why dont creeps get tier 2 dmg on freeps?

[Bagrash]

22?

22k moral, complaining about warg damage, nice.

[Latanab]

So many dlueded average players in this thread...

[Spilo]

What was your Crit D? Dev magnitudes are pretty silly for creeps, tbh.

[Hurtful]

22k moral, complaining about warg damage, nice.

Unfortunately, morale has nothing to do with the magnitude of the hit he took. And let's be clear, most of us don't appear to be complaining that we're getting wrecked by creeps that are dealing big hits. In fact, most would admit creeps are still relatively under-powered overall. In my mind, it's being clearly demonstrated that creeps are more than capable of dealing comparable %-based damage as the often complained about big hitters from freeps. 50% of a target's morale is 50%, regardless of the number that produces the 50%. I agree with Spilo on this in that creating balance through critical/dev magnitudes can be a slippery slope for overall balance. They should really be focusing on boosting the baseline damage of creep skills and not attempting to create balance through specific skills/ridiculous magnitudes of those skills. Right now, there is/are 1 or 2 skills per creep class that keep them relevant in PvP. This is not the best approach for achieving long-term balance, in my opinion.

[GrandCru]

In my mind, it's being clearly demonstrated that creeps are more than capable of dealing comparable %-based damage as the often complained about big hitters from freeps

Possibility is not Probability.
In the case of VT, it's just \o/

[ScribeEzra]

As a Creep through and through, i'm struggling to find the 'Creepness' in the toon 'BrianGriffin'.....couldn't you 'Mordor' it up a bit?.....

[Ethrildar]

Here's one for your collection - from today. 22k health, 28k phys mit build.

How silly of me to walk out of the rez far enough that this warg could pounce me during the 20 man rez camp.

lol.

Haha. 22k is very low, but I can only assume that's more to prove the point that in a true glass cannon build you're two-shot material to a competent Warg, even with capped mits...

22?

22k moral, complaining about warg damage, nice.

22k is low, but you both appear to be missing the point... He's well overcapped on mits and took a 10k Claws hit lol, this isn't even incredible dps either, that's a relatively standard hit with a debuff or two.

[Ethrildar]

A bit late, but as promised, some of the more lol-worthy (but of course completely reasonable) DPS parses I've had on me. Please note:


1. All of these are on my Hunter, with builds varying from 30k to 45k morale, ALL of them have 50% (over) capped FW/OC mits, and OVER 60% Critical Defence.

2. Not all of these are solo v solo, it's fairly easy to see which of the Wargs in these are not the soloing type. (1v1 confirmed too hard on FOTM Warg)

3. Most of these fights are wins for the opponent during the stun, this is with split-second reactions on my stun break, for which the animation usually ends right around 1 second after I die.

4. All of these parses will be MORE than they show here because the initial hit from stealth is masked, so anywhere from 2-10k damage is missing from all of these.

Here's a bundle of them, they're all totally fair levels of DPS of course, but I've highlighted some of the even more completely reasonable ones. Edit: I think 10,758 DPS is totally reasonable on a Freepside, raid-geared medium armour with high Crit D, it's not like Freeps only have 30-40k morale or anything... Oh wait...




Here's a Warg sustaining over 5.2k DPS on me for 12 seconds lol. For reference that's 200% of my morale pool, and I was denying positional for at least 2/3 of that time.
And here's a 14 minute log in which just Bestial Claws does the vast majority of the total damage taken, where Wargs were outnumbered by the numerous other DPS in the fight including BAs. Note the fair 10k hits (through a full buffed and capped mits Freep build with BiS gear, and the near 100% Crit/Dev rate.

[XbammyX]

22?

The point of the post is not how much health I have, but that I took over a 9k hit with 28k physical mit. I guess I was mistaken in assuming you'd be able to comprehend that.

I've tried the 40k morale blue-line hunter build and its too filthy for me to continue using. 3v1ing creeps and doing 25k DPS over extended fights sounds fun but it actually isn't... it just makes me want to kill myself. Back to lowest possible morale, highest DPS builds for me.

22k moral, complaining about warg damage, nice.

see above.

Unfortunately, morale has nothing to do with the magnitude of the hit he took. And let's be clear, most of us don't appear to be complaining that we're getting wrecked by creeps that are dealing big hits. In fact, most would admit creeps are still relatively under-powered overall.

