Back to the Roots

[Falcro0]

I think the Minstrel must be changed. It would be nice to hear what the Comm is thinking about this Topic. Here are some suggestions:

1. Reduce the Group heal from BC (at least 50%), or remove it.
2. Give the Minstrel the Anthems back (all you removed by updating the Class to 95) especially the anthem to reduce the aggro.
3. Improve the healing from Inspire Fellows.
4. Chanage the calculation of healing. Tactical masterie should have an bigger influence at the healing.
5. Allow the Still As Death skill in the instances.
6. The Cooldown from Triumphant Spirit should be set up to 3 or 4 minutes to be a panic skill again.
7. Symphony of the hopeful heart should be a skill at the end of the Blue Tree.
8. Improve the healing from Fellowship's Heart
etc.

I think the Minstrel is too easy to play. Most of the Players just stand in the Instace and press BC and 2 Anthems. In the Moors Minstrels cant be killed by the MPs because of the BC groupheal. A change is necessary.

I am looking forward to hear your opinion.

Please remind, I am not an native speaker. I am sorry for all the grammar and Spelling Mistakes

[Pontin_Finnberry]

5. Allow the Still As Death skill in the instances.

It does work in instances just not at boss fights

[Haruno]

Sounds good, but just 1 question.

How would you keep blue line intresting when bc is nerfed, and yellow line gets a semi boost (if you spam anthems and inspire fellows with featured instance set on for -12% inc dmg).

As an alt minstrel I find yellow line more fun to play, but it simply isnt viable in some situations cause of huge damage spikes sometimes, even when you permastack the -12% inc damage.
By nerfing BC and boosting IF, the fellowship heal would shift more in the favour of yellow again, and it will make healing in a lot of situations more easy in yellow.

There is still the call to ioreth, chord of salvation buff, ballad healing buff and perfect ending, but it can be questionable if its worth missing 2 anthems and coda buffs (ofcurse if you need the heals, u need the heals, u cant simply wipe cause of lack of heals and trying to prevent a wipe with anthems^^).

[Falcro0]

@Haruno
Some opportunities would be:
1. that you can't play 3 Resonant Anthem of the Third Age at the same time in Yellow.
2. Symphony of the hopeful heart is in the blue skill Line
3. The only way to get Fellowship's Heart is the blue Line as an basic skill.
4. The only way to get Triumphant Spirit is the blue Line as an basic skill.
5. make the yellow Tree more sexy. Nobody is skilling the yellow tree till the End.
6. increase the CD of Anthems to 10-15 seconds.
7. BC makes an goup hot to heal instead of the OP healing

[Irin19]

@Haruno

4. The only way to get Triumphant Spirit is the blue Line as an basic skill.

Not true, I put about 20 points into yellow line and the other 62 or whatever it is into blue line and end up with Triumphant Spirit making it available in yellow too.

[Falcro0]

Not true, I put about 20 points into yellow line and the other 62 or whatever it is into blue line and end up with Triumphant Spirit making it available in yellow too.

You didn't understand me I was answering the Question from Haruno, which was:
"How would you keep blue line intresting when bc is nerfed, and yellow line gets a semi boost (if you spam anthems and inspire fellows with featured instance set on for -12% inc dmg)."

These are possibilities to get a blue Skill Tree sexy without the group BC.

[Michaleo]

If you want to get back to the minstrel's roots, how about doing something about the ridiculous DPS in red line, all done (in theory) by singing and shouting? After all, this MMO is not based on Dune.

I'm all for dialing back superpowers on all classes, but before I'd prune their traditional roles, I'd take a machete to these alternative roles that have gotten way out of hand.

You can expect a lot of complaints about minis if/when they can no longer automatically save the glass cannons and Leeroy Jenkinses that run around these days.

[siipperi]

If you want to get back to the minstrel's roots, how about doing something about the ridiculous DPS in red line, all done (in theory) by singing and shouting? After all, this MMO is not based on Dune.

I'm all for dialing back superpowers on all classes, but before I'd prune their traditional roles, I'd take a machete to these alternative roles that have gotten way out of hand.

You can expect a lot of complaints about minis if/when they can no longer automatically save the glass cannons and Leeroy Jenkinses that run around these days.

If we look experience of post mirkwood minstrels have very much similar dps in comparison to best dps in the game, maybe even a bit weaker in comparison.

[Irin19]

You didn't understand me I was answering the Question from Haruno, which was:
"How would you keep blue line intresting when bc is nerfed, and yellow line gets a semi boost (if you spam anthems and inspire fellows with featured instance set on for -12% inc dmg)."

