World Transfers

[maartena]

Current logins of all worlds as of 7/31 at 3PM PST / 6 PM PST (just before this post), measured from the last restart of the servers on 7/27.

1 - Brandywine: 71799
2 - Gladden: 37777
3 - Landroval: 32437
4 - Crickhollow: 19359
5 - Arkenstone: 14999
6 - Meneldor: 14107
7 - Silverlode: 12368
8 - Vilya: 12276
9 - Elendilmir: 12049 (swapped with #10)
10 - Imladris: 11987 (swapped with #9)
11 - Dwarrowdelf: 11507
12 - Nimrodel: 10399
13 - Firefoot: 10145
14 - Windfola: 10116
15 - Riddermark: 9997

#9 and #10 swapped spaces compared to my previous post.

The bottom 4 are only 400 apart between Riddermark (15) and Nimrodel (12)

GREEN = Servers almost certainly to stay.
YELLOW = Fate unknown, could go either way.
RED = Servers almost certainly to close.

[Fratonia]

Are name priorities only given to new transfers? (that is, after the new transfer system is implemented).

When I first heard of possible server closures I made a new toon on a server I figured wouldn't close. I ended up liking it so much that I decided to transfer one of my main toons there. Before I did, I added the name of toon I was going to transfer to my friends list. There was a low lvl hunter with that name already who hadn't been on in over a year. I decided to transfer anyways. When I did, the server somehow got confused. The low lvl hunter with the same name somehow changed into a lvl 100 LM and now the last login date this person has is the day I transferred my LM with the same name.

I ended up with a -1, of course, and I'm wondering if I will lose the -1 now that name priorities will be implemented. Or, if the name priorities only count for new incoming names. If that's the case, can I transfer off of this server, then back to get rid of the -1?

The new transfer system is not active yet. You probably used a payed transfer which doesn't work the same. You may get rid of the -1 if you transfer to another server that has a character with the same name including the -1 (you can create that character yourself). Your character should then get a -2 and a free rename token. With that you can transfer back and rename but wait until the new transfer service is up! It makes no sense to try transfers now.

[tickertape]

and if anything goes wrong, all that is lost is copies.

I get that. Maybe I'm not understanding Vyv correctly when said that they will copy to Bullroarer first, then transfer. Does Turbine copy my character to BR when I hit the "transfer" button then transferred to new world later? Or is it a dropdown choice we players make? BR is not on my computer due to space issues.

[Ellyllon]

Current logins of all worlds as of 7/31 at 3PM PST / 6 PM PST (just before this post), measured from the last restart of the servers on 7/27.

1 - Brandywine: 71799
2 - Gladden: 37777
3 - Landroval: 32437
4 - Crickhollow: 19359
5 - Arkenstone: 14999
6 - Meneldor: 14107
7 - Silverlode: 12368
8 - Vilya: 12276
9 - Elendilmir: 12049 (swapped with #10)
10 - Imladris: 11987 (swapped with #9)
11 - Dwarrowdelf: 11507
12 - Nimrodel: 10399
13 - Firefoot: 10145
14 - Windfola: 10116
15 - Riddermark: 9997

#9 and #10 swapped spaces compared to my previous post.

The bottom 4 are only 400 apart between Riddermark (15) and Nimrodel (12)

GREEN = Servers almost certainly to stay.
YELLOW = Fate unknown, could go either way.
RED = Servers almost certainly to close.

Assuming this is accurate, then this is the part I don't understand. If the top 5 are allowed to transfer first that's a whole lot more people than if they let Riddermark & Windfola move first. The cap is much higher on Brandywine alone. I'm not sure why those servers are considered an easier test. Besides being weirdly unfair, it doesn't fit the reasoning.

Those are odd times, though. Elendilmir, at least, doesn't get busy until the middle of the night (Eastern time) Not sure about the others, but that's a pretty short window. I have to assume Turbine has a much more accurate assessment.

