Update 17.1 Beta & Load test Release Notes - PRELIMINARY AND NON-FINAL - BULLROARER ONLY

[jfdiogddsfsd]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

LOL..
Nerfed already
Cheers guys.

[Tarmros]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

So what will creeps get instead?

[SpicyMacHaggis]

So what will creeps get instead?

Gobnanigans.



(It's the goblin version of hobnanigans)

[willowrod]

Home-based crafting stations. Sheer genius! Thank you.

[YamydeAragon]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

You are welcome. Also when you get a chance, purge the new players forums section, there is already 41 spam messages from the love guru spambot.

[teppic74]

I dunno. They put "PRELIMINARY AND NON-FINAL" in the subject, ask for feedback, and still people scream and cry and call them idiots.

[Spilo]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

This is awesome, thank you for your prompt feedback. As many have said, Creeps need more damage and/or a blanket -incoming healing debuff on all Freeps entering the moors for balanced action.

[Felamid]

since you are tweaking the build...

Turn off autofliipping
Remove flopping
beef up the npcs


Thanks

[TearMaker]

So what will creeps get instead?

You should know by now how anything creep goes....

• Half arsed attempt to make creeps stronger
• freeps QQ and usually creeps QQ too
• Devs react with a nerf instead of tackling the real issue
• creeps QQ because of freep QQ even though they QQ themselves
• everything remains completely unbalanced with swings in either direction
• people get annoyed and dont pvp

It reminds me of that quote from Blackadder goes forth......
Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learned from being in the army,
it's never ignore a QQ! I knew a major: got QQ'd; made the mistake of ignoring the QQ -- he QQ'd it!
Fatal error, because it turned out all along that the soldier who QQ'd him had been QQing a lot of other officers,
who QQ'd their QQ's!
In the end, we had to disband the regiment! Morale totally destroyed... by QQ!

[MonkeyMe]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

I'm really hoping you plan on at least slightly buffing the overall dps of creeps in this case then? Because we all know even though it should be freeps getting nerfed instead of creeps getting buffed, that's clearly not something you guys do. Tbh morale wasn't the route that should have been taken to start with. Certain freep classes need a dps nerf (and heals nerf for that matter). LMs one shotting wargs? Fire RKs (quite literally) melting anything and everything? Beornings that don't die? Come on.....ugh. Adjust freep dps & heals, if you did that there'd be zero need to buff creeps. You guys keep constantly doing the wrong thing. Stop buffing the under powered side and adjust the overpowered one.


Edit: I still say disabling the ability to use 5 slot essence gear in the moors would solve 99% of your issues. Freeps did fine without it imo.

[Giliodor]

Dear Frelorn,

Creeps don't need more morale. They need more damage. Either that, or freep incoming healing needs to be reduced drastically. Just place a -40% incoming healing debuff on every freep entering the Moors and your problem is solved.

[Tarmros]

Dear Frelorn,

Creeps don't need more morale. They need more damage. Either that, or freep incoming healing needs to be reduced drastically. Just place a -40% incoming healing debuff on every freep entering the Moors and your problem is solved.

Well you just got the first bit.

bet you don't get the second.

[lugbur]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

thank you for this. the morale boost as it was, was simply too large. Buffing creep morale in general wont help a huge amount, and will only prolong fights to the point of no one dying(thinking reavers wrath healing a %, and morale pots).

As for a way to buff creeps without a large morale increase, maybe a flat % increase in mitigation and crit defense? as it stands, traiting crit defense as a creep is almost entirely worthless and most creeps have rather poor base crit defense. a small (5% or so perhaps) buff to this would help at least a little, while a small % increase to mitigation would also help.

That plus simply equalising a creeps mitigatons. as seen below on my reaver, my tactical mitigation is 79.5%, shadow 79.5%, while the rest are significantly lower. (before anyone says anything about the gap not being too large, the gap increases the fewer mitigation corruptions you trait. the gap also appears to be larger for physical than tactical)




My fire mitigation with 3 tactical mitigation traits, and the 20% buff from a reavers relenteless, is 69.3%. this along with MOST of the other mitigations are significantly lower than what the tooltip provides as my 'tactical mitigation'. now back when you could trait certain defensive dmg corruption that were type specific, this was understandable. however now it is simply tactical/physical. with the rest being decided by the type of attack a class uses on us. while having ALL my mitigations at 79.5% (even if its not permenant), would be too much, i think equalising these, and giving a slight buff to them would help creeps not be absolutely shreded by certain things like smouldering wrath. obviously wouldnt be a 100% guaranteed survival, but it would go some small way to help balancing things


One last suggestion, that has also been mentioned by others, would be a flat decrease/incoming healing debuff in freep heals when they enter a pvp area. similar to the old champion fervour debuff, perhaps. that would help combat the morale stacking+rather ridiculous heals freep classes can dish out.