These are possibilities to get a blue Skill Tree sexy without the group BC.

I'm on the same page now, sorry

[NeoBasilisk]

Unfortunately, I think BC spam is strongly factored into the current raid. I can't imagine healing Rakothas T2C without BC being as strong as it is.

[Oelle]

I think the Minstrel must be changed. It would be nice to hear what the Comm is thinking about this Topic. Here are some suggestions:

1. Reduce the Group heal from BC (at least 50%), or remove it.
2. Give the Minstrel the Anthems back (all you removed by updating the Class to 95) especially the anthem to reduce the aggro.
3. Improve the healing from Inspire Fellows.
4. Chanage the calculation of healing. Tactical masterie should have an bigger influence at the healing.
5. Allow the Still As Death skill in the instances.
6. The Cooldown from Triumphant Spirit should be set up to 3 or 4 minutes to be a panic skill again.
7. Symphony of the hopeful heart should be a skill at the end of the Blue Tree.
8. Improve the healing from Fellowship's Heart
etc.

I think the Minstrel is too easy to play. Most of the Players just stand in the Instace and press BC and 2 Anthems. In the Moors Minstrels cant be killed by the MPs because of the BC groupheal. A change is necessary.

I am looking forward to hear your opinion.

Please remind, I am not an native speaker. I am sorry for all the grammar and Spelling Mistakes

agree to nearly everything.
just one thing i'd like to have changed. playing dead should allow to reset aggro and making the minstrel unattackable and all that.
it should not allow the group to skip the whole instance.
but that could be solved better by just having gates that only open if enemies are dead. just like in stoneheigth.

[siipperi]

Unfortunately, I think BC spam is strongly factored into the current raid. I can't imagine healing Rakothas T2C without BC being as strong as it is.

Why? Rakothas has very clear way of doing damage. Distributed hit hits about every 15-20s(?), which is basically only aoe (well orcs do random attacks if you don't kill them). There are many groups who have done it with yellow minstrels, so it's not mandatory to wear blue on that fight.

[Oelle]

Why? Rakothas has very clear way of doing damage. Distributed hit hits about every 15-20s(?), which is basically only aoe (well orcs do random attacks if you don't kill them). There are many groups who have done it with yellow minstrels, so it's not mandatory to wear blue on that fight.

i'd be okay with BC if the first heal was double as strong, if just the aoe vanished completely.
then it would still be as strong as it is for maintankhealing. it would just not anymore heal the whole group.

btw: the stacking bleed is aoe, too. hits everyone in front of the boss. groups that dont use 200k morale guardian tanks usually use 6/6-tactics, where 6 people get the bleed.
but one beorn can easily outheal that bleed for the whole raid.

[Happychappy]

Remove anthem stacking too. 3 anthems of different types only in yellow line lol.

Wouldn't these changes just elevate Runekeepers even more? They are already top dps, easy for them to switch to top healing too if mini is nerfed as suggested here.

[Haruno]

Remove anthem stacking too. 3 anthems of different types only in yellow line lol.

Wouldn't these changes just elevate Runekeepers even more? They are already top dps, easy for them to switch to top healing too if mini is nerfed as suggested here.

anthems already dont stack (out of yellow). This ofcourse doesnt rule out the yellow(full line) -> 2 anthems -> blue line heal crit cry of the chorus reset -> switch to yellow 1 -> cast anthem (3) switch to yellow line number 2(without getting the 3 anhtem stack buff) cast 1 more anthem, switch to blue to reset cry of the chorus again and put 1 more blue anthem and 1 more 2nd line yellow anthem up.

However this cant be reaplied if u stay into blue for healing after (in combat), and yellow line would only allow 3 max.

how about removing the blue line bolster courage aoe heal, increase the heal of single target from bolster courage, and (slightly) boost inspire fellows aoe heal in blue line (but not to the point where u ignore the bolster courage single heal and just spam inspire fellows).

another nice buff for yellow would be that resonant anthem of the third age (as self buff) can be used besides keeping 3 anthems of war up (group buff).

[siipperi]

anthems already dont stack (out of yellow). This ofcourse doesnt rule out the yellow(full line) -> 2 anthems -> blue line heal crit cry of the chorus reset -> switch to yellow 1 -> cast anthem (3) switch to yellow line number 2(without getting the 3 anhtem stack buff) cast 1 more anthem, switch to blue to reset cry of the chorus again and put 1 more blue anthem and 1 more 2nd line yellow anthem up.

