SSG abandons RP. LOTRO MUSE

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Not what I said at all. I agreed we need naming rules. My position has been for quite some time that some members of the RP community think they are above the rest of the community. It is how I personally interpret it. The post made above shows exactly that. He / She feels they are above the community and is demanding a change be made. Than when statements are made such as "We deserve it" for what? What makes your sub-section of the community "deserve" something more than the rest? It belittles everyone else and shows you have and gosh darn I hate to use the words a feeling of entitlement. The raiders "deserved" a raid for 3 years and did not get one. The PvMP'ers "deserve" class balance and PvMP balance but again, it never happens. Maybe if "raiders" and "pvMP" was shown some seriously love those people would / could hold events. But I guess they are not as deserving as such. So sorry if I come across as brash or arrogant but no one portion of this community "deserves" because that my friend is why rifts form.

Then you need to reconsider your flawed interpretation.

[MarkoftheRealm]

I'm trying to understand the argument against allowing an RP server to continue as RP. Many MMOs with multiple servers have such dedicated servers. I transferred to Arkenstone from Vilya and have to put up with a bunch of garbage and childishness in world chat regarding real-life politics on an almost daily basis. It has led me to consider transferring to an RP server just so I can have a more immersive experience and have a haven from such real-world stupidity. Why are some people bent on destroying that haven?

[Denhith]

You don't get it, do you.

1. The future of Laurelin as an RP rules server isn't determined by my argument, nor yours. So you can drop all this holier than though rubbish.

2. Flaw in my argument? What, by telling you that your argument is nothing just petty jealously? But it is.

3. People such as yourself should consider the outcome of what will be there if those rules disappear.

It's pretty clear you can't have a rational conversation about this:

1. You think anyone who disagrees with your approach to debating this issue is automatically...jealous?
2. You jump to the conclusion that people want those rules to disappear and lump everyone you respond to with the tag "people like yourself"

So, take some of your own advice--drop the holier than though rubbish. It's not doing your cause any favors.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

It's pretty clear you can't have a rational conversation about this:

1. You think anyone who disagrees with your approach to debating this issue is automatically...jealous?
2. You jump to the conclusion that people want those rules to disappear and lump everyone you respond to with the tag "people like yourself"

So, take some of your own advice--drop the holier than though rubbish. It's not doing your cause any favors.

You're right - I can't - because the Laurelin community is something that I value. My casus belli. I may not be an active participant nowadays, but I know when something is worth keeping.

And no I won't drop it - people need to stand up for what they think is right and keeping Laurelin's status, for me at least, is one of them. Too often to we roll over and accept the rough end of the stick and this is not going to be one of them.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I'm trying to understand the argument against allowing an RP server to continue as RP. Many MMOs with multiple servers have such dedicated servers. I transferred to Arkenstone from Vilya and have to put up with a bunch of garbage and childishness in world chat regarding real-life politics on an almost daily basis. It has led me to consider transferring to an RP server just so I can have a more immersive experience and have a haven from such real-world stupidity. Why are some people bent on destroying that haven?

That is indeed the issue. You should give Laurelin or Landroval a try. Look beyond world chat and instead check out the Laurelin Archives - http://laurelinarchives.org/

[R_C]

I'm trying to understand the argument against allowing an RP server to continue as RP. Many MMOs with multiple servers have such dedicated servers. I transferred to Arkenstone from Vilya and have to put up with a bunch of garbage and childishness in world chat regarding real-life politics on an almost daily basis. It has led me to consider transferring to an RP server just so I can have a more immersive experience and have a haven from such real-world stupidity. Why are some people bent on destroying that haven?

Well said! This post sums up many very well thought out posts by others.

Why are people against an RP server? Why be against a place where people with different ideas of how to interact within the virtual Middle-Earth come together in harmony? Raiders, raiding. RP-ers RP-ing. Others, Other-ing. All respecting each-other. Why make Middle-Earth a microcosm of reality? We are here to escape the real world, into a fantasy of wonder, are we not???
I believe most of us are here to be in Middle-Earth. Most of us are not the problem.
Some others are here for other reasons. These "some others" spend money. SSG wants that money, on top of "the most of us" monies.
In classic corporate greed fashion SSG relaxes policy to be cool with the "some others" assuming, even depending on the reliable and always here "most of us" to not notice.

