Minstrel Feedback Thread

[hanxcve]

Actual heal roation:



Nothing but Raise the spirit and CotC:


My 3 suggestions:
-Don't buff raise the spirit any more to avoid it being the whole rotation
-Put anthem duration back down to 1m 10s
-Make Healer's Strike 10% inc heal buff fellowship wide if you want to make it useful

[BotLike]

Nothing but Raise the spirit and CotC:

I've noticed the same on build #1 ^^

Just curious though , did RtS still have an aoe heal which is not supposed to be there in build #2 ? ^^
Cause if it did , once this is gone and replaced with a HoT , things will be different.

I'd log in and check but BR RIP'ed.

[hanxcve]

I've noticed the same on build #1 ^^

Just curious though , did RtS still have an aoe heal which is not supposed to be there in build #2 ? ^^
Cause if it did , once this is gone and replaced with a HoT , things will be different.

I'd log in and check but BR RIP'ed.

RtS did have the aoe heal... the thing is that the release notes are completely different from what is actually on BR, sadly cant test everything now that BR isn't open over the weekend (????) when most people can finally log on.

[hanxcve]

Minstrel
• Changing Minstrel Anthem default duration to 60s
• Inspiring Cries and Calls cooldown increased to 30s
• Trait "Inspiring Cries and Calls" increases application chance by 10%/20%/30%/40% ranks 2 through 5
• Trait Follow up - Rank 2 induction reduction decreased 20% --> 15%
• Trait Follow up - Effect duration increased from 6s --> 20s
• Minstrel - Imbued LI - Healing Skills Power Cost now increases Fellowship's Heart healing after rank 59



TBH these changes are really stupid.
Decrease the cooldown of Cries and Calls back down to 15s
Decrease follow up duration back down to 6s

People will no longer use coda and follow up will look something like this on mini:

Insta cast 24/7

[Arabani]

What was the point in changing Anthems' duration to 60 seconds? With 5 seconds recast they are always up anyway. It's nothing more then a mere inconvinience. Just make anthems permanent aura-like buffs in that case. Or I have a better suggestion-

1)Bring back old Song stances/auras. Anthem of Prowess, Anthem of Composure and Tale of Tales are the remnants or that system There were 3 different Songs as I remember. Make it that only one Song can be active at a time, unless one is a Yellow Line Minstrel and able to use two and then three Songs/Auras at once.

2)Make the rest of Anthems short time buffs on average cd. For example: Anthem of War- 20 seconds duration on 1 minute cd, Anthem of the 3d Age-10 seconds duration, 30 seconds cd. Can invet more anthems, just the style should be the same-cool down is at least 3 times longer then the duration.

As for Inspiring Cries and Calls, my guess is you are trying to normalise Call of Ioreth reset that way. Just remove that talent complitly, as it's a waste of points for damaging cries and you don't want giving us more Ioreths. If you want Blue Minstrel being able to do some damage (I want it for sure) make Call of Orome and Call of Fate baseline (as they used to be years ago) and move Sharing a Story trait close to the top of Yellow line. May as well add the chance to reset call of Orome in to it.

[Joedangod]

What was the point in changing Anthems' duration to 60 seconds?

It encourages more frequent coda usage.

[jomanjy]

Minstrel
• Changing Minstrel Anthem default duration to 60s
• Inspiring Cries and Calls cooldown increased to 30s
• Trait "Inspiring Cries and Calls" increases application chance by 10%/20%/30%/40% ranks 2 through 5
• Trait Follow up - Rank 2 induction reduction decreased 20% --> 15%
• Trait Follow up - Effect duration increased from 6s --> 20s
• Minstrel - Imbued LI - Healing Skills Power Cost now increases Fellowship's Heart healing after rank 59



TBH these changes are really stupid.
Decrease the cooldown of Cries and Calls back down to 15s
Decrease follow up duration back down to 6s

People will no longer use coda and follow up will look something like this on mini:

Insta cast 24/7

100% agree, i thought the point of the mini nerfs/changes is to not make it 1 skill class but this is just awful...now with 20s duration on follow up you can literally spam BC 24/7 with 0 induction and with the cd increase of inspiring CoC you give minis 0 reason to use coda anymore, please revert those changes.

