Warg's element of surprise trait

[wretchesandkings]

I was planning on replacing this trait with rally howl heal but then I read the description on shadow stance and it said claws, mauls etc function as they do from stealth. Claws and maul crits almost 100% time and I thought it was tied to shadow stance specifically, but could it be due to this trait?

[Dotlbeme]

I have not. This is for critting from stealth only, correct? I could be wrong, but most of the time I use pounce from stealth, and you only get one attack or two if you burn disappear. In my mind it was not worth it for the times you use claws from stealth.

With the newest update, I am not 100% sure what corruptions and traits are worth slotting.

The two traits I may switch out are the CD traits for Stealth and Sprint.

Anyone have a decent lineup? I am VIP, have all my slots open and (own or) can pretty much buy any trait I need.

Corruptions: Damage for Health I II Damage for Power I II Mastery I-II Resist I-III Phys Mit I-II Tac Mit I-!! (one other I cant remember...)

Someone tell me if any of these are worthless...

[Giliodor]

stuff

You do not seem to be aware of the fact that most attacks in Shadow Stance act as if they were from stealth. The Element of Surprise trait is therefore very valuable as a Shadow Warg.

[Dotlbeme]

You do not seem to be aware of the fact that most attacks in Shadow Stance act as if they were from stealth. The Element of Surprise trait is therefore very valuable as a Shadow Warg.

You are correct! I did not realize that. This is the type of info I come here to get.
THANKS!

Next question: If I run in Shadow stance do I need the trait that makes all damage shadow?

[Spilo]

You are correct! I did not realize that. This is the type of info I come here to get.
THANKS!

Next question: If I run in Shadow stance do I need the trait that makes all damage shadow?

No, it's a useless trait for the most part. It means claws damage is bypassed through Freep Shadow (tactical) mitigation rather than Orc-Craft/Fell-Wrought. It's a waste of a slot, usually.

If you need any additional help with corruptions, let me know.

[Dotlbeme]

No, it's a useless trait for the most part. It means claws damage is bypassed through Freep Shadow (tactical) mitigation rather than Orc-Craft/Fell-Wrought. It's a waste of a slot, usually.

If you need any additional help with corruptions, let me know.

OK!
I slotted Element of Surprise (EoS) and running in shadow it seemed to make a noticeable difference. I will drop shadow fang (as you indicate and as I suspected not worth it).
Right now I have: Armor Boost, Long Strides, Enhanced Stealth, EoS, Enhanced Disappear, Resistance Boost, Enhanced Sprint
Race: Four Legged Foe, (not sure of the others off hand but I think: Pack Mentality, Pack Elder, Pack Alpha)
Corruptions, I will take advise. I have 3 Resistance Mits, 2 Phys Mits, 2 Tac Mits, 2 Masterys, and a couple damage for (health, power)

Not sure what would be best for running landscape with the occasional freep encounter. Get the switch on the fly and use different ones vs. freeps?
What (current PvMP stats) would be a good setup for (LEVEL 5 atm but I have bought a few higher level skills)? I have all slots available.

[Corwelleon]

OK!
I slotted Element of Surprise (EoS) and running in shadow it seemed to make a noticeable difference. I will drop shadow fang (as you indicate and as I suspected not worth it).
Right now I have: Armor Boost, Long Strides, Enhanced Stealth, EoS, Enhanced Disappear, Resistance Boost, Enhanced Sprint
Race: Four Legged Foe, (not sure of the others off hand but I think: Pack Mentality, Pack Elder, Pack Alpha)
Corruptions, I will take advise. I have 3 Resistance Mits, 2 Phys Mits, 2 Tac Mits, 2 Masterys, and a couple damage for (health, power)

Not sure what would be best for running landscape with the occasional freep encounter. Get the switch on the fly and use different ones vs. freeps?
What (current PvMP stats) would be a good setup for (LEVEL 5 atm but I have bought a few higher level skills)? I have all slots available.

In my opinion, wargs are all about the quick kill. You should consider 3 - 6 crit buffs - I don't think the resistances are that useful. Interesting to see what Spilo is running after U21. I trait 6 crit on my warg to not only max the chance of crit but greatly increase their magnitude. 3 min for the set bonus.

