Why is Eye Rake still not fixed?

[LEGENDofALL]

It's absolutely disgusting.

Eye Rake on a three second cooldown is something you can strategize around, yes- no one is attempting to deny that. That being said, you can also strategize around Fire Shield, HIPs/Sprinting warging, and Blue line WL spamming Loremasters- just because you can strategize around them doesn't mean they aren't broken. Too many people in the Moors are so used to seeing wildly broken things like Wardens, Guardians, and Spiders that they don't recognize the significance of other issues.

I agree theres a lot of stuff broken but Blueline is a waste of time on a LM , its good for survival and that's about it because my non combat dog hits harder and for griefing

[Spilo]

I agree theres a lot of stuff broken but Blueline is a waste of time on a LM , its good for survival and that's about it because my non combat dog hits harder and for griefing

I do agree that it's less broken than it used to be. The increased DPS and morale pools for Creeps have tipped the scales away from Blue-Line effectiveness for the most part, although the additional trait points have made it more effective.

[BBChild]

... In a 1v1 situation so they basically always can reach u. They just start with a 10 sec immunity pot before they even attack.
They just need to slow during that first 10 sec and u kinda cant kite them. Roots, unless u count cracked earth 1 too, are in yellow line.

And only interrupt every 3 sec... that is, combined with flea bitten and a lot of fears/silences and circle dancing so if the lm does not get interrupted is not facing the target, plenty to kill 95% of the lms...since I cba to run max buffed with 2 waterlore stacks all the time...

"No... just no..." is basically my response, lol. If both players are equally skilled in a Warg vs. Lore-Master fight, the Warg should never win. A Warg stands a chance in (no-heal) spars because of all that you've mentioned, but the same can't really be said for an open-map scenario when heals and larger skills are brought into the picture.
If Lore-Masters are struggling these days, I would credit it to them not having their gear and LIs fully updated to remain competitive (which I fully understand; the grind is tremendous and the "new" content is overly redundant)... Not to a 3-second-cooldown on Eye Gouge.
I don't like to point fingers at a person's skill level to support arguments, but... I mean, really... The way you say it gives off the impression makes it sound like some tremendously impossible uphill battle. It simply isn't. It can be a matched battle, but not an impossible one. Not in the hands of a capable Lore-Master.

Eye Rake on a three second cooldown is something you can strategize around, yes- no one is attempting to deny that. That being said, you can also strategize around Fire Shield, HIPs/Sprinting warging, and Blue line WL spamming Loremasters- just because you can strategize around them doesn't mean they aren't broken. Too many people in the Moors are so used to seeing wildly broken things like Wardens, Guardians, and Spiders that they don't recognize the significance of other issues.

I do 100% agree with this, though.

[Haruno]

"No... just no..." is basically my response, lol. If both players are equally skilled in a Warg vs. Lore-Master fight, the Warg should never win. A Warg stands a chance in (no-heal) spars because of all that you've mentioned, but the same can't really be said for an open-map scenario when heals and larger skills are brought into the picture.
If Lore-Masters are struggling these days, I would credit it to them not having their gear and LIs fully updated to remain competitive (which I fully understand; the grind is tremendous and the "new" content is overly redundant)... Not to a 3-second-cooldown on Eye Gouge.
I don't like to point fingers at a person's skill level to support arguments, but... I mean, really... The way you say it gives off the impression makes it sound like some tremendously impossible uphill battle. It simply isn't. It can be a matched battle, but not an impossible one. Not in the hands of a capable Lore-Master.



I do 100% agree with this, though.

