Restoring order to the LOTRO economy

[Dantrag28]

I remember when a player with 2 gold was considered wealthy. Wealth was determined by the amount of hard work a player was willing to put in his craft and trade, not farming mobs that the game provides. I'd like to see things go in that general direction again, even if it means cashing out what we currently have for Lotro points.

[Nosdracir]

The real currency in an online game is time. Players with more time to play are able to gain greater in-game wealth, whether that's items, game gold, festival tokens, Stones of Jordan, or whatever else passes for wealth in a given game. As a game ages, the median level of the player population keeps increasing and the median character wealth increases along with it.

Crafting starts off as a way to gain wealth but as the level cap and craft cap go up everyone stops crafting anything that sells for less than they could earn for doing on-level slayer deeds.

It's the nature of the beast.

[Nymphonic]

I remember when a player with 2 gold was considered wealthy. Wealth was determined by the amount of hard work a player was willing to put in his craft and trade, not farming mobs that the game provides. I'd like to see things go in that general direction again, even if it means cashing out what we currently have for Lotro points.

Back then when money was harder to get, there were also a lot more gold sellers spamming the chat channels. It had gotten so bad I was actually getting gold spam in my ingame mail.

[Dantrag28]

The real currency in an online game is time. Players with more time to play are able to gain greater in-game wealth, whether that's items, game gold, festival tokens, Stones of Jordan, or whatever else passes for wealth in a given game. As a game ages, the median level of the player population keeps increasing and the median character wealth increases along with it.

Crafting starts off as a way to gain wealth but as the level cap and craft cap go up everyone stops crafting anything that sells for less than they could earn for doing on-level slayer deeds.

It's the nature of the beast.

That's the way it should be, if you're just a casual player who doesn't have the time to put in to the game, then why should you be able to obtain premium that isn't necessary for your style of gameplay. If you're going to hang out in the kiddie pool....

[Madmanthief]

I suppose you're in the deep end with that self serving , self righteous, elitist attitude you're displaying.

"Restoring order" is a convenient way of saying that people should price things the way YOU want them to.

[Dantrag28]

I suppose you're in the deep end with that self serving , self righteous, elitist attitude you're displaying.

"Restoring order" is a convenient way of saying that people should price things the way YOU want them to.

Allowing the buyer/seller (the people) dictate the value of goods, rather than the game (the government) providing you with ingame currency is what gives the players freedom of a better gaming experience. If you and your friends are gonna get up off their a$$ and slay a dragon instead of going Easter egg hunting within the safety of your trash mobs that probably couldn't kill you even if you had level 1 gear in a level 85 area should yield better results for the ones taking a risk.

[Nosdracir]

I suppose you're in the deep end with that self serving , self righteous, elitist attitude you're displaying.

"Restoring order" is a convenient way of saying that people should price things the way YOU want them to.

I believe the OP is expounding on the Fauxlosophy of Objectionablism as it would apply to an MMO like LOTRO.

[Dantrag28]

I believe the OP is expounding on the Fauxlosophy of Objectionablism as it would apply to an MMO like LOTRO.

If you are referring to capitalism, then yes.

[thinx]

There is a strong belief that creating large distances in level, gear, gold, whatever will not affect population.

Being ahead of others creates motivation. Having others that are ahead creates motivation. Creating a situation that gives the feeling "you will never be able to close the gap" creates demotivation.
A good game balances these. Currently our balance is towards a too large gap.

Of course this is the same like in economy, but there is one essential difference: In our game it is quite easy to say "I quit", "I do not start" and/or "I will go somewhere else".

IMO it should be work to stay ahead, not work to catch up. My current feeling is that catching up is much more work than staying ahead.

[siipperi]

Apart of very first months of the game 2g hasnt been mark of wealthy player.

[Arnenna]

Allowing the buyer/seller (the people) dictate the value of goods, rather than the game (the government) providing you with ingame currency is what gives the players freedom of a better gaming experience. If you and your friends are gonna get up off their a$$ and slay a dragon instead of going Easter egg hunting within the safety of your trash mobs that probably couldn't kill you even if you had level 1 gear in a level 85 area should yield better results for the ones taking a risk.

Thorog is a risk now?

He was a pansy last time I checked him out, which was well over a year ago.

[Dantrag28]

Thorog is a risk now?

He was a pansy last time I checked him out, which was well over a year ago.

Draigoch can still wipe a max level party.

[Garan]

As player traded money never evaporates (there are no significant gold sinks) and more money is always entering the economy from quest rewards and mob kills, we are guaranteed significant inflation - there's just too much money. The only way to fix this is to add money sinks. One of the old ones, repair bills, got eliminated because tanks were taking the brunt of the cost - they should have adjusted the costs rather than eliminating them. Additionally, things like horses used to cost a lot more but had their costs reduced - that was backwards, as more money entered the economy, things like horses should have cost more. The best way to adjust that would be to make the horses in many tiers with the higher tiers having more moral and going faster thus justifying greater cost - plus, horses should be subject to injury requiring additional cost to heal (like armor damage) with the better horses costing more.