Aak/Cor

[Nouri]

Hey Dotlbeme~
If you have a warg on crick, check your mail. I have a terribly geared, r0, 105 RK on Crick. I rode out to Grams a few times, but didn't find anyone. I sent you my RK's name if you'd like to hook up for some 1v1s sometime.
/Cheers

[Dotlbeme]

Hey Dotlbeme~
If you have a warg on crick, check your mail. I have a terribly geared, r0, 105 RK on Crick. I rode out to Grams a few times, but didn't find anyone. I sent you my RK's name if you'd like to hook up for some 1v1s sometime.
/Cheers

Hey there Nouri...may have run into you guys at GV a few times.

[Dotlbeme]

In my opinion, wargs are all about the quick kill. You should consider 3 - 6 crit buffs - I don't think the resistances are that useful. Interesting to see what Spilo is running after U21. I trait 6 crit on my warg to not only max the chance of crit but greatly increase their magnitude. 3 min for the set bonus.

Aak/Cor

Thanks. I am currently playing with my corruption set up.

I just slotted 3 crit defense to mitigate burglar ganking.
You suggest slotting crit (offense) and that resistances are not useful. (have 3 resist slotted atm which gives +5% morale)

What is your feeling on:
Finesse?
Phys/Tac mits?

Anything else that might prove useful?

[Corwelleon]

Thanks. I am currently playing with my corruption set up.

I just slotted 3 crit defense to mitigate burglar ganking.
You suggest slotting crit (offense) and that resistances are not useful. (have 3 resist slotted atm which gives +5% morale)

What is your feeling on:
Finesse?
Phys/Tac mits?

Anything else that might prove useful?

I personally view my warg as a "kill or be killed" class. I rely not on Morale but rather stealth and speed. I always trait the heal howl. Hence, crit (offense) is of critical importance and pairs well with shadow stance. I like finesse but am somewhat conflicted. To add it, I need to sacrifice something else. I find that 2 finesse on my dps builds is sufficient - but often trait 0 on non-dps builds. I know of others that do not trait it at all and are successful.

I am a HUGE fan of tactical and physical mits, but don't have a lot of room to trait many on my warg. E.g. My BA traits 4 crit (off) and 2 finesse vs 6 crit (off) on my warg. I also like a couple masteries to increase base damage the crit comes off of. This leaves less room for mits than I would like.

Resistance may be helpful for a character that can "stand there and take it" but given the very high DPS of freeps, 5% or even 10% more morale does not mean much at the moment.

These are my thoughts, but Warg is my #4 toon, so take that into account. As I rarely solo, my builds also rely on support from others in my pack or raid. I welcome the views of more experienced wargs who care to share. I also suggest you Google "LOTRO The Art of the Warg" - although somewhat dated, it may change your life!

Aa/Cor

[Spilo]

Somehow missed the updates to this thread until just now, apologies OP- didn't want to leave you high and dry.


With the stat changes, corruption builds aren't really optional anymore. You really do not have any choice but to slot 6 crit and 3 of each mitigation (at least until they decide to fix creep stats). If you know you will be fighting a physical class (champ) or a tactical class (RK), then 4 of a mit, and 2 morale. Other than that, you should ALWAYS have 6 crit, and 3 of each mitigation.

In terms of other corruptions, I'll list the ones I use, and give a short bit on why I use them.

Race:

Pack Elder. No debate here, 7.5% physical mitigation is a necessity.
Pack Hunter. Great skill for massive debuff, some folks have the Howl of Unnerving Fear slotted instead. Both are useful- personal preference.
Pack Alpha./Pack Mentality Stats didn't scale well at all, you can swap this one for Howl of Unnerving or Foe of the Light, if you want
Four Legged Foe. A must for the run speed.

Class:

Enhanced Disappear: A must
Enhanced Sprint: Another must
Enhanced Stealth: obviously
Armor Boost: Big mistake to not slot this. Bumps both of your mits up by 5-6%
The Element of Surprise: A Must
Long Strides: Run speed is always a must
Enhanced Eye Rake: Increases DPS by a chunk, a must

Only time you'd run anything different is if you were running Flayer (in which you'd swap Enhanced Stealth for Enhanced Flayer) or were hunting burg packs (swap enhanced sprint with enhanced sense prey). Everything else is too valuable to lose.

Hope this helps.