[elbac1957]

I get that. Maybe I'm not understanding Vyv correctly when said that they will copy to Bullroarer first, then transfer. Does Turbine copy my character to BR when I hit the "transfer" button then transferred to new world later? Or is it a dropdown choice we players make? BR is not on my computer due to space issues.

Nope. Bullroarer will be used (starting Monday 8/3) to TEST the new transfer system. Since it is a test server, it is only a copy, not an actual transfer.

Once transfers between remaining (that is, non-closing) worlds is opened up, you would initiate a transfer directly to the server you wish to transfer to. You won't need Bullroarer at all for the actual transfer.

Hope that makes sense - it is confusing!

[Mercho]

Current logins of all worlds as of 7/31 at 3PM PST / 6 PM PST (just before this post), measured from the last restart of the servers on 7/27.

1 - Brandywine: 71799
2 - Gladden: 37777
3 - Landroval: 32437
4 - Crickhollow: 19359
5 - Arkenstone: 14999
6 - Meneldor: 14107
7 - Silverlode: 12368
8 - Vilya: 12276
9 - Elendilmir: 12049 (swapped with #10)
10 - Imladris: 11987 (swapped with #9)
11 - Dwarrowdelf: 11507
12 - Nimrodel: 10399
13 - Firefoot: 10145
14 - Windfola: 10116
15 - Riddermark: 9997

#9 and #10 swapped spaces compared to my previous post.

The bottom 4 are only 400 apart between Riddermark (15) and Nimrodel (12)

GREEN = Servers almost certainly to stay.
YELLOW = Fate unknown, could go either way.
RED = Servers almost certainly to close.

If these numbers are accurate, and representative, I imagine the doors to Landroval and Gladden will shut at some point during the free transfer period.

[Gwanwyn]

Current logins of all worlds as of 7/31 at 3PM PST / 6 PM PST (just before this post), measured from the last restart of the servers on 7/27.

1 - Brandywine: 71799
2 - Gladden: 37777
3 - Landroval: 32437
4 - Crickhollow: 19359
5 - Arkenstone: 14999
6 - Meneldor: 14107
7 - Silverlode: 12368
8 - Vilya: 12276
9 - Elendilmir: 12049 (swapped with #10)
10 - Imladris: 11987 (swapped with #9)
11 - Dwarrowdelf: 11507
12 - Nimrodel: 10399
13 - Firefoot: 10145
14 - Windfola: 10116
15 - Riddermark: 9997

#9 and #10 swapped spaces compared to my previous post.

The bottom 4 are only 400 apart between Riddermark (15) and Nimrodel (12)

GREEN = Servers almost certainly to stay.
YELLOW = Fate unknown, could go either way.
RED = Servers almost certainly to close.

If those numbers are right, (or anywhere close) Brandywine and the other top 4 should be the last to have the option to move. 70,000 compared to (just under) 10,000? I really don't understand why they don't give the priority to those servers which have to transfer. Why give it to the ones who are losing nothing? I understand the need to test, but there has got to be a more fair way. (Like letting the smallest servers be the ones to go first and test.)

[Eirika]

If those numbers are right, (or anywhere close) Brandywine and the other top 4 should be the last to have the option to move. 70,000 compared to (just under) 10,000? I really don't understand why they don't give the priority to those servers which have to transfer. Why give it to the ones who are losing nothing? I understand the need to test, but there has got to be a more fair way. (Like letting the smallest servers be the ones to go first and test.)

I believe they are hoping folks will migrate off the crowded servers thus creating more room for those from the 'doomed' servers....especially off Brandy

Lothhil, BW

[MithrilMinded]

Fate unknown.....

The arkenstone. ....... -continues singing -

[Ellyllon]

I believe they are hoping folks will migrate off the crowded servers thus creating more room for those from the 'doomed' servers....especially off Brandy

Lothhil, BW

Why would it be beneficial to have people leave Brandywine? It's not open to transfers. All this can do is add to the flood into the other 4. I don't see how this could be considered a good thing. Not to mention the naming/housing/kin issues, which would mean those people from surviving servers get first pick. This would be an easy thing to alter - let the tiny servers go first, & leave the surviving ones for last. They're losing least.

