Update 17.

[Arnenna]

This is the common ground needed. While I don't find classic instances to be of any added value (NB: added), it is clear that these are desired strongly enough to be worth doing. Yes, classic instance clusters should be done and there are settings for them that don't require excessive (my opinion) contrivances to have them.

A question arose in my mind. Would we have to have a full cluster, at once (see MoL's post above), or would people be willing to have it released over a (reasonably short) period of time?

At this point in time, I don't think people would mind too much if it's not a full cluster tbh. It would be something - and they need that something and have for a long time. The ball started rolling with Osgiliath instances and call me old fashioned, but launching the next update with an absence of instance and switching back to BB only is kinda like pulling the rug out from under the people that enjoy grouping up to play. There was a positive vibe after those launched, and it all looked very promising, and now people feel rightly disappointed that that side of things seems to have hit a hurdle again.

There will undoubtedly be a few people that will complain about the "only one" instance/raid, but at the end of the day, one is better than none at all. I'd love to see a cluster personally, but like I said . . . .

[bucko39]

If a raid was produced great, but if not i don't see many folks around me complaining in troves about it, or especially leaving the game because of it.

Well, if your forum date is anything to go by, you missed out on the majority of the complaining and the mass exodus so to speak. But, trust me, it happened.
And as it becomes more and more likely that we will not get a raid or equivalent content in the future, I see more people leaving.
Nostalgia and love of Middle Earth can only last so long. I think the folks who are remaining, despite not getting the content they hope for, are just being stubborn

[Snowlock]

And as it becomes more and more likely that we will not get a raid or equivalent content in the future, I see more people leaving.
Nostalgia and love of Middle Earth can only last so long. I think the folks who are remaining, despite not getting the content they hope for, are just being stubborn

To be fair, that ship has sailed. The folks that left over the lack of endgame are long gone. The folks that stayed that also loved endgame are going to stay or leave for other reasons. Middle Earth love will endure among those who stayed for it.

[Arnenna]

Well, if your forum date is anything to go by, you missed out on the majority of the complaining and the mass exodus so to speak. But, trust me, it happened.
And as it becomes more and more likely that we will not get a raid or equivalent content in the future, I see more people leaving.
Nostalgia and love of Middle Earth can only last so long. I think the folks who are remaining, despite not getting the content they hope for, are just being stubborn

I haven't been here that long, but I know people left over this issue. I think those that are left will stay - regardless. And stay til the end. Not through being stubborn, but through dedication to the game. Which is all the more reason for Turbine to show them that what they love about the game and they themselves are worth hanging onto.

[Imsoclastic]

That's because they left before your join date perhaps. There used to be alot of raiding kinds on BW and by 2013 they were all gone.

^^^^^ This a THOUSAND times sir.
The only proof you need of the rapidly declining population is to note that all of the raiding kins are gone.
There were what, 10 or more kins that used to run and complete T2C content on Brandywine? Now there are precisely none, because there is no content in this game for them anymore.

[Montrandir]

Well, if your forum date is anything to go by, you missed out on the majority of the complaining and the mass exodus so to speak. But, trust me, it happened.
And as it becomes more and more likely that we will not get a raid or equivalent content in the future, I see more people leaving.
Nostalgia and love of Middle Earth can only last so long. I think the folks who are remaining, despite not getting the content they hope for, are just being stubborn

I guess time will tell! I hope lotro is around for another long 8 years but we'll see Many other mmos out there exist with a fraction of the population lotro has so I don't see any problem there. Whatever works best for the most people in the game is what I want, if that's BB's then great, if it's Raids then that's great too, whatever works.

[Montrandir]

To be fair, that ship has sailed. The folks that left over the lack of endgame are long gone. The folks that stayed that also loved endgame are going to stay or leave for other reasons. Middle Earth love will endure among those who stayed for it.

I haven't been here that long, but I know people left over this issue. I think those that are left will stay - regardless. And stay til the end. Not through being stubborn, but through dedication to the game. Which is all the more reason for Turbine to show them that what they love about the game and they themselves are worth hanging onto.

Yeah my point exactly.

[Arnenna]

I guess time will tell! I hope lotro is around for another long 8 years but we'll see Many other mmos out there exist with a fraction of the population lotro has so I don't see any problem there. Whatever works best for the most people in the game is what I want, if that's BB's then great, if it's Raids then that's great too, whatever works.

I'm just a greedy guts . . . . I want it all Even content that I do not play myself. Why? Because while there is varied content, there will be varied players - and lots of them, and that keeps Middle Earth alive.

[Wanderv]

And again toxic vocal minority create hatefest pretending that they are 'echoes of majority'. No, they aren't.

BB's are fine and of course Pelennor fields battle should be represented as set of BB's. Though classic instances are good too so i'd like to see classic 6-man along with 2-3 BB's. As i understand second stage of the battle will be in U18 at spring 2016 - it'll be 1 year after U16. I think we should get classics at least 1 time per year. That would be fair.

