@ Cordovan, Quick question Re: Patch notes

[Arnenna]

With regard to this, in the patch notes.

"

• All bosses in the Tier 2 Dungeons of Naerband and Court of Seregost instances now have an increased chance of dropping Incomparable gear.
• Naerband and Seregost instance chests now have a one-day lock on them to allow for a very large increase in drop rates."

Does this mean that only Tier 2 will have the locks, being as it's only T2 that is getting the increased drop rates? Or is T1 getting an increased drop rate also (obviously to a lesser extent and lesser gears)?

If there is to be no increased drop rate in Tier 1, why are locks being added to that tier? T1 drop rates are already abysmally low, and with a lock, and zero increase, you may as well remove the tier as this change will make it obsolete.

Or is it only the T2 crowd that matter here nowadays?

[Lord.Funk]

I'm sad to say it Arnenna but at this point it's pointless to expect a reply on most things that acctually answer any question at hand.

When finally a reply is made it's usually wrong or clear to see that whoever replies from staff don't even play their own game, except possibly in some god mode where they can't be beaten and don't know how it acctually is to play and gear up. Or they misunderstand the questions completely. Mostly though, all You will get is silencs and no reply at all. At least now we know that WB probably wasn't the problem in the past. As You've noticed I've barely been on lately or even bothered to post. I see no point. I log in more like it's some habbit, do some festival quests on an alt I created then log off. Not logging on because I expect to have fun anymore. Just to grind something for an alt (like festival mounts) but often get bored before too long. See no goals as end-game is shot to pieces once more with the whole LoE system (that many call radiance 2.0) just as it was with Radiance 1.0. I thought the LoE system it was Ok'ish at first as You could acctually obtain ash and gear up without insane gated instance grind. I thought they had learned from the mistakes in the past with radiance. But since SSG now say that was not intended, I can now say that I think this is even worse than radiance ever was. I didnt think that was possible. The 1-day locks, account bound keys, ashable gear drop removed from everywhere except a few instances that have 1 day locks etc, has just made this the worst progression system to date imo.

I have given up as with no end goal that I can ever reach without having to buy keys for lootboxes and gamble, I feel it's pointless to even play. Sure I can fluff around and play old low level content or festivals but when I can never fully enjoy the entire smorgosbord I'm not gonna pay for just being able to eat a few pieces of it. I rather go somewhere else (play other games) then or eat at home (find a new hobby to focus on with my son). That is how I feel atm. Very depressing for sure. With fewer and fewer people I know logging in there's not even that aspect of it anymore. They have left for the same reasons I explain. I might log in and do some festival stuff or hook up with You and the few that still plays on my friendslist but my whole enthusiasm has been taken away.

I have even bought the two 27" Predator ISP monitors with Gsync and all (got a deal on black friday). Bought parts for a 3rd new PC. I guess my son will make use of those in other games now. I was so looking forward to playing LoTRO in Ultra High rez on 1440p. That enthusiasm was just like a month ago before this whole new update and it's notes starting surfacing. I was enthusiastic and praised LoTRO. Tried to be helpful in threads to players who had problems logging in or getting LoTRO to even run. I defended LoTRO in comments on YouTubers channels when others dissed LoTRO there. Now I just feel like the air has went out of me. Like a baloon a week after a party is over that no one bothered to take down. All wrinkled.

It is clear that we don't matter to SSG or Daybreak, other than seen as walking wallets possibly. Our feedback is mostly ignored. They will push the changes they want no matter what many of us think. Such a shame. This is supposed to be middle-earth. The place where we fight greed and corruption. The place where we can escape the real lufe hassles and enjoy ourselevs for some time without being reminded about all the #### in real life. Without being reminded that it's all a world run by corporations that sees us as cattle they can heard into their consumerism fold. That escape is not anymore in LoTRO it seems.

I'm really saddened by all this. It will pass. After all it's "just" a game, a product, and maybe I was at fault for getting attached to it and seeing it as bit more than that. My error I guess.

[Arnenna]

I'm sad to say it Arnenna but at this point it's pointless to expect a reply on most things that acctually answer any question at hand.

