

It's just for testing the transfer service. You can "copy" (instead of transferring) a character from a live server to BR, just to see if everything carries over (Kinships not included). If it doesn't, bug it so it will be fixed before the transfer service goes live.

You don't have to do anything with BR. You can just wait until server transfers open up for real, and then transfer from your current server to one of the surviving live servers.

[Gwanwyn]

It's just for testing the transfer service. You can "copy" (instead of transferring) a character from a live server to BR, just to see if everything carries over (Kinships not included).

You don't have to do anything with BR. You can just wait until server transfers open up for real, and then transfer from your current server to one of the surviving live servers.

I figured that is what happened. What I still don't understand though, is how this would help testing transfers. I would think, since they have had Bullroarer all along, they would have that data already.

[monk_tbd]

There's a big difference. This would be a one time worry, instead of an ongoing year-after-year stress that the late-comers will feel as well because when they have grabbed a name from someone else, they'll need to guard it constantly to not lose it themselves, and what if they need to go on a long vacation again?

So basically people who are currently not playing for whatever reason (like long military assignments, being sick, etc...) should get shafted as the feature should only be available now but not in the future?

Please note I am not disagreeing with that there is a possibility of this hanging over our heads from this point onwards but how much of a problem will it really be?
If you add your own toons on your friendslist or have them in the same kin you see when you played them the last time.
Also the probability of people that are currently not playing but having the same name as you do who will then transfer later on from a different old world to the same new world as you do are rather slim I would think.

I think this is much less of a problem in the grand scheme of things called server closures.
I could see the point of using active accounts instead of active chars but that is a different way of implementing it without us knowing how complex and error prone it would be.

[Vyvyanne]

I figured that is what happened. What I still don't understand though, is how this would help testing transfers. I would think, since they have had Bullroarer all along, they would have that data already.

The transfer service we are introducing with this effort is a new one that is used through the launcher vs the old one that was run through a website. Additionally there are now new features and many items that will transfer/ copy with your characters such as account items that would not to so before. Opening Bullroarer first for copy will let us test with a broader set of variables than we can use on our internal tests alone. It lets you, the players get a practice run of the system so you can familiarize yourself with it before doing the real transfers. And it will also allow us to load test and get an idea of how fast copies/ transfers will be when multiple players are trying to use it at once.

So the same reasons for any Bullroarer tests we run, basically. There are times problems may not come to light until they are put in front of actual users and Bullroarer helps us find those things in a safe environment.

[Gwanwyn]

The transfer service we are introducing with this effort is a new one that is used through the launcher vs the old one that was run through a website. Additionally there are now new features and many items that will transfer/ copy with your characters such as account items that would not to so before. Opening Bullroarer first for copy will let us test with a broader set of variables than we can use on our internal tests alone. It lets you, the players get a practice run of the system so you can familiarize yourself with it before doing the real transfers. And it will also allow us to load test and get an idea of how fast copies/ transfers will be when multiple players are trying to use it at once.

So the same reasons for any Bullroarer tests we run, basically. There are times problems may not come to light until they are put in front of actual users and Bullroarer helps us find those things in a safe environment.

That makes sense! Thank you!

[Mar-Evayave]

I figured that is what happened. What I still don't understand though, is how this would help testing transfers. I would think, since they have had Bullroarer all along, they would have that data already.

Because their in-house testing will be limited. How many employees do they actually have to test it? Compared to dozens or hundreds of people who typically participate in the various beta testings. The more people you have testing, the more likely that broken things will be found. It's like in statistics, where you need to have random selection and random distribution. It's not random selection if you are telling specific employees to test something, and it's not random distribution if it's only those few.

So they open it to us to test on BR. It doesn't matter if it fails on BR because it's just the test server. But better to fail on BR than to fail on live.

That has been handled: You will be allowed multiple creeps of the same class. On the logon screen there will be a pull-down menu with which creep of the same class so you can pick which one you want to log on.

I think this only works for transferring creeps, though. For example, I'm pretty sure you still only can create one per monster type per server. Could be wrong, but that's how it read to me.

[Silmelin]

So basically people who are currently not playing for whatever reason (like long military assignments, being sick, etc...) should get shafted as the feature should only be available now but not in the future?

Please note I am not disagreeing with that there is a possibility of this hanging over our heads from this point onwards but how much of a problem will it really be?
If you add your own toons on your friendslist or have them in the same kin you see when you played them the last time.
Also the probability of people that are currently not playing but having the same name as you do who will then transfer later on from a different old world to the same new world as you do are rather slim I would think.

I think this is much less of a problem in the grand scheme of things called server closures.
I could see the point of using active accounts instead of active chars but that is a different way of implementing it without us knowing how complex and error prone it would be.

But they would still "get shafted" as you said, no matter if those who are active now have to keep worrying or not. And they might get shafted again when they come back. So it would be better for everyone for whom names are important if Turbine returned to the old rules after the server closings are over, or made it be about active account instead of active character. If I were away for years it wouldn't make me happier when I came back if I knew that everyone else had to feel worried and stressed out as well. The less people who feel worried, the better, and those few who are away for a long time won't be happier just because many people are stressed out while they are away, and will keep being stressed out when they come back and join in the stressed out feeling themselves

Adding characters to the friend's list doesn't work for me, I have so many characters across several servers, and I prefer having friends in my list instead of filling it with an army of myself
Also, it's not that slim a chance that someone with the same name as me from a closed server will come back and transfer to one of my servers some day because of the type of names it is, and since I won't know which server they will go to if they do, that means I'll have to set up special days regularly where I log in on all my characters, just like in the games I played before I came to LOTRO. It was very very stressful. And an extremely boring way of spending game-time


People are different and while there are some who don't really care about names, they'd just choose a different name if they lost theirs, there are also those of us who take names very seriously and there's nothing wrong with that either It's quite common among fans of Tolkien's works to care a lot about names I've spent days/weeks and for some names even months reading dictionaries and trying different combos to see which one fitted best to the look/race/class/personality of the character, and I for one care deeply about the names I decided on.