[siipperi]

15s Cries and calls is stupid. allows permanent immunity to silences in essence. Should be 30s like it was designed to.

[B749]

Just to add my voice to the chorus:

• Keep Inspiring Cries and Calls at 30s CD please! 15s is OP and only necessary for precombat Anthem stacking, which as I understand it is not a game feature you aim to actively support...
• Follow Up changes are horrible. Revert back to 6s duration at most, or limit the amount of times it can stack with itself. Potency needs to be tweaked from that point considering how many buffs the Minstrel can get (we don't want situations where Minstrels can have -100% inductions for most of the fight, this already sometimes happens on live with lucky crit RNG even with only 6s duration).
• While I appreciate the thought of giving us a ILI legacy to increase Fellowship's Heart healing, the skill just needs a base healing value buff at this point. It's absolutely laughably weak and has a 5 minute cooldown... Let's just say the skill potency is nowhere near in proportion to the skill cooldown.

[hanxcve]

15s Cries and calls is stupid. allows permanent immunity to silences in essence. Should be 30s like it was designed to.

Now that minis got a huge outgoing healing nerf, 15s isn't stupid at all.
What about pvp, you'll get 1 coda every 30 seconds which makes it nearly impossible to heal when you're being focused

Just to add my voice to the chorus:

Keep Inspiring Cries and Calls at 30s CD please! 15s is OP and only necessary for precombat Anthem stacking, which as I understand it is not a game feature you aim to actively support...

Anthems don't stack with eachother anymore so useless for pre-buffing

[BotLike]

15s Cries and calls is stupid. allows permanent immunity to silences in essence. Should be 30s like it was designed to.

What ? Patch notes say its increased to 30 sec -_-

I do agree anthem duration needs to go back to live duration.

I disagree with previous posters on many things though.
You still need to use coda for double bolster on the move and inc damage buff - _ -
No one cares if you have no inductions , healing is in general nerfed a LOT.

I like all the changes. Just nerf anthem duration more , make it max 1 minute + with trait and legacy like it is on live , everyone will stack anthems precombat. It's silly.

Also , raise the spirit still does an AOE heal ( the same as chord of salvation ) while the tooltip says HoT. What's the deal with that ?

Anthems don't stack with eachother anymore so useless for pre-buffing

You can stack different anthems ^^

[Norana]

15s Cries and calls is stupid. allows permanent immunity to silences in essence. Should be 30s like it was designed to.

Think you need to learn to read. Its a trait in blue line which was nerfed from 15s to 30s

[NavarreBlood]

Anthem base length at 3 mins was fine. Anthems are a time waste where you aren't healing/dpsing. Alternatively make anthems an aura that toggles on/off. Address the real problem: make all fellowship buffs (anthems) disappear when any fellowship minstrel retraits, and you eliminate minstrel trait swapping issues.

"Follow up" 15 seconds and "inspiring cries and calls" 15 seconds are fine in light of the major heal nerfs which haven't fully hit BR - heal rune on weapon is still active at ~50% of full power.

Make hero's strike a better survival tool: make it ranged 8-10m and not requiring line of sight (so you can use when running away) and stack 3x for 10% incoming heal buff on self only. And eliminate the 5 second cooldown. Alternatively make it a 10% incoming self-only reflect that stacks 3x.

Make the bubbles % based (10-20%).

The change to finesse red line trait (and yellow line tactical mastery) was good. I hope you have made this % based for when cap raises to 120+. Do the same for the "enduring morale" red line trait.

I dislike anthem of war traited only and on 4th tier of red line. This means it is a choice between aow or "of all trades" in yellow line when traiting blue. Move aow down to 2nd level if keeping as trait only. If blue line traits up yellow line then blue line only has 2 anthems - 3rd age and composure.

