PvMP fast balance passes

[Ionlyzerg]

You need to learn that if you disagree with Snowlock, it's probably because you are part of an intergalactic conspiracy, and are most likely evil. You are an evil person for making a mistake, and you made it on purpose.

Nice use of your second forum account, Spilo. +rep

[ScribeEzra]

I'm on my 4th account and completely disagree with posts i posted on my 2nd and 3rd but agree entirely with the sentiment of my firsts.

[A_N_D_R_E]

Just look at this video how op defiler heals are. At approx 37 min into the video, one defiler manages to interupt a 6 man group. Manages to out heal all damage they try to make. Also manages to heal a warg that shows up at times so that the freeps can't kill either of them. It's insane. No solo character, creep or freep should be able to solo take on a whole fellowship without problem. The power hardly even goes down. Later wargs and this defiler manages to wipe whole freep fellowship. Sure doesn't seem balanced to me. In here in posts some make it sound like creeps can be one shotted by any freep. This is not the case at all. Wargs and defilers are really op. Glad I found this video. If I just post that this is the case some will say it's not true. Here it is plain to see how op defilers heals are. Zonflux (one of the freeps and his fellowship) is not some noob. He is a very capable player and one if the best tanks I've seen. Best on guardian but have experience in more classes.

https://youtu.be/RYgb7jCEUn4?t=37m28s

If just boosting creep stats you will make defilers and wargs even more op.

I didn't see any dps at this video. even my grandma can damage better. 2-3 normal (even not good) dps can kill any defiler so there's no reason to panic about defiler's heal

[searingskitso]

First and foremost, you need to fix the lag in the moors.

Creepside in general-
The idea that we need to Trade positive for negative is gone.
all coruptions, racials, skill traits need to be buffed.
all values should be transitioned into flat % buffs. with multiple stats being buffed per slot.

Example. mastery corruption change. (works as healing also.)
+20% damage
+10% crit
+5% crit damage
+4% Finesse

3 set
Each hit heals you for 2% morale
6 set
Crits add a damage reducing buff of 2% that stacks up to x10 for 18s

See how strong this is? now make all corruptions based off this method. This will offer a future proofing to creepside traits so that your next update that scales us up to 150 or w/e wont require but a simple buff to base stats of creeps. WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER.

You will need to hire about 24 people full time to QA this. QA is #1 that makes a great game, and that side of development is typically treated the worst from an employment stand point. Contracted workers that are seen as disposable are not going to give you the product you want.

If you dont have the $ in budget for this then you should ignore pvmp and focus 100% on pve.

[Seglord]

First and foremost, you need to fix the lag in the moors.

Creepside in general-
The idea that we need to Trade positive for negative is gone.
all coruptions, racials, skill traits need to be buffed.
all values should be transitioned into flat % buffs. with multiple stats being buffed per slot.

Example. mastery corruption change. (works as healing also.)
+20% damage
+10% crit
+5% crit damage
+4% Finesse

3 set
Each hit heals you for 2% morale
6 set
Crits add a damage reducing buff of 2% that stacks up to x10 for 18s

See how strong this is? now make all corruptions based off this method. This will offer a future proofing to creepside traits so that your next update that scales us up to 150 or w/e wont require but a simple buff to base stats of creeps. WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER.

You will need to hire about 24 people full time to QA this. QA is #1 that makes a great game, and that side of development is typically treated the worst from an employment stand point. Contracted workers that are seen as disposable are not going to give you the product you want.

If you dont have the $ in budget for this then you should ignore pvmp and focus 100% on pve.

From the start I was amused, and then you got to the hire 24 people full time, and it became hysterically funny

[subadar]

I wonder if SSG even has 24 full time employee's?

[DrRabbitfoot]

Played the last 3 nights for the first time in a month. The game is even worse now. Nothing but burgs and baiters out now and the imbalance is worse. Only the most disgusting trash playing freep now (with a few exceptions).

To make it worse, the same moron is still on here talking about wargs/claws and has no clue how much more harm he's done than good. Again, I absolutely hate the people that brought the game to this point and even if they brought pvmp back to it's former glory, I would never, ever given SSG another dome of my money. Any effort now is too little and far too late.

[Spilo]

Played the last 3 nights for the first time in a month. The game is even worse now. Nothing but burgs and baiters out now and the imbalance is worse. Only the most disgusting trash playing freep now (with a few exceptions).

To make it worse, the same moron is still on here talking about wargs/claws and has no clue how much more harm he's done than good. Again, I absolutely hate the people that brought the game to this point and even if they brought pvmp back to it's former glory, I would never, ever given SSG another dome of my money. Any effort now is too little and far too late.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rical-Feedback

[lance20100]

First and foremost, you need to fix the lag in the moors.

