Raid Progression - Throne of the Dread Terror

[Kerod]

Server: Brandywine
Kinship: Impulse

The Unbroken One T2C and Gothmog T2C


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[Willj119]

Good job to impulse!

[NigerianPrince]

Congrats Portal on exploiting the raid. I was told by a Russian fellow I know on Brandywine that you had but I didn't believe it until now. Once again MI6 coming in as the true winners here. Russians are now not to be trusted in sport OR in game.

[sanctions]

Brandywine
The seven heroes
5th t2c https://youtu.be/xT6iZrHJIDk

[TearMaker]

You are referring to the knockback aren't you?

1.) It's a knockback. Can a knockback be avoided if standing with your back to a wall? Yes. Is standing with your back to a wall (even if it's an invisible wall) exploiting? No. And even if it only works in this specific "magic spot", it's not like they did some jumps or glitches to reach a position where they shouldn't be. After they were ported, they made a few steps back to find a position which they thought is most suitable for them.

2.) It may be unintented but I do not consider it a severe exploit as it does not significantly lower the fight's overall difficulty. As I already explained, there is often a thin line between making use of unintented mechanics and real exploiting. Everyone who already beat Gothmog T2C will probably agree that it is actually one of the easier bosses in Throne and if everything goes smoothly the fight can easily be done in less than 18 minutes. As you can see later in their video, they lost ~1.5 minutes because some of their players had to relog before the Carn Dum phase in order to change trait lines. Being infight throughout the whole fight is obviously not intented either, so in the end they still would have been fast enough.

3.) And this is my most important argument: I never asked for video proof on Gothmog and their video is not showing their first kill but their "Original Challenger" run one week later. They did not post this video to claim a kill and the ranking on the first page does not include the Challenger title. There is nothing suspicious in the screenshot of their first kill. The fact that they posted a video alone means that they do not intent to hide anything. If I decided to remove Portal from this list because I do not agree with something I saw in one of their videos which was clearly neither showing their first kill nor was being used to claim a kill, I would need remove all other kinships which have no videos at all as well. Can we assume that they avoided the knockback in their first Gothmog kill as well? Maybe yes, but that's simply not how jurisdiction works.


I am really only trying to be as objective as possible. Feel free everyone to explain why you agree or disagree with me.

This is why these type of threads always end up like this.
Why can't people just post their achievements? Believe it or not !
No, you have to create some sort of league and it all turns into a heap of cr@p...

[EyzinTaL]

Server: Brandywine
Kinship: Impulse
Throne of the Dread Terror t2c:
1) Rakothas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmRZu5-3gA
2) Mumakils - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK_MqrkJzlM
3) Vadokhar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpARAfNWduo
4) The Unbroken One - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EIlUU0IL6A
5) Nazguls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIfZ2WcYzOY
6) Gothmog - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvzVkOdGSmU

Thanks! We are a long time did not have a suitable raid composition and people were on leave. We were able to do yesterday surprisingly fast-break and close the raid on the Challenge! 4th boss fell for a third day of trying to kill him, 6th boss in the fourth week.

[Geremir]

Hello everyone!

I am recieving a lot of PMs lately and I apologize for not responding to everyone individually. I really did not want to discuss anything related to exploiting or removing kinships from this list publicly, but since there seem to be many different opinions on certain kinships, a clear and public communication may be the best solution.

First of all, I would like to explain my personal understanding of what counts as "severe exploit" and what doesn't:
In my opinion, there is a thin line and a lot of gray area between making clever use of unintended mechanics and a real exploit.

Let me give you some examples of what I consider "making clever use of probably unintended mechanics" and I think there is no reason to blame anyone for doing it:

• Using your cooldowns (for example Captain's "To Arms") pre combat and and using them again after they resetted when starting a bossfight.
• Switching your LIs or Armour in-combat. Note that switching armour is not possible any more but was commonly done pre HD expansion.
• Using old clickable armour or jewellary to gain some buffs pre-combat and then switch back to some items with better stats (e.g. Rift armour with 25% shadow damage avoidance).
• Interrupting skill animation with immediate skills to accelerate your skill rotation (if everything is done manually without the use of third party software).
• Re-summoning your Loremaster's pet to have no cooldown on their skills.
• ...