There's lots of similar ideas that could have been implemented to fix the economy but players scream whenever anything costs more than they like and the devs just cut the cost with no regard to how it damages the in-game economy. I don't really blame the devs for giving in to the screaming players, I blame the screaming players for having little or no foresight and ruining their own economy. As long as the squeaky wheel gets the grease, this problem will persist and will just keep getting worse. Unfortunately, being a game that requires happy players paying for cosmetics and such, the devs will continue to do whatever they can to keep store revenues high and if that means letting the in-game gold get out of hand, that's what they'll do. If they knew that players would continue to play the game in a harsher, more realistic economy they would be happy to fix this but they know if they put in gold sinks, people will just complain and eventually leave the game so I doubt we will ever see a real solution to this, the game's payment model and customer base make it nearly impossible to implement.

[Morthion]

The only way to fix this is to add money sinks.

Technically, they could also fix it by removing all sources of generating income, but imagine the outcry over that.

[thinx]

The only way to fix this is to add money sinks.

The other way is to add artificial inflation, i.e. increase drops and prices for the next region. We had that for some time (and some time ago).
Unfortunately this can no longer be done with the gold cap at the doorstep.

[Arnenna]

Draigoch can still wipe a max level party.

Draigoch is a laugh, if it doesn't bug out. After getting 6 on the platform to drop it, it can be done with three or four easily.

On level, is different of course - then there is an element of risk involved, though not what it used to be.
Players will always find ways to push the economy. Most of us are happy to play onward, regardless of the wider ecomony, as long as we have enough gold to get by. If you do want to be up at the higher end of the economy, forget farming landscape mobs, and go into Throne and make your killing on rare pets. Or craft the Wastes rep items and sell those for small fortunes.

[thinx]

If you do want to be up at the higher end of the economy, forget farming landscape mobs, and go into Throne and make your killing on rare pets. Or craft the Wastes rep items and sell those for small fortunes.

Which again shows that our economy is no longer based on gold creation by regular playing, but on AH gold circulation.

[Arnenna]

The other way is to add artificial inflation, i.e. increase drops and prices for the next region. We had that for some time (and some time ago).
Unfortunately this can no longer be done with the gold cap at the doorstep.

I've noticed how easily the new level 105 gear breaks My hunter was running around on landscape finishing a slayer deed recently, and nothing got remotely close enough to do the kind of breakages the repair bill came to. It was actually quite funny, and made me laugh.

[Arnenna]

Which again shows that our economy is no longer based on gold creation by regular playing, but on AH gold circulation.

It's been that way since I began playing.

[thinx]

It's been that way since I began playing.

IMO no. Wealth was based on the AH, big numbers were seen in the AH, but it was not part of everyday economy. In fact most people I know maybe used the AH on a weekly basis or less. During the last 2 years it was on a daily basis, even by those that avoided the AH for years.

[Dantrag28]

Maybe if all instances were scaled to max level with a necessary crafting item that dropped once per run that all players needed to craft a max level item/weapon/armor that is not bind on aquire would help stimulate the economy..rather than using those disgraceful skirmish camps.

[Vilan]

Refining relics used to be a semi-major gold sink... once you're up to the top tiers, you're using a gold coin or more per relic, and as you go through LIs you need to keep refining more, or pulling off old ones with removal scrolls. But now that we have imbuement, you just need one good set of relics and you're set. No need to keep cranking out new ones.

What other significant gold sinks? Maybe AH fees on big ticket items? But if you increase those, people will just shift away to no-fee trading in person. Maybe SSG just needs to introduce a grind-avoidance mechanism involving gold. Buy rep items, etc directly with gold.

[siipperi]

Draigoch is a laugh, if it doesn't bug out. After getting 6 on the platform to drop it, it can be done with three or four easily.

On level, is different of course - then there is an element of risk involved, though not what it used to be.
Players will always find ways to push the economy. Most of us are happy to play onward, regardless of the wider ecomony, as long as we have enough gold to get by. If you do want to be up at the higher end of the economy, forget farming landscape mobs, and go into Throne and make your killing on rare pets. Or craft the Wastes rep items and sell those for small fortunes.

lol. You don't get #### for selling Throne pets. Not guaranteed drop, 1/12 chance, one week lock, and if you get one pet/housing item those sell for 200-300g at top. Meanwhile new area stuff. make 80-100G every 10 minutes of flower collecting.

[Hetweith]

Restoring order to the LOTRO economy = i want the economy my way.

the lotro economy is a game within the game, learn to play it or dont. some play it well and good for them but this thread title attributes virtue to an opinion that is subjective at best, and nonexistent at worst.

[Arnenna]

lol. You don't get #### for selling Throne pets. Not guaranteed drop, 1/12 chance, one week lock, and if you get one pet/housing item those sell for 200-300g at top. Meanwhile new area stuff. make 80-100G every 10 minutes of flower collecting.

Maybe not so much in large numbers now, but 4 months ago, you'd see them listed on the AH at 2000 G a pop, and maybe 10 by the same player. Most likely a farmer who exploited the locks back then.

They still go for pretty high prices on my server, just not as often.

The amount may not be high to you, but to others, who care not much for gold in the first place, it's a different world to what you play in. It's all about perspective and it's subjective, depending on one's play style and ability to work the system.

Anyone who sells journals is wasting their own resources IMO, but hey, good luck to them, it's time they had a turn. They can earn good money selling to players that dislike flower picking or those that feel it's beneath them. Though most people I know, don't buy journals, they just go pick flowers to get their own. As you said - takes ten mins tops.