[Chodelet]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

What confuses me is this isn't the first time that people have provided constructive and rational feedback. Sure, the forums are awash with terrible unhelpful comments of people simply complaining X is OP, Y is UP, I'm going to quit, and generally QQing. However, plenty of people have spent plenty of time providing well thought out, carefully considered suggestions that could improve the game.

Yet, it seems like every update we make it like we're reinventing the wheel and having to figure things out from scratch. Even without any of the constructive comments in this thread it should've been obvious that these PVP changes weren't well-conceived and that they'd be poorly received. Why implement changes like this in the first place?

Moreover, I can't recall any quality criticism in this thread suggesting, simply, don't boost Creep morale as much and things will be fine. Suggestions that Creep morale shouldn't be boosted were necessary companions to other comments, like increasing Creep DPS, reducing the outgoing heals of Freeps, and changing the way some of the skills work Freepside. You're indicating that "we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in its place," but what other necessary companion suggestions will be implemented?

Otherwise, it really is

LOL..
Nerfed already
Cheers guys.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

Please, please don't let this simply be an instant reaction to the criticism to the reduction in the morale pool. The morale increase may have been over the top, but without it, the dps increase is simply not enough for creeps to equal freeps (nor indeed are the heals, if we consider the bolster courage spam which minis are capable of). If you're going to retcon this change, make sure to think it through first, rather than making it a knee jerk reaction to some of the opinions on this, and other, threads.

[lugbur]

Please, please don't let this simply be an instant reaction to the criticism to the reduction in the morale pool. The morale increase may have been over the top, but without it, the dps increase is simply not enough for creeps to equal freeps (nor indeed are the heals, if we consider the bolster courage spam which minis are capable of). If you're going to retcon this change, make sure to think it through first, rather than making it a knee jerk reaction to some of the opinions on this, and other, threads.

one of the things you have to understand is, when things are relatively 'balanced' between freeps and creeps, it ends up as a complete gv camp or freeps just dont come out. pre-u10 RoR being an example i cna think of off the top of my head. so while things will never be entirely balanced, that isnt necessarily a bad thing, as long as the gap isnt too large

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

one of the things you have to understand is, when things are relatively 'balanced' between freeps and creeps, it ends up as a complete gv camp or freeps just dont come out. pre-u10 RoR being an example i cna think of off the top of my head. so while things will never be entirely balanced, that isnt necessarily a bad thing, as long as the gap isnt too large

That's a fair point - but I'm not sure the place we're at as of U17 (before 17.1) is one where the gap isn't 'too large' - in some cases, when we consider the healing capabilities of a WL vs a minstrel, for example, the gap has never been larger, and the same can be said for dps (fire RKs, for instance).

[Riddim The Legend]

thank you for this. the morale boost as it was, was simply too large. Buffing creep morale in general wont help a huge amount, and will only prolong fights to the point of no one dying(thinking reavers wrath healing a %, and morale pots).

As for a way to buff creeps without a large morale increase, maybe a flat % increase in mitigation and crit defense? as it stands, traiting crit defense as a creep is almost entirely worthless and most creeps have rather poor base crit defense. a small (5% or so perhaps) buff to this would help at least a little, while a small % increase to mitigation would also help.

That plus simply equalising a creeps mitigatons. as seen below on my reaver, my tactical mitigation is 79.5%, shadow 79.5%, while the rest are significantly lower. (before anyone says anything about the gap not being too large, the gap increases the fewer mitigation corruptions you trait. the gap also appears to be larger for physical than tactical)




My fire mitigation with 3 tactical mitigation traits, and the 20% buff from a reavers relenteless, is 69.3%. this along with MOST of the other mitigations are significantly lower than what the tooltip provides as my 'tactical mitigation'. now back when you could trait certain defensive dmg corruption that were type specific, this was understandable. however now it is simply tactical/physical. with the rest being decided by the type of attack a class uses on us. while having ALL my mitigations at 79.5% (even if its not permenant), would be too much, i think equalising these, and giving a slight buff to them would help creeps not be absolutely shreded by certain things like smouldering wrath. obviously wouldnt be a 100% guaranteed survival, but it would go some small way to help balancing things


One last suggestion, that has also been mentioned by others, would be a flat decrease/incoming healing debuff in freep heals when they enter a pvp area. similar to the old champion fervour debuff, perhaps. that would help combat the morale stacking+rather ridiculous heals freep classes can dish out.