I've heard the assumption that people from Brandywine won't move en masse because of names, etc. But they don't have much to lose, & potentially, a lot to gain, considering current lag. They can't go back to BW for the time being, but before the next set of servers gets to move, they can hop all over. The assumption few people will choose this seems wildly implausible. And if they do, the numbers could easily equal the entirety of the smallest servers. Sure, if only 20 people happen to take the option, it won't be a problem, but if they do, the other 4 *will* be shut off to the rest of us, & that is stunningly *unfair.*

[Gwanwyn]

I believe they are hoping folks will migrate off the crowded servers thus creating more room for those from the 'doomed' servers....especially off Brandy

Lothhil, BW

I don't see how that would create room at all. If you look at the numbers, there is vast difference between the top 5 and the bottom. (I am assuming that the chart is character based and not account. Even so, that is still a huge difference between the servers) If creating room was the concern, then logically the smaller servers would go first, since they are the smallest population. (And aren't transfers happening because of the move to better databanks? So that the remaining servers can handle a larger population? "Room" shouldn't be an issue at all.)


The higher the population, the greater the odds are of people transferring in larger numbers. So for example, if approximately 10%-15% of Brandywine's population (according to that login chart, over 70,000) decides to transfer, that would basically be the entire population of the bottom server -Riddermark (Just under 10,000 logins).

This is what is vastly unbalanced and I hope Turbine reconsiders the decision to have the most populated servers transfer first.

[motumbo]

The arkenstone. ....... -continues singing -

We will survive!!!!

[Thorgrum]

We will survive!!!!

Isnt it scintillating to see your home server in 5th?

I think we should have the top 3 safe the final three go into slot machine (another one of turbines brilliant ideas ! ) and this new producer on twitch does 10 rolls, which ever two comes up the most wins.

I'll watch it, will you?

[Rhoewyn]

Isnt it scintillating to see your home server in 5th?

I think we should have the top 3 safe the final three go into slot machine (another one of turbines brilliant ideas ! ) and this new producer on twitch does 10 rolls, which ever two comes up the most wins.

I'll watch it, will you?

Something like the NBA draft lottery perhaps? Where we know who is in the first 3 envelopes. The rest are opened one at a time. The higher your population, the better your odds were of being in the 4th or 5th slot, but every single year of the NBA lottery some team jumps their expected slot. This could be very entertaining...

[Thorgrum]

Something like the NBA draft lottery perhaps? Where we know who is in the first 3 envelopes. The rest are opened one at a time. The higher your population, the better your odds were of being in the 4th or 5th slot, but every single year of the NBA lottery some team jumps their expected slot. This could be very entertaining...

Ya but it has to be on the hobbit presents slot machine, that way if the rest of the mmo world watches the event the lotro players will get the esoterics. You know, really good decisions like a slot machine instead of meaningful content DID NOT lead to the server merger end.

[tickertape]

Nope. Bullroarer will be used (starting Monday 8/3) to TEST the new transfer system. Since it is a test server, it is only a copy, not an actual transfer.

Once transfers between remaining (that is, non-closing) worlds is opened up, you would initiate a transfer directly to the server you wish to transfer to. You won't need Bullroarer at all for the actual transfer.

Hope that makes sense - it is confusing!

Think I got it now. It's optional for OUR personal testing of things. Not required for us by Turbine for their testing of things.
Lol I hope I have it correct now.

thx much

[Amrundir]

Current logins of all worlds as of 7/31 at 3PM PST / 6 PM PST (just before this post), measured from the last restart of the servers on 7/27.

1 - Brandywine: 71799
2 - Gladden: 37777
3 - Landroval: 32437
4 - Crickhollow: 19359
...

These numbers look familiar to me.

I don't see how that would create room at all. If you look at the numbers, there is vast difference between the top 5 and the bottom. (I am assuming that the chart is character based and not account.