I've done my share of soloing wargs the past 8 years, point is that u could do it decently without touching the magic wotc or waterlore button at all.
I don't have much trouble soloing good wargs (that is when im not afk on auto run) though it sometimes means I got to pop a lot more than I would like to admit.
It's just that I have an easier time as an average warg rank 7 dancing and interrupting and ccing around average lms than fighting good wargs on my decent lm (yes im max geared and r14).

pvp is always a rock paper shotgun story with some classes strong vs other classes like wargs are good vs lms but not that good vs champs or something.
(and there are the shotguns that can basically faceroll anything 1v1 like a beorning)

Maybe im just being rusty, maybe Im just used to being more op (like u13) but I do think if you play a warg rly well u can reduce the amount of induction skills a lm will cast in a 1v1 by like 70%
(with 100% being without interrupts, silence, flea bitten, fear, (and stun if u can prevent si being casted that 2 sec its off cd)). Which is, well lets say, annoying at least:P
I'd rather get dpsed more than that chain cc but hey, that's just my humble opinion.

Turbine always tries to solve OPness by making the opposite side stronger, so i'd rather see a good nerf for once in lotro rather than another round of boosts
(not wargs, mainly freep healers and the rest that's is known to be OP for a while I'm sure there are plenty of lists of that on the forum already)

[Spilo]

A few things:

I've done my share of soloing wargs the past 8 years, point is that u could do it decently without touching the magic wotc or waterlore button at all.
I don't have much trouble soloing good wargs (that is when im not afk on auto run) though it sometimes means I got to pop a lot more than I would like to admit.
It's just that I have an easier time as an average warg rank 7 dancing and interrupting and ccing around average lms than fighting good wargs on my decent lm (yes im max geared and r14).

Don't just blame eye gouge here. Blame Turbine buffing Bestial Claws. People don't realize how the significance that so much of Warg Damage is tied up into 1, 1 second cooldown skill.

Maybe im just being rusty, maybe Im just used to being more op (like u13) but I do think if you play a warg rly well u can reduce the amount of induction skills a lm will cast in a 1v1 by like 70%
(with 100% being without interrupts, silence, flea bitten, fear, (and stun if u can prevent si being casted that 2 sec its off cd)). Which is, well lets say, annoying at least:P
I'd rather get dpsed more than that chain cc but hey, that's just my humble opinion.

Turbine always tries to solve OPness by making the opposite side stronger, so i'd rather see a good nerf for once in lotro rather than another round of boosts
(not wargs, mainly freep healers and the rest that's is known to be OP for a while I'm sure there are plenty of lists of that on the forum already)

Wargs can increase induction time by 50%, and attack duration by 25% (assuming in Shadow). Also, with Fleas, SI should only be off for (maybe) 0.5-1 second- there is no offtime for it without Attack Duration debuffs.

I do agree. Creeps don't need buffs, Turbine needs to individually address certain broken classes and broken mechanics- even one per class would be a significant improvement.

[Haruno]

A few things:



Don't just blame eye gouge here. Blame Turbine buffing Bestial Claws. People don't realize how the significance that so much of Warg Damage is tied up into 1, 1 second cooldown skill.


Wargs can increase induction time by 50%, and attack duration by 25% (assuming in Shadow). Also, with Fleas, SI should only be off for (maybe) 0.5-1 second- there is no offtime for it without Attack Duration debuffs.

I do agree. Creeps don't need buffs, Turbine needs to individually address certain broken classes and broken mechanics- even one per class would be a significant improvement.

I don't blame eye gouge in particular, its just the combination of skills, the combination of a good induction time debuff + interrupts + cc that makes wargs the arch enemy of loremasters.
I do think wargs need that bestial claws dmg boost to out dps the freep (self) healing (or rather I think they should nerf the freep self healing instead of giving wargs more dmg).

If you would just compare how easy it is to kill.... lets say... goldy solo now compared to lvl 50 you rly wonder what went wrong with scaling.

[Spilo]

I don't blame eye gouge in particular, its just the combination of skills, the combination of a good induction time debuff + interrupts + cc that makes wargs the arch enemy of loremasters.
I do think wargs need that bestial claws dmg boost to out dps the freep (self) healing (or rather I think they should nerf the freep self healing instead of giving wargs more dmg).