However this cant be reaplied if u stay into blue for healing after (in combat), and yellow line would only allow 3 max.

how about removing the blue line bolster courage aoe heal, increase the heal of single target from bolster courage, and (slightly) boost inspire fellows aoe heal in blue line (but not to the point where u ignore the bolster courage single heal and just spam inspire fellows).

another nice buff for yellow would be that resonant anthem of the third age (as self buff) can be used besides keeping 3 anthems of war up (group buff).

Ye they changed this quite recently. Too bad, it was fun to stack multiple x3s between minstrels.

[DJ_JD]

I agree entirely that blue needs to be reworked. The Bolster Courage spam is of course the main issue. Personally, I've always been in favor of boosting Raise the Spirit, in the fashion the old Improved Raise the Spirit trait used to work.

As in, -50% induction time, and no cooldown. But the heal is not AoE, and smaller than Bolster Courage. Once the AoE heal is removed from Bolster, it could be slightly buffed to do maybe 30% more than it currently does on non-crits. Raise the Spirit would need tweaking, because as it is it is a pointless skill.

I believe those two changes would allow Minstrels to still pump out good blue line heals, but requires the Minstrel to be on top of what they are doing, rather than just spamming one target with Bolster.


I also agree that Inspire Fellows needs a buff, and it would be all the more important if the AoE from bolster is removed.


@The comment about yellow line minstrels in Throne, yellow line minstrels are used frequently in many parts of this instance for t2c. Rakothas, Vadokhar, Nazguls, and Gothmog himself are all examples. Before I stopped raiding, we were also using Yellow minis in the Unbroken One t2c, though I understand that was changed.

[Gandalphor]

As much as certain people think that some classes are overpowered I do not agree with taking anything from any of those.

While you may have some valid points the raid was made taking into consideration RK dps, mini heals, etc. Now taking away from those key classes would mean nobody completes the raid.

[siipperi]

As much as certain people think that some classes are overpowered I do not agree with taking anything from any of those.

While you may have some valid points the raid was made taking into consideration RK dps, mini heals, etc. Now taking away from those key classes would mean nobody completes the raid.

There's only a few fights where blue minstrel is needed imo. I can think 2 fights and one trash fight where blue is really needed in that raid, especially if you have just 2 healers with you, otherwise it's really only matter of having lower CD on your rez tbh. IMO using at least one yellow minstrel on 1,3,4,5,6 boss fights (apart of CD throne room) is the way to go. On mumaks it's really down to having lower CD on the rez just in case.

I agree entirely that blue needs to be reworked. The Bolster Courage spam is of course the main issue. Personally, I've always been in favor of boosting Raise the Spirit, in the fashion the old Improved Raise the Spirit trait used to work.

As in, -50% induction time, and no cooldown. But the heal is not AoE, and smaller than Bolster Courage. Once the AoE heal is removed from Bolster, it could be slightly buffed to do maybe 30% more than it currently does on non-crits. Raise the Spirit would need tweaking, because as it is it is a pointless skill.

I believe those two changes would allow Minstrels to still pump out good blue line heals, but requires the Minstrel to be on top of what they are doing, rather than just spamming one target with Bolster.


I also agree that Inspire Fellows needs a buff, and it would be all the more important if the AoE from bolster is removed.


@The comment about yellow line minstrels in Throne, yellow line minstrels are used frequently in many parts of this instance for t2c. Rakothas, Vadokhar, Nazguls, and Gothmog himself are all examples. Before I stopped raiding, we were also using Yellow minis in the Unbroken One t2c, though I understand that was changed.

raise the spirit, because it's fast skill is really useful as part of animation cutting. I use it constantly as part of my rotation and it not just heal more than SoS but also is faster. But ye, if there's serious nerf on the blue, I just go permanently heal yellow, which I spend already most of my time in.

[Haruno]

As much as certain people think that some classes are overpowered I do not agree with taking anything from any of those.

While you may have some valid points the raid was made taking into consideration RK dps, mini heals, etc. Now taking away from those key classes would mean nobody completes the raid.

Its not about nerfing the minstrel heals, its about rebalancing some skills (making bc in blue more potent ST and inspire more potent MT)to make the class more dynamic and to promote a more varied usage of skills.

[siipperi]

Its not about nerfing the minstrel heals, its about rebalancing some skills (making bc in blue more potent ST and inspire more potent MT)to make the class more dynamic and to promote a more varied usage of skills.

You don't need to make BC more potent in blue. It already can crit over 25k.

As I have said before reducing BC AoE heal over 50% just means that there is no reason to play blue outside of pvp. So rising IF heal a bit and reducing BC AoE heal a bit is way to go.