When finally a reply is made it's usually wrong or clear to see that whoever replies from staff don't even play their own game, except possibly in some god mode where they can't be beaten and don't know how it acctually is to play and gear up. Or they misunderstand the questions completely. Mostly though, all You will get is silencs and no reply at all. At least now we know that WB probably wasn't the problem in the past. As You've noticed I've barely been on lately or even bothered to post. I see no point. I log in more like it's some habbit, do some festival quests on an alt I created then log off. Not logging on because I expect to have fun anymore. Just to grind something for an alt (like festival mounts) but often get bored before too long. See no goals as end-game is shot to pieces once more with the whole LoE system (that many call radiance 2.0) just as it was with Radiance 1.0. I thought the LoE system it was Ok'ish at first as You could acctually obtain ash and gear up without insane gated instance grind. I thought they had learned from the mistakes in the past with radiance. But since SSG now say that was not intended, I can now say that I think this is even worse than radiance ever was. I didnt think that was possible. The 1-day locks, account bound keys, ashable gear drop removed from everywhere except a few instances that have 1 day locks etc, has just made this the worst progression system to date imo.

I have given up as with no end goal that I can ever reach without having to buy keys for lootboxes and gamble, I feel it's pointless to even play. Sure I can fluff around and play old low level content or festivals but when I can never fully enjoy the entire smorgosbord I'm not gonna pay for just being able to eat a few pieces of it. I rather go somewhere else (play other games) then or eat at home (find a new hobby to focus on with my son). That is how I feel atm. Very depressing for sure. With fewer and fewer people I know logging in there's not even that aspect of it anymore. They have left for the same reasons I explain. I might log in and do some festival stuff or hook up with You and the few that still plays on my friendslist but my whole enthusiasm has been taken away.

I have even bought the two 27" Predator ISP monitors with Gsync and all (got a deal on black friday). Bought parts for a 3rd new PC. I guess my son will make use of those in other games now. I was so looking forward to playing LoTRO in Ultra High rez on 1440p. That enthusiasm was just like a month ago before this whole new update and it's notes starting surfacing. I was enthusiastic and praised LoTRO. Tried to be helpful in threads to players who had problems logging in or getting LoTRO to even run. I defended LoTRO in comments on YouTubers channels when others dissed LoTRO there. Now I just feel like the air has went out of me. Like a baloon a week after a party is over that no one bothered to take down. All wrinkled.

It is clear that we don't matter to SSG or Daybreak, other than seen as walking wallets possibly. Our feedback is mostly ignored. They will push the changes they want no matter what many of us think. Such a shame. This is supposed to be middle-earth. The place where we fight greed and corruption. The place where we can escape the real lufe hassles and enjoy ourselevs for some time without being reminded about all the #### in real life. Without being reminded that it's all a world run by corporations that sees us as cattle they can heard into their consumerism fold. That escape is not anymore in LoTRO it seems.

I'm really saddened by all this. It will pass. After all it's "just" a game, a product, and maybe I was at fault for getting attached to it and seeing it as bit more than that. My error I guess.

I'm not really expecting an answer, it's the weekend and by the time they read any feedback on anything in the notes at all, the servers will be coming down for the patch.

My post was just to point things out really, like, how one tier is getting locks, because of increased drop rates, but the other tier isn't getting such increases. Presumably, if it were, they wouldn't have added "T2" to the notes.

The good old pendulum swings, again. I think they're swinging it too far this time though.

[Sebastian_Hedgehog]

It is clear that we don't matter to SSG or Daybreak, other than seen as walking wallets possibly. Our feedback is mostly ignored.

I think it's something to do with the fact that they never have to deal with the queries or complaints of their customers 'face to face'. You tend to have a bit more respect for a customer if you have to be in the same room with them. In most face to face scenarios, a company representative would 'bend over backwards' to keep the customers happy, and would certainly not ignore their concerns. But Lotro players aren't 'real people'.

There also seems to be a little bit of masochism at work with some Lotro players: They are treated badly, they know they are treated badly, they say they are treated badly, yet they can't bear to walk away, because they hope things may change. The same mechanics are at work in an abusive relationship. The Lotro player can feel that if they leave, there will be 'nothing', and the world as they know it will cease. All good things must eventually come to an end.

[Lord.Funk]

I'm not really expecting an answer, it's the weekend and by the time they read any feedback on anything in the notes at all, the servers will be coming down for the patch.

My post was just to point things out really, like, how one tier is getting locks, because of increased drop rates, but the other tier isn't getting such increases. Presumably, if it were, they wouldn't have added "T2" to the notes.

The good old pendulum swings, again. I think they're swinging it too far this time though.

I think in the +Cord of the Rings stream Cordovan said that locks will be per tier. So T1 will have a 1-day chest lock and T2 will have 1-day chest lock. So You can run it twice. Once on T1, once on T2. Still no word on if T1 will have same ###### loot but I suspect it will. Also if You help a LvL 105 run it, that probably means You wasted Your daily lock and can't get rewards that same day for 115. So good luck for lower levels to get any help. Unless someone is willing to help after they ran their daily 115 and then just run it to help without getting any rewards at all.