Then there are some "borderline exploits" which are clearly unintended but they are widely used and give you a comparably small boost. I feel switching trait trees pre-combat falls into this category. And while I am not happy to see this happening, I still don't think it justifies permanently removing a kinship from this list.

And then there are "heavy exploits" such as:

• Client hacks.
• Use of third party software messing with your skills.
• Using Inspired Greatness in raid instances.
• Stat exploits such as the Warsteed bug from some time ago.
• Exploiting enemy mobs so that they can't attack you any more. For example via heal aggro or Beorning taunts from outside the boss room.
• Using terrain exploits / glitch jumps to reach positions where you shouldn't be.
• Basically everything that allows your group to avoid the main indented mechanics of a fight, making the fight significantly easier.
• ...

If someone finds evidence that a certain kinship used "heavy exploits" to get a kill then I will certainly act accordingly.




I am recieving a lot of PMs regarding two things:

First, in Portal's Gothmog T2C kill video, we can see that there are 5 Minstrel Anthems active and some people suspect them of using an exploit. I personally don't play a Minstrel but I know that there should be no more than 3 Anthems active at the same time. Switching trait trees pre combat allow you to get a maximum of 4 Anthems but I do not know how 5+ Anthems are possible. I would like to see a statement of Portal explaining to us: 1.) how it is possible to get 5+ Anthems at the same time without exploiting and 2.) if it is a "borderline exploit", do you think it influenced your abilty to get the Gothmog T2C kill in a significant way? Why / why not?
I am also seeing your DPS classes are not affected by the "bird knockback", however I do not think it counts as severe exploit, so you do not need to comment on that.

Second, Eru Echor kinship made a public statement (both in English and in German) on their website: http://eruechor.ml/
So it seems like they got their first legit kill on Gothmog (without help from a GM) on 30 August which would mean they would be on rank 5 instead of rank 4. So I'm kind of torn between changing their kill date to 30 August and not changing it.
At the moment I am more on the side of not changing it because of two reasons: 1.) the fact that Turbine did not revoke their titles indicates that they did not "scam" a GM but simply had help to get past a bugged door. Also they did not skip any phases of the fight and the GM granted them the deed after monitoring them during the rest of the fight. 2.) I think it is VERY likely that they would have been able the beat it during the same lock cycle (they had raid locks after 20th August), so they would still be on rank 4 on the list nevertheless.



Please everyone keep civil and don't be hostile or disrespectful towards any other players or kinships!

6 anthems of war is entirely possible on a minstrel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGhV...ature=youtu.be

Also read what I posted in the notes under the video (concerning gothmog)

[XbammyX]

High Treason -- Gothmog T2C

[YesMaam]

Shock and Awe on Gladden has full cleared the raid 6/6 T2C as of August 26.




We have also cleared the raid in a single night as of September 4.



Special thanks to kin for letting me bring my hunter for the full clear!

[YesMaam]

Gothmog T2C completed August 10



Nazgul T2C completed July 31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsbhxubRwFk

Unbroken One T2C completed August 26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0IX...ature=youtu.be
Our first kill was 0 blue minis. Our title kill we elected to use 1 mini to ensure title. Above is the title run video.
The RK healer only will be in blooper video as it was pretty messy and it was from tanks perspective on cage.

Vadokhar T2C completed July 31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohGEGuaCGA

Mammoths T2C completed August 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dJwe7WqTPU

Rakothas T2C completed July 30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1e...ature=youtu.be

[Phindecano]

Not presently, but you'll still get the Defier of the Deathless title. I'll add a non-server-first variant in an upcoming patch.

ThePinion are you able to comment on if this has happened yet/if it is going to happen?

Done full clear in one run again yesterday, as of 09/04/16 (U18.2.4) it's not implemented.

[Hzn]

Full clear + Original Challenger
Unquale & Friends
EU-FR Sirannon



Everything done in 3h30 the 4th September @ 6h40pm UTC+1

[Marxlne]

Unbroken One T2C completed August 26 (No Blue minis on first kill) (to come
.

No blue minis ??? Can't wait to see this

[YesMaam]

I put together a few hilarious scenes as a blooper video from our time in Throne.