WELL, some people have noticed. Some people have started asking questions. I am just fanning the flames.

Quest: Against Corporate Passive-Aggression.

Disclaimer: I DO NOT RP. I enjoy the atmosphere RP brings to the game.

[Denhith]

You're right - I can't - because the Laurelin community is something that I value. My casus belli. I may not be an active participant nowadays, but I know when something is worth keeping.

And no I won't drop it - people need to stand up for what they think is right and keeping Laurelin's status, for me at least, is one of them. Too often to we roll over and accept the rough end of the stick and this is not going to be one of them.

If you value the community, then be a better representative of it.
I'm (clearly) not asking you to drop defending Laurelin's status, just don't be a self righteous p$!ck when you do it--otherwise, you are doing more harm than good.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

If you value the community, then be a better representative of it.
I'm (clearly) not asking you to drop defending Laurelin's status, just don't be a self righteous p$!ck when you do it--otherwise, you are doing more harm than good.

Who says I am a representative of it? I don't RP any more, I rarely log on and play the game. There are better representatives of the community - Amorey and of course the hundreds of players who contribute to the game. No rather my purpose is to call out those who would see it trashed because of whatever idiotic reasons they possess.

And please, do me a favour and don't insult my intelligence. If it became clear that the foundation of Laurelin's RP server rules were based solely on my posts then I would stop posting on the matter immediately. But unfortunately that's not the case.

Lastly, don't use ad hominems directly at me, it demeans you.

[Starbuck1771]

That is indeed the issue. You should give Laurelin or Landroval a try. Look beyond world chat and instead check out the Laurelin Archives - http://laurelinarchives.org/

What does Landroval have to do with this issue ? It isn't a forced RP server only EU-Laurelin and EU-Belegaer are forced RP servers. Landroval is RE = Role-play Encouraged. Regardless the RP tags are kinda pointless because they really don't matter and eventually there will not be enough players on the RP servers to justify keeping them running. Why do you think there are only two now? The OP claims to care about the Laurelin community but is willing to destroy it over such an idiotic issue such as tags.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

What does Landroval have to do with this issue ? It isn't a forced RP server only EU-Laurelin and EU-Belegaer are forced RP servers. Landroval is RE = Role-play Encouraged. Regardless the RP tags are kinda pointless because they really don't matter and eventually there will not be enough players on the RP servers to justify keeping them running. Why do you think there are only two now? The OP claims to care about the Laurelin community but is willing to destroy it over such an idiotic issue such as tags.

You obviously missed the point of that post. I was suggesting that the poster try one of the two roleplay servers. Why do you have issue with that?

Also Laurelin isn't forced RP - I've never seen anyone forced to roleplay. Perhaps you're mistaking the naming rules for forced roleplay. Rather silly don't you think?

[Tsch]

What does Landroval have to do with this issue ? It isn't a forced RP server only EU-Laurelin and EU-Belegaer are forced RP servers. Landroval is RE = Role-play Encouraged. Regardless the RP tags are kinda pointless because they really don't matter and eventually there will not be enough players on the RP servers to justify keeping them running. Why do you think there are only two now? The OP claims to care about the Laurelin community but is willing to destroy it over such an idiotic issue such as tags.

You want to know why there are only two RP servers, now? There used to be three RP servers, but the French RP server population was not in the top ten (perhaps it is more accurate to say in the top five of EU region servers) of the twenty-nine servers we had prior to the consolidation. The working servers were reduced to one-third their number, but the RP servers were only reduced to two-thirds their number.

In short, two of the top five populated EU servers were RP worlds with RP enforced rulesets. Your anti-RP premise lies in ruins.

[Starbuck1771]

You obviously missed the point of that post. I was suggesting that the poster try one of the two roleplay servers. Why do you have issue with that?

Also Laurelin isn't forced RP - I've never seen anyone forced to roleplay. Perhaps you're mistaking the naming rules for forced roleplay. Rather silly don't you think?