I think it's something to do with the fact that they never have to deal with the queries or complaints of their customers 'face to face'. You tend to have a bit more respect for a customer if you have to be in the same room with them. In most face to face scenarios, a company representative would 'bend over backwards' to keep the customers happy, and would certainly not ignore their concerns. But Lotro players aren't 'real people'.

There also seems to be a little bit of masochism at work with some Lotro players: They are treated badly, they know they are treated badly, they say they are treated badly, yet they can't bear to walk away, because they hope things may change. The same mechanics are at work in an abusive relationship. The Lotro player can feel that if they leave, there will be 'nothing', and the world as they know it will cease. All good things must eventually come to an end.

Yeah, this whole thing is so sad. I met a guy I acctually got to know about 2 years ago in these forums. I saw from his posts, from trace routers he posted, that he probably lived in same country as me, possibly even same city as me from some other things he mentioned like his local ISP. Many of the larger newly build apartment houses in our city use that ISP system. He had problems logging on back then. I PM'ed him and we hook up irl. He even came over to our place and tried his account from one of our PCs to see if he could get in etc. We haven't been that active in staying in contact though after that but still. Hokked up a few times irl. We met for a coffee today. He was so frustrated with this whole situation and even posted while we had our coffee. He borrowed my phone to post, as his monthly mobile surf limit was reached. I have a larger monthly limit as I refuse public wi-fi hotspots. I went with a Latte made on wheat "milk". Was acctually a kinda interesting taste. He asked me to post as well but I was not even in the mood to bother posting then. I said to him that it's pointless. They don't care or listen. If they acctually do read they still ignore it and go ahead and implement the update, so the result is the same as if they don't listen.

[Arnenna]

I think in the +Cord of the Rings stream Cordovan said that locks will be per tier. So T1 will have a 1-day chest lock and T2 will have 1-day chest lock. So You can run it twice. Once on T1, once on T2. Still no word on if T1 will have same ###### loot but I suspect it will. Also if You help a LvL 105 run it, that probably means You wasted Your daily lock and can't get rewards that same day for 115. So good luck for lower levels to get any help. Unless someone is willing to help after they ran their daily 115 and then just run it to help without getting any rewards at all.

Depending on how the chest lock works, it may be detrimental to many players looking for groups. If the lock means a chest cannot be opened by a player with the lock, but can by others who haven't yet run the instance, that's one thing, but if its a lock that prevents the chest from spawning at all, which gets inherited by other players, then, this will be a massive nail in the coffin of grouping.

For some players, the result of this change will be, log in, do dailies (15 mins), do instances (half an hour), log off. On the bright side though, they may have shot themselves in the foot. People who want the BiS gear want it to guess what? Run the harder content. When the harder content is restricted to this, they probably won't be so keen to get the BiS gear. Result, less lootboxes opened and hopefully, the death of the cycle.

[Cordovan]

Every tier has a huge drop rate increase, which is why the daily chest locks are being implemented.

[JeauxLOTR]

Huge increase - Great. But much was left unanswered.

Are the Locks for each Tier? - Run any one of them and you are locked out of the remaining ones?

Are Locks inherited?

Always partial answers.

[Arnenna]

Every tier has a huge drop rate increase, which is why the daily chest locks are being implemented.

Could you clear that up in the notes then please? The notes specify an increased drop rate in T2.

"

• All bosses in the Tier 2 Dungeons of Naerband and Court of Seregost instances now have an increased chance of dropping Incomparable gear.
• Naerband and Seregost instance chests now have a one-day lock on them to allow for a very large increase in drop rates."

I take it from "All bosses" that it means the actual rewards will drop into the chests, and not directly into bags off boss kills?

And as per the poster above me and my earlier point: Are locks inherited?

[Remileth]

Hope it won't be like FI where you get the loot directly upon completion. Something else that isn't clear, are the locks applied when you kill the boss or only when you loot the chest? Can you still alt for loot or you need to have that toon in the instance when the boss is killed?

[Oelle]

Hope it won't be like FI where you get the loot directly upon completion. Something else that isn't clear, are the locks applied when you kill the boss or only when you loot the chest? Can you still alt for loot or you need to have that toon in the instance when the boss is killed?

Why are people like this?
It was obviously never the intention to switch characters for loot. If it was, the loot would be accountbound. Running instances with one toon and switching for another for loot has to stop.