Yellow line perfect performance should be 5% for each of 3 levels, totaling 15% to be worth anything. This trait is on the 6th tier so should be a good reward for going deep in yellow line.

Change yellow line strike a chord so it doesn't require you to be in melody stance to get the foes debuff. This trait is on the 7th tier of yellow line, and should be a capstone yellow line skill by making this small change.

Shield focus isn't currently worth traiting - giving up 30% run speed for a 5% block chance. Add on 25%, 50% less threat for 2 levels and it might be worth it.

Make the melody of battle (resonance stance echoes of battle) percentage based reflect and parry - like 5% reflect and 5% parry increase. Increase range to 40m.

Some healing skills have a range of 20m, and some are 25m. Increase all healing skills to 30m. At bare minimum all should be increased to 25m. In raid situation where fighting on two fronts it's possible for half the fellowship to not be getting heals due to distance.

Remove the cooldown on inspire fellows.

Yellow line tale of tales aura should be massively buffed.

Eliminate stance swapping cooldowns, and get rid of all stance swapping buffs.

Either increase time of fear on Invocation of Elbereth to 30 seconds to match cooldown, or reduce cooldown to 15 seconds so minstrel can cc one target. This is just going to be one trash mob because bosses are immune to this.

[dselden]

Some healing skills have a range of 20m, and some are 25m. Increase all healing skills to 30m. At bare minimum all should be increased to 25m. In raid situation where fighting on two fronts it's possible for half the fellowship to not be getting heals due to distance.

I'd much prefer keeping the same range, because if you make aoe range 25-30m it completely devalues smart positioning in raids.

[BotLike]

I would like to explain further what will happen if this build goes live in order to assist the devs.

As of beta #3 , anthems have a max duration of 3 mins ( default + legacy + trait ).
Minstrels can have a yellow line spec which they can use to pop all different anthems pre-combat. In some shorter fights those anthems will stay on for the entire duration. Those anthems include the new yellow melody anthem which is amazing btw , anthem of composure , anthem of prowess and anthem of war.
You can pop all of the above with only 1 cry of the chorus out of combat. This means there is no delay in popping them , so you can do this perfectly and take advantage of almost the whole 3 minute duration in combat. Then you can go blue , reset chorus fast with cries and calls ( very easy and reliable now ) , repop the chorus and the remaining anthem of composure and have 5 useful anthems maintained with all the healing bonuses from blue included.

Yellow line automatically turns into a pre-combat buff line and pointless to use as your combat line.
The only things you gain for choosing yellow as your combat line are basically song of aid , which is outdated , the tale buff , which can still be exploited by the you know-how stance bug and maintained in blue line as well and a so-so buff from call of the second age which the minny himself doesn't need anymore.
Some might claim that yellow would still be useful for maintaining anthems in much longer than 3 minutes boss fights , but i honestly don't see that happening.
Healing is nerfed a lot , which is fine , but that kind of forces you to play blue and get all the help you can get.

Also , melody is still USELESS , especially now that the anthems are added by default on the trait trees. The coda buff is weak , the tale is weaker than blue one and the stance buffs are still weaker than their counterparts.

However , if you boost the melody coda slightly ( 10% inc healing from deep yellow traiting doesn't cut it sorry ) the coda cashout will become a far more interesting mechanic , since no matter what your role is , you can choose to swap stances in combat and cashout the coda of your choosing.
For example , thanks to the recent changes , you can now choose to swap to dissonence while healing and pop coda of fury for the extra small but decent outgoing dmg buff for the fellowship. This can be a really interesting mechanic , which was propably the original designer's thought , it just needs some coda of melody love.

Also , along with the yellow tale bug mentioned above , chord of salvation double tap rotation is still there , this is an obvious exploit since it makes zero sense and needs to be fixed cause it gives a huge advantage to people that abuse it..

