Four Hours Downtime

[istvana]

to partially fix *one* thing?

Given that they have had two days and the list of known issues was rather long, this seems a bit surprising.

[Hurin]

to partially fix *one* thing?

Given that they have had two days and the list of known issues was rather long, this seems a bit surprising.

There are procedures to follow. It doesn't really matter if they're fixing one thing or fifty.

And they probably error on the side of declaring a longer maintenance window so that they won't be blasted should things run long.

But. . . since they're blasted for the length of the window regardless. . . whatever.

--H

[istvana]

Actually it was more that since even the simplest thing takes a long downtime - couldn't they sneak in even *one* of the long list of other known bugs to fix?

[Nymphonic]

Actually it was more that since even the simplest thing takes a long downtime - couldn't they sneak in even *one* of the long list of other known bugs to fix?

One thing I've learned from playing MMOs, is that nothing is easy as it seems. This game is their bread and butter, they are not going to bring the game down for 4 hours without an additional bug fix for the heck of it.

[Arnenna]

I never complain about downtime, and I'm not going to complain that the game is going down this time, purely because it's going down. What is irritating is why.

We had a thread complaining that horses in boxes was a no go (I was also against it), and that was reversed in the same day.
We have raider folk who made complaints that they wanted ash back for their relics and the game is going down a day after update launch to correct it and give them what they asked for.

There were a lot of other things asked for (LI grind to be adjusted for rebuilding, Legacy replacement scrolls for rebuilding), all totally ignored and not even acknowledged.

There is a whole heap of lower level hunters complaining about focus gen and they must wait a week or two and see how it goes.

Yet these decisions were not about raider V casual players at all.

Sorry, but it certainly comes across that way. The same handful of voices shouting the loudest, not just getting exactly what they want, but getting it yesterday, at the cost of the whole playerbase. With the air the way it is today, this was probably not the best move to try and convince your playerbase otherwise.

Wasn't it "balance" we were looking for?

[Hurin]

I never complain about downtime, and i'm not going to complain that the game is going down this time, purely because it's going down. What is irritating is why.

We had a thread complaining that horses in boxes was a no go (I was also against it), and that was reversed in the same day.
We have raider folk who made complaints that they wanted ash back for their relics and the game is going down a day after update launch to correct it and give them what they asked for.

There were a lot of other things asked for (LI grind to be adjusted for rebuilding, Legacy replacement scrolls for rebuilding), all totally ignored and not even acknowledged.

There is a whole heap of lower level hunters complaining about focus gen and they must wait a week or two and see how it goes.

Yet this isn't about raider V casual players at all.

Sorry, but it certainly comes across that way.

"Raider folk". . . "raider V casual". . . really? Based upon a rushed hotfix intended to stop relics from disappearing into oblivion (with the retrieval from oblivion coming later for those who have already been affected). . . and the addressing of a request with perhaps the simplest of all measures possible: Adding an item at an exchange vendor?

. . . people will see red meat for their partisan worldview everywhere, it seems.

--H

[Arnenna]

"Raider folk". . . "raider V casual". . . really? Based upon a rushed hotfix intended to stop relics from disappearing into oblivion (with the retrieval from oblivion coming later for those who have already been affected). . . and the addressing of a request with perhaps the simplest of all measures possible: Adding an item at an exchange vendor?

. . . people will see red meat for their partisan worldview everywhere, it seems.

--H

Retrieval from oblivion is fine, as is the downtime it's the "giving in" part that's irritating and the downtime for that. The raider V casual is about a statement made earlier.

[Hurin]

it's the "giving in" part that's irritating and the downtime for that. The raider V casual is about a statement made earlier.

I admit I don't follow these debates closely anymore. But I would applaud SSG for eventually recognizing that they nerfed some equipment that was hard-earned while adjusting the game, and found an easy way to implement a work-around requiring almost zero effort on anyone's part. "Giving in" can just as readily be interpreted as "seeing reason" or "coming around" . . . unless you have it in for the "folks" to whom they "gave in."

And finally, it's unlikely that the addition of an item to a trade-in vendor increased the downtime. So no need to specify the "downtime for that" as a source of irritation. The game was going to be down anyways for the "relics-no-go-in-standard-wallets" issue.

--H

[istvana]

Downtime isn't an issue. The length of the downtime isn't an issue.

But why rush to partially fix this one issue and ignore all the others - maybe this was one they could fix fast and the others took more testing and work?


But are we expected to believe that changing a +3 to a -3 in the focus required for a melee hunter ability would take more than a few minutes? Just to pick one of many known bugs that affect people other than the level-cap crowd.

[Hurin]

Downtime isn't an issue. The length of the downtime isn't an issue.

But why rush to partially fix this one issue and ignore all the others - maybe this was one they could fix fast and the others took more testing and work?