[Remileth]

Why are people like this?
It was obviously never the intention to switch characters for loot. If it was, the loot would be accountbound. Running instances with one toon and switching for another for loot has to stop.

Even if switching to a character on the same account?

I'm fine if it will only drop for the character that completed the boss, but just wanted to clarify since it wasn't clear in the patch notes.

[Hallandil]

Hope it won't be like FI where you get the loot directly upon completion. Something else that isn't clear, are the locks applied when you kill the boss or only when you loot the chest? Can you still alt for loot or you need to have that toon in the instance when the boss is killed?

The locks are applied upon opening the chest. Whatever ability to alt or swap around remains the same.

[Arnenna]

The locks are applied upon opening the chest. Whatever ability to alt or swap around remains the same.

So the changes they made to Throne, to prevent the selling of chest rolls for t2 gear, has been undone for the new instances and raid? Or does the loot rule that a player has to be present for the boss kill to open the chest still apply?

[SirVile]

For some players, the result of this change will be, log in, do dailies (15 mins), do instances (half an hour), log off.

That's certainly what I'm planning to do. As will many others I know from my kinship and raid group.
Why should we do more? Where is the incentive? I know several players who stopped playing just
because of the way the New Avatars were implemented. SSG: the gang who couldn't Code straight.

On the bright side though, they may have shot themselves in the foot. People who want the BiS gear want it to guess what? Run the harder content. When the harder content is restricted to this, they probably won't be so keen to get the BiS gear. Result, less lootboxes opened and hopefully, the death of the cycle.

Yah. Or the death of the game. Enough of shooting oneself in the foot can lead to Gangrene.
Reading Lord.Funk's responses above was depressing: he was a bright and peppy LOTRO booster;
now, just as with happened to me, Denhith, and so many others, he's had the Enthusiasm kicked
right out of him by the ABSOLUTELY BONEHEADED decisions SSG have made since Mordor plonked
onto the scene.

[Arnenna]

Reading Lord.Funk's responses above was depressing: he was a bright and peppy LOTRO booster;
now, just as with happened to me, Denhith, and so many others, he's had the Enthusiasm kicked
right out of him

Yes, it is sad indeed. I haven't long met him in game, and he is lovely. We planned to play alot of content together, but alas, this has really got to him and I rarely see him online now, and I never see his son now. Not that I log in as much as I used to either.

[SirVile]

Yes, it is sad indeed. I haven't long met him in game, and he is lovely. We planned to play alot of content together, but alas, this has really got to him and I rarely see him online now, and I never see his son now. Not that I log in as much as I used to either.

Arnenna. I am replying 'with quote' as opposed of 'to thread' specifically to catch your attention:

I have friends in this game. Not 'LOTRO Friends' or 'Online Friends', but real, genuine,
bona fide Life Friends. We know each other's stories, we contact each other by phone
and text, we send each other presents - we are friends.

And I am going to keep trying to fight to retain this thing that brought us together, this shared
community of Tolkien Enthusiast Gamers. I am going to keep TRYING to smash some sense into
the people who have the greatest stake in LOTRO - the developers and maintainers of the game.

God knows, it hasn't worked so far. But, I am not Alone. So long as folk like you, Lord.Funk,
Denhith, Hurin, Silmerin, and others continue to pound, and pound, and pound on their door,
shouting our outrage as loudly as we can, there is a chance they will finally hear, and change
their incredibly dense, thick minds, and thus save both their revenue source and our status
as paying customers.

It worked - after years of Trying - with Amazon. They finally decided to rid themselves of
the Fake Reviews that plagued their customers. And for all those years, they kept billing
themselves as 'The World's Most Customer-Centric Business'. What a joke! But through
the constant onslaught of complaints, largely by Book Customers, the fact of what was
happening finally broke through their corporate walls and top-tier ignorance and now they
are weeding and purging the biased, fake reviews almost as fast as they are created.

If it can work with Jeff Bezos and mighty Amazon then it might work with SSG.

So I ask you NOT to abandon the game entirely. And not to stop posting in these fora.
With as much as we have invested - just in monetary terms - over the years, this is our
LOTRO as much as it is the devs. And the thing is, if they would listen to us, their player
base would expand and they would increase the revenue they are Reaching so badly to
acquire. So keep fighting; snap them out of the death spiral. Never give up. Never give in.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I'm really saddened by all this. It will pass. After all it's "just" a game, a product, and maybe I was at fault for getting attached to it and seeing it as bit more than that. My error I guess.