Those two servers are clearly tagged RP Landroval is not it is tagged RE. However you just proved my point. If RP is not enforced there then this entire thread is pointless and should be deleted. Because the OP's entire argument is about the RP tag and if it isn't enforced there then there is no reason for the tag as you can freely RP on any server.

[Amorey]

Those two servers are clearly tagged RP Landroval is not it is tagged RE. However you just proved my point. If RP is not enforced there then this entire thread is pointless and should be deleted. Because the OP's entire argument is about the RP tag and if it isn't enforced there then there is no reason for the tag as you can freely RP on any server.

The rules are highly valued by the Laurelin community itself, and, as Cordovan already stated, those rules are still in place. How good they are enforced by SSG is an other matter and the key of the discussion in the Roleplay forum. I am sure the debate with SSG will continue and I hope we can find a solution . The RP tag of Laurelin has shaped the sever and the community , and as other have already said, it should be treasured rather than dismissed because the RP community is truly a big and important part of the game.

[Denhith]

No rather my purpose is to call out those who would see it trashed because of whatever idiotic reasons they possess.

What a noble, selfless purpose you've bestowed upon yourself. Have fun with that.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

What a noble, selfless purpose you've bestowed upon yourself. Have fun with that.

It's not all selfless - reading rubbish from people like yourself is sufficient compensation for the seconds it takes me to read and respond to you.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Those two servers are clearly tagged RP Landroval is not it is tagged RE. However you just proved my point. If RP is not enforced there then this entire thread is pointless and should be deleted. Because the OP's entire argument is about the RP tag and if it isn't enforced there then there is no reason for the tag as you can freely RP on any server.

And there we see your true colours - another hater. Perhaps you should educate yourself by reading the rule set instead of making assumptions that support your agenda.

[Erennor]

Kind of have to agree with the RPers on this one. Server transfers really are no excuse. If you transferred to a server with an RP tag, you knew what you were signing up for and you knew that you were going to have to change your play style up. [...]

There you touch upon another good point: they do not even have to change their playstyle, which further shows the convenience that there is on playing on Laurelin. One has to go out of his/her way to purposefully disrupt community events and gatherings; to repeatedly take over RP channels for Out of Character talk (unless they are new and genuinely unaware); and to create names of the kind: 'Loredestroyer', 'Roleplaysucks'. And we have seen, (on other forums as well as in-game too from the manner in which some players have behaved) that some create such 'names' knowing full well about the naming rules, yet do so in mockery to stir up the peace and cause unrest in the community.

That many non-role players transferred to the server with the server closures last year, is nothing new on Laurelin, nor a matter of debate. The server has always had folk that did not role play. But here is the difference. They either:

went about their own business without causing trouble

or,

had no desire to role play, yet, liked and valued the atmosphere for which the policy was created for and came to the server for that reason.


The sharp contrast since the server closures, and especially during those times last year, is that then/now some disregard the policy and want it abolished, or lessened. Why cannot these players too, like so many before, -thousands over the years since the game begun back in 2008- simply let the server be, as it has always been? They can, -just like a history of nine years has shown that others can easily do so- but they are unwilling to. Therefore, one may naturally wonder what group of players does indeed feel entitled to, -as another poster said above', special treatment.

It to me is just a special tag that adds more importance to some that do not need it/ [...]

[...] Regardless the RP tags are kinda pointless because they really don't matter [...] The OP claims to care about the Laurelin community but is willing to destroy it over such an idiotic issue such as tags

If that is all one sees about the presence of the RP tag, then either his understanding of it seems to fall short, or he understands but is unwilling to accept it.

By having the RP tag next to the server name in the list of worlds, as was said above, it serves as a, or the, clear way to let interested players know where to go for this kind of playstyle and community that they are looking for, and thus in turn have a more enjoyable and fulfilling time in-game because the enviroment and interests of the community matches theirs. By having that visible official direction there, naturally over so many years it has attracted very many folk that share the same interests, preferences, and values - and in doing so, a large player-community has been shaped that enjoys and respects this atmosphere generated by the common appreciation for a more immersive enviroment.

If there was no official RP tag, all these players would have spread out on all servers, and thus role playing on a server-wide level, or anything close to it, would be impossible (unless LotRO had millions of players, but that it does not). The impact of the RP tag, or one of its impacts, is that it has served as a/the way to gather together, in great numbers, players with these values and interests.