Because right now people are logging in to find that their hard-earned relics are going *poof* and disappearing. Which is likely very distressing to many. And the longer it is this way, the more people there will be who are distressed, and the more people they will have to retroactively fix going forward. And the more support tickets they will get from people who don't frequent these forums and are freaked out by their relics going *poof*. . . and so on.

But are we expected to believe that changing a +3 to a -3 in the focus required for a melee hunter ability would take more than a few minutes? Just to pick one of many known bugs that affect people other than the level-cap crowd.

Regarding bugs and the "simplicity" of fixing them. . . here you go.

--H

P.S. Also, your original post and this latest one would seem to conflict.

[djheydt]

Regarding bugs and the "simplicity" of fixing them. . . here you go.

Oh, thanks for posting that. I'm not a programmer, but I've been married to one for nearly fifty years, and I comprehend on a gut level that there are always bugs.

[istvana]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds - but the original post wasn't intended to say a 4 hour down time was bad. I don't complain about them taking the time to fix things. It was intended to say that in 4 hours they should be able to address other issues since their patch notes acknowledged the issues - it isn't as if players are complaining and they need to verify that there are bugs. In some cases they even know precisely what caused the bug.

I agree I could have worded it better - apologies for sounding as if downtime after a patch bothers me - I applaud the quick fix - I just wish they fixed *more*.

I also agree that what they are fixing does need to be fixed but with all the complaints that a certain group of "elite players" had excessive influence over the process, and now seeing an emergency fix directed *only* at an issue that affects these players. One ...wonders.

It would have been far better optics for them to fix a few things at the same time that affect other players as well.

[Hurin]

It was intended to say that in 4 hours they should be able to address other issues. . .

Yes. . . but the actual work of fixing a bug doesn't take place during the downtime. It happens in the days/weeks prior. The downtime is for the actual uploading of the new code to the servers, modifications to the database(s), rebooting, etc.

So, like I said, that four hours is pretty much standard whether they've managed to fix one bug, or fifty prior to it.

But, anyways, I appreciate the conciliatory tone in the rest of your post. Truce! (at least for my part!)

--H

[VadulTharys]

Because right now people are logging in to find that their hard-earned relics are going *poof* and disappearing. Which is likely very distressing to many. And the longer it is this way, the more people there will be who are distressed, and the more people they will have to retroactively fix going forward. And the more support tickets they will get from people who don't frequent these forums and are freaked out by their relics going *poof*. . . and so on.


Regarding bugs and the "simplicity" of fixing them. . . here you go.

--H

P.S. Also, your original post and this latest one would seem to conflict.

Want to know what he player base sees? Outside the max lvl, max equipment people, if you are not max they don't care, that is the attitude of EVERYONE not one or two but it is non stop on world chat, it is non stop in the forums, the max lvl max gear people whine and they screw everyone else over to bend over for them.

That is the perception, I am not saying it is true, yes balancing hunters was worthwhile, making it a joke class as a starter toon is not. The one thing you will see over and over and over in the forums is people who have max gear/lvl telling the lvl 20s they are stupid and don't know how to play. Really its nice you have 80 or so trait points to spend balancing the hunter so you are still effective, but what about someone at lvl 20 with 10? dropping 6 into another line keeping you from getting a decent build that will allow you to do anything but sit and wait for a group to take pity on you? Gone is soloing basic quests for hunters, gone is the fun. That is an issue that has killed more MMOs than anything else, focusing on the max lvl players while hosing over the low ones. The low ones are new players the one who are set to spend all that money on expansions, upgrades ect...you max level people already have, so its a money losing proposition to focus on the max levels while ignoring the issues facing new players.

I will give credit to SSG they have gone out of their way to let people know they are listening and working to fix the issues identified. But right now to the vast majority of players it really looks like they are catering to the wrong group.

[Maryam]

That is the perception, I am not saying it is true, yes balancing hunters was worthwhile, making it a joke class as a starter toon is not. The one thing you will see over and over and over in the forums is people who have max gear/lvl telling the lvl 20s they are stupid and don't know how to play. Really its nice you have 80 or so trait points to spend balancing the hunter so you are still effective, but what about someone at lvl 20 with 10? dropping 6 into another line keeping you from getting a decent build that will allow you to do anything but sit and wait for a group to take pity on you? Gone is soloing basic quests for hunters, gone is the fun. That is an issue that has killed more MMOs than anything else, focusing on the max lvl players while hosing over the low ones. The low ones are new players the one who are set to spend all that money on expansions, upgrades ect...you max level people already have, so its a money losing proposition to focus on the max levels while ignoring the issues facing new players.

New players... I'm afraid you have it reversed, in a game that isn't even advertised anymore seemingly, it is a money losing proposition to ignore thousands to cater to all ten, twenty, or perhaps even fifty of you, on the chance a few of you might spend some actual money.

