Still as death being barred from use

[Drawbar]

Hey guys,

I just noticed that our flop is greayed out and not usable during several final boss fights. Is this wai or just a workaround to fix something?
On an other note, how do you guys think about barring some skills during these fight?
As for me, I don't like it at all tbh! It's a general skill and should be usable in any area including final boss areas.

[DJ_JD]

Its pretty silly in my opinion. I've always assumed it was implemented to prevent RC-esque farming.

But, they took away all our agro dropping skills and left us only with Still as Death. (Which I've vocally said is ridiculous to begin with). It should be allowed to be used within combat at all times as far as I'm concerned.

[infinitewhimsy]

Does it matter? The only skill you need is BC.

[NeoBasilisk]

Does it matter? The only skill you need is BC.

If your tank isn't great, it can prevent a wipe.

[siipperi]

If your tank isn't great, it can prevent a wipe.

You can just heal through it, good minstrel will survive 6k dps targeted to him as long as he cares to heal.

[Mercho]

Its pretty silly in my opinion. I've always assumed it was implemented to prevent RC-esque farming.

But, they took away all our agro dropping skills and left us only with Still as Death. (Which I've vocally said is ridiculous to begin with). It should be allowed to be used within combat at all times as far as I'm concerned.

My initial thought was it added to prevent some type of abuse, but they added it to the last boss of DoS also.

[Drawbar]

Well, it's not only about agro/healing or whatever... Whén a whipe happens, a simple flop to reset and rez the bunch, saves walking time etc.
It's just a skill, now it looks like some exploit or so..

[LEGENDofALL]

So let me get this straight........They barred a skill from being used that you could exploit/save time on a wipe etc.....and you think its wrong? I'm sorry but a good minny with todays easy raids should have no problem healing through it!

[Beaniemooch]

You can just heal through it, good minstrel will survive 6k dps targeted to him as long as he cares to heal.

6k dps isn't the issue by itself, the issue is also when it's higher than that or we have to be moving and ranged mobs are all targeting us. I think it's stupid that we're given a skill and not allowed to use it. It has nothing to do with exploiting - they took away all of our threat reducing skills and legacies and left us with Still as death. Then they took that. Idiotic. Asinine. If you want to grey it out, give us back our threat reduction.

[Familiarity]

I know there's lute strings but I probably haven't used those since SoA days for threat reduction and the one fight I struggle with the most in the new content is Blood of the Serpent when it comes to waiting on the tank to grab threat. Admittedly my groups typically do the fight without warsteed and as such suffer with trying to attack or get the aggro of a bunch of ranged NPCs. This is the added difficulty when I'm unable to reduce threat for the healing output needed to keep the group alive as well as myself. If a tank can't get them quickly enough with an ill-timed stun it's a wipe.

Seems inconsistent with the alteration of feign in new instances compared to old ones that it has been used to skip or reset fights (Ruined City the one that comes to mind the most). It wouldn't hurt if we take a look at threat reduction in the form of consumables again like lute strings but I doubt that will be upgraded along with instruments anytime soon.

[Drawbar]

I think it's stupid that we're given a skill and not allowed to use it.

This is exactly what I mean Beanie..
Basicly the same as "Hey Guardian, all fine with your challenge but you can't use it in this part of the instance".

[Drawbar]

Right, necro or not, I still want an answer from a blue name... It's getting very very annoying not able to flop at bosses..
Temporary or definitely? Pls answer

[LEGENDofALL]

Right, necro or not, I still want an answer from a blue name... It's getting very very annoying not able to flop at bosses..
Temporary or definitely? Pls answer

Well good luck getting a response but id put money on it having something to do with bugging it out or cheating.

[Drawbar]

Well good luck getting a response but id put money on it having something to do with bugging it out or cheating.

I dont care what the reason is tbh.. If it's a bug or cheat, they need to fix that, not take away a skill...

[LEGENDofALL]

I dont care what the reason is tbh.. If it's a bug or cheat, they need to fix that, not take away a skill...

Well they're never in a hurry to fix anything so you'll have to live with it for now plus honestly lets be real, nothing in this game raid wise requires you to have to flop.

[Mercho]

Right, necro or not, I still want an answer from a blue name... It's getting very very annoying not able to flop at bosses..
Temporary or definitely? Pls answer

I'd love to hear a response from a dev about the flop nerf.

The skill is now greyed out in sections of all 3 boss areas in RC.

[infinitewhimsy]

I'd love to hear a response from a dev about the flop nerf.

The skill is now greyed out in sections of all 3 boss areas in RC.

The best part is it's still being exploited.