[Dotlbeme]

I personally view my warg as a "kill or be killed" class. I rely not on Morale but rather stealth and speed. I always trait the heal howl. Hence, crit (offense) is of critical importance and pairs well with shadow stance. I like finesse but am somewhat conflicted. To add it, I need to sacrifice something else. I find that 2 finesse on my dps builds is sufficient - but often trait 0 on non-dps builds. I know of others that do not trait it at all and are successful.

I am a HUGE fan of tactical and physical mits, but don't have a lot of room to trait many on my warg. E.g. My BA traits 4 crit (off) and 2 finesse vs 6 crit (off) on my warg. I also like a couple masteries to increase base damage the crit comes off of. This leaves less room for mits than I would like.

Resistance may be helpful for a character that can "stand there and take it" but given the very high DPS of freeps, 5% or even 10% more morale does not mean much at the moment.

These are my thoughts, but Warg is my #4 toon, so take that into account. As I rarely solo, my builds also rely on support from others in my pack or raid. I welcome the views of more experienced wargs who care to share. I also suggest you Google "LOTRO The Art of the Warg" - although somewhat dated, it may change your life!

Aa/Cor

Thanks!

I am starting to think this then....

3-4 crit offence
2 crit def
2-3 mastery
2 Finesse
1(or 2) you pick em...probably health for power or damage for power

Mostly been running in small groups, solo landscape. When up against freeps it is usual to have several creeps with me.

[Spilo]

Thanks!

I am starting to think this then....

3-4 crit offence
2 crit def
2-3 mastery
2 Finesse
1(or 2) you pick em...probably health for power or damage for power

Mostly been running in small groups, solo landscape. When up against freeps it is usual to have several creeps with me.

Finesse and Crit D are pretty much useless at the moment, as they are FAR outweighted in importance by Crit and mitigations. 3-4 crit isn't enough for a Warg, and you MUST have 3 of each mit slotted when roaming. Read my above post!

[Dotlbeme]

Somehow missed the updates to this thread until just now, apologies OP- didn't want to leave you high and dry.


With the stat changes, corruption builds aren't really optional anymore. You really do not have any choice but to slot 6 crit and 3 of each mitigation (at least until they decide to fix creep stats). If you know you will be fighting a physical class (champ) or a tactical class (RK), then 4 of a mit, and 2 morale. Other than that, you should ALWAYS have 6 crit, and 3 of each mitigation.

In terms of other corruptions, I'll list the ones I use, and give a short bit on why I use them.

Race:

Pack Elder. No debate here, 7.5% physical mitigation is a necessity.
Pack Hunter. Great skill for massive debuff, some folks have the Howl of Unnerving Fear slotted instead. Both are useful- personal preference.
Pack Alpha./Pack Mentality Stats didn't scale well at all, you can swap this one for Howl of Unnerving or Foe of the Light, if you want
Four Legged Foe. A must for the run speed.

Class:

Enhanced Disappear: A must
Enhanced Sprint: Another must
Enhanced Stealth: obviously
Armor Boost: Big mistake to not slot this. Bumps both of your mits up by 5-6%
The Element of Surprise: A Must
Long Strides: Run speed is always a must
Enhanced Eye Rake: Increases DPS by a chunk, a must

Only time you'd run anything different is if you were running Flayer (in which you'd swap Enhanced Stealth for Enhanced Flayer) or were hunting burg packs (swap enhanced sprint with enhanced sense prey). Everything else is too valuable to lose.

Hope this helps.

Absolutely! THANKS.

[Nouri]

Spilo's warg kicks my butt.... do what he says

[Dotlbeme]

Switched out to 6 crit, 3 each of Phys/Tac

Are you sure about Enhanced Eye Rake? The tool tip only says it reduces the CD on Eye Rake. How does this improve damage for other skills? (Or is it just the fact that you can use eye rake more?)

Also some discussion of skill rotation might prove useful now...

If I remember to toggle shadow I do a lot better lol...Could not figure out why I hit for 3K out of stealth and then 300-500s...oops...not in shadow..visiting the creep fixer untoggles all your skills...

For initial hit on non burg: Pounce, Claws...then...(Frenzy?) mash buttons?

For hit on burg who is partially down would use Claws? (i.e a non stun)

[Spilo]

Switched out to 6 crit, 3 each of Phys/Tac

Are you sure about Enhanced Eye Rake? The tool tip only says it reduces the CD on Eye Rake. How does this improve damage for other skills? (Or is it just the fact that you can use eye rake more?)