It is nothing about adding more importance to individuals. It is about adding the acknowledgement to a server that, this world, not only encourages role play, and facilitates a more immersive experience, but also supports it.

[...] because of the naming reaction more players turned their backs on the game and our community as a whole suffered for it.

I think this is a weak argument, especially when it comes to Laurelin.

First, if some players turned their back, it is more likely and reasonable that they did so on the server, not the entire game itself. After all there was, and there is an alternative where this ruleset does not apply: Evernight. Now, even if one wants to argue that some did leave the game (and not for a short while), as a result of that, and that the entire LotRO community suffered because of it, one could say also this:

Laurelin has earned far more players than what it may have lost over the years, both for the server itself, and for the game. Community gatherings, events, storylines, kinships, kinless groups, music, poetry, story-telling, and more yet, inspired by the setting and played out in the game in the spirit of Middle-earth, to further immerse themselves, and others, into the setting, have made so many folk over the years rejoice to learn that such a community exists in-game, and they have been leaving their former worlds for Laurelin ever since 2011 when Turbine took over the server. The nature of the server and the doings on it, have rekindled the sparkle of enthusiasm for a more believable Middle-earth experience in the game that many have sought for. It serves as an asset to the game itself, and as a gift to its community. Many receive it gladly, but to some others it may ignite envy. Yes, there can be such a thing in the hearts of people, and it can transfer to an mmo enviroment too.

But why on the other hand should 1 portion of the community get a dedicated server? Why no PvP or raiding server or crafting server or questing servers

Laurelin was bestowed the official RP tag ten years ago with the onset of the game. Why you ask? It has served as a clear direction for all those coming to the game in search of role play/a more immersive enviroment, to know where to go. From this you too may perceive the different on-going growth the server has had.

Perhaps it is like arguing why LotRO should have its own dedicated PvMP. If I remember well, initially LotRO was going to launch without PvMP, but listening to the desires of some of the community, (as well as expectations from without), the decision came about to add it. Can one now advocate against this decision and question why should there be PvMP in the game anymore?

Some people don't like change and refuse to accept it, I'm sorry Laurelin had to bear some of the unwashed masses of refugees of the mergers... we all did.[...] Adapt and overcome, just like everyone else.

Indeed; some people as the time of the server transfers have shown, do not like change and refuse to accept it. But it is not the Laurelin players that had to 'change', it is the transfers. And what they had to change a reader may now ask in his/her mind? 'Names' of the kind 'Ipawnyoulolz', 'Loredestroyer'. And though one may understand that even such names might mean something more to some players, at the same time, just like you have said here, to use the same phrase 'adapt and overcome', or else, make use of the alternative choice: Evernight.

And again here, it needs to be emphasized once more like in the other thread, that at least for those that are not content with the policy, there is a choice. Some argue that that is not an option because Evernight is overpopulated. But for Laurelin there is no choice at all. It is the only English-speaking world with this additional support and protection from the Higher Powers. Players that value that more immersive enviroment free of nonsense names, and rp harassment, can go nowhere else. There is no other option. The other players, those against the rp policy, have a choice.

Laurelin has ever been open to newcomers, and that has been nothing new there. People have been coming from other servers to Laurelin since 2011, and been welcomed well, and in many cases like lost kindred who different servers have for long kept away.

[...] eventually there will not be enough players on the RP servers to justify keeping them running. Why do you think there are only two now? .

On the contrary; due to what the rp community offers, and the more immersive experiences that are played out on the server, even on an every day basis, all that serves as a way to keep players more content with their time in-game. And Laurelin was among the highest most populated worlds even before the server transfers.

If there is one server that can prove itself more longlasting than others, Laurelin is certainly included for many and various reasons that have been talked in length and in depth in other posts, this one too, and elsewhere in a more cohesive form.


As for 'why do you think there are only two now?'

LotRO has had only 3 official RP worlds to begin with: Laurelin, Belegaer, and Estel. Out of these it is only Laurelin that is an English-speaking world. Since the vast majority of LotRO players can communicate in English, it would be unwise to not keep one such RP server up. Estel was closed perhaps because the French LotRO playerbase is much smaller.