[VadulTharys]

New players... I'm afraid you have it reversed, in a game that isn't even advertised anymore seemingly, it is a money losing proposition to ignore thousands to cater to all ten, twenty, or perhaps even fifty of you, on the chance a few of you might spend some actual money.

The game may not be advertised but 12 different YT gaming channels just this month have highlighted it, all gave it glowing reviews. This week the kinship I am a member of has recruited 40 new players, as in brand new to the game. All of them had seen something about it mentioned on a YT video. Every site that has anything to do with LOTR or Tolkien mention this game and give it glowing reviews for its adherence to lore, to its amazing world full of little gems, all the things players love in a game.

The thousands are not the maxed players it is the new ones, the game is growing and has for the last year so again catering to max lvls who many already have max gear is not a money making deal. Because once maxed, how much are you going to spend a month? But for new players who come in and fall in love. Well there are expansions, quest packs, cosmetics ect. That is good money and it is not coming from maxed players but from new ones....hundreds of them. But if you make their starting experience miserable guess what they move on quick there are a lot of other MMOs out there that do care about new players and do help them. SSG has since taking over been amazing at this.

this update did some amazing things, the graphics, the landscape smoothing, the improved graphics, the graphics extensions, all amazing, much of the balancing on other classes was long over due and from everyone I have talked too they are very pleased. Then we come to hunter, if you are not going to dedicate 6-8 hours a day, drop $100 plus a month on your toon it is weak, and at starting levels a joke.

Again perceptions are critical, when people like yourself who think of themselves as the only ones who matter because (list of reasons all boil down to I am special!!!) you are not and neither am I. What is special is the money, do you do something that will turn new players away and watch your player base slowly wither and die or do you do things that will continue to help your player base grow? The smart company goes for growth, even if it means upsetting a spoiled elite group of customers, what they spend will never outweigh the potential of what the new players who need to buy all the expansions, quest packs ect will spend.

[istvana]

What world do you live in Maryam? New players are constantly showing up in world chat and in kins.


And a lot of not-so-new players prefer bumming around and enjoying the world to leveling, and play many classes to enjoy the variety. So none of them is played with the expertise and dedication you and your friends doubtlessly have.



This just in - LOTRO is a story-driven game that appeals more to casuals than raiders. Eliminate the former and when the game dies the raiders will have to go elsewhere too. Some already have for that matter.



Its easy to say "my kin is leaving" to put pressure on - doesn't usually work and is rarely believed. But yes people are leaving I've seen that myself since Monday.

[Nymphonic]

Regarding bugs and the "simplicity" of fixing them. . . here you go.

--H
.

This also applies to my job in maintenance. I always get the "I don't understand why you don't do so and so" line from the worker bees.

[BigLotroFan]

Only 4hrs? Hah. In my state we can pay tolls using a transponder (I guess most do now). You can replenish funds in your account so they are used to pay the high way tolls. Well I just went to the website and it is down for maintenance....and is expected to return NEXT WEEK. Like seriously?

[Hurin]

*carpenters and engineers are desperately trying to repair a gaping hole in the hull as the sea rushes in, flooding the luggage compartments*

Angry mob of passengers: "Do you realize that the soda machine is broken?"

--H

[Macdui]

Yeah the return of ash for un-useable relics was mentioned along with those who bought them on the AH on BR forums, yet it's the raider that gets their wish. But still those who lost out still no fix, no mention of the barter deed requirements. Seems like it's someone totally out of the loop is making it happen.

What I can't fathom is that some people at cap still have not purchased the Premium Wallet before now. It's the single most necessary thing after the riding skill purchase (if you needed to). You'll have spent way more on storage than it's cost.


There's just no accounting for some people.

Mac

[Cordovan]

We definitely Scotty'd today's downtime.

[Yarbro]

New players... I'm afraid you have it reversed, in a game that isn't even advertised anymore seemingly, it is a money losing proposition to ignore thousands to cater to all ten, twenty, or perhaps even fifty of you, on the chance a few of you might spend some actual money.

If you dont get new blood, you die, simple as that; if SSG only cater for end game, there will be no new blood, and eventually the games player base will become too small to sustain.

[Lord.Funk]

We definitely Scotty'd today's downtime.

I see what You did there.

Live long and prosper !!!

[Macdui]

If you dont get new blood, you die, simple as that; if SSG only cater for end game, there will be no new blood, and eventually the games player base will become too small to sustain.

Yup that's the model Turbine worked on. Forget loyal customers, they can be replaced. Even made is super easy to play most of it solo. A lot of us old folk would rather there had been more retention so our old kin lists had active players in the ranks.



Yes it was a quick turn around hotfix. To add a barter for a load of raiders who are likely ash capped anyway.

Mac