Highlights include:
Mammoths funny finishes and annoying parts
Gothmog unexpected events
Boss 4 first kill with 0 blue minis (CRAZY ending)
August 26 title attempt the door to gothmog bugged on us but instead of getting GM to help us we waited until next lock reset and got it full clear again September 4.

I wish I had more clips/shots and time to edit but I thought I would share. Enjoy. You can hear our conversation.

[MessyR]

I put together a few hilarious scenes as a blooper video from our time in Throne.

Highlights include:
Mammoths funny finishes and annoying parts
Gothmog unexpected events
Boss 4 first kill with 0 blue minis (CRAZY ending)
August 26 title attempt the door to gothmog bugged on us but instead of getting GM to help us we waited until next lock reset and got it full clear again September 4.

I wish I had more clips/shots and time to edit but I thought I would share. Enjoy. You can hear our conversation.

Nice video, you guys looked like you had some great fun during the raid. Cheers for sharing.

[Pavlosh]

I put together a few hilarious scenes as a blooper video from our time in Throne.

Really enjoyed this! We had a lot of bad luck on Gothmog before finally getting the T2C completion last week (which I forgot to add here, will fish out the screenshot later).

The best was Gothmog jumping on a statue and becoming immune, we wiped to the flames while desperately trying to tempt him down!

[Wulfdur]

Kinship: Raging Raiders
Server: Arkenstone
Gothmog T2C:

[jennirich]

No blue minis ??? Can't wait to see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O6-hFJXnTU

Here's the whole thing if you're interested. Captain POV. RKs don't get enough credit for how well they can heal. The hard part is not having enough rezzes imo.

[spikethe3rd]

Regarding the portal Gothmog run, could the RK that recorded just break down how exactly he managed to achieve 71k dps on the beast, including 122k hit with essence of flame Seems rather high for someone who does not have blade brother, no oathies up and is in morale swaps to me to be hitting 60k non Crit smouldering wrath ticks.

http://prnt.sc/cf325h -122k hit I mentioned with essence, showing no oathies up and what not

Would love to see the build used etc, as I'm sure I'm not doing quite this much damage Myself. Thanks in advance for any help.

[Naranor]

Regarding the portal Gothmog run, could the RK that recorded just break down how exactly he managed to achieve 71k dps on the beast, including 122k hit with essence of flame Seems rather high for someone who does not have blade brother, no oathies up and is in morale swaps to me to be hitting 60k non Crit smouldering wrath ticks.

http://prnt.sc/cf325h -122k hit I mentioned with essence, showing no oathies up and what not

Would love to see the build used etc, as I'm sure I'm not doing quite this much damage Myself. Thanks in advance for any help.

If you need some advise you must be more polite.

Do you undestand that its not pov rk have 71k dps? (my best in that day was 64k, at video try only 59,9)
Do you undestand that combat effects disabled? (one or two oath-breaker)
Do you undestand that 71K its the best result in that day, and we speak about it? (that rk have blade brother, also you can see that he make low hp)
Do you undestand that burg, lm, hunter, chump, rk, guardian, warden (i am not sure about warden, but wardens can, also old wardens which have gold 85lvl gear can debuffs twice better, its sad that 85 gold cant be loot now) debuffs bird?

So, you cant undestand any buff/debuff system. You haven't attention. And you cant normal ask advice.
But i give you some:
1. You need foundation, read all your skills and traits tree.
2. Always read all buffs/debuffs under you portrait.
3. Communicate with your group.
4. I am not sure about your build, but one stone for fire, light and heal does great idea. Realy 1 stone and satchel for fire, one for light, one for heal.
5. Start thinking.
6. Complete training, or start from begining.

If you do it, you can do build yourself.

[Evadar]

If you need some advise you must be more polite.

Do you undestand that its not pov rk have 71k dps? (my best in that day was 64k, at video try only 59,9)
Do you undestand that combat effects disabled? (one or two oath-breaker)
Do you undestand that 71K its the best result in that day, and we speak about it? (that rk have blade brother, also you can see that he make low hp)
Do you undestand that burg, lm, hunter, chump, rk, guardian, warden (i am not sure about warden, but wardens can, also old wardens which have gold 85lvl gear can debuffs twice better, its sad that 85 gold cant be loot now) debuffs bird?