The numbers are login numbers, gathered from launcher. Login is, when you click the PLAY button in launcher and enter the world.

[Radbug]

Please note I found an error in the original article, which we are working to correct, but I will state here:
“The new Transfer Service will become available with this patch. You will be able to access it through the launcher at the World Selection screen after logging into your account. There will be a button that says “Transfer” underneath the “Play” button. Beginning August 3rd the service will be available for copying characters to the Bullroarer Test World and for free moves between the ten worlds (5 US and 5 EU) that will be remaining available after the end of this year. This is just the beginning of the process.”

The paragraph has incorrect information. Free moves between the main worlds will not start Monday, only Bullroarer copies will be available that day. Transfers between the remaining worlds will probably be a week or two later after we spend some time with the copies to Bullroarer and make sure there are no issues.

I am sorry for any stress this error may have caused.

Jeez, interest levels waining...

Please make sure this rather important information gets out there and doesn't stay buried on page whatever of this thread. You'll be doing yourself a favour.

[Cenifh]

Please don't do that! Many of us are very attached to our names and spend days/weeks/months thinking of the perfect one (I know I'm not the only one in LOTRO who has read several dictionaries from cover to cover several times just to be able to build the perfect name).

Among my friends I've seen many disappear for a long time due to RL stuff like having to focus completely on their education or health issues and such, and when they finally can play again they'd be very upset to suddenly have lost their name. And I'm sure that some who return will leave again when they see that someone else took their name And that their old friends won't recognize them anymore.

LOTRO is a special type of game, I have often seen people on my main server who comes back after being gone a couple of years, lured into the green grass of a new game, and then they got tired of it and they remember all the fun they had in LOTRO so they pop back in again. Don't chase them away, please!

Also, when I chose a game to play one of the things I looked for was that the characters can never get deleted (taking away the name feels just as bad to me) because before that I had been playing games where you had to log in every 6 months or so or you'd loose them. That made gaming not fun at all for me. It became stressful work where I had to schedule a day here and there to log in my many many many characters so none would be touched.
I want to be able to play the character I feel like playing, and I don't want to have to keep notes where I write the date next to the character's names to show me when I last logged in so I can make sure none of them accidentally gets no playtime due to me feeling like playing other characters and then poof one day, name gone

I understand that now while the transfers are happening it'll be a bit sticky for a while since so many have to move around, but that's OK.
I don't mind working to get what I want, but please don't become one of those games where you have to do hard work just to keep what you already have. Please?

It's been 7 months since they announced this transition, enough time for them to log in 5 minutes to keep their name, if they didnt, well, they dont love the name that much.

[Silmelin]

I'm glad Turbine chose this way to handle names during the transfer I just hope they won't continue after the transfers are over. If you have to take away names, look at inactive accounts instead of inactive characters, please Turbine

It's been 7 months since they announced this transition, enough time for them to log in 5 minutes to keep their name, if they didnt, well, they dont love the name that much.

Not 7 months though. All they said in the beginning was that servers will close and that we'll get info about the rest later. It has only been a few days since Turbine told us they were going to take this road when it comes to names. It would have been a waste of time logging in on all our characters if it had turned out that they were going by earliest created or most played or something else Not that it's a problem if it stays a once only thing. The problems will appear later if they start selling rename tokens that can take character names at any time if they haven't been logged in lately

[Gwanwyn]

]We are starting with letting the remaining worlds redistribute first to allow players to choose to leave the largest ones[/U] if they wish making room for more players and also because we expect to see the smallest number of moves during this stage. Next we will be opening up with the smallest population closing worlds and going up the list from there. The purpose of this is not to overtax the system by allowing everyone to slam into it at once and also so that we can monitor populations. If one of the destination worlds is getting overfull we can provide it with more resources or fix any issues we might run into. We do not expect any of the remaining worlds to be closed to transfers permanently. Once they are all on new hardware they should be capable of handling current population load, but while we work through the process we want to be able to respond and correct appropriately.