PS. And i hope for Minas Morgul raid in U19
PPS. MoL, we'll accept even single classic. There is no necessity for clusters every time

[bucko39]

And again toxic vocal minority create hatefest pretending that they are 'echoes of majority'.

I think you are reading a different thread.
At the very least, it's a poor attempt at trolling on your part.
But, nice try

[Almagnus1]

To be fair, that ship has sailed. The folks that left over the lack of endgame are long gone. The folks that stayed that also loved endgame are going to stay or leave for other reasons. Middle Earth love will endure among those who stayed for it.

Yeah, I'm one of those diehards that's pretty embittered about the entire thing, but gonna stay here and ride it out to the end just to see what happens, as I am curious to see what Turbine does next.

That said, I miss the old days where we had a wide berth of group content, and I hadn't run basically everything to the point where I don't want to see it again.

Back when an occasional skirmish was fun, because I hadn't burnt out on those yet.

I long for the days when I can be excited about an expansion that includes six zones and 10+ instances with it.

I doubt we'll ever see another Mines of Moria expansion, as that was the only one that did it right, although RoI came close.

[ertr]

I don't think it's really this so much as whether you'd want to play a single instance (of whatever group-size) rather than waiting for a whole instance-cluster. I know that sometimes as designers we have an 'all or nothing' mentality, which means that if we can't do an entire instance-cluster we don't do any, which may have limited this type of content.

MoL

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but personally I would be just as happy if we got four completely unrelated instances spread out over four different updates, as if we got a single instance cluster containing four instances.
I will also note that I would much rather get a single instance than no instances at all.

[Wanderv]

^^^^^ This a THOUSAND times sir.
The only proof you need of the rapidly declining population is to note that all of the raiding kins are gone.
There were what, 10 or more kins that used to run and complete T2C content on Brandywine? Now there are precisely none, because there is no content in this game for them anymore.

Hardcore raiders are just single digit percentage as was said before. Casual raiding is still here. Population decline is not because of raiders who have nothing to do. EQ2, WoW, Rift have new raid content but decline also fast. Raiders are not center of MMORPG. It's a myth! Decline occurs mostly because of other reasons:
1. New MMORPGs take players. Every year more and more games come to market thinning populations.
2. General decline of MMORPGs. Session games owned MMORPGs unfortunately.
3. General decline of themepark-MMORPGs. This concept is just run out of ideas and players are BORED.
4. Age decline. Lotro is just the old game which attract less and less players.

If you look at the whole picture than you understand how hard situation for Turbine is. They have to run no to stay at the place. No! They have to run just to DECLINE SLOWLY.

[Wanderv]

I think you are reading a different thread.
At the very least, it's a poor attempt at trolling on your part.
But, nice try

I'd hope to. But some ppl here choose to attack dev who talk with us. And then you call my post 'trolling'?
" it's a poor attempt at trolling on your part."

[bucko39]

I'd hope to. But some ppl here choose to attack dev who talk with us. And then you call my post 'trolling'?
" it's a poor attempt at trolling on your part."

At no point did anyone attack MoL. You're being overly dramatic...and yes, you are trolling.

/ignore.

[Snowlock]

Hardcore raiders are just single digit percentage as was said before.

Stop trolling. This kind of rhetoric is just bait to start a fight. Piss off.

[Fadil]

I'm really surprised by how much what I said is offending people.

That is because you make some ludicrous claim that only the small group of end gamers pay for this game and therefor should be listened to..
As if the thousands of players that roleplay, or enjoy the game for the content of quests, storyline etc arent VIP.
I dont believe you have any numbers to back that up. The more so since we keep hearing in this thread how all raiders have left..

I dont believe there is any need for this constant created opposition or rift between casual gamers and end gamers tbh.
I've never seen any casual gamer say: oh god there shouldnt be any raid added to this game.
I'd be perfectly happy with content where both groups could feel satisfied, but in the mean time it would also be nice that those of us that really enjoy the game and look forward to U17 could also write about it without the constant posts/ attacks by haters so to speak.

Do you really think telling raiders to "go to a different game" is a valid solution? LOTRO used to have the best raids in any MMO. Hands down. There were hundreds and hundreds of people who played the game just for that. It would be one thing if LOTRO never had content like that. But it did, and you cannot simply ignore that fact.

I dont ignore that. I would be perfectly fine with another raid like that added and would enjoy it too...
Im not fine with the idea that mmorpgs should only be about end game content, and that the road to get to that endgame becomes
inferior to the endgame content so to speak.
I really hope that will never happen in mmorpgs or they wouldnt be mmorpgs anymore.