I do hope Turbine thinks carefully about this after the transfers are over, so those of us who are actively playing won't have to have this hanging over our heads forever.

[Anwiga]

Are name priorities only given to new transfers? (that is, after the new transfer system is implemented).

When I first heard of possible server closures I made a new toon on a server I figured wouldn't close. I ended up liking it so much that I decided to transfer one of my main toons there. Before I did, I added the name of toon I was going to transfer to my friends list. There was a low lvl hunter with that name already who hadn't been on in over a year. I decided to transfer anyways. When I did, the server somehow got confused. The low lvl hunter with the same name somehow changed into a lvl 100 LM and now the last login date this person has is the day I transferred my LM with the same name.

I ended up with a -1, of course, and I'm wondering if I will lose the -1 now that name priorities will be implemented. Or, if the name priorities only count for new incoming names. If that's the case, can I transfer off of this server, then back to get rid of the -1?

[Knossa]

I agree, but that is not what I meant.
I mean the misinformation...that's been out there for about 5 days or so.
Thankfully, it was caught before Monday hit, because the forum would have been lit up like a Christmas tree.

Ah I see. Point taken!

[Ellyllon]

I'll try the Bullroarer feature - that sounds like a good test.

I'm still finding the 'surviving servers go first' part hard to understand. Maybe fewer people will choose to move, but it feels unfair. Some of us can head to our chosen server now, get names, level enough (and get enough gold) to buy our former houses (assuming those were Deluxe, it may not be that easy to get your old one. When I got mine, there were 3 left available.) The people on surviving servers are lucky - they get to keep kins, names, houses. It seems *uncomfortable* to give them first moves, too. Smallest servers first - that seems reasonable to me. (and there might be fewer people transferring, if the servers are so small, anyway.) They know the population of, say, Riddermark. But though unlikely, you could get a huge exodus from Brandywine (lag, wanting a free change, names - lots of motivation) so at least you could be certain of the cap of transfers from the little servers.

(and is there a cooldown on transfers?)

I can work around it. (I have.) But it leaves a bad taste.

[maartena]

The transfer service we are introducing with this effort is a new one that is used through the launcher vs the old one that was run through a website. Additionally there are now new features and many items that will transfer/ copy with your characters such as account items that would not to so before. Opening Bullroarer first for copy will let us test with a broader set of variables than we can use on our internal tests alone. It lets you, the players get a practice run of the system so you can familiarize yourself with it before doing the real transfers. And it will also allow us to load test and get an idea of how fast copies/ transfers will be when multiple players are trying to use it at once.

So the same reasons for any Bullroarer tests we run, basically. There are times problems may not come to light until they are put in front of actual users and Bullroarer helps us find those things in a safe environment.

Out of curiosity:

US players can copy to Bullroarer.
EU players can copy to Bullroarer.

In theory, once the 5 + 5 worlds are set, an effort could be made to make e.g. 10 brand new servers, and use the COPY function used on Bullroarer, to copy everyone to 10 servers that are completely equal in database setup? I know it will take a lot more than that since there is billing systems and whatnot involved, but since the copy function for Bullroarer is being expanded as described above, perhaps it may become possible to merge all the EU/US accounts using the same technology. In theory, of course.

[maartena]

Are name priorities only given to new transfers? (that is, after the new transfer system is implemented).

When I first heard of possible server closures I made a new toon on a server I figured wouldn't close. I ended up liking it so much that I decided to transfer one of my main toons there. Before I did, I added the name of toon I was going to transfer to my friends list. There was a low lvl hunter with that name already who hadn't been on in over a year. I decided to transfer anyways. When I did, the server somehow got confused. The low lvl hunter with the same name somehow changed into a lvl 100 LM and now the last login date this person has is the day I transferred my LM with the same name.

I ended up with a -1, of course, and I'm wondering if I will lose the -1 now that name priorities will be implemented. Or, if the name priorities only count for new incoming names. If that's the case, can I transfer off of this server, then back to get rid of the -1?

It's only for new transfers, but if you got renamed -1, you should have already gotten a free rename token. If you didn't get a free rename token, create a ticket. If you lost it, destroyed it, or there is another reason you are currently stuck with the -1 name, you may have to buy a rename token. One thing you could try is this, and it is tricky:

1) create a toon called "Name" on any server, wait till you can transfer to the chosen 5.
2) transfer this toon to a server that has "Name" already, and it will become "Name-1"
3) transfer your toon to the same server that now has a "Name-1" and you may become "Name-2" WITH a free rename token.
4) transfer your toon BACK to the server you came from, with the free rename token in tow.
5) change into the name you want.... if you can.

[tickertape]

So does Bullroarer need to be installed on my computer to do transfers?

[DancesInTrees]

Out of curiosity:

US players can copy to Bullroarer.
EU players can copy to Bullroarer.
...

and if anything goes wrong, all that is lost is copies.