So, you cant undestand any buff/debuff system. You haven't attention. And you cant normal ask advice.
But i give you some:
1. You need foundation, read all your skills and traits tree.
2. Always read all buffs/debuffs under you portrait.
3. Communicate with your group.
4. I am not sure about your build, but one stone for fire, light and heal does great idea. Realy 1 stone and satchel for fire, one for light, one for heal.
5. Start thinking.
6. Complete training, or start from begining.

If you do it, you can do build yourself.

lol so pr0 m9

[spikethe3rd]

If you need some advise you must be more polite.

Do you undestand that its not pov rk have 71k dps? (my best in that day was 64k, at video try only 59,9)
Do you undestand that combat effects disabled? (one or two oath-breaker)
Do you undestand that 71K its the best result in that day, and we speak about it? (that rk have blade brother, also you can see that he make low hp)
Do you undestand that burg, lm, hunter, chump, rk, guardian, warden (i am not sure about warden, but wardens can, also old wardens which have gold 85lvl gear can debuffs twice better, its sad that 85 gold cant be loot now) debuffs bird?

So, you cant undestand any buff/debuff system. You haven't attention. And you cant normal ask advice.
But i give you some:
1. You need foundation, read all your skills and traits tree.
2. Always read all buffs/debuffs under you portrait.
3. Communicate with your group.
4. I am not sure about your build, but one stone for fire, light and heal does great idea. Realy 1 stone and satchel for fire, one for light, one for heal.
5. Start thinking.
6. Complete training, or start from begining.

If you do it, you can do build yourself.

You're right it came off a little more like an accusation than a question, apologies. I'm currently sitting around 88k mastery unbuffed with 26k morale, which when buffed with a captain puts me over 90k and 30k morale, then higher still with a yellow mini etc.
I have an understanding of the runekeeper class having played it since 65 cap and raiding on it since 75, I have a solid rotation and while I do not have much of the t2c raid armour set and no t2 jewellery at all yet I can put out respectable dps on the bosses I have done, in my opinion, with the 4 biting wit and 2 osgiliath cleanser set bonus.

I hear people are managing 60k dps on rakothas, the most I've done so far is closer to 50k dps in that fight, I believe the new armour and jewellery will allow me to gain a bit more.

Basically my question was how are you managing to non Crit smouldering wrath for over 50k and Crit for 110k in that fight? Does the beast take more tactical damage than we think? Or is it purely down to your raid buffers and debuffers coordinating and staying focused on pushing the rk dps as high as they possibly can?

[Naranor]

I have 102k mastery with 26k hp. I don't think that bird take more incoming damage, but we have something close to 100% of time with full debuffs. Of course, we try to coordinate.

[godzwrath]

If you need some advise you must be more polite.

Do you undestand that its not pov rk have 71k dps? (my best in that day was 64k, at video try only 59,9)
Do you undestand that combat effects disabled? (one or two oath-breaker)
Do you undestand that 71K its the best result in that day, and we speak about it? (that rk have blade brother, also you can see that he make low hp)
Do you undestand that burg, lm, hunter, chump, rk, guardian, warden (i am not sure about warden, but wardens can, also old wardens which have gold 85lvl gear can debuffs twice better, its sad that 85 gold cant be loot now) debuffs bird?
Do you understand that our minstrels exploited anthems so we can make up for our lack of skill?
Do you understand we found the one spot on an entire area that the knockback doesn't even affect us?

So, you cant undestand any buff/debuff system. You haven't attention. And you cant normal ask advice.
But i give you some:
1. You need foundation, read all your skills and traits tree.
2. Always read all buffs/debuffs under you portrait.
3. Communicate with your group.
4. I am not sure about your build, but one stone for fire, light and heal does great idea. Realy 1 stone and satchel for fire, one for light, one for heal.
5. Start thinking.
6. Complete training, or start from begining.

If you do it, you can do build yourself.

You left out a couple "Do you understands" that I added. Thank me later!

[Naranor]

You left out a couple "Do you understands" that I added. Thank me later!

Thank you.
Can you argument?