The article someone else posted about wow gives a pretty good description of the problems wow faced when they started to cater to
the very vocal minority of so called end gamers who made up no more than maybe 5% of wow's population to begin with.
In the end even that 5% became utterly bored because other then the 2 or 3 nights raiding with your guild there was nothing else left to do.

Btw, my only intention was to say: lotro might not be very strong in end game content, but it has so much more
to offer than just that.
I made the mistake to quit Lotro some time back and played some other mmorpgs in the meantime. Now Im back and I just realize again
what a great mmorpg Lotro really is.

Hey Im looking forward to U17, and I really like EBs, I almost feel like I have to wear protective armor when I post that here.:P

[Snowlock]

I dont believe there is any need for this constant created opposition or rift between casual gamers and end gamers tbh.

I don't think there should be any opposition either. I think in large part it was fomented by the previous CM.

I've never seen any casual gamer say: oh god there shouldnt be any raid added to this game.

No, what they say is that there should be no reward in raiding that isn't available to the casual solo'er as well. Which if effectively the same thing.

[Almagnus1]

Hey Im looking forward to U17, and I really like EBs, I almost feel like I have to wear protective armor when I post that here.:P

If we didn't know what real raids looked like, I think many of us wouldn't mind the BB's.

However, when my captain stops being a captain in an instance, and I'm not riding Slightshot, something is VERY wrong with the game.

[maartena]

To be fair, that ship has sailed. The folks that left over the lack of endgame are long gone. The folks that stayed that also loved endgame are going to stay or leave for other reasons. Middle Earth love will endure among those who stayed for it.

Also, there is no lack of end-game content, just a lack of NEW endgame content.... and that isn't completely true either, there is just a lack of new 12-man (and higher) content.

Currently, there are the following raids at level 100:


The Misty Mountains:
Helegrod: Drake Wing (level 50-100, 12-person)
Helegrod: Spider Wing (level 50-100, 12-person)
Helegrod: Giant Wing (level 50-100, 12-person)
Helegrod: Dragon Wing (level 50-100, 24-person)

Mirkwood:
Barad Guldur (level 65-100, 12-person)

Enedwaith:
Ost Dunhoth (level 65-100, 12-person)

Rohan:

Flight to the Lonely Mountain (level 20-100, 12-person)
The Fires of Smaug (level 20-100, 12-person)
The Battle for Erebor (level 20-100, 12-person)

Epic Battle:
The Deeping Wall (level 10-100, 12-person)

Quick count says 10 raids at the current level cap of 100, 9 of which are "classic" style, 1 is an epic battle. There are also a large number of raids capped at 58, 60, and 75.

What we haven't seen is NEW raids.... but there certainly is no LACK of content.

Now, what I do not know.... is how this relates to other MMORPG games. Is 10 raids a lot? Is it really low? How does it compare to say WoW or Rift or TERA or Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy or SWTOR or whatever other MMORPG is being played today, because I am not playing those....

I'd say the loot tables probably need to be adjusted, since long long range barely give more loot than a relatively short pelargir epic battle.

[Wanderv]

At no point did anyone attack MoL. You're being overly dramatic...and yes, you are trolling.

/ignore.

How about this: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...14#post7469714 ?

How about constant attacks on BB's (which MoL develop too as i know)? And people speak not for themselves but pretending they are 'echoes of majority'. And noone likes BB's because well he and 10 his friends don't like them! Again, NO, it doesn't work that way.

Stop trolling. This kind of rhetoric is just bait to start a fight. Piss off.

I'm thinking of reporting you. Stop say trolling on facts that you don't like.

It's not 'rhetoric', it's information from the Turbine itself. So it's FACT. It reminds me all these pvmp-storms. PVMP-fans thought they were the majority but then ex-dev on other forum said that Moors' dwellers were 7% at their very best time. You may not like it but stop calling facts trolling. It's just silly to deny reality.

[Snowlock]

I'm thinking of reporting you. Stop say trolling on facts that you don't like.

It's not 'rhetoric', it's information from the Turbine itself.

You're just spouting nonsense to fight. Go do it elsewhere. I'm not going to entertain the argument you so desperately wish to have. It's been done to death and it's too easy to shoot down and doesn't belong in this thread. As I said, piss off.

[Wanderv]

Also, there is no lack of end-game content, just a lack of NEW endgame content....

Prepare to be called a troll . That's ok to tell some facts and get accusations of trolling from some people who thought that only their opinion is Real And Very True Truth even if it contradicts reality. People who say something positive about the game are under attack quite often here unfortunately.

[Snowlock]

Prepare to be called a troll .

She's not a troll.

[peachykins]

Now, what I do not know.... is how this relates to other MMORPG games. Is 10 raids a lot? Is it really low? How does it compare to say WoW or Rift or TERA or Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy or SWTOR or whatever other MMORPG is being played today, because I am not playing those....

With WOW's last years expansion I think they got 8 dungeons & 2 raids & then another update with 1 more raid at least.