I agree, increasing creep damage would kill any 1v1, and even if turbine said that lotro pvp is based around group fights many people like spars or open field 1v1. So slightly increased corruptions or stats would help creeps a little without making other things worse. Same goes with freep healing, nerf their healing a little to make group fights more enjoyable.

Maybe these changes would help both sides and people wouldn't call out as much.

@Frelorn, thank you for listening sir

[Tarmros]

Gobnanigans.



(It's the goblin version of hobnanigans)

Exactly, sweet FA.

Quite how turbine can think it's a good idea to double creep morale on Monday afternoon and a terrrible idea the same evening is beyond me.

It shows that no thought goes into these changes.

We are now left with what is effectively no change, a meaningless dps increase and a meaningless morale increase. Jury's out on the healing but doubtless that will be nerfed before live.

Come on Turbine creeps need substantial increase in mits and dps, how hard is it?

[Tarod]

PvMP changes:

• Creep morale pools have been increased.
• Creep healing magnitude has been increased.
• The length of the stun on the Warleader skill Shield Bash has been increased to 10 seconds.
  The damage on the following Creep skills have been increased:

Reaver -

• Sudden Strikes
• Jagged Cut
• Lacerate

Weaver -

• Piercing Attack
• Tainted Kiss
• Lethal Kiss

Blackarrow -

• Screaming Shafts
• Flaming Arrow
• Death Blossom

Warleader -

• Intimidating Shout
• Black Speech
• Menacing Roar

Warg -

• Bestial Claws
• Sudden Maul
• Swipe

Defiler -

• Fire Gourd
• Headbreaker
• Plague Gourd

[/QUOTE]

Are you fu@$^#* kidding me? This is complete BS.

[lugbur]

PvMP changes:

• Creep morale pools have been increased.
• Creep healing magnitude has been increased.
• The length of the stun on the Warleader skill Shield Bash has been increased to 10 seconds.
  The damage on the following Creep skills have been increased:

Reaver -

• Sudden Strikes
• Jagged Cut
• Lacerate

Weaver -

• Piercing Attack
• Tainted Kiss
• Lethal Kiss

Blackarrow -

• Screaming Shafts
• Flaming Arrow
• Death Blossom

Warleader -

• Intimidating Shout
• Black Speech
• Menacing Roar

Warg -

• Bestial Claws
• Sudden Maul
• Swipe

Defiler -

• Fire Gourd
• Headbreaker
• Plague Gourd

Are you fu@$^#* kidding me? This is complete BS.

useful feedback

[Mar-Evayave]

Willem Whisker

Oooh! See I knew I should have been keeping up on my BB quests but I keep forgetting about them. xD

[UwS-Harledir]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults.

That coming from a person that only ignores feedback and quacks about the wording in one sentence? The foobar is strong with this one....

Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

So once again we are left with a half-arsed update - what a surprise.
https://www.facebook.com/CollegeHumo...3363569797807/

[Oket]

I really appreciate how much Turbine cares about the lives of others. By increasing morale pools and healing probably no one will ever die again in the moors. Not only will this stop all of the people who complain about dying in pvp zones but it will also mean that everyone can enjoy endless RvR action because no one will ever wipe. Thank you Turbine!

#CreepLivesMatter
#FreepLivesMatter

[grenifk]

Thanks everyone who have given us constructive, rational feedback without personal attacks or insults. Based on the feedback that we have seen and requested from Bullroarer last night, we will be reducing the morale pool increase that was put in place. There will still be a health increase but it will be significantly less than what was seen and tested yesterday.

Sorry Frelorn but this statement is insult to us (I do not support any insult whatsoever), since a you've been given a lot of feedback here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...7-PvMP-Balance where you even stated that you're reading it, and now you come here with "thanks for your constructive feedback about our poor design".

If you want constructive feedback here it goes:

Freep HEALING is too potent compared to creeps. For this you have 3 options to fix it: a) increase our DPS drastically (not reccomanded), b) introduce healing debuff to freeps when they enter pvp area (reccomanded), c) a mix of a) and b) (also reccomanded).

You need to realise that creeps need some means of killing 2 or more freep healers in raids (since every second freep can now be main healer - not that i care, just give us some means to kill them).

A minor thing that could really be adjusted would be to make silences have affect on beorings (in bear form) since they're almost unkillable due to lack of workable CC skills on them. 1 would also be to make skills like rabid bite have affect on them (increasing cost of wrath - since it's so easily built).


You can give us even 400k hp, but creeps will still be inferior to freeps, only thing changing will be the duration of combat.