This is really what's bothering me. I understand not wanting to overload the system, which is why letting the smallest servers transfer first makes the most sense and is the most fair.

There is no given that only a 'few' people will transfer to test the system. ('Few' is relative. A few in terms of the largest populated world would not be the same as a few in the least populated one.)
Letting the most populated servers transfer at will has many ways to backfire. For example, what happens if more people transfer from the remaining worlds then expected? What happens to the population of the other remaining servers? With the smaller ones, there is a cap which can't be gone over due to the amount of accounts.

Ultimately, it means that the biggest servers get the first pick of... everything. They are not the ones who are being forced to leave. They don't have to reconnect with kin members, find new homes and names. They are losing nothing. The most decent thing to do would be to let the smallest server transfer first. If that means just the 1 lowest at first, fine. But the server with no choice in the matter should have the first go.

As I have said previously, I really hope Turbine reconsiders letting the remaining servers have the first option to transfer.

[Milogson]

There are a load of unanswered questions in this transfer situation which I have not seen discussed in any manner.
Assume the following (like I said on page 26 of this thread):

Situation:
Player has 10 character slots per server current max, with another 11 openable by shop purchase, PER SERVER as per the current standard limits of 21 max.

Player has 10 full character slots on all 6 German EU servers. Let's assume half of them storage characters with full bank storage, the other half played and max-equipped.
5 EU-DE servers are shut down and merged into one.

Transfer attempt:
Player logs into each world and chooses a Full Server Transfer to the remaining DE server.
Repeat 5 times for each closing DE-server.

Question 1) On trying to transfer the whole server #4 character alotment (or later even number #5) to the remaining DE-server. This now surpasses the absolute maximum number of 42 character slots on the target server. What happens?
1a) Is the whole transfer halted and aborted?
1b) Are only those 2 characters which still have a free possible alotment number transfered?
1b1) How are those two characters chosen? Alphabetically? Numerically by character ID? Creation date?
1b2) What happens to the remaining characters?
1c) Are all characters transfered but 8 of them fall into some kind of limbo?

Question 2
2A) Is it possible to retain all characters transfered, even if the number exceeds the absolute maximum of 42 character slots?
2B1) Does that mean the player has to open up a total of 32 character slots to regain access to the remaining 32 additional characters up to a max of 42?
2B2) How do you choose from characters that are 'out-of-slot-limit', ie above 42 max slots?
2C) What happens to already maxed out full bank space PER CHARACTER WHICH IS NOT ACCOUNT BOUND but who are a) now turned inactive, or b) out-of-slot-limit?
2D) What happens to bought housing space (as they were all on different servers) -possibly bought with MC for a) inactive, or b) out-of-slot-limit characters? Is the in-game-gold returned for the bought chest expansion, as this can add up to quite a sum for multiple servers?
2E) What happens to shared kinship storage bought with MC that are transfered but can not be used until the slots are activated which now might contain an ex-kinship leader?
2F) What happens to all those TP/MC spent on bank space, or chest space in housing?
2F1) Are they restored to the account?
2F2) Are they lost?

Question 3
What if one of the characters transfered above the limit of 42 is a kinship leader?
3A) Is the kinship still auto-disbanded on the closing server when the transfer is attempted?
3A1) If it is not auto-disbanded will the kinship mail be auto-deleted?
3A2) If it is auto-disbanded but the transfer is aborted, will the kinship be fully reinstated automatically on the closing server until a new transfer is attempted?
3B1) If the transfer seems successful but the character is in the slots above 42 max, is the kinship transfered with him?
3B2) Is the kinship lost?
3B3) How can the kinship be activated if the character can't be accessed?

Question 4
If the characters above the maximum of 42 slots can not be transfered to a DE server what should a non-English-speaking player do with their remaining DE-characters?


********

Suggested solution:

Please consider an offer of one free character slot on the target server for every character with a /played-time of greater than (let's take a fictious number) 6 days transfered to a server with currently full slots, but with the opportunity of opening up more (up to the maximum of 42). Limit these free character slot to once only.