Can't wait to see how healing in general will play out in raiding. Abyss will be a pain : D

[siipperi]

Now that minis got a huge outgoing healing nerf, 15s isn't stupid at all.
What about pvp, you'll get 1 coda every 30 seconds which makes it nearly impossible to heal when you're being focused


Anthems don't stack with eachother anymore so useless for pre-buffing

Its. I would nerf even more minstrels on move healing capability if it was up to me. Minstrel is way too OP in pvp anyway. No healer should be able to self heal alone vs 6 opponents and stay alive.

Follow up shouldnt even be a thing if we are being honest. Horrible trait from fundamental point of view. If we want proper minstrel gameplay they should try imitade RoI minstrel with mix of new. Remove all aoe bs from rts and cos. Just because they dont have magnitudes right on heals does not mean they should invent idiotic mechanics.

Think you need to learn to read. Its a trait in blue line which was nerfed from 15s to 30s

you think I dont know the class? It might be news to you but for longest time it has been over 15s as a trait, even when it said it was 15s... Tooltip was just bugged and value was old... Now of course in live its fixed since I kept reporting that on 1 month intervals... And it still is stupid on live... 15s cd means pretty much permanent increase to healing and immunity to silences. That is stupid design.

[NavarreBlood]

Increase in minstrel dps is welcome. I just ran three tests with maxed tactical mastery, crit rating at 20% and using all available anthems - was between 15-16k. The 16k dps was using unimbued book for higher aow buff. Meanwhile, the LM next to me is doing 30-33k dps.

The LI + changes don't appear to have gone into effect on extra light. This was using tac dmg 76.8 rune on weapon and 67.2 on book. Once the book rune is taken off, it's basically a wash with the increasing light from the LI.

Looks like overall minstrel base damage needs a large increase, and maybe needs to be about doubled to bring up close to same range as other dps classes.

[elzeqq]

I would like to explain further what will happen if this build goes live in order to assist the devs.

As of beta #3 , anthems have a max duration of 3 mins ( default + legacy + trait ).
Minstrels can have a yellow line spec which they can use to pop all different anthems pre-combat. In some shorter fights those anthems will stay on for the entire duration. Those anthems include the new yellow melody anthem which is amazing btw , anthem of composure , anthem of prowess and anthem of war.
You can pop all of the above with only 1 cry of the chorus out of combat. This means there is no delay in popping them , so you can do this perfectly and take advantage of almost the whole 3 minute duration in combat. Then you can go blue , reset chorus fast with cries and calls ( very easy and reliable now ) , repop the chorus and the remaining anthem of composure and have 5 useful anthems maintained with all the healing bonuses from blue included.

Yellow line automatically turns into a pre-combat buff line and pointless to use as your combat line.
The only things you gain for choosing yellow as your combat line are basically song of aid , which is outdated , the tale buff , which can still be exploited by the you know-how stance bug and maintained in blue line as well and a so-so buff from call of the second age which the minny himself doesn't need anymore.
Some might claim that yellow would still be useful for maintaining anthems in much longer than 3 minutes boss fights , but i honestly don't see that happening.
Healing is nerfed a lot , which is fine , but that kind of forces you to play blue and get all the help you can get.

Also , melody is still USELESS , especially now that the anthems are added by default on the trait trees. The coda buff is weak , the tale is weaker than blue one and the stance buffs are still weaker than their counterparts.

However , if you boost the melody coda slightly ( 10% inc healing from deep yellow traiting doesn't cut it sorry ) the coda cashout will become a far more interesting mechanic , since no matter what your role is , you can choose to swap stances in combat and cashout the coda of your choosing.
For example , thanks to the recent changes , you can now choose to swap to dissonence while healing and pop coda of fury for the extra small but decent outgoing dmg buff for the fellowship. This can be a really interesting mechanic , which was propably the original designer's thought , it just needs some coda of melody love.