If you would just compare how easy it is to kill.... lets say... goldy solo now compared to lvl 50 you rly wonder what went wrong with scaling.

I meant in terms of re-assinging Bestial Claws damage to other skills.

[Nourleaf]

Sorry can't stop myself typing: your are still going on with eye-gouge? Played the game lately?

- Cpt. pets running after stealthed wargs
- NPC's running after stealthed wargs
- Some freeps running around with bugs that let them see stealthed wargs
- Skills not going of for any class freep/creep
- Burning Ember bug
- Frozen whatever bug
- glitch close to HOP where you just by riding on your horse die (how old is the map?)
- all the dots/stun/mega-heals autospam from bree to ettens, do they actually have to be on that map to dot a complete craid up? Can't think anyone would be able to see a bug there, with all this overload of dots.
...

And you are crying about one single skill that is inconvenient with your playstyles?

If I haven't said it before: if you just want to slaughter some wargs go and do some deeds in Eregion or wherever there are som warg npc, they don't cheat by using eye-gouge. But don't enter the moors, please.

thank you.

[LEGENDofALL]

Sorry can't stop myself typing: your are still going on with eye-gouge? Played the game lately?

- Cpt. pets running after stealthed wargs
- NPC's running after stealthed wargs
- Some freeps running around with bugs that let them see stealthed wargs
- Skills not going of for any class freep/creep
- Burning Ember bug
- Frozen whatever bug
- glitch close to HOP where you just by riding on your horse die (how old is the map?)
- all the dots/stun/mega-heals autospam from bree to ettens, do they actually have to be on that map to dot a complete craid up? Can't think anyone would be able to see a bug there, with all this overload of dots.
...

And you are crying about one single skill that is inconvenient with your playstyles?


If I haven't said it before: if you just want to slaughter some wargs go and do some deeds in Eregion or wherever there are som warg npc, they don't cheat by using eye-gouge. But don't enter the moors, please.

thank you.

1. Spider pet running after steathed burg
2. Creep npcs running after stealthed burg
3. ba able to still attack a stealthed burg after hips
4. Defiler debuff bug on freep
5. Spider web stuck on freep

So by your logic because it's just one skill with broken mechanics we should just ignore it? Then I can say the same thing about warden bleeds, beorn heal etc.....it's just one skill so don't worry about it.

[LEGENDofALL]

I don't blame eye gouge in particular, its just the combination of skills, the combination of a good induction time debuff + interrupts + cc that makes wargs the arch enemy of loremasters.
I do think wargs need that bestial claws dmg boost to out dps the freep (self) healing (or rather I think they should nerf the freep self healing instead of giving wargs more dmg).

If you would just compare how easy it is to kill.... lets say... goldy solo now compared to lvl 50 you rly wonder what went wrong with scaling.

Scaling what scaling....... Solo creeps and freeps can flip keeps unlike years ago......turbine doesn't know the meaning of scaling or fixing issues that you agree or disagree with.

[Haruno]

Scaling what scaling....... Solo creeps and freeps can flip keeps unlike years ago......turbine doesn't know the meaning of scaling or fixing issues that you agree or disagree with.

True, if u ask me, Turbine has been trying to please the casual players too much by making everything available to solo daily farms (a MMORPG wide trend you see coming around in 2011+).
But that's just the top of the iceberg. Trying to give hints for a fix cause its too late and they wont do it anyway, I'm merely reminding you of how it was and could have been

The pet bug is something that has been around like forever I rather see it as Turbine's lack of interest of inability to fix it rather than that it hasn't been noted enough yet.

[siipperi]

I don't blame eye gouge in particular, its just the combination of skills, the combination of a good induction time debuff + interrupts + cc that makes wargs the arch enemy of loremasters.
I do think wargs need that bestial claws dmg boost to out dps the freep (self) healing (or rather I think they should nerf the freep self healing instead of giving wargs more dmg).

If you would just compare how easy it is to kill.... lets say... goldy solo now compared to lvl 50 you rly wonder what went wrong with scaling.