My god someone with a brain. Lord help us.

Haha. 22k is very low, but I can only assume that's more to prove the point that in a true glass cannon build you're two-shot material to a competent Warg, even with capped mits...

+1

22k is low, but you both appear to be missing the point... He's well overcapped on mits and took a 10k Claws hit lol, this isn't even incredible dps either, that's a relatively standard hit with a debuff or two.

That warg doesn't even bother using mitigation puddle, just a regular pounce>eyerake>claws instadeath as soon as I walked 5 meters outside one-shot range.

Assuming I had 30k health it would just mean he has to take the time out of his day to hit me with a maul>rend>claws and then I'd die. Must be difficult.

[GrandCru]

The point of the post is not how much health I have

Hence the point of mentioning it in the said post.

but that I took over a 9k hit with 28k physical mit

28k physical mit. that you, of course, had during the said hit (i.e. not debuffed)?

I've tried the 40k morale blue-line hunter build and its too filthy for me to continue using. 3v1ing creeps and doing 25k DPS over extended fights

QED

Back to lowest possible morale, highest DPS builds for me.

I personally use lowest possible morale and lowest possible mitigation, for a higherest DPS build.
I am up for a real challenge and hence I opt for a Truerest Glass Cannon build.

a true glass cannon build

see above.

just a regular pounce>eyerake>claws instadeath as soon as I walked 5 meters outside one-shot range.

''highest DPS build'', obviously.

it just makes me want to kill myself.

Well, that's what instadeath typically does.

sounds fun but it actually isn't...

It's just a game, to each his own taste and opinion

[siipperi]

The point of the post is not how much health I have, but that I took over a 9k hit with 28k physical mit. I guess I was mistaken in assuming you'd be able to comprehend that.

I've tried the 40k morale blue-line hunter build and its too filthy for me to continue using. 3v1ing creeps and doing 25k DPS over extended fights sounds fun but it actually isn't... it just makes me want to kill myself. Back to lowest possible morale, highest DPS builds for me.

Having sub 40k morale these days especially as high rank automatically disqualifies you from any relevant discussion of high creep damage.

[Ethrildar]

Having sub 40k morale these days especially as high rank automatically disqualifies you from any relevant discussion of high creep damage.

You, like many others, are (unexpectedly) completely missing the point. Difference here is I think you know you're missing the point.

[siipperi]

You, like many others, are (unexpectedly) completely missing the point. Difference here is I think you know you're missing the point.

Situation here is player is complaining on same levels if creep would be complaining with 60-70k morale (if that low would be possible) and no defensive traits about how high freep damage is. Complaining about some classes damage is totally relevant but then posters bring up numbers where they take 20-30k damage, die and complain about high damage that creep do... No ####, you are naked on todays standards yourself.

[The_Memes]

tl;dr

first mistake was making 28k mit/22k morale build
get rekt quasi-leithiani hunter

[XbammyX]

Having sub 40k morale these days especially as high rank automatically disqualifies you from any relevant discussion of high creep damage.

I suppose. I'd rather not use a 40k+ morale blue line build though, personal preference.

tl;dr

first mistake was making 28k mit/22k morale build
get rekt quasi-leithiani hunter

You really got me there bud.

[Spilo]

The problem with warg is if you do not break the stun, and the Warg is Glass, you're going to get wrecked. Under similar situations, a Hunter/Burg is going to absolutely blow up any Creep not traited Mitigations. The problem with the former is Bestial Claws and lack of Audacity, the problem with the latter is also how easy Burg/Hunter damage is to do. Run mitigations, run Crit Defense, and don't base complaints on either side for getting blown up in glass builds.

[siipperi]

The problem with warg is if you do not break the stun, and the Warg is Glass, you're going to get wrecked. Under similar situations, a Hunter/Burg is going to absolutely blow up any Creep not traited Mitigations. The problem with the former is Bestial Claws and lack of Audacity, the problem with the latter is also how easy Burg/Hunter damage is to do. Run mitigations, run Crit Defense, and don't base complaints on either side for getting blown up in glass builds.

Exactly. The double standards of wearing 120k+ mastery and no defenses. Have ability to kill opponent in 1-10s and yet complain when you get rekt yourself. One can easily have 90k mastery and 40k morale even not having virtues on character or even close to min maxed character with PvE gear. Which in current PvP is more than enough damage.