Also , along with the yellow tale bug mentioned above , chord of salvation double tap rotation is still there , this is an obvious exploit since it makes zero sense and needs to be fixed cause it gives a huge advantage to people that abuse it..

Can't wait to see how healing in general will play out in raiding. Abyss will be a pain : D

Double tap is not exploit, it's how immediate animations work, it works like this on every class with every immediate skill, for example - burg addle or champ battle frenzy
It's been in the game since 95 ^^

[siipperi]

Increase in minstrel dps is welcome. I just ran three tests with maxed tactical mastery, crit rating at 20% and using all available anthems - was between 15-16k. The 16k dps was using unimbued book for higher aow buff. Meanwhile, the LM next to me is doing 30-33k dps.

The LI + changes don't appear to have gone into effect on extra light. This was using tac dmg 76.8 rune on weapon and 67.2 on book. Once the book rune is taken off, it's basically a wash with the increasing light from the LI.

Looks like overall minstrel base damage needs a large increase, and maybe needs to be about doubled to bring up close to same range as other dps classes.

I was doing 25-26k DPS when I tried few times with one DPS relic on weapon, but I haven't really played DPS on minstrel for over a year now so with few tries I can see it being a bit better. I do agree that it needs buff now that they going insane dps on all classes. Should be about 36-38k around same as where they should aim red guardian (as long as peak DPS would be at 50k). But I do not think allowing such DPS is reasonable for burst class in the first place. It breaks pvp and landscape so much that just makes me sick. Dynamics of class should be changed and stuff like harsh echoes buffed significantly. I don't like initial hits critting over 100k on any class with current morale pools on mobs.

[BotLike]

Double tap is not exploit, it's how immediate animations work, it works like this on every class with every immediate skill, for example - burg addle or champ battle frenzy
It's been in the game since 95 ^^

It's 1000% exploit but since you were bold enough to say it's not , i'll argue this further.

That's not how 'immediate animations work' , chord of salvation has a long animation after activation , which should not be bypassed unless followed by another immediate skill. Immediate skills are the only legit way to bypass animations. In this case , what this exploit does , is allowing a fast skill to bypass the animation.

Since its not an exploit and 'it's how immediate animations work' , why don't you try not traiting chord in blue and see what happens ? ^^

Don't worry , devs most likely won't bother and will defo not ban anyone , even though this will make a significant difference , especially after U22.2 launches.
You can continue abusing this and the bugged tale because this is Lotro ^^

[Joedangod]

Double tap is not exploit, it's how immediate animations work, it works like this on every class with every immediate skill, for example - burg addle or champ battle frenzy
It's been in the game since 95 ^^

The bug isn't the immediate animation, it's the fact that you can cut the chord animation with a fast skill if you double tap it. That mechanism is most definitely a bug.

[Giliodor]

Changing Follow Up was a mistake. Simple fix: prevent it from stacking with itself. Only allow one buff to be present. Then increase its potency to -25% induction reductions. If you don't change it from what it is now, I don't see why you bothered making changes to the class in the first place.

[siipperi]

Changing Follow Up was a mistake. Simple fix: prevent it from stacking with itself. Only allow one buff to be present. Then increase its potency to -25% induction reductions. If you don't change it from what it is now, I don't see why you bothered making changes to the class in the first place.

Just remove the trait. It makes healing what it's not supposed to be. Enforces horrible practices of spam healing target without no reason to do so, just to keep buff up.

[Giliodor]

Just remove the trait. It makes healing what it's not supposed to be. Enforces horrible practices of spam healing target without no reason to do so, just to keep buff up.

I agree, it's a horrible design, and if it were up to me, I would remove it.

[Joedangod]

Just remove the trait. It makes healing what it's not supposed to be. Enforces horrible practices of spam healing target without no reason to do so, just to keep buff up.

I'd say keep follow up exactly how it is on live and instead neuter some of the other induction duration buffs mini has. It's kinda silly to be at a base -55% inductions thanks to the trait/legacy/anthem.