[Harla]

The basic answer is:

Some people used forced de-target skills, such as flop and hips, to exploit instances and cheap out large portions of them, or even cheat through boss fights entirely. Turbine's response was to disable those skills that were the biggest or most common lynch-pin to the exploits, from being used i those locations. As a result, the rest of us are now no longer allowed to use those skills for the reasons and in the manners that they were originally intended to be used, in perfectly legitimate circumstances.

This is why we can't have nice things.

This is why Igash lost his fancy throne,

This is why some amusing or technically impressive visual effects have been cut out of some boss fights in the past, and can now no longer be seen.

Don't exploit instances, kids.



On the flip side, if turbine are wondering why there has been a monumental increase in the amount of instance exploiting going on, and why more and more people are dedicating themselves to finding ways to skip through your newest content - It's because of the way it's designed. the amount of repetition needed,coupled with how long you've made various parts of the instances or fights take is precisely what is driving more and more players to look for ways to skip it. If each minor pull takes three or four minutes just by virtue of the creature morale totals and other ancillary effects, and you have a dozen or more of those pulls in an instance... and Virtually Nothing Else, people are not going to be interested in repeating it a dozen or more times, and they will inevitably look for ways to skip what parts of it they can.

Both sides share a portion of the blame on this, but since no amount of community calling will stop people from being people, turbine are the only ones with any real power to fix the issue.

[Drawbar]

snip

Or they just accept ppl always find ways to do things faster/skip things.. But that's a different discussion.
As for a fix, I'm ok if they keep it this way BUT give minstrels an extra skill then. One where we drop to the bottom of the agro order. Not complete out of agro so nothing resets, just, let's say, half the agro of the one lowest on the list.
Or a skill where we drop half of our agro to the fs member targetted or something.
Give it the cd from still as death and give the last one a fixed longer cd.

[Nogen]

Dear Community,


I am very happy to see this brought up on the official forums. It is a disgraceful and disgusting move that I consider a stab in the back from a development perspective.

1., You make such changes on the fly without official notes - how dare you?

2., This is a SKILL that our characters have learnt (and please don't get me started on this, because the feel of immersion regarding many of my toons have been damaged so badly due to skill/mechanics/characteristic changes you made in the past years that you managed to alienate 80% of my "stable" before me, kudos to you!). This is worse than godmoding. We are not talking about different zones/maps that were designed for special purposes and therefore certain TYPES of skill are barred from use to EVERYONE (festivals, moors, etc). You are basically drawing invisible lines within which our characters temporarily forget skill(s) - how dare you?

3., This is a so-called emergency skill - and when do you need such skills the most? That's right, in the direst of situations when you are taking on Instance/Raid bosses. What's the point of even leaving it on the skillbar?? You allowing us to use an emergency skill for trash pulls but not for serious encounters? Where were you when they taught the spelling of LOGIC?

4., This skill has a corresponding Legendary Legacy. Now that this skill has been made an emote essentially, will you add it to the Collections? Will you compensate our efforts that were put into getting and maxing this Legacy on one or multiple Legendary Items? Or maybe, an even better idea, you should introduce some immersive, "role-playing" Legendary Items in the next update! A few promising legacies come to mind...
Firebreath Duration Legacy
Pie Eating Cooldown Legacy
Cathc a Cold +% Legacy
Swift Travel Speed Legacy
Laughter Volume Legacy
Outfit Change Cooldown Legacy
Rubberband Duration Legacy
Forced Emotes Resistance Penetration Legacy
...

5., I can not and will not accept any potential excuses regarding how people might have "used" a skill to achieve/exploit such and such. Our characters have a wide variety of skills that we are (well, should be) free to use whenever we seem fit (given of course the natrue of the skill: I-C, O-o-C, emote, pet and so on). How the environment reacts is what should be adjusted. You could extend aggro-range for bosses, work on resets or make sure that closed gates remain CLOSED as intended, etc.
Half solutions are no solutions!

Thanks for Your Attention!

[shooter111]

I know there's lute strings but I probably haven't used those since SoA days for threat reduction and the one fight I struggle with the most in the new content is Blood of the Serpent when it comes to waiting on the tank to grab threat. Admittedly my groups typically do the fight without warsteed and as such suffer with trying to attack or get the aggro of a bunch of ranged NPCs. This is the added difficulty when I'm unable to reduce threat for the healing output needed to keep the group alive as well as myself. If a tank can't get them quickly enough with an ill-timed stun it's a wipe.

Seems inconsistent with the alteration of feign in new instances compared to old ones that it has been used to skip or reset fights (Ruined City the one that comes to mind the most). It wouldn't hurt if we take a look at threat reduction in the form of consumables again like lute strings but I doubt that will be upgraded along with instruments anytime soon.

For the blood of the serpent t2 all I do is have the tank/ dps class kill the boss while I tank the ads and heal. BS is your friend