It's not your fault, and even if it was you're not the only one. Many of us have strong emotional attachments to this game, to the community and to our friends who played and still play. There was a time in my life, say 6 years ago when I so so into the game & the kin I was in that it almost cost me my marriage and my family - I met up with a friend in the kin and had a 2 year affair with her. Sometimes when you're in deep it's hard to pull oneself away and move on. But since then, all the old friends no longer play, the kin is dead and thankfully my marriage survived. What I'm trying to say is that the game is not important, it's the relationships with people that are, and those bonds can exist outside of this once great mmo that's now firmly in the Z list.

[Arnenna]

Arnenna. I am replying 'with quote' as opposed of 'to thread' specifically to catch your attention:

I have friends in this game. Not 'LOTRO Friends' or 'Online Friends', but real, genuine,
bona fide Life Friends. We know each other's stories, we contact each other by phone
and text, we send each other presents - we are friends.

And I am going to keep trying to fight to retain this thing that brought us together, this shared
community of Tolkien Enthusiast Gamers. I am going to keep TRYING to smash some sense into
the people who have the greatest stake in LOTRO - the developers and maintainers of the game.

God knows, it hasn't worked so far. But, I am not Alone. So long as folk like you, Lord.Funk,
Denhith, Hurin, Silmerin, and others continue to pound, and pound, and pound on their door,
shouting our outrage as loudly as we can, there is a chance they will finally hear, and change
their incredibly dense, thick minds, and thus save both their revenue source and our status
as paying customers.

It worked - after years of Trying - with Amazon. They finally decided to rid themselves of
the Fake Reviews that plagued their customers. And for all those years, they kept billing
themselves as 'The World's Most Customer-Centric Business'. What a joke! But through
the constant onslaught of complaints, largely by Book Customers, the fact of what was
happening finally broke through their corporate walls and top-tier ignorance and now they
are weeding and purging the biased, fake reviews almost as fast as they are created.

If it can work with Jeff Bezos and mighty Amazon then it might work with SSG.

So I ask you NOT to abandon the game entirely. And not to stop posting in these fora.
With as much as we have invested - just in monetary terms - over the years, this is our
LOTRO as much as it is the devs. And the thing is, if they would listen to us, their player
base would expand and they would increase the revenue they are Reaching so badly to
acquire. So keep fighting; snap them out of the death spiral. Never give up. Never give in.

I had quite a few RL friends in the game too, but sadly, they've all left (the game, not the friendship). Hubby too, rarely logs in after starting this game 10 years ago, he says it's just a shadow of what it was back in the Vanilla days, and it doesn't interest him. He plays other games now, but still logs in now and again, to see if anything has changed for the better.

[Madmanthief]

You all seem so dissatisfied with the way things are going, maybe it's time for you all to take a break from the game for a little while and go play something else.
I do that quite often these days. Someone always says to speak with your wallet, as that seems to be the only way to get their attention. I don't spend any money on Lotro anymore until some very serious things are corrected. I enjoy adventuring in middle earth, but don't enjoy the toxicity that has cropped up in the last few years.

I'm not trying to start an argument with any of you as of this point, so please don't take the post badly.

There are some decent games out there, go and give them a try. My money is being spent on a game where the store is basically fluff, there are a few xp scrolls and some crafting type things to advance faster, nothing that is game breaking, no p2w items either.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

You all seem so dissatisfied with the way things are going, maybe it's time for you all to take a break from the game for a little while and go play something else.
I do that quite often these days. Someone always says to speak with your wallet, as that seems to be the only way to get their attention. I don't spend any money on Lotro anymore until some very serious things are corrected. I enjoy adventuring in middle earth, but don't enjoy the toxicity that has cropped up in the last few years.

I'm not trying to start an argument with any of you as of this point, so please don't take the post badly.

There are some decent games out there, go and give them a try. My money is being spent on a game where the store is basically fluff, there are a few xp scrolls and some crafting type things to advance faster, nothing that is game breaking, no p2w items either.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

But that's the point - we are. Or at least I am. I log onto lotro once a fortnight at the most just to see who's online, check the mail and to pick up a gold hobbit present.

[Sphenforthewin]

Every tier has a huge drop rate increase, which is why the daily chest locks are being implemented.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Denhith]

You all seem so dissatisfied with the way things are going, maybe it's time for you all to take a break from the game for a little while and go play something else.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

I'm glad your tone has changed.

That said, telling people to go play something else is probably not in the best interest of SSG. However, it may be in the best interest of those who play the game.

[Arnenna]

Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, the clarification is much appreciated. I will, however, feel more confident in it if the patch notes are changed to reflect the clarification.

[Milii]

Black keys will be bound; some kind of loot is becoming account bound rather than toon bound.