Claws boost was stupid thing to do. You already crit it every time so it easily makes so big % of your damage it's just broken in comparison with other skills. It should be strippen down and damage on that skill should be distributed between other skills. Now even the worst warg can put up decent damage if they realize to use claws every time its off cd... Ofc theres wargs who use half of their rotation full of skills which do no damage and dont use claws at all then they come cry on forums how bad their class is...

[Haruno]

Claws boost was stupid thing to do. You already crit it every time so it easily makes so big % of your damage it's just broken in comparison with other skills. It should be strippen down and damage on that skill should be distributed between other skills. Now even the worst warg can put up decent damage if they realize to use claws every time its off cd... Ofc theres wargs who use half of their rotation full of skills which do no damage and dont use claws at all then they come cry on forums how bad their class is...

you could say the same of some lms that just spam BE/wizards fire and waterlore and si, completely ignoring debuffs sticky gourd/wizards fire staff strike (for that juicy red line bonus and a stun) lotrd etc

or blue minstrels spamming improved bolster courage

[Nourleaf]

1. Spider pet running after steathed burg
2. Creep npcs running after stealthed burg
3. ba able to still attack a stealthed burg after hips
4. Defiler debuff bug on freep
5. Spider web stuck on freep

So by your logic because it's just one skill with broken mechanics we should just ignore it? Then I can say the same thing about warden bleeds, beorn heal etc.....it's just one skill so don't worry about it.

You see, you got alot more bugs to the list and there are probably more. But all the talking is about a skill which has a low cooldown time, not a bug.

The bleeds from different classes are no bug either, but I doubt it's possible to see a bug there, because there are so many.

If they actually try to improve the game, they should start with bugs and the lag, I don't even care about balance right now.

[JustAnotherElf]

True, if u ask me, Turbine has been trying to please the casual players too much by making everything available to solo daily farms (a MMORPG wide trend you see coming around in 2011+).
But that's just the top of the iceberg. Trying to give hints for a fix cause its too late and they wont do it anyway, I'm merely reminding you of how it was and could have been

The pet bug is something that has been around like forever I rather see it as Turbine's lack of interest of inability to fix it rather than that it hasn't been noted enough yet.

Why do people still assume it is a bug? I find it rather logical that an animal is able to track me down with more ease than his master. I am not an RP person but nor could I give a rat's ### about a pet following me. Most of the times they save my life with a KB heal off it

In any case, LMs are the only ones that have anything to say about regarding ER interrupt. The rest of the classes, let's admit it are not really affected by it and before someone will mention hunters let's just agree they have bigger issues than that.

This thread basically is a cry for help from Lore-Masters (no offence intended). With the same result a warg can make a thread where he or she makes a case for disabling guardian 40m shout that takes all wargs out of stealth. It is totally game breaking, given a low CD rate, ignoring walls and disabling the most basic of the mechanics of the warg class. Imagine a WL's shout having 20m radius, the remaining 2-3 burgs that still run around pretending to fight would quit the game that very day.

[LEGENDofALL]

you could say the same of some lms that just spam BE/wizards fire and waterlore and si, completely ignoring debuffs sticky gourd/wizards fire staff strike (for that juicy red line bonus and a stun) lotrd etc

or blue minstrels spamming improved bolster courage

BE/Wizards fire doesn't have the same effect it had before LI changes. Firstly the pulse is not as long and the damage is not the same and as for waterlore/SI both have had in the past some tweaking to them as in duration on one and the ability for each waterlore to crit.


BTW besides SI all those are induction based skills unlike Eye rake and no of them are a interruption on a 3 second CD.

[LEGENDofALL]

You see, you got alot more bugs to the list and there are probably more. But all the talking is about a skill which has a low cooldown time, not a bug.

The bleeds from different classes are no bug either, but I doubt it's possible to see a bug there, because there are so many.

If they actually try to improve the game, they should start with bugs and the lag, I don't even care about balance right now.