This should limit the free-loaders but allow an avid player to retain their full alotment of active and transfered characters.

********


Because buying 32 character slots is a totally unrealistic prospect for anyone who has not saved their TP for years.
And forcing players to buy TP for that amount is a move which Turbine should seriously consider aborting instantly.
That WILL cause a lot of players to leave - instantly and without a trace.

Accepting all the hassle of a server merger should not cost the players an unreasonable load of money in addition to all the frustration.

To prevent some nitpicking:
Asking someone who is not fluent in English to transfer their characters to an EN-server is not acceptable, because it in effect removes them from an MMO-environment and places them in a single-player environemt. Which is not what we signed up for when we started playing this game.

Yes, most people on the DE-servers will be able to understand, and write in, English, but that is not the case for everyone. Maybe because they learned other languages than English (there are quite a few who speak excellent Russian or Spanish, but both languages are not currently supported in the EU-servers). So this in effect limits these players massively in their choice of target servers for transfers. Even if they did speak English that still does not mean that they WANT to move to a non-DE-server.

And if they worked hard enough to have maxed out their character slots on six servers which are now merged into one they should not be punished for it.

Please consider a reasonable approach to this dilemma.
Thank you in advance.
Greets
Milo

[Rahukal]

OMG, I'm so excited! I can't wait. I'm reserving my character names now on my planned destination server. I realized there are some names that I'm no longer fond of but didn't want to bother with the cost of a name change, so now it's an opportunity to find one that's a better match. Surprisingly a lot of names had not been taken yet. It feels like I'm packing to go on a new adventure... to find a new home. So excited.

[Eirika]

Why would it be beneficial to have people leave Brandywine? It's not open to transfers. All this can do is add to the flood into the other 4. I don't see how this could be considered a good thing. Not to mention the naming/housing/kin issues, which would mean those people from surviving servers get first pick. This would be an easy thing to alter - let the tiny servers go first, & leave the surviving ones for last. They're losing least.

I've heard the assumption that people from Brandywine won't move en masse because of names, etc. But they don't have much to lose, & potentially, a lot to gain, considering current lag. They can't go back to BW for the time being, but before the next set of servers gets to move, they can hop all over. The assumption few people will choose this seems wildly implausible. And if they do, the numbers could easily equal the entirety of the smallest servers. Sure, if only 20 people happen to take the option, it won't be a problem, but if they do, the other 4 *will* be shut off to the rest of us, & that is stunningly *unfair.*

It would help if enough folks do leave Brandy to open up space for them to allow migration. I imagine there are people there who are just waiting for the transfers to get to a different server. As for lag I know I wouldn't leave Brandy until after the server move to see if the new hardware helps. I like it here, trolls and all...they can be ignored but all my friends are also here so I would not leave without a kin migration which won't happen.

Anyoo - I am just saying what I understood the reason may be...not judging it one way or the other. :-)

Lothhil, BW

[Xhiu]

Out of curiosity:

US players can copy to Bullroarer.
EU players can copy to Bullroarer.

In theory, once the 5 + 5 worlds are set, an effort could be made to make e.g. 10 brand new servers, and use the COPY function used on Bullroarer, to copy everyone to 10 servers that are completely equal in database setup? I know it will take a lot more than that since there is billing systems and whatnot involved, but since the copy function for Bullroarer is being expanded as described above, perhaps it may become possible to merge all the EU/US accounts using the same technology. In theory, of course.

In theory that could work if you TRANSFERRED your toon to BR then, since it was transferred in, transfer it out. All transferred toons would not be able to leave Housing, or Bree or, the cat house in BR. Sapience's ppl always used that as the default thingie. One minute you were in BR, the next login you were in the cat house.

I'm guessing that nothing changed on the db side so that players could work side by side but not server by server. Meaning just cuz you could see them doesn't mean... hmmm

I can't WAIT to break this.