New Keys, New Lootboxes + Best in Slot Ring

[Aedfrith]

Probably the same design decision that causes sturdy steel keys to drop from Mordor mobs.

AKA a shameless pitch for your LP.

[Knight.]

Update

In kin, we have now seen several Gold Rings (might/will/agi) drop from loot boxes with item levels 326 - 329
The Gold Ring for 2750 ashes is item level 326.

It appears that when you get a piece of gear there are 3 variations:

• Item Name, which is your identifier and decides the "package" of stats for that item
• Minimum Level (e.g. 115) of Character, based on your level when you acquired item or fixed level
• Item Level, which can fall within a range x to y e.g. 325 / 326 / 327 / 328 / 329

The higher the item level, the greater the stats have been scaled.
We have been seeing purple, teal and gold drops that seem to follow this pattern.

I believe this is a design decision intended as an extra reason to keep grinding and fine tuning builds.From as SSG perspective it makes sense and adds an extra level of depth to game to keep people playing and also provides continued incentive for players to purchase black steel keys and open lootboxes.

From an absolute min-maxers perspective it is somewhat of a nightmare due to the added level of RNG, but at the same time may also take the edge off to feel obliged to min-max.
(as the chances of you being able to do so are significantly decreased)

There will never be a design that has loot from lootboxes that is statistically better than what you can gain someplace or somehow in game. Finding that loot in game might be hard, but it will be possible. Our overall design philosophy is that loot boxes are not required to reach the best gearing. If players do find some piece of gear that is best in slot and can only be gained through loot boxes then 1.) it is a bug or 2.) it is an oversight and will be fixed or 3.) there was some release timing issue and the loot will be available someplace in game soon.

In this case the intent is that those rings can be purchased from the Ash vendor for an appropriately large amount of Ash.

Sev~

As things stand, the loot boxes can provide a statistically better ring than that which is available someplace in game albeit not guaranteed.

It could be argued that all players have access to an allegiance daily which grants a black steel key for free.
This in turn does give all players the chance to open loot boxes for free and also obtain the statistically better item without spending a penny, but I think that's a grey area.

[Sebastian_Hedgehog]

On Brandy the Gorgoroth boxes are selling for 1g (lowest price) in AH. In an hour of mob farming I collected 32 of them, and didn't see a key. Consequently, I trashed all the boxes. A more cynical person would suggest that the keys are deliberately scarce, and the boxes deliberately abundant, for a reason. I couldn't possibly comment

[Otdanon]

On Brandy the Gorgoroth boxes are selling for 1g (lowest price) in AH. In an hour of mob farming I collected 32 of them, and didn't see a key. Consequently, I trashed all the boxes. A more cynical person would suggest that the keys are deliberately scarce, and the boxes deliberately abundant, for a reason. I couldn't possibly comment

They are not "scarce". They don't drop at all. Only available in the store & from the buggy dailies which tend to reset all the time and take ages to complete.

[Valakircka]

i never saw a black key dropping nor anyone i know

[Laurelinarien]

Yeah, confirmed. I've taken 2 toons thru Mordor already - results: boxes - infinite drops; black keys - 0 drops.

I bought 2 keys just to check the loot for myself.. got some ashes of gorgoroth (40-60), teal gear (my clases & lvl) and crafting bundles.

[Beastnas]

The 327-329 rings possible from lootboxes only are clearly better than any other option. Sev's comment about lootbox design is very direct, 326 Ash ring being buffed seems like the simplest way to correct this.

[Knight.]

The 327-329 rings possible from lootboxes only are clearly better than any other option. Sev's comment about lootbox design is very direct, 326 Ash ring being buffed seems like the simplest way to correct this.

Despite being one of the very lucky ones to obtain an item level 329 ring, I would still like to see all Turca / Linta / Iswa rings in game (whether already equipped by players, new from ash vendor or from lootbox) be changed to item level 329. For 2750 ashes and as the jackpot prize in lootbox it should be the best in slot, statistically speaking.