The follow bug has been from day one and that wont get changed and yes I agree Lag first before all because that really is the kill all to a game from my point of view.

[LEGENDofALL]

Why do people still assume it is a bug? I find it rather logical that an animal is able to track me down with more ease than his master. I am not an RP person but nor could I give a rat's ### about a pet following me. Most of the times they save my life with a KB heal off it

In any case, LMs are the only ones that have anything to say about regarding ER interrupt. The rest of the classes, let's admit it are not really affected by it and before someone will mention hunters let's just agree they have bigger issues than that.

This thread basically is a cry for help from Lore-Masters (no offence intended). With the same result a warg can make a thread where he or she makes a case for disabling guardian 40m shout that takes all wargs out of stealth. It is totally game breaking, given a low CD rate, ignoring walls and disabling the most basic of the mechanics of the warg class. Imagine a WL's shout having 20m radius, the remaining 2-3 burgs that still run around pretending to fight would quit the game that very day.

first of I'm a LM and as for wargs bothering me they don't because I'm looking at one skill that's the topic and how it is or isn't working as intended and how its CD on the interrupt is in my view and others broken. You don't base a skill broken on what class it affects but the overall affect and it can affect classes with inductions.


As for the pet follow it is a bug, has been a bug and will continue to be a bug that turbine knows about but really hasn't given any attention to it and I don't think at this point they care.

[grenifk]

first of I'm a LM and as for wargs bothering me they don't because I'm looking at one skill that's the topic and how it is or isn't working as intended and how its CD on the interrupt is in my view and others broken. You don't base a skill broken on what class it affects but the overall affect and it can affect classes with inductions.


As for the pet follow it is a bug, has been a bug and will continue to be a bug that turbine knows about but really hasn't given any attention to it and I don't think at this point they care.

Nevertheless what he said is 100% true. The only classes affected are LM and hunt. Other induction classes do not suffer as greatly as these 2. Furthermore if we take a step further and think about group vs group fights, warg will not be consantly able to be on LM (even thought it would be stupid to be since following rat or harrasing healers is better job suited for warg), moreover a warg will run out of hp soon enough and even for those "insane defiler hots" it will be hard to keep it alive.

In 1v1 situation it would be a bit different, but then again combination of wl and cc should keep any decent Lm alive.

Then should normally play warg to use ER every 3 secs to increase DPS to maximum output which means not every hit will break induction. The other possible way is to use it to interupt the enemy which will lower dps significantly.

Don't get me wrong, ER should have an internal cd on interupt or longer cd, but IMO there are more urgent things that need devs time (e.g. minies BC spam if we're looking skill-wise, or overal healing output of all classes).

[LEGENDofALL]

Nevertheless what he said is 100% true. The only classes affected are LM and hunt. Other induction classes do not suffer as greatly as these 2. Furthermore if we take a step further and think about group vs group fights, warg will not be consantly able to be on LM (even thought it would be stupid to be since following rat or harrasing healers is better job suited for warg), moreover a warg will run out of hp soon enough and even for those "insane defiler hots" it will be hard to keep it alive.

In 1v1 situation it would be a bit different, but then again combination of wl and cc should keep any decent Lm alive.

Then should normally play warg to use ER every 3 secs to increase DPS to maximum output which means not every hit will break induction. The other possible way is to use it to interupt the enemy which will lower dps significantly.

Don't get me wrong, ER should have an internal cd on interupt or longer cd, but IMO there are more urgent things that need devs time (e.g. minies BC spam if we're looking skill-wise, or overal healing output of all classes).

So if they gave me my silence of WL's back and gave me a 3 second interrupt or better yet a 10 second stun to lock down defilers you'd be cool with that?

Sorry a 3 sec interrupt affects all classes that has a induction skill(please show me a Redline RK not getting interrupted by a warg)

[JustAnotherElf]

So if they gave me my silence of WL's back and gave me a 3 second interrupt or better yet a 10 second stun to lock down defilers you'd be cool with that?