[XbammyX]

The problem with warg is if you do not break the stun, and the Warg is Glass, you're going to get wrecked. Under similar situations, a Hunter/Burg is going to absolutely blow up any Creep not traited Mitigations. The problem with the former is Bestial Claws and lack of Audacity, the problem with the latter is also how easy Burg/Hunter damage is to do. Run mitigations, run Crit Defense, and don't base complaints on either side for getting blown up in glass builds.

I agree. Both need to be nerfed, none more so than blue line hunter. Shame I'm not on Arkenstone, or you on Landroval. I'd like to see just how filthy a 110k mastery 40k health blue line build is against a genuinely good warg.

[007Squanto]

the difference between building 22k morale as a hunter vs. 40k is that in situation 1: you die in the pounce, and situation 2: you lose 2/3 of your health in the pounce followed up by 5-8k bestial hits.

If you're 1v3ing wargs then you're fighting quadruple amputees IRL. I know Landy wargs are pitiful but you'd basically need to both catch them out of stealth and out of cool downs for you to win that. Or like I said, they're short-bus wargs.



With that said, 2 geared hunters shouldn't be able to wipe a craid. I really have no suggestions on how to fix it since the devs seem perfectly satisfied with just piling on content after content with no regard for how it will affect the rest of the game. If it were up to me I'd stop developing new content for a straight year just to fix all of this mess.

I had a 3.6 second 1v1 with a warg the other day. We were both out of stealth.

[007Squanto]

I agree. Both need to be nerfed, none more so than blue line hunter. Shame I'm not on Arkenstone, or you on Landroval. I'd like to see just how filthy a 110k mastery 40k health blue line build is against a genuinely good warg.

I also don't think you can build a 40k health, capped mits, capped crit D hunter with 110k mastery, I could be wrong.

[JustAnotherElf]

I've tried the 40k morale blue-line hunter build and its too filthy for me to continue using. 3v1ing creeps and doing 25k DPS over extended fights sounds fun but it actually isn't... it just makes me want to kill myself. Back to lowest possible morale, highest DPS builds for me.

Hold on, let me get this one straight...

You are complaining that a well-built hunter with a proper set of tools such as raid gear and the correct set of essences is insanely overpowered, allowing you to win 3vs1 fights. Disgusted by it you self-nerf your own morale pool back to 2013 and then complain that you get killed in 3 hits?

So your idea of proper pvp is winning even when you are not at your best?

I can draw a parallel here with a warg complaining that his BC does not crit 100% when the relative trait is removed.

Warg DPS is broken, but what you are saying is silly at best.

[GalinDurin]

Hold on, let me get this one straight...

You are complaining that a well-built hunter with a proper set of tools such as raid gear and the correct set of essences is insanely overpowered, allowing you to win 3vs1 fights. Disgusted by it you self-nerf your own morale pool back to 2013 and then complain that you get killed in 3 hits?

So your idea of proper pvp is winning even when you are not at your best?

I can draw a parallel here with a warg complaining that his BC does not crit 100% when the relative trait is removed.

Warg DPS is broken, but what you are saying is silly at best.

Someone get this man a medal. Finally. Perhaps balmy will stop demonstrating this landroval creep ooc logic level

[hahawhat]

Hold on, let me get this one straight...

You are complaining that a well-built hunter with a proper set of tools such as raid gear and the correct set of essences is insanely overpowered, allowing you to win 3vs1 fights. Disgusted by it you self-nerf your own morale pool back to 2013 and then complain that you get killed in 3 hits?

So your idea of proper pvp is winning even when you are not at your best?

I can draw a parallel here with a warg complaining that his BC does not crit 100% when the relative trait is removed.

Warg DPS is broken, but what you are saying is silly at best.

dude. the point of the post was to show that wargs can hit 10k on something with capped mits/crit d. You completely missed the point of the post

[Ethrildar]

dude. the point of the post was to show that wargs can hit 10k on something with capped mits/crit d. You completely missed the point of the post

We tried explaining that earlier on but were ignored because clearly capped mits don't work unless you have 40k morale ... ?? Lets just go along with it.

[siipperi]

dude. the point of the post was to show that wargs can hit 10k on something with capped mits/crit d. You completely missed the point of the post

They don't, you are terrible geared if they do.