Lootboxes can provide 20/40/100/200/400 ash at a time significantly reducing grind, plus rewards such as shadowed essences, teal materials (some nice shoulders, bracelets, rings etc.) and crafting materials in addition to the jackpot prize of a gold ring. Even with this change, they will still be very desirable to open.

[Willj119]

On Brandy the Gorgoroth boxes are selling for 1g (lowest price) in AH. In an hour of mob farming I collected 32 of them, and didn't see a key. Consequently, I trashed all the boxes. A more cynical person would suggest that the keys are deliberately scarce, and the boxes deliberately abundant, for a reason. I couldn't possibly comment

The keys don't drop at all, however, my understanding is that they can be aquired by doing dailies once you have completed most of the quests that mordor brings and maxxed any one allegiance.

This is actually a good change as it prevents multiboxers from getting the keys and controlling the in game market.

I will add my voice to those who say all versions of these gold rings should be normalised to a single item level, for such a rare BiS item, adding further RnG grind is just stupid.

[Irin19]

A little off topic, but why do the agi and might rings feature 7k+ of finesse but the will based ring provides fate instead??? Is there a component of finesse included with fate? /sarcasm.

[Mandura]

A little off topic, but why do the agi and might rings feature 7k+ of finesse but the will based ring provides fate instead??? Is there a component of finesse included with fate? /sarcasm.

That seems to be a trend. There literally is ZERO finesse on ANY of the will-based gear. They put evade on it instead in many cases *facepalm*

[Knight.]

As an additional note, after having completed all current content and spoken to others it definitely appears that current best in slot shoulders are only available from lootboxes and also follow the same deviance as the gold rings (item levels 326 - 329)



For better or for worse, this is clearly a design choice.
Furthermore if normalising the gold ring stats to all be item level 329 , then by the very same principle the lootbox shoulders would also need to be normalised to all be item level 329.

[Kasius]

As an additional note, after having completed all current content and spoken to others it definitely appears that current best in slot shoulders are only available from lootboxes and also follow the same deviance as the gold rings (item levels 326 - 329)



For better or for worse, this is clearly a design choice.
Furthermore if normalising the gold ring stats to all be item level 329 , then by the very same principle the lootbox shoulders would also need to be normalised to all be item level 329.

Sadly all items can drop till item lv 329 from lootbox.
I even saw items with for example mainstat,vit,mastery,mitigatio n.
Something you don't get normally.Or just the ash bracelet/earring on lv 329.
If you got enaugh money and a little luck you can get total BIS gear from lootboxes

[Sprinkling]

The drop rate of the lootboxes is much too high. Being forced to destroy all those boxes seems like a waste.

If keys are going to be difficult to come by, the boxes should be somewhat uncommon.

[Dmunney]

Just a FYI but i got item level 330 teal tanking ring on my guardian from a lootbox. So it's 326-330 level range atleast . Oh and the stats were different than ANY bartered... ring 600 might 1150 vit 8.3k crit def and 7328 TACT MIT!!!.. So another BiS piece available ONLY from a loot box!!!!!! Thats an oversight or just horrible game desigh if WAI

[HeallBilly]

In Mordor there are shields 115 lvl, but it's like a mirage in the desert. I see these game items in the database, but I can not understand where they can be obtained.

[Knight.]

Although the highest Gold Ring I've seen is 329, in another post on the forums (struggling to find it atm) someone linked item level 331 shoulders from a lootbox.
The item level range seems greater than initially thought. It may also be the case that different items have different possible ranges.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

In Mordor there are shields 115 lvl, but it's like a mirage in the desert. I see these game items in the database, but I can not understand where they can be obtained.

That'll be the instance or raid gear. See the "Abyss" in the name? Also search for "Abyssal" to see the armor sets.

[HeallBilly]

That'll be the instance or raid gear. See the "Abyss" in the name? Also search for "Abyssal" to see the armor sets.