Creepside in general-
The idea that we need to Trade positive for negative is gone.
all coruptions, racials, skill traits need to be buffed.
all values should be transitioned into flat % buffs. with multiple stats being buffed per slot.

Example. mastery corruption change. (works as healing also.)
+20% damage
+10% crit
+5% crit damage
+4% Finesse

3 set
Each hit heals you for 2% morale
6 set
Crits add a damage reducing buff of 2% that stacks up to x10 for 18s

See how strong this is? now make all corruptions based off this method. This will offer a future proofing to creepside traits so that your next update that scales us up to 150 or w/e wont require but a simple buff to base stats of creeps. WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER.

You will need to hire about 24 people full time to QA this. QA is #1 that makes a great game, and that side of development is typically treated the worst from an employment stand point. Contracted workers that are seen as disposable are not going to give you the product you want.

If you dont have the $ in budget for this then you should ignore pvmp and focus 100% on pve.

good point and good idea. couldn't agree more... but it's still not gonna happen cuz they dgaf

[DrRabbitfoot]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rical-Feedback

To be clear: anyone talking about wargs in any way whatsoever in the current incarnation of the 'moors is an absolute idiot.

[Constrictions]

To be clear: anyone talking about wargs in any way whatsoever in the current incarnation of the 'moors is an absolute idiot.

Go back to trolling bronzies in League, your kind is not welcome here.

[searingskitso]

From the start I was amused, and then you got to the hire 24 people full time, and it became hysterically funny

Thank Sauron someone got happiness from it.

[WhiteGoliath]

moors is beyond saving, all abandon ship!!

I have no hopes anymore, after I saw em destroying PvMP and not to forget, bringing in super p2w lootboxes with exploitable blacksteel keys.

[Giliodor]

I think it's disgraceful that they are going to let the BR version of creeps go live. It's a complete disaster, showcasing the incompetence of the developers of this game. Nothing has been fixed about creeps, it's been made worse, if anything. On top of that, freeps are going to receive a power increase.

I don't doubt Vastin's good intentions, but it has been made abundantly clear that he cannot fix PvMP by himself, and he does not listen to feedback (not nearly enough). I was optimistic, but now it's time to be realistic.

[Spilo]

I think it's disgraceful that they are going to let the BR version of creeps go live. It's a complete disaster, showcasing the incompetence of the developers of this game. Nothing has been fixed about creeps, it's been made worse, if anything. On top of that, freeps are going to receive a power increase.

I don't doubt Vastin's good intentions, but it has been made abundantly clear that he cannot fix PvMP by himself, and he does not listen to feedback (not nearly enough). I was optimistic, but now it's time to be realistic.

I have to concur. To get good floor, you have to tear up the carpet, and put in the new one. This update just stopped after they tore up the carpet, and now we have a bare floor. We're really no better off than we were pre-update.

If SSG can't devote time to balancing Raid or PvMP, then they need to stop pretending that it's a serious concern, because misleading thousands of folks about intentions or capabilities isn't putting on a professional face anymore, it's disingenuous to a very patient playerbase.

[Tirn]

I have to concur. To get good floor, you have to tear up the carpet, and put in the new one. This update just stopped after they tore up the carpet, and now we have a bare floor. We're really no better off than we were pre-update.

If SSG can't devote time to balancing Raid or PvMP, then they need to stop pretending that it's a serious concern, because misleading thousands of folks about intentions or capabilities isn't putting on a professional face anymore, it's disingenuous to a very patient playerbase.

I told you both what would happen . I will log on to see just how bad it is but one line in the release notes compared to the rest of the notes says it all really .

Im sorry if I insulted either of you it’s my frustration at what’s going on that’s all . Its not your fault at least you tried .

[Spilo]

I told you both what would happen . I will log on to see just how bad it is but one line in the release notes compared to the rest of the notes says it all really .

Im sorry if I insulted either of you it’s my frustration at what’s going on that’s all . Its not your fault at least you tried .

No worries, it's a frustrating situation. I was optimistic, but all for naught. I'd continue to be optimistic if we had communication from Vastin that future work is in progress to fix the Mits/audacity but we've had no such communication.

[Giliodor]

I told you both what would happen . I will log on to see just how bad it is but one line in the release notes compared to the rest of the notes says it all really .

Im sorry if I insulted either of you it’s my frustration at what’s going on that’s all . Its not your fault at least you tried .

As I said, I was optimistic at first. That is so unlike me, to begin with... And now I once again know why. Of course I knew that it wasn't going to go the way we wanted. But that doesn't prevent us from trying. And yes, we did try. To no avail. I don't hold a grudge against you for "insulting" me, so don't worry about that. It's the internet.