Also some discussion of skill rotation might prove useful now...

If I remember to toggle shadow I do a lot better lol...Could not figure out why I hit for 3K out of stealth and then 300-500s...oops...not in shadow..visiting the creep fixer untoggles all your skills...

For initial hit on non burg: Pounce, Claws...then...(Frenzy?) mash buttons?

For hit on burg who is partially down would use Claws? (i.e a non stun)

If you've got time to kill, I have 3 Warg tutorials out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgrl2RIGgj8

This one is a bit outdated in terms of corruption build, but the class strategies and rotation is mostly up to date

And two others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QknHf7ohmGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGowiayo0ck



Enhanced eye rake allows chaining of skills together, more on that in the first video. If you have time to watch these videos (especially the first one) and still have questions, let me know! I can go more in-depth.

[Dotlbeme]

Thanks Spilo. Good info. I will be moving Eye Rake closer to Claws on my skills bar.

Now I just have to train to be able to spot the various buffs. I can try that by watching a group of freeps taking a keep sometimes, see if I can reckon their buffs.

Most of the freeps these days (with some notable exceptions) are not as competent as the ones in the videos. Strategy now is just to avoid the good ones until I can practice up...

[Spilo]

Thanks Spilo. Good info. I will be moving Eye Rake closer to Claws on my skills bar.

Now I just have to train to be able to spot the various buffs. I can try that by watching a group of freeps taking a keep sometimes, see if I can reckon their buffs.

Most of the freeps these days (with some notable exceptions) are not as competent as the ones in the videos. Strategy now is just to avoid the good ones until I can practice up...

I'd suggest not worrying too much about buffs or such until you have got your rotation down decently. A good rotation is more important than good situational/class awareness. Good luck, and let me know if I can clarify anything for you.

[Rebnosity]

There's some really solid advice here. Thanks for sharing, this was helpful!

[Onror]

Somehow missed the updates to this thread until just now, apologies OP- didn't want to leave you high and dry.


With the stat changes, corruption builds aren't really optional anymore. You really do not have any choice but to slot 6 crit and 3 of each mitigation (at least until they decide to fix creep stats). If you know you will be fighting a physical class (champ) or a tactical class (RK), then 4 of a mit, and 2 morale. Other than that, you should ALWAYS have 6 crit, and 3 of each mitigation.

In terms of other corruptions, I'll list the ones I use, and give a short bit on why I use them.

Race:

Pack Elder. No debate here, 7.5% physical mitigation is a necessity.
Pack Hunter. Great skill for massive debuff, some folks have the Howl of Unnerving Fear slotted instead. Both are useful- personal preference.
Pack Alpha./Pack Mentality Stats didn't scale well at all, you can swap this one for Howl of Unnerving or Foe of the Light, if you want
Four Legged Foe. A must for the run speed.

Class:

Enhanced Disappear: A must
Enhanced Sprint: Another must
Enhanced Stealth: obviously
Armor Boost: Big mistake to not slot this. Bumps both of your mits up by 5-6%
The Element of Surprise: A Must
Long Strides: Run speed is always a must
Enhanced Eye Rake: Increases DPS by a chunk, a must

Only time you'd run anything different is if you were running Flayer (in which you'd swap Enhanced Stealth for Enhanced Flayer) or were hunting burg packs (swap enhanced sprint with enhanced sense prey). Everything else is too valuable to lose.

Hope this helps.

Superb advice!

The only thing I'd add is that Enhanced Sense Prey is a must, in my opinion, given the current popularity of stealthed Burglars, Hunters & Wardens.

(But this might not be the case on every server.)

[Ionlyzerg]

Superb advice!

The only thing I'd add is that Enhanced Sense Prey is a must, in my opinion, given the current popularity of stealthed Burglars, Hunters & Wardens.

(But this might not be the case on every server.)

I assure you, it is the case on every server.

[Dotlbeme]

Superb advice!

The only thing I'd add is that Enhanced Sense Prey is a must, in my opinion, given the current popularity of stealthed Burglars, Hunters & Wardens.

(But this might not be the case on every server.)

What do you switch out for ESP? I tend to switch it in IF I know there are burgs around (not always the case).

[Spilo]

What do you switch out for ESP? I tend to switch it in IF I know there are burgs around (not always the case).

Probably sprint.