Abyss is this what awaits us all? New content?

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

Abyss is this what awaits us all? New content?

The Abyss of Mordath. They already announced it as the name of the new raid.

[Constrictions]

There will never be a design that has loot from lootboxes that is statistically better than what you can gain someplace or somehow in game. Finding that loot in game might be hard, but it will be possible. Our overall design philosophy is that loot boxes are not required to reach the best gearing. If players do find some piece of gear that is best in slot and can only be gained through loot boxes then 1.) it is a bug or 2.) it is an oversight and will be fixed or 3.) there was some release timing issue and the loot will be available someplace in game soon.

In this case the intent is that those rings can be purchased from the Ash vendor for an appropriately large amount of Ash.

Sev~

While I really like this response, it does raise the question for me: What is your measure of statistical significance?

Part of me is not really convinced this will remain true.
In any MMO I've played where the means of obtaining better, but 'statistically non-significant' gear is by RNG, this non-significance tends to hold only for a few months. What tends to happen is that the cumulative benefits of the 'statistically non-significant' gear that's been obtained by RNG eventually always results in statistical significance for DPS, TPS or HPS (assuming we're using equivalence testing). Depending on the gear and game it can be resistances, too.

Granted, this RNG type itemisation may only be temporary until the new instances are released, and you may go back to a progression system similar to the minas tirith/ithilien essence style grind (e.g. with ash of gorgoroth). But you guys haven't exactly been consistent in the methods by which we have obtained gear in the past. The biggest example of this is the reintroduction of radiance, an instance mechanic which lotro developer teams have already publicly denounced at least once before, at the behest of the majority of the playerbase nonetheless*.


Furthermore, following the second part of your statement which I underline, you seem to imply that as far as SSG is concerned, 'best' is whatever is statistically the best in terms of the effects of character stats on DPS/TPS etc etc. If this is true, I guess it should be no surprise that you know full well the average player does not define 'best' in this way, but by the flat sum of character stats of any given item.

I can appreciate that you want to give people incentives to spend money (and you should), but tying itemisation to the store in this manner is nothing short of an impish marketing strategy. In the long run it will only serve to give players the lasting impression that, despite splitting from turbine/wb, short-term income still trumps good game design as far as lotro's big bosses are concerned.




*interestingly, none of the official developer diaries or materials from this era in lotro are publicly available anymore.. are we just clearing excess storage, or are there things you don't want people reflecting back on as we go forward?

[Macdui]

Was anything changed to the loot box itemisation in any of the hot fixes? Devs?

Someone mentioned their contents were determined at creation rather than opening so having sent all the boxes to a spare alt to store I can roughly determine the earlier drops from the most resent and opening an earlier box this week got me a 327 ring (BTAccnt) for my hunter when opening recent drops hadn't been so accommodating. Is it worth sorting the boxes and only opening older ones?

Mac

Edit: Item level

[Dmunney]

Although the highest Gold Ring I've seen is 329, in another post on the forums (struggling to find it atm) someone linked item level 331 shoulders from a lootbox.
The item level range seems greater than initially thought. It may also be the case that different items have different possible ranges.

Opened a lootbox on hunter yesterday got an item level 332 teal earring /sigh

[Ethrildar]

The fact that boxes drop like candy meanwhile keys are still not on the loot-table (which is still identical to 105 loot even down to recipes) is what makes this such a kick in the teeth.

This expansion has been the biggest cash-grab I've ever seen. I mean it works, I bought some keys which jumped me forward and cut me 2-4 hours of grinding time by spending £15. I won't be doing that again but hey, they made some money out of me by making such horrible content.

Trick is, I haven't played all week, I have no desire to log onto a game I've played now for over 10 years because of this cash-grab super-grind mentality.

Players who are online are going to spend more money than players who can't be bothered to log in, SSG.

[Knight.]

Just had these drop. Item level 332 shoulders are definitely possible from loot boxes.