[...]
I'm all for Rp but when things get really to the point, I'd say players 'destroying' 'their' community isn't really true. Besides, it's 'OUR' community, Laurelin doesn't have special claim rights on it.

It is our community as in the wider LotRO community to which all of us can relate to and feel a member of - yes. But as it is known, there are different communities within the game, and role playing and others that favor that more immersive experience make up another one (and not small one at that). One can say that Laurelin has 'rights' to the community that has been created there as well as the content that this community generates even on a daily basis. If all these players where to suddenly stop, a tremendous change would come over the server: it would be silent.

The Green Dragon inn the Shire would no longer see such a merry hobbit-merrymaking every week, nor travelling dwarves stopping in for a while; no wandering Elves through the woods of the Shire on their way to the havens; no Elves travelling to and from Rivendell; no dwarf-folk with their own matters and tales in Thorins Hall; no more patrols of the Rohirrim over their lands; no more elvish music in the Hall of Fire; and other things yet.

The immersion of the server, this more believable Middle-earth presentation, would vanish. For it is these people that give the server the 'life' that other worlds lack.


As for what are these rights? As simple and as easy to follow as it sounds: to merely have that enviroment be continued and respected, just like everyone else wants to, on other servers too.

Is that much to ask?










[emphasis in the quotes is mine]

[Arnenna]

Not going to get too much into the ins and outs in this thread - so just going to give my own perpsective on it.

I'm not an RP-er, therefore, I chose not to put my main play on a dedicated RP server. The RP server has been here a long time, and even as a newcomer, five years ago, I knew the differences between the RP servers and the non RP servers. If I had chosen to enter onto the RP server, I would absolutely stick to the RP format of the server.

Yes, I know we have no dedicated raid server or pvmp server, but both those things take place in areas that do not affect the whole world. Raids are done inside raids, where only the raid group is affected by what goes on inside it. Same goes for PvMP. We can therefore raid or PVmP on any server, without any disadvantage to those playstyles.

The RP server IMO, should stay the way it's always been.

[Amennator]

Threads like these make me appreciate being on Landy.

[treato]

OP, I have yet to see your apology to SSG for your post as a dev responded almost immediately and your complaints were unfounded.

[Joedangod]

OP, I have yet to see your apology to SSG for your post as a dev responded almost immediately and your complaints were unfounded.

They're not unfounded at all yet. They removed a sticky that is apparently outdated and have given no hints as to whether they are still enforcing RP rules. If there was a new sticky with a list of RP rules that were actively being enforced then the OP would have unfounded complaints, that hasn't happened yet and there is no hint of a time frame for it to happen.

Cordovans post is the equivalent of saying "We haven't ignored you" without offering any physical evidence to dispute the OP.

[EB64]

They're not unfounded at all yet. They removed a sticky that is apparently outdated and have given no hints as to whether they are still enforcing RP rules. If there was a new sticky with a list of RP rules that were actively being enforced then the OP would have unfounded complaints, that hasn't happened yet and there is no hint of a time frame for it to happen.

Cordovans post is the equivalent of saying "We haven't ignored you" without offering any physical evidence to dispute the OP.

Cordovan re-stickied the original rules post.

[Joedangod]

Cordovan re-stickied the original rules post.

...the rules which weren't being enforced?

[Amorey]

...the rules which weren't being enforced?

The discussion is still ongoing about rules and enforcement. Cordovan explained they are currently very busy, I hope that in time a good outcome can be reached for all.

[EB64]

I can't speak to whether or not the rules were being enforced as I'm not on a RP server(mainly because of the constant bickering I see about RP policy on these forums).

Cord has stated that the rules have not changed, but they do need to be looked at and possibly adjusted due to the constant in-fighting going on on Laurelin.
People can't come to a consensus on what exactly needs to be done, and how strict things should be.

If the rules truly are not enforced at all, then I'm sorry. If you're just saying they're not enforced to the extent YOU want them to be, well there's your problem.
People on both sides of the RP debate take things too far, and some people will never be satisfied with how the rules are enforced.