[Bagrash]

They buffed mitigations, not mastery, its way better than last beta, the complete remove from incoming healing on our rank bonus is the biggest problem now.
Edit: Not for all classes it seems, but reaver has definitely more tactical mitigation than before. Dont know what values they changed again.

[Spilo]

They buffed mitigations, not mastery, its way better than last beta, the complete remove from incoming healing on our rank bonus is the biggest problem now.
Edit: Not for all classes it seems, but reaver has definitely more tactical mitigation than before. Dont know what values they changed again.

They buffed mitigations to such an insignificant level, that it doesn't matter.

[Magnumum]

I went to play for free by going to the monster side (lol)

[Cedrozzi]

Here are some quotes from Vastin Oct 12 2017, 06:42 PM

"As you can no doubt tell, we've been going through the motions but PvMP has been overlooked for a while"
" the creeps have nevertheless been left behind"
"It'll be fun"
" with your feedback we can get the ettenmoors back into a competitive shape"
" it's much easier to manage balance when the two sides are using sets of numbers that at least resemble each other"
"It'll be fun"
"First pass will be a pretty major bump to creep DPS"
" the players stat jumps outpaced the relatively few sources that creeps are designed with."
"It'll be fun"

So, first thing is first. Is everyone having fun?
Are you creeps, aka customers of the company, having fun?
Is it fun to pay money and use a product where they "go through the motions"? Does it make you feel good inside to "be left behind", "overlooked"?
Are you feeling good that with your feedback, we will now have "the ettenmoors back into a competitive shape"
How is the "pretty major bump to creep DPS" affecting your fun level?


This is one of worst examples of false hope and blowing smoke up a rear end I've ever seen. A company offers a flat out admission of treating a portion of a customer base with intentional disregard, a flat out admission that a company, development team, and whoever else involved of "going through the motions". It's incredible to think you honestly expect people to spend money on your company and be a customer of your company that "goes through the motions", admits it (with no apology), publicly says they're going to fix it, and then does next to nothing over 7 test builds except possibly breaking it more, and then releases it. That's insane!

This could all be (and hopefully will be) considered an overreaction of course if we were to see some communication that is favorable and in the end, a true fix actually occurs. If so, I will take it all back.

To whoever reads that cares with this company, here is some free advice basic public relations/customer service 101 for you. Heck, i'll even write it for you.

Hey folks, Vastin (or whoever) here
I messed around with some stuff and as you can see, things are still terribly messed up and most likely, worse. I played around with some numbers and then got too busy with the holidays and all, so just said the heck with it for now. This update needed to go live for other more important to the masses stuff to get in the game. With that said, I want everyone to know that we here at SSG and I personally am committed to what I said, "things are going to get fixed". I am going to continue to make adjustments, solicit feedback, and now with that other stuff in the game, the focus will primarily be on this and we will make amends for treating you monster players like garbage. We are sorry and respect your patience and patronage. It's incumbent on us and us alone at SSG to win back your trust by communicating better and never going through the motions or leaving you behind again. This was poor service and not something that can happen again, we know this. We appreciate your business, we appreciate your patience, and we appreciate you sticking with us. I can assure you and can make a promise right now that by no means are we or I done working on pvp, and in fact, it is now on the top of the board of things to be worked on. We respectfully ask you all to hang in there a little longer, keep testing the upcoming builds, give us feedback, etc. How about this as an aside, once we can finally get balance somewhat figured out, there has been discussion about doing some different things (outside of balance issues) to pvmp, but that is secondary and down the road a bit. Again, sorry this hasn't happened as fast as I wanted it to, and sorry it just isn't up to anyone's standards. You have our word, this is still a work in progress and by no means finished.

[ScribeEzra]

the above reply just about nails everything , I don't need to add anymore, if your not 'HAVING FUN' or think 'CREEP DPS' hasn't been put on a par with Freeps then you SHOULD CANCEL your VIPS now...I had 2 VIP accounts and see no further reason to maintain ANY of them, since I only pay VIP to access 6 CREEP classes, I'm cancelling them both, they had their chance with this round of BETA'S...they blew it, boy did they blow it. RIP LOTRO, know where you lost it!

[Magnumum]

I do not cancel the vip, I love playing freeps ... just watch the courses, when I fight a monster or 2 with my guardian, often I fall on 5.6-8, 12 etc ((Mister defiler)) it is motivating at times ...

[Magnumum]

Yesterday , I saw a menestrel rank 15 being beaten by a warg rank 9 only ... there is enough to ask questions !