Sorry a 3 sec interrupt affects all classes that has a induction skill(please show me a Redline RK not getting interrupted by a warg)

This is turning into a petty squabble over something totally insignificant on a vast broken landscape of terrible design of the game.

Red RKs have a skill named Smouldering wrath that can literally be cast every 10-15 seconds and it bypasses all obstacles, outlasts almost any concievable range that can be put between the target and the caster and cannot be interrupted (doh!) so are we really going to resort to describing every single skill eye rake may or may not affect?

Once again I point out to you the fact that if you ask 10 veteran wargs, 9 will say they do not even care whether ER has an interrupt or not. Interrupt is at a point where it is literally useless at the moment so yes, let us all fill 10 pages of nonsense regarding an aspect of a skill that has absolutely no weight, maybe then Turbine will spend that 15minutes of their allocated time towards PvMP development and fix a priblem that is not even a problem for 90% of the player base.

Go tell that heart breaking 3sec interrupt story to a beorning, guard, champ, cappy, burg, mini or an RK (a yellow one, I must clarify!!! God forbid mentioning red RK that can take away half to 1/3rd of morale using one bloody button) , I am sure you will find a shoulder to cry on eventally...

I am sorry if it seems as if I am coming across as being rude, but at some point enough is enough. Time to look at the facts and stop the cherry picking to prove your point.

[Haruno]

. Interrupt is at a point where it is literally useless at the moment

That totally depends in which situations and which classes u use it on, as has been stated in the last 2 pages

[grenifk]

So if they gave me my silence of WL's back and gave me a 3 second interrupt or better yet a 10 second stun to lock down defilers you'd be cool with that?

Sorry a 3 sec interrupt affects all classes that has a induction skill(please show me a Redline RK not getting interrupted by a warg)

Fyi red rk gets a buff (-30 / 40% induction duration) that is easily kept up most of the time, making the longest induction cca 1.5s.
Well anotherlef just told you the sittuation. You're just crying now because you have hard time against wargs (i bet a warg pack killed you lel). If you're comparing lag master who mostly contibutes with lag and aoe damage with main healer of the other side you're making yourself a joke. Let me tell you again, I get it interrupt is a bit on low cd, but by no means should ER be upmost priority of devs to fix.

If everybody cried about 1 skill that "one" class has and completly negates that said player rotation we'd be flooding forum with nonsense. Let me remind you; you're playing Lotro, a game where pvmp is completly neglected by devs.

Btw if you wanna start flooding forums with bs i can help you.

Beorns don't have power mechanism and completly negates many debuffs that creeps could use to slow it down. Wee weee. Your turn, cry about another skill as well, it will definetly catch devs eyes.

[siipperi]

Fyi red rk gets a buff (-30 / 40% induction duration) that is easily kept up most of the time, making the longest induction cca 1.5s.
Well anotherlef just told you the sittuation. You're just crying now because you have hard time against wargs (i bet a warg pack killed you lel). If you're comparing lag master who mostly contibutes with lag and aoe damage with main healer of the other side you're making yourself a joke. Let me tell you again, I get it interrupt is a bit on low cd, but by no means should ER be upmost priority of devs to fix.

If everybody cried about 1 skill that "one" class has and completly negates that said player rotation we'd be flooding forum with nonsense. Let me remind you; you're playing Lotro, a game where pvmp is completly neglected by devs.

Btw if you wanna start flooding forums with bs i can help you.

Beorns don't have power mechanism and completly negates many debuffs that creeps could use to slow it down. Wee weee. Your turn, cry about another skill as well, it will definetly catch devs eyes.

So in nutshell you have no idea what you talking about.

[JustAnotherElf]

That totally depends in which situations and which classes u use it on, as has been stated in the last 2 pages

Haruno if you quote, quote the whole thing or at least finish reading what other people write. Do not force my hand describing all three trait trees of all classes and